Sniper Silas, Hero Odin, Vanguard Xander

[starburst]

I am at Chapter 27 of Conquest Hard Classic and I would like to share some thoughts about it later this week, once I finally beat it. In the meantime, I am planning my next campaign and would like some feedback from you, guys.

· Conquest Hard Classic.
· DLC classes are allowed but the corresponding map must be beaten to earn each scroll used.
· No Experience, Weapon or Gold DLC maps.
· I focus on 14 characters during the whole campaign, and by the end I add Izana and another staff user to fulfil the last two spots.

So far, this is the party which I am planning:

1. Female Corrin: Nohr Noble with +Mag -Lck and Mercenary talent.
2. Odin: Dread Fighter right upon recruitment » Hero through a Partner Seal with Corrin.
3. Ophelia (recruited before Chapter 10): Dark Mage » Nohr Noble (she would use benched Kana's Dragonstone.)

4. Silas: Cavalier » Archer through a Partner Seal with Mozu before Chapter 10 » Sniper.
5. Mozu (recruited before Chapter 8): Archer » Sniper.
6. Sophie (recruited before Chapter 10): Great Lord right away until level 25 » ???

7. Elise: Strategist (maybe some level-ups as Maid.)
8. Effie: Great Knight (maybe one level-up as General, for Wary Fighter.)
9. Anna (recruited before Chapter 10): Witch right away.
10. Azura: Singer.

11. Camilla: Malig Knight until L5 » Wyvern Lord.
12. Xander: Paladin until L5 » Vanguard.

13. Benny ???
14. Strategist Leo ???
15. Keaton ???

16. Izana: Rally Magic + Rally Luck is just broken if Ophelia or Odin are around.

[starburst]

Now come the questions:

- Is Hero Odin a decent choice for this party?
After 15-20 levels as a Dread Fighter, he will already have weapon proficiency and I would like to believe that his stats will be more than decent. As a Hero, he would get more balanced stats and useful skills, at the cost of a more useful 1-2 range attack (hidden weapons.)
I am a bit worried about his Defence growths as a Dread Fighter (45 %.) Then again, on my last campaign, my level 19 Sorcerer Odin has more defence (27) than L17 Vanguard Corrin (25), L17 Great Knight Silas (26), L16 GK Sophie (26) and just one point less than L18 Wyvern Lord Camilla (28.)
Is Berserker more fun?

- I will not use Ophelia as a hybrid, but a Dragonstone plus better defensive growths as a Nohr Noble might allow her to take one or two hits and play a similar role to Sorcerer Odin. She will not be a Nosferatu Tank, but as long as she survives a moderate enemy phase, I am fine. Is this feasible?

- If one Sniper is awesome, two are stellar, right? Even if Sniper Silas were just 70 % as useful as Sniper Mozu, that guarantees great part of the turn.
As always, Silas will not be the fastest, but he should still be a wall. What are your experiences with Sniper Silas?

- Which should be Sophie's final class?
Paladin, Hero and Master of Arms have basically the same growths, thus the transition will be smooth into any of them. And even though Aptitude does wonders, none of this classes gives her more than 40 % growth in Defence, which may be troublesome for a front liner. Great Knight addresses this issue, but I would like to try a different class.

- Does Sol has priority over Luna? If this is the case, I do not think that it is worth re-classing Sophie into a Great Knight just for Luna, because Sol activation would "cancel" Luna's. And Aether will be there and has priority over both of them no matter what.

- Would Wyvern Lord Xander be more useful for this party?
On my current campaign, Vanguard Corrin (+Spd -Mag) destroys everything and, in most cases, Corrin is a better unit than Lodestar Xander. I wanted to try this class once again, and Xander seems like a good candidate, but I am concerned about his Skill growths.
Xander will always be a wall, thus it is more a synergic issue than about Xander himself.

- Which units do you suggest for spots 13, 14 and 15?
In my opinion, the party needs more "walls", and probably more movement and more staff users, thus I thought about Benny, Keaton and Strategist Leo. (Vanguard Benny might be an alternative to Vanguard Xander.)

The only two men deployed in the early chapters are taken (Silas and Odin), but I guess that Percy or Nina might be available more or less soon if their parents are used as Effie's backpack. I have never "unlocked" children not named 'Ophelia' or 'Sophie', though.

If Leo is not a Strategist, I would simply ignore him this time. I like the character, but, in my experience, Sorcerer Odin, Sorcerer Ophelia and Strategist Elise are always better than Dark Knight or Dark Flyer Leo as spell casters. Even Adventurer Anna is better than Leo at facing low-Resistance or high-Magic enemies. I have not found his niche and do not know how to use him.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read these questions.

Edited October 10, 2017 by starburst

[SoulWeaver]

2 hours ago, starburst said:

- I will not use Ophelia as a hybrid, but a Dragonstone plus better defensive growths as a Nohr Noble might allow her to take one or two hits and play a similar role to Sorcerer Odin. She will not be a Nosferatu Tank, but as long as she survives a moderate enemy phase, I am fine. Is this feasible?

As someone who's messed around with Nohr Noble Ophelia, I've liked her with Dragonstones and her DEF is fair, though I don't know if it's her best option. I would say feasible, yes so long as you don't get RNG screwed unless you can afford to drop Eternal Seals on her. It's possible someone with more experience using Ophelia might have a better opinion, though, as I don't use her too often.

[Shadow Mir]

I can't tell if you're asking us or if those questions are stuff you'd expect to be asked... so I might not be any help.

[starburst]

9 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

As someone who's messed around with Nohr Noble Ophelia, I've liked her with Dragonstones and her DEF is fair, though I don't know if it's her best option. I would say feasible, yes so long as you don't get RNG screwed unless you can afford to drop Eternal Seals on her. It's possible someone with more experience using Ophelia might have a better opinion, though, as I don't use her too often.

Thanks for you input. I have only used Ophelia as a Sorcerer and thus am not sure if her defence as a Nohr Noble would be enough to sustain a couple of hits. As Ophelia and Witch Anna would be the main spell casters and have poor defence (and that of Strategist Elise is even worse), I wanted to have a somewhat 'bulkier' magic user, so that I have more positioning options during player phase.
I will try it and hope that RNG winks at her.

 

8 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I can't tell if you're asking us or if those questions are stuff you'd expect to be asked... so I might not be any help.

I am sorry if my questions were vague. Conquest is my first Fire Emblem game, and no matter how many threads I read (here and in other forums), some answers are simply hard to come by. One must play, I guess.

In particular, I have never used Keaton for more than a couple chapters. His lack of a 1-2 range attack forces me to position him in the front line, but, in my experience, he was not bulky enough. And I have always thought that Beaststones are classified as Red Weapons within the Weapon Triangle, giving him a disadvantage against Ninjas and lances.
All in all, I may simply not know how to use him.

Thanks for reading.

[Shadow Mir]

4 minutes ago, starburst said:

I am sorry if my questions were vague. Conquest is my first Fire Emblem game, and no matter how many threads I read (here and in other forums), some answers are simply hard to come by. One must play, I guess.

In particular, I have never used Keaton for more than a couple chapters. His lack of a 1-2 range attack forces me to position him in the front line, but, in my experience, he was not bulky enough. And I have always thought that Beaststones are classified as Red Weapons within the Weapon Triangle, giving him a disadvantage against Ninjas and lances.
All in all, I may simply not know how to use him.

Thanks for reading.

I think it was the wording that tripped me up. Anyway...

13 hours ago, starburst said:

Now come the questions:

- Is Hero Odin a decent choice for this party?
After 15-20 levels as a Dread Fighter, he will already have weapon proficiency and I would like to believe that his stats will be more than decent. As a Hero, he would get more balanced stats and useful skills, at the cost of a more useful 1-2 range attack (hidden weapons.)
I am a bit worried about his Defence growths as a Dread Fighter (45 %.) Then again, on my last campaign, my level 19 Sorcerer Odin has more defence (27) than L17 Vanguard Corrin (25), L17 Great Knight Silas (26), L16 GK Sophie (26) and just one point less than L18 Wyvern Lord Camilla (28.)
Is Berserker more fun?

- I will not use Ophelia as a hybrid, but a Dragonstone plus better defensive growths as a Nohr Noble might allow her to take one or two hits and play a similar role to Sorcerer Odin. She will not be a Nosferatu Tank, but as long as she survives a moderate enemy phase, I am fine. Is this feasible?

- If one Sniper is awesome, two are stellar, right? Even if Sniper Silas were just 70 % as useful as Sniper Mozu, that guarantees great part of the turn.
As always, Silas will not be the fastest, but he should still be a wall. What are your experiences with Sniper Silas?

- Which should be Sophie's final class?
Paladin, Hero and Master of Arms have basically the same growths, thus the transition will be smooth into any of them. And even though Aptitude does wonders, none of this classes gives her more than 40 % growth in Defence, which may be troublesome for a front liner. Great Knight addresses this issue, but I would like to try a different class.

- Does Sol has priority over Luna? If this is the case, I do not think that it is worth re-classing Sophie into a Great Knight just for Luna, because Sol activation would "cancel" Luna's. And Aether will be there and has priority over both of them no matter what.

- Would Wyvern Lord Xander be more useful for this party?
On my current campaign, Vanguard Corrin (+Spd -Mag) destroys everything and, in most cases, Corrin is a better unit than Lodestar Xander. I wanted to try this class once again, and Xander seems like a good candidate, but I am concerned about his Skill growths.
Xander will always be a wall, thus it is more a synergic issue than about Xander himself.

- Which units do you suggest for spots 13, 14 and 15?
In my opinion, the party needs more "walls", and probably more movement and more staff users, thus I thought about Benny, Keaton and Strategist Leo. (Vanguard Benny might be an alternative to Vanguard Xander.)

The only two men deployed in the early chapters are taken (Silas and Odin), but I guess that Percy or Nina might be available more or less soon if their parents are used as Effie's backpack. I have never "unlocked" children not named 'Ophelia' or 'Sophie', though.

If Leo is not a Strategist, I would simply ignore him this time. I like the character, but, in my experience, Sorcerer Odin, Sorcerer Ophelia and Strategist Elise are always better than Dark Knight or Dark Flyer Leo as spell casters. Even Adventurer Anna is better than Leo at facing low-Resistance or high-Magic enemies. I have not found his niche and do not know how to use him.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read these questions.

As for Hero Odin, it could work, though I disagree on it having useful skills since Good Fortune and Sol are both pretty lackluster imho. Which leaves Strong Riposte as the only really useful skill (that you'd have access to for more than like 3 chapters at most, that is).

I wouldn't call Berserker more fun, or any fun at all for that matter - what's so fun about constantly risking games???

I'd say Nohr Noble Ophelia may be feasible.

Outside of my first Birthright run, I never used Silas as a long-term unit, so I can't answer that.

I personally prefer Paladin for Sophie.

If Awakening is anything to go by, I assume it does. Not that Sol is worth a reclass to get...

I would say no on Wyvern Lord Xander - losing Siegfried is enough to make it a losing trade imho.

A lot of people insist that Benny needs Wary Fighter, so General for him.

As for Keaton, I often find myself using the Beastrune (this goes for beast units in general, actually).

I'm not seeing what Strategist does for Leo, frankly...

[SoulWeaver]

1 hour ago, starburst said:

Thanks for you input. I have only used Ophelia as a Sorcerer and thus am not sure if her defence as a Nohr Noble would be enough to sustain a couple of hits. As Ophelia and Witch Anna would be the main spell casters and have poor defence (and that of Strategist Elise is even worse), I wanted to have a somewhat 'bulkier' magic user, so that I have more positioning options during player phase.
I will try it and hope that RNG winks at her.

Yep, no prob! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, too.

1 hour ago, starburst said:

In particular, I have never used Keaton for more than a couple chapters. His lack of a 1-2 range attack forces me to position him in the front line, but, in my experience, he was not bulky enough. And I have always thought that Beaststones are classified as Red Weapons within the Weapon Triangle, giving him a disadvantage against Ninjas and lances.
All in all, I may simply not know how to use him.

In my experience, the children characters have almost always been better than the parents when Beaststone Units get involved, so if you want a Beaststone user, try Velouria as you can also have her inherit a Skill from her mother to give her a bit of a jumpstart on the Skillset.

10 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I can't tell if you're asking us or if those questions are stuff you'd expect to be asked... so I might not be any help.

Hey, you're still here! Hadn't seen you for a while and was starting to wonder. I had to borrow your welcome quote for someone, by the way, hope you don't mind. As for the Beserker thing, eh, some people like to chance it all, even if we don't…plus it's apparently possible to get Charlotte to 100 Crit in every fight, so that might count for something to some people. To the OP, this guy generally knows what he's talking about, but don't mind us if we start arguing about Counter's usefulness, it's an ongoing debate that will never truly end.

[starburst]

On 10/10/2017 at 1:52 PM, SoulWeaver said:

In my experience, the children characters have almost always been better than the parents when Beaststone Units get involved, so if you want a Beaststone user, try Velouria as you can also have her inherit a Skill from her mother to give her a bit of a jumpstart on the Skillset.

You see, in my last campaign, I already had eleven defined characters (eight main-story adults, two children and Anna) before Chapter 10. Then came Camilla, Leo and Xander. These fourteen units were used during the entire run, until Azama and Flora joined (around Chapter 24.)
But if I add children, say Ignatius or Soleil as Camilla's kids, I have to wait until Chapter 17-18 to 'unlock' them (or replay DLC maps various times to grind supports). I guess that I need to reorganise my run and learn how to play with children who come a bit later.

 

On 10/10/2017 at 1:12 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

As for Hero Odin, it could work, though I disagree on it having useful skills since Good Fortune and Sol are both pretty lackluster imho. Which leaves Strong Riposte as the only really useful skill (that you'd have access to for more than like 3 chapters at most, that is).

I wouldn't call Berserker more fun, or any fun at all for that matter - what's so fun about constantly risking games???

[...]

I personally prefer Paladin for Sophie.

If Awakening is anything to go by, I assume it does. Not that Sol is worth a reclass to get...

I would say no on Wyvern Lord Xander - losing Siegfried is enough to make it a losing trade imho.

A lot of people insist that Benny needs Wary Fighter, so General for him.

As for Keaton, I often find myself using the Beastrune (this goes for beast units in general, actually).

I'm not seeing what Strategist does for Leo, frankly...

Honestly, I simply wanted to try the Hero class, and given that Silas will be a Sniper and Corrin, a Nohr Noble; Odin and Sophie were the only ones with access to it, with weapon proficiency and with compatible growths (Odin is always a toss-up.)
Berserker looks like a risky class, but Odin seemed to have the Skill, the bonuses and the Luck to pull it off.

Paladin Sophie was my first choice, too, with almost identical growths than as Great Lord, and the same weapons. But Paladin Xander, who I guess is the epitome of Paladin, is not particularly interesting. Perhaps I am overrating Sol and the other Hero skills.

Other users here suggested Wyvern Lord Xander. I too value Sigfried, but maybe I was missing something; like Wyvern Lord Camilla, whom, I believe, you recommended me in a different thread. Before I had only used MK Camilla with a Bolt Axe.
At least it did not sound as weird as Wyvern Rider Elise, and some users here argue that it is her best path.

Strategist Leo might suit my party even if it is not his best class, if only because Elise is the only staff user. I have used Leo as a Dark Knight and as a Dark Flyer, and could not find his niche. He gained levels because I fed him kills, but did not excel at any particular task.

Thank you both for your comments.

Edited November 23, 2017 by starburst

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Hey, you're still here! Hadn't seen you for a while and was starting to wonder. I had to borrow your welcome quote for someone, by the way, hope you don't mind. As for the Beserker thing, eh, some people like to chance it all, even if we don't…plus it's apparently possible to get Charlotte to 100 Crit in every fight, so that might count for something to some people. To the OP, this guy generally knows what he's talking about, but don't mind us if we start arguing about Counter's usefulness, it's an ongoing debate that will never truly end.

I dunno about that one - I'm not seeing that happen without either using a weapon that has laughable accuracy and/or against very specific classes. As for Counter, it's not as lopsided as it was in Awakening (it now only works on the turn opposite that of the user), but it  still comes too late to get much mileage out of. The class that gets it could be another problem, too.

54 minutes ago, starburst said:

Honestly, I simply wanted to try the Hero class, and given that Silas will be a Sniper and Corrin herself a Nohr Noble, Odin and Sophie were the ones with access to it, with weapon proficiency and compatible growths (Odin is always a toss-up.)

Berserker looks like a risky class, but Odin seemed to have the Skill, the bonuses and the Luck to pull it off.

Paladin Sophie was my first choice, too, with almost identical growths than as Great Lord, and the same weapons. But Paladin Xander, who I guess is the epitome of Paladin, is not particularly interesting. Perhaps I am overrating Sol and the other Hero skills.

Other users here suggested Wyvern Lord Xander. I too value Sigfried, but maybe I was missing something; like Wyvern Lord Camilla, whom, I believe, you recommended me in a different thread. Before I had only used MK Camilla with a Bolt Axe.
At least it did not sound as weird as Wyvern Rider Elise, and some users here argue that it is her best path.

Strategist Leo might suit my party even if it is not his best class, if only because Elise is the only staff user. I have used Leo as a Dark Knight and as a Dark Flyer, and could not find his niche. He gained levels because I fed him kills, but did not excel at any particular task.

 

Thank you both for your comments.

Well, Odin as a Hero isn't too bad a suggestion.

The thing about Berserker is that it comes with a crit evade penalty, which I consider a very bad thing. I consider it comparable to using Thunder, Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, or Blizzard over their less powerful, but more accurate alternatives (I would've mentioned Stone Edge or Focus Blast, but those don't really have a Thunderbolt analogue). Or High Jump Kick, except with much higher risk.

Well, I kinda like Paladin's extra movement, which is why I recommended it.

I find it pretty hard to consider Wyvern Lord Xander worth it when he loses drawback-free ranged attacks, as well as the ability to face high crit enemies without worry. Also, the main proponent of Wyvern Rider Elise (which, to be blunt, is a horrible idea) is someone who I tend to not get along with.

Fair enough, I guess,

Edited October 10, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[wissenschaft]

I would suggest going with a Speed boon Magic bane Hero Corrin. Gives you decent str growth (60%) but more importantly a high speed growth (70%) that allows you to use weapons like the kodachi without getting doubled. Also, high skill growth (65%) so you can make good use of skills like Sol. STR issues can be solved through forging, and the Yato is powerful enough that you should be able to ORKO most enemies regardless. On the other hand, speed is harder to make up and you can never have too much.

I'm playing as a Corrin Magic boon Luck Bane Cavalier in Lunatic conquest and it is a pretty good build. I got a bit magic screwed but theres spirit dust items for that. Its very flexible build with access to Yato, Levin Sword, and spears. The biggest selling point is the extra movement which is very useful. The extra weaknesses to counter weapons as a mounted unit are worth the extra mobility.

Of course, you can just give Hero Corrin boots to increase his movement. Another nice advantage of Hero Corrin is access to Axes which have WTA vs weapons that counter swords. Having Axes is nice when dealing with ninja scum. Plus, you'll have high skill and luck to make those Axes more accurate.

Edited October 11, 2017 by wissenschaft

[joshcja]

13 hours ago, wissenschaft said:

I would suggest going with a Speed boon Magic bane Hero Corrin. Gives you decent str growth (60%) but more importantly a high speed growth (70%) that allows you to use weapons like the kodachi without getting doubled. Also, high skill growth (65%) so you can make good use of skills like Sol. STR issues can be solved through forging, and the Yato is powerful enough that you should be able to ORKO most enemies regardless. On the other hand, speed is harder to make up and you can never have too much.

I'm playing as a Corrin Magic boon Luck Bane Cavalier in Lunatic conquest and it is a pretty good build. I got a bit magic screwed but theres spirit dust items for that. Its very flexible build with access to Yato, Levin Sword, and spears. The biggest selling point is the extra movement which is very useful. The extra weaknesses to counter weapons as a mounted unit are worth the extra mobility.

Of course, you can just give Hero Corrin boots to increase his movement. Another nice advantage of Hero Corrin is access to Axes which have WTA vs weapons that counter swords. Having Axes is nice when dealing with ninja scum. Plus, you'll have high skill and luck to make those Axes more accurate.

Pretty sure all of this also applies to +hp/mag/str bow knight. Hero's are really bad at using axes because no brave yo.

Similarly sniper skills are really good but kinshi/BK are way more useful overall. Silias is fine in any physical class though.

Vanguard Xander is... xander but worse because 6 move and/or not a bird. (Paladin!Xander see's next to 0 use in the maps you want bird for)

Hero/BK Odin is basicly hero/bk Laslow with slightly higher mag and aura's instead of footwork. Both have better options but BK is BK so it's not actively bad.

Obligitory wyvern!Elise is actually good.

Edited October 11, 2017 by joshcja

[starburst]

17 hours ago, wissenschaft said:

I would suggest going with a Speed boon Magic bane Hero Corrin. Gives you decent str growth (60%) but more importantly a high speed growth (70%) that allows you to use weapons like the kodachi without getting doubled. [...]

I'm playing as a Corrin Magic boon Luck Bane Cavalier in Lunatic conquest and it is a pretty good build. I got a bit magic screwed but theres spirit dust items for that. Its very flexible build with access to Yato, Levin Sword, and spears. [...]

Of course, you can just give Hero Corrin boots to increase his movement. Another nice advantage of Hero Corrin is access to Axes which have WTA vs weapons that counter swords. Having Axes is nice when dealing with ninja scum. Plus, you'll have high skill and luck to make those Axes more accurate.

Hey, there! The thing is that Corrin must be +Magic because I want to try Ophelia as a Nohr Noble. And no other asset is useful for Ophelia's growths, she is plainly not versatile. And because I decided that Silas would be a Sniper, only Odin and Sophie are the candidates for Hero.

You know, my Vanguard Corrin with +Speed -Magic is a beast, and he was never the unit with the highest level. Hero's growths are more balanced, but both classes play the same role gameplay-wise. I chose Vanguard over Hero to get faster access to axes.
At level 32, wielding a Dual Club and drugged with a Lumen Tonic, Vanguard Corrin was so successful at defeating Ryoma (three times in 4-6 turns) on Chapter 25, that I decided not to face him and let my other units gain experience.

 

 

3 hours ago, joshcja said:

Pretty sure all of this also applies to +hp/mag/str bow knight. Hero's are really bad at using axes because no brave yo.

Similarly sniper skills are really good but kinshi/BK are way more useful overall. Silias is fine in any physical class though.

Vanguard Xander is... xander but worse because 6 move and/or not a bird. (Paladin!Xander see's next to 0 use in the maps you want bird for)

Hero/BK Odin is basicly hero/bk Laslow with slightly higher mag and aura's instead of footwork. Both have better options but BK is BK so it's not actively bad.

I think that you were present in most of the threads where Wyvern Rider Elise and Wyvern Lord Xander were suggested. And this is one of the very few occasions where Bow Knight is praised as a final class.

Odin's growths do not shine at anything, but having a lower Max Defence than as Sorcerer, a 40 % Defence growth and a 45 % in Strenght as Bow Knight seem risky. Is Bow Knight great because of the movement and skills? I am asking you this because I usually disregard the level 35 skill when choosing a promotion. My units reach level 35 after Chapter 25 of Conquest, most of them by Chapter 27.

I guess that a Bow Knight plays in the second line, unless it is an inherently bulky unit (say, Silas or Mozu.) But if Bow Knight Odin does not have enough Strength or Speed to hit hard or double with a bow, nor enough magic (30 %) to effectively use a  Shinning Bow, I cannot easily picture the strategy behind it.

Edited October 11, 2017 by starburst

[joshcja]

4 hours ago, starburst said:

Hey, there! The thing is that Corrin must be +Magic because I want to try Ophelia as a Nohr Noble. And no other asset is useful for Ophelia's growths, she is plainly not versatile. And because I decided that Silas would be a Sniper, only Odin and Sophie are the candidates for Hero.

You know, my Vanguard Corrin with +Speed -Magic is a beast, and he was never the unit with the highest level. Hero's growths are more balanced, but both classes play the same role gameplay-wise. I chose Vanguard over Hero to get faster access to axes.
At level 32, wielding a Dual Club and drugged with a Lumen Tonic, Vanguard Corrin was so successful at defeating Ryoma (three times in 4-6 turns) on Chapter 25, that I decided not to face him and let my other units gain experience.

 

 

I think that you were present in most of the threads where Wyvern Rider Elise and Wyvern Lord Xander were suggested. And this is one of the very few occasions where Bow Knight is praised as a final class.

Odin's growths do not shine at anything, but having a lower Max Defence than as Sorcerer, a 40 % Defence growth and a 45 % in Strenght as Bow Knight seem risky. Is Bow Knight great because of the movement and skills? I am asking you this because I usually disregard the level 35 skill when choosing a promotion. My units reach level 35 after Chapter 25 of Conquest, most of them by Chapter 27.

I guess that a Bow Knight plays in the second line, unless it is an inherently bulky unit (say, Silas or Mozu.) But if Bow Knight Odin does not have enough Strength or Speed to hit hard or double with a bow, nor enough magic (30 %) to effectively use a  Shinning Bow, I cannot easily picture the strategy behind it.

It''s a pony with a bow. Sold. Cheap player phase killing power aquired. Slap that shit on everything not pulling a dedicated ep blender/bosskiller/support build. Bowbird serves the same (often overlapping) purpose.

The rest of that post is... really poorly thought out. Are you expecting me to defend BK odin? If so uuuuh, no, nope, nuh-uh, not doing it. Bowpony is better than infantry dude with gimped axe rank and no relevant stat leads, but this is still a severely hamstrung not-a-sorc Odin.

Bows have high MT.

Edited October 11, 2017 by joshcja

[starburst]

20 hours ago, joshcja said:

It''s a pony with a bow. Sold. Cheap player phase killing power aquired. Slap that shit on everything not pulling a dedicated ep blender/bosskiller/support build. Bowbird serves the same (often overlapping) purpose.

The rest of that post is... really poorly thought out. Are you expecting me to defend BK odin? If so uuuuh, no, nope, nuh-uh, not doing it. Bowpony is better than infantry dude with gimped axe rank and no relevant stat leads, but this is still a severely hamstrung not-a-sorc Odin.

Bows have high MT.

You are right, the last paragraph should have been worded differently. I should have focussed on the practicality of Bow Knight itself, rather than on my own doubts.
I have read multiple times that Bow Knight was not worth it, but I should give it a try and decide by myself (maybe not on this campaign, though.)

Edited October 12, 2017 by starburst

[starburst]

After a couple of chapters in and feeling overpowered, I decided to restart my campaign and not to use DLC at all.

I also followed the thread about Beastskin classes, and having played five chapters using Keaton, I decided that a Wolfssenger was not the unit that I was looking for. I focussed on Velouria instead, who has more balanced growths and could work as a Hero.

This is my party right before Chapter 21.
All characters are around L8 promoted, bar Camilla, who is L11.

1. Nohr Noble female Corrin (+Mag -Lck) with Oni Savage as her talent.
2. Sorcerer Odin, who was an Oni Chieftain from L3 to L5 so he could learn Death Blow.
3. Nohr Noble Ophelia (using Kanna's Dragonstone.)

4. Paladin Silas.
5. Sniper Mozu.
6 Paladin Sophie (Mozu's daughter.)

7. Great Knight Effie.
8. Bow Knight Nina (Effie's daughter.)

9. Malig Knight Camilla.
10. Hero Velouria (Camilla's daughter), re-classed at L5.

11. Strategist Elise.
12. Paladin Xander.
13. Songstress Azura.

14. Maid Felicia (only used sporadically, she is at L15.)

Edited November 1, 2017 by starburst

[starburst]

I wanted to give a final review about this campaign after Endgame, but I did not have enough spare time this week.
I just finished Chapter 25, but Elise died due to a miscalculation and I will re-play it tomorrow or on Monday. I still completed the chapter to test some strategies.

Even though I am still missing the difficult last two chapters, I already have an opinion about the characters and classes what I tried for the first time.

Bow Knight Nina (Effie's daughter) was the greatest surprise. At level 15, she has HP 32, Str 31, Mag 10, Skl 28, Spd 35, Lck 31, Def 22 and Res 30; and doubles all enemies, is extremely accurate, makes tons of critical hits with a Killer Bow, is immune to magic, and can sustain a couple of hits on enemy phase (she inherited Def +2.)

She had mediocre level-ups right after recruitment, which made me think that she might simply be a 'bad leveller', like Silas or Niles. Luckily, she has been gaining 4-5 stat increases consistently.
As a Bow Knight she has relatively low caps (she already capped Str and Lck), but her accuracy, high Res and movement make her a versatile unit. I would definitely re-recruit her in future campaigns.

 

Nohr Noble Ophelia worked even better as I expected. I wanted her to be less fragile and capable of taking one or two hits (like Sorcerer Odin), but she was actually better than Corrin in every single statistic bar Skill. Ophelia would actually hit harder than her mother, if she were not using bronze swords.
Ophelia normally lands lots critical hits, now she lands them on the front lines.

According to the average stats, Corrin (+Mag -Lck) was not particularly RNG-screwed, but the constant comparison between mother and daughter made me use more stat-boosterst than usual on Corrin. I normally give Corrin one Res- and one or two Lck-boosters, but on this run I gave her boosters for Str, Lck (twice), Mag and Def, so that she could keep up with Ophelia.

 

Hero Velouria (Camilla's daughter) required two Arms Scrolls right upon re-classing, but it was worth it. She has balanced stats, gives useful pair-up bonuses (Str, Skl, Spd and Def), has access to skills that synergise really well (personal, Better Odds, HP +5 and Sol), and her accuracy (Skl 30 at L13) allows her to use and abuse axes and killer weapons. As a bonus, her supports with Camilla and Nina are really sweet. If only I could recruit her earlier...
She was available by Chapter 20, and I had her parents paired-up on every previous chapter and invasion, and one paralogue.

 

Sorcerer Odin with Death Blow is like a second Sniper Mozu with a Killer Double Bow. Death Blow makes Odin so reliable at landing a critical hit that one can plan the strategy with it in mind.
I was worried about screwing his Luck, Skill and specially his already hazardous Magic when re-classing him to Oni Chieftain for a couple of levels (late L2 to early L5), but they were not affected at all. At level  15, he has Mag 34, Skl 27 and Lck 27. I did give him one Spirit Dust, but his Magic is tied with Elise's, which usually never happens.


Strategist Leo is not as good as Strategist Elise, but it is still decent.
I was not going to use Leo at all on this campaign, but I decided to re-class him right before Chapter 22 and use him as an 'extra Elise.' This let me use Felicia as a bonus pair-up for Xander fore more turns and still have two healers always available.

[joshcja]

That's only slightly above average Odin mag yo.

Gen2 CQ ladies are really busted yes.

[starburst]

6 hours ago, joshcja said:

That's only slightly above average Odin mag yo.

Gen2 CQ ladies are really busted yes.

It does? This is the first time that I have been checking the average statistics during a campaign. But according to this source (1), Sorcerer Odin's Magic caps at 36 but usually ends up being 29 at 20/20, and should be around 26 at 15/20. In my case, it is already 32 at 15/20 (it is 34, but I used a Spirit Dust.)

Anyway, I had always taken for granted that Sorcerer Odin's Magic would be way lower than Elise's or Sorcerer Ophelia's. Thus I am happy that Odin's Magic rivals that of Elise for the first time (in my experience.)

And you are right about the Conquest girls. Since I am enjoying Heroine Velouria, I may try Heroine Soleil on my next campaign.
 

1. http://zekareisoujin.github.io/FEFatesStatCalc/

[joshcja]

Shrug, I just sorta treat relevant notpainfultorig stats as +1 per reclass over the unweighted average x.x. Seeded growths are super abusable. Using Odin also sorta forces a ch8 rig on mag to avoid growing pains so it's rare that I see him not cap after a dust. Different strokes I guess.

Harlot!Soliel is really silly as a MN. Statwall sol is statwall sol.

Edited November 6, 2017 by joshcja