Lushen Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, ping said: I'm not saying he is definitely hired by the GOP. I am saying that it is a possibility. That's the spirit! I don't see anything wrong with this, maybe it's true. Doesn't hurt my feelings. Many people say he was diagnosed as a Psycopath. I've seen experts say that you can do so and I've seen experts say you cannot. That being said, the FBI 'diagnosed' him as Psychopathic. Whether they have the authority or expertise to do so is irrelevant to the validity of what I said because they did. I just tend to believe the FBI over some random guy on the internet. Spoiler Edited October 10, 2017 by Lushen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 forensic analysis is not a diagnosis. i'm sure you quickly looked up the wikipedia article and read the first three paragraphs and concluded that 1 hour ago, Lushen said: Many people say he was diagnosed as a Psycopath. I've seen experts say that you can do so and I've seen experts say you cannot. but psychopathy hasn't been accepted as a formal diagnosis for a long time. it's far from the point, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lushen Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 17 minutes ago, fartboi said: forensic analysis is not a diagnosis. i'm sure you quickly looked up the wikipedia article and read the first three paragraphs and concluded that Actually it came from this ( under CAUTION ) Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lushen said: That's the spirit! I don't see anything wrong with this, maybe it's true. Doesn't hurt my feelings. nobody cares about offending you, they're saying that it's total bullshit and should not be declared as fact or speculation 2 hours ago, Lushen said: I just tend to believe the FBI over some random guy on the internet. this isn't right because you said that the FBI had no reason to investigate trump and russia... so are you, "random guy on the internet," somehow better than the FBI there but not here? you're extremely selective about your sources, and instead of arguing against methodology you argue the messenger is shit... fyi, diagnosed with psychopathy? describe to me or find me a source about diagnosing with psychopathy -- because in 1969 it was likely we didn't know nearly as much about personality disorders or mental illness as we do now. especially since it has been standard that psychopathy is not diagnosable, and there is currently an absence of proof for it being hereditary. your basis is lacking for "diagnosing" the shooter as a psychopath. Edited October 10, 2017 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 8 hours ago, Lushen said: That's the spirit! I don't see anything wrong with this, maybe it's true. Doesn't hurt my feelings. Way to miss the point, dude. This isn't about your argument being offensive or hurtful, it's about your argument being dumb as bricks. There's no definite proof that there isn't a 9th planet in the solar system that consists of 100% pure gold. Does that mean we have to seriously discuss that possibility? (hint: It doesn't) And it's just as pointless to just speculate if the shooter was crazy/a nazi/a commie/a christian fundie/a muslim fundie/a catalonian seperatist/a spanish loyalist/a 2nd amendment guy/trying to show that gun control is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoblongoo Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) …so here’s where I think the conversation on mental illness is an important one. Because whatever this guy’s state of mind or mental condition is—we’ve seen this fact pattern before. If the shooter had an undiagnosed mental illness then that means his mental illness was precisely that—undiagnosed, unidentified, and unaddressed—as he was allowed to purchase firearm after firearm after firearm and accumulate an arsenal without anyone being alerted that they were arming a lunatic. I’ve seen some of the transcripts now of the shooter being deposed by attorneys, in a lawsuit he filed several years back against the casino. In this deposition he displays delusions of grandeur and anti-social behaviors that probably would have been picked up in a mental health screening, if he had been required to have such a screening before purchasing a gun. …we don’t do that in America… Now I’m looking at the gun laws of a country like Norway. Norway treats guns the way America treats cars: you need license and registration. You have broad legal authority to carry and use firearms if you are lawfully licensed and your firearm is registered. But if you are unable to produce a valid license—if you could not pass the application process, or if your license was suspended for unlawful use. Well then you cannot even purchase a firearm, anyone you try to purchase from knows that they’ll be putting their own license at risk if they help you circumvent the law, AND your attempt at an unlawful purchase gets flagged by the government + triggers a preemptive response to a potential shooting event from law enforcement. …so they didn’t outright ban firearms. They have a strong hunter culture and they respect the rights of their citizens to arm themselves, not unlike the United States. What they did was implement a system of controls to limit socially harmful use, and identify persons likely to use guns in such a manner + keep guns away from them. A system like that is what is needed in the United States. An outright gun ban would not work in this country and would cause more problems than it fixes. But we can get smarter about how we regulate firearms. We can have licensing, mandatory testing for license applicants, and bans on issuing a license to persons found mentally unfit to own and operate a firearm. (again—we do it for cars) ------- Suppose we had such a system in place prior to this latest shooting. -The shooter goes to buy his guns. He can’t, if he’s unlicensed. -The shooter attempts to get a license. As part of the process, he is subjected to mental health screening. -The shooter behaves the way he behaved in his deposition; going on about how he’s “the world’s greatest” and ordinary people can’t even comprehend the level on which he operates. -The shooter is [flagged] as a likely sociopath. Maybe that’s a hard stop. Maybe the screeners don’t pick up on anything. Maybe they do, but the shooter circumvents the gun laws and gets his arsenal illegally. At the very least that’s an extra hurdle he has to overcome before carrying out the attack. That’s an extra hurdle other shooters have to overcome to carry out their attacks. And that’s going to greatly reduce the number of attacks overall. …because even if some particularly motivated shooters find ways to circumvent the system, many more are simply committing crimes of opportunity. They are not sophisticated criminals. They are not particularly resourceful or intelligent. And if the immediate opportunity to commit a mass shooting isn’t right in front of them with readily accessible assault rifles from a lawful vendor, they will abandon the endeavor due to the inordinate amount of effort it will take to bring their schemes to fruition via an alternative course of conduct. And that’s something that I find gets lost when we throw around the talking point well if you take away guns, then only criminals will have guns. The sophisticated, meticulously calculating sociopaths with well-laid plans to circumvent law enforcement are rarities. I work with them. Most criminals are DUMB. Edited October 10, 2017 by Shoblongoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 17 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said: …because even if some particularly motivated shooters find ways to circumvent the system, many more are simply committing crimes of opportunity. Exactly. It's just so easy to obtain a gun in the U.S. And this is the same reason why we would see suicides drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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