Florete Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 FE is not niche, not anymore. It's not a mainstream hit like Mario and Pokemon, but it is not niche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrimsonflash Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 5 hours ago, Cysx said: But Heroes is a massive success for a Fire Emblem mobile app, so the different statuses are already accounted for. Would you have guessed it'd beat Super Mario run in profit, even with its more effective business model? I feel none of us would have. And for some reason, it more often than not gets ignored in arguments about Fire Emblem's weight as a series in favor of Awakening and Fates, even though at this point, many more people discovered the series through Heroes than any other past release, and more do every passing day. For a while it seems like it's been one of Nintendo's biggest money making machines, and that's a pretty big deal. Sure, whales are a thing, but take a look at any voting gauntlet, and you'll see that a lot of people play this game. This wasn't about Warrior's sales per se, though it is true that one can only wonder why pretty much none of this success(I wasn't expecting most, but, not even a little?) translates to game sales. But no, I just don't understand why people act like Heroes is not a thing. it doesn't matter if a lot of people play the game, super mario run was considered overpriced by most people, to get the full experience with fire emblem heroes you don't need to spend a penny, super mario run had it so that you downloaded a demo and then bought the full game most people were either satisfied with just the demo or didn't see the full game as reasonably priced enough to justify the purchase, when you download heroes you get everything the game has to offer and you are never required to spend money. the reason why people tend to ignore heroes is because it is unfair to compare a FtP game to a full release purely on account of the fact that they are much easier to get into for a common consumer, you can have millions of accounts but by the fourth week half of them will be dead, by its very nature FEH will be significantly more accessible for the common consumer because it's cheap and requires no effort to get into, FEW on the other hand costs money and requires prior knowledge to be able to understand if this game is even worth getting. the only way for FEW to reach the same 'success' as heroes is if a bunch of people bought over 100 copies each to buff the numbers, otherwise, of course FEW isn't going to do as well as heroes it has a perfect combination of instal base and cost to make it have a good sized player base regardless of how anyone feels about it's quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guedesbrawl Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 not to mention you need a switch, which you might not even have, The chances of you not having a device to play heroes are much, much lower. It's just not comparable. As most things between games are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wissenschaft Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Florete said: FE is not niche, not anymore. It's not a mainstream hit like Mario and Pokemon, but it is not niche. I'll believe that when remakes like Shadows of Valentia earn big sells (Zelda's remakes on the 3DS have done so). The only things big right now are awakening, fates, and heroes. Lets hope the switch FE game is a big hit as well. Given how well the switch is selling, I hope so. Edited October 12, 2017 by wissenschaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWill Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 07/10/2017 at 4:52 AM, Noir said: I think it's so funny that people actually think it's due to the roster. The vocal minority make up such a ridiculously small amount of sales. Word of mouth (what you're labelling as vocal minority) has absolutely plastered games in the past. Let's just be glad FE Warriors sold well enough compared to stuff like Marvel vs. Capcom and other Warrior games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cysx Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 10 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said: it doesn't matter if a lot of people play the game, super mario run was considered overpriced by most people, to get the full experience with fire emblem heroes you don't need to spend a penny, super mario run had it so that you downloaded a demo and then bought the full game most people were either satisfied with just the demo or didn't see the full game as reasonably priced enough to justify the purchase, when you download heroes you get everything the game has to offer and you are never required to spend money. the reason why people tend to ignore heroes is because it is unfair to compare a FtP game to a full release purely on account of the fact that they are much easier to get into for a common consumer, you can have millions of accounts but by the fourth week half of them will be dead, by its very nature FEH will be significantly more accessible for the common consumer because it's cheap and requires no effort to get into, FEW on the other hand costs money and requires prior knowledge to be able to understand if this game is even worth getting. the only way for FEW to reach the same 'success' as heroes is if a bunch of people bought over 100 copies each to buff the numbers, otherwise, of course FEW isn't going to do as well as heroes it has a perfect combination of instal base and cost to make it have a good sized player base regardless of how anyone feels about it's quality. I think there should be a major distinction between admitting that it's hard to gauge how much heroes affected the franchise, and straight up ignoring its existence. Going from "it's different" to "it's irrelevant" makes no sense. I am also aware of the differences, you really don't need to explain. Though you are incorrect, since Heroes is highly character centered, the game barely gives anything to a free beginner. You have to invest time or money to get results. People are just much more open to investing time than money in general, which is why the F2P business model works as well as it does I would assume. But there is no possible denying that Heroes is a pay2win game, or rather, pay2excel, if you will. Again I wasn't saying that FEW should have had nearly the same success, since as yourself and a few others said, they're different products. But they're under the same brand nevertheless, so they do affect one another. 9 hours ago, guedesbrawl said: not to mention you need a switch, which you might not even have, The chances of you not having a device to play heroes are much, much lower. It's just not comparable. As most things between games are. A good third of its sales was on new 3DS, but disregarding that... of course it's comparable. Just not 1-1, and most of us wouldn't know where to start; but that's no excuse to ignore it entirely. It's still a Fire Emblem video game, if anything, it's closer to a classic game's case than Warriors is in spite of its business model. 8 hours ago, wissenschaft said: I'll believe that when remakes like Shadows of Valentia earn big sells (Zelda's remakes on the 3DS have done so). The only things big right now are awakening, fates, and heroes. Lets hope the switch FE game is a big hit as well. Given how well the switch is selling, I hope so. If I had to come up with a reason as to why that didn't happen, well Gaiden is easily the least popular of the franchise(this is especially relevant when comparing it with Shadow dragon and New mystery, very few people ever asked for a Gaiden remake), reviews weren't stellar, in comparison with Awakening and Fates it wasn't presented as a "big deal" by Nintendo(we learnt of its existence two months before release and it was very much advertised as a remake rather than a new entry), so on and so forth. I agree that FE Switch, if properly (over)advertised, will give us a lot of answers. An interesting thing to think of is, does Heroes actually hurt sales short term, because people already get their Fire Emblem fill through it? That's something to consider as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wissenschaft Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Cysx said: An interesting thing to think of is, does Heroes actually hurt sales short term, because people already get their Fire Emblem fill through it? That's something to consider as well. I don't really think so since heroes combat in no way matches the experience of a proper FE game. Personally, I don't like the grindy nature of mobile games but hey they sure are popular. But people who casually play mobile games aren't likely to buy console games anyway so I don't think theres anything to worry about. The bigger issue is will the new fans gained with the 3DS games (for many players these are their first FE games) transition to the switch. And given how well the Switch is selling even with the limited amount of games out for it so far, I'd say theres reason to be hopeful. Edited October 13, 2017 by wissenschaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cysx Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, wissenschaft said: I don't really think so since heroes combat in no way matches the experience of a proper FE game. Personally, I don't like the grindy nature of mobile games but hey they sure are popular. But people who casually play mobile games aren't likely to buy console games anyway so I don't think theres anything to worry about. The bigger issue is will the new fans gained with the 3DS games (for many players these are their first FE games) transition to the switch. And given how well the Switch is selling even with the limited amount of games out for it so far, I'd say theres reason to be hopeful. I mean, it's tactical turn-based and grid-based gameplay with many rpg elements, where unit survival is paramount and where skills and character/team building play a huge role. Obviously there are key differences as well, but it does scartch that itch, at least considerably more so than Warriors does. Yet we do act like it's the opposite I feel. That's indeed a question mark as well. A lot didn't buy Echoes it seems, and Fates' reception is in part negative among the Awakening fanbase. Basically you could say we have three main Fire Emblem audiences at this point, and how volatile each of these group is is proportional to how many people are in it, with core fans on one side, Heroes player on the other, and newer 3ds fans which have not yet transitioned to core in the middle. That's how I see it anyway. Edited October 13, 2017 by Cysx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 10:57 PM, Folt said: Got this from GameFAQs: Koei Tecmo is expecting increased profits this year due to excellent sales of Nioh DLC and Fire Emblem Warriors. That should bring things into perspective. I should note the GFAQs user posted a pdf dokument written in Japanese which is what's used as the proof, but I can't read Japanese so I'd appreciate it if someone who does could read it and confirm: https://www.koeitecmo.co.jp/ir/docs/ird6_20171010.pdf That sounds about right. However, I did a really quick skim, not a thorough reading. It's not exactly easy reading, and I'll definitely need a dictionary to understand what it says. Thanks for the link, though~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, wissenschaft said: I'll believe that when remakes like Shadows of Valentia earn big sells (Zelda's remakes on the 3DS have done so). The only things big right now are awakening, fates, and heroes. Lets hope the switch FE game is a big hit as well. Given how well the switch is selling, I hope so. FE =/= LoZ. Of course remakes from one of the most esteemed video game series out there would make bank. Nintendo themselves said SoV's sales were "satisfactory" in their financial reports; it sold as much as they anticipated. Not as much as Awakening and Fates, but nowhere close to being a failure. Edited October 13, 2017 by The DanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troykv Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 On 12/10/2017 at 6:16 PM, wissenschaft said: I'll believe that when remakes like Shadows of Valentia earn big sells (Zelda's remakes on the 3DS have done so). The only things big right now are awakening, fates, and heroes. Lets hope the switch FE game is a big hit as well. Given how well the switch is selling, I hope so. I don't think that is a fair comparison... Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are sacred cows that are part of the pop culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wissenschaft Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) Oh don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Echoes was a failure. Rather, I'm saying that Nintendo keeps things in perspective. Hence, Echos still sold within expectations and the same seems to be true for FE warriors. A niche franchise getting a spin-off game is not something you expect high sales from. I imagine part of how FE warriors got approved is the low cost of production. My point being is that while FE warriors sells might look weak, they could be strong in Nintendo's eyes if they had low expectations for the game in the first place. Edited October 14, 2017 by wissenschaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 On 10/12/2017 at 3:57 AM, Folt said: Got this from GameFAQs: Koei Tecmo is expecting increased profits this year due to excellent sales of Nioh DLC and Fire Emblem Warriors. That should bring things into perspective. I should note the GFAQs user posted a pdf dokument written in Japanese which is what's used as the proof, but I can't read Japanese so I'd appreciate it if someone who does could read it and confirm: https://www.koeitecmo.co.jp/ir/docs/ird6_20171010.pdf That reminds me, I need to get around to the Nioh DLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucario666 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I bet a good chunk of those numbers came from sales outside of Japan (I.E. imports) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 11 hours ago, FuckThisPizza said: I bet a good chunk of those numbers came from sales outside of Japan (I.E. imports) I doubt that besides myself, I don't know many who imported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folt Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Well, Fire Emblem Warriors is now only behind Super Mario Odyssey on the Amazon Hot New Releases list (AKA nr. 2) so I guess it could be doing rather well? http://serenesforest.net/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=19007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaia093 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) Anyone who thinks that selling above 130k on its first week in Japan is a failure should probably look at weekly JP charts more often. The videogame market there isn't exactly booming and the average sales are far, far lower than 130k, be it big name games or niche franchises. The exceptions are IPs like Pokemon, Splatoon, Monster Hunter, Mario, Dragon Quest, Yokai Watch and such, which are monster sellers, but for everything else, getting to 130k is actually a pretty damn good deal. I don't find it fair to pin SoV's sales up against Awakening or Fates', nor do I think it makes sense. If not even Nintendo does, why would we? Edited October 19, 2017 by Gaia093 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Gaia093 said: I don't find it fair to pin SoV's sales up against Awakening or Fates', nor do I think it makes sense. If not even Nintendo does, why would we? "'Cause they're lying and muh martyr syndrome!" That's pretty much how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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