Are FEH's later maps unfair

[Vaximillian]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

So do I. . .but luckily, Leon's pretty enough to work.  Having one less attack than Bridal Cordy is a huge plus, too.

This is the biggest appeal of this game for me: you are always able to figure out something with the hand you got dealt.

[eclipse]

Just now, Vaximillian said:

This is the biggest appeal of this game for me: you are always able to figure out something with the hand you got dealt.

Luckily, there hasn't been any challenge that's SO difficult that you HAVE to have a certain pulled unit or you're screwed.  And I hope it stays that way.

[Clogon]

13 hours ago, tanuki said:

A special ability had to be made to break the rules and add an artificial challenge.

Iote shield doesn't break any rules. It cancels the special ability of specific weapons and there are many skills that do so. There is no skill that reverses the triangle only skills that cancel other special effects.

[Sayyyaka]

Chain Challenge 11&12 is the only thing in the game I'd define as "unfair"

Severely inflated stats + turn limit is pure bullshit.

[Kiran]

I think the only thing that was "unfair" was embla's ward. This was the one thing that annoyed me. Making an enemy unit outright invincible was a sloppy way of difficulty increase.

[kcirrot]

15 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

"Bows beat fliers" is not a core mechanic (and isn't even remotely true to begin with outside of the Quick Hero Battle minigame where it is a core mechanic). "Effective damage is a 1.5 multiplier to Atk" is a core mechanic.

And guess what? Bows don't have effective damage against fliers equipped with Iote's Shield.

I just wanted to add to this.  A unit having a skill like Iote's shield creates an opportunity cost for that unit, in that they don't have another A skill that is more generally applicable.  Which is an opportunity for the opponent to exploit.   

[kcirrot]

52 minutes ago, Kiran said:

I think the only thing that was "unfair" was embla's ward. This was the one thing that annoyed me. Making an enemy unit outright invincible was a sloppy way of difficulty increase.

I didn't see that as intended to increase difficulty.  The Embla's Ward was to enforce the "turns to defend" rule.  The point of those maps aren't to nuke everything down and dip, which in a game that has rapidly devolved into ORKO strategies and characters is welcome.

[GuiltyLove]

I would only call 11/12 Lunatic CC unfair. Maybe the CYL/dancer CC too

Otherwise, it's not that big of a deal, especially now that we have a lot more resources in the form of Sacred Seals!

[Usana]

What I find annoying is when I am forced to field a dancer. I don't really care for red Olivia, and yet I was forced to run her over and over again. However, a big part of that was due to ORKO meta. When you are playing a map where you can't lose anyone and are playing a game where any encounter equals an auto KO you basically need a dancer so that you can avoid encounters on the enemy phase.

Still that has faded some since I pulled a Ninian and the PA banner. Now that I have some dancers I like, I don't mind so much. Still it grates a bit if I feel like I am forced to use a specific unit. Red Olivia being the only dancer that most people are likely to see means any map that feels like you need a dancer immediately gets my blood pressure up. We need some 4/3 star pull-able dancers that aren't ROliva.

[Othin]

55 minutes ago, Usana said:

We need some 4/3 star pull-able dancers that aren't ROliva.

There haven't been any 3/4* summonable units added beyond the ones that have been around since the very beginning, so don't get your hopes up.

Even another dancer being available below 5* seems pretty unlikely at this point, but I don't think that's a big issue. Everyone can get a dancer, and getting alternatives is just something you have to pull for.

[Prince Endriu]

1 hour ago, Usana said:

What I find annoying is when I am forced to field a dancer. I don't really care for red Olivia, and yet I was forced to run her over and over again. However, a big part of that was due to ORKO meta. When you are playing a map where you can't lose anyone and are playing a game where any encounter equals an auto KO you basically need a dancer so that you can avoid encounters on the enemy phase.

Still that has faded some since I pulled a Ninian and the PA banner. Now that I have some dancers I like, I don't mind so much. Still it grates a bit if I feel like I am forced to use a specific unit. Red Olivia being the only dancer that most people are likely to see means any map that feels like you need a dancer immediately gets my blood pressure up. We need some 4/3 star pull-able dancers that aren't ROliva.

Dancers were the reason why I spent money on this game and bought 9orbs packs. Now I have 5 dancers - 7 would be better, though.

But you are right the game has certain limitations in regard to gameplay. There is only so much you can do uf you have to stick to 8x6 maps and 4 unit teams. It seems to me at times that thias game is less about the gameplay and more about collecting and 'crafting' units for specific purposes. With each new powercreep unit the meta changes and you have to re-craft and adjust your units to be able to counter them.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

6 hours ago, Clogon said:

Iote shield doesn't break any rules. It cancels the special ability of specific weapons and there are many skills that do so. There is no skill that reverses the triangle only skills that cancel other special effects.

Cancel Affinity 3 comes pretty close to that, but even if there was weapon triangle reversal, I don't see how that would be a problem. Reaver weapons are a thing in the main series, after all.

[Tuvy]

I thought strategy game wasn't just about using the best units, but having fun and learning how to deal with situations when you don't have the most "viable" team. Look, I just don't like using top tier units. I find it boring, especially when they aren't the characters I like. I'll say it again, I'm probably still salty about the fact that my favorite characters aren't in the game yet, but I still feel that the game tries to force you to use certain units.

[Ice Dragon]

19 minutes ago, Tuvy said:

I'll say it again, I'm probably still salty about the fact that my favorite characters aren't in the game yet, but I still feel that the game tries to force you to use certain units.

Did you even watch the videos that @XRay linked?

Edited October 13, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[Othin]

19 minutes ago, Tuvy said:

I thought strategy game wasn't just about using the best units, but having fun and learning how to deal with situations when you don't have the most "viable" team. Look, I just don't like using top tier units. I find it boring, especially when they aren't the characters I like. I'll say it again, I'm probably still salty about the fact that my favorite characters aren't in the game yet, but I still feel that the game tries to force you to use certain units.

Like I said earlier: you can use whoever you want, but if you want to use units that aren't especially good, you'll have to stick to lower difficulties. Or pay a lot of money to put some serious upgrades into your favorites, like how @Ice Dragon uses his +10 Peri to solo super challenging maps with dancer support.

The higher difficulties exist so that those of us who want to use high-quality units can have a compelling challenge. (And at this point, I don't think they're even really living up to that.) If that's not how you want to play, just pretend those higher difficulties don't exist.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

3 hours ago, Tuvy said:

I thought strategy game wasn't just about using the best units, but having fun and learning how to deal with situations when you don't have the most "viable" team. Look, I just don't like using top tier units. I find it boring, especially when they aren't the characters I like. I'll say it again, I'm probably still salty about the fact that my favorite characters aren't in the game yet, but I still feel that the game tries to force you to use certain units.

There are certain limits that require compromise, though. Do you have experience with Lunatic in the main series? Because those generally also demand that you fill certain roles. It's strategy because yes, you can use less viable stuff, so long as you work with it. This typically requires having a synergistic team comp. As I noted before, if your favourite pick is, say, Henry, then he'll want allies who cover his weaknesses and/or play off of his strengths. This may involve having to bring units who aren't your favourite alongside your favourite. Just throwing together a mishmash of four whatever is just asking for trouble, even with top-tier units. At that point, it just becomes trying to brute force things through bad match-ups.

There is one way around this and it's basically putting a lot of time and/or money into the game. If you're not willing to be flexible about team comp, then you have to retool your chosen comp in order to synergize together. Depending on who needs what, this can get really expensive.

[Mackc2]

A lot of the later maps allow the computer to be a cheating bastard and thats just because the computer really wouldn't stand a chance if it didn't. So yes the later maps are unfair especially the chain challenges but thats all that keeps the game interesting.

[Zeo]

As said multiple times in this game the only thing that was truly evil was Lunatic 11/12. The inflation gets so ridiculous coupled with unit placement, defense tiles and time limits that it basically becomes impossible, at the very least with one team.

Every other challenge can be met with what you have if not now then later. As the game progresses you get more and more powerful units. There isn't a single challenge that beat me that I wasn't able to overcome when it came back around. 

[Prince Endriu]

15 hours ago, Tuvy said:

I thought strategy game wasn't just about using the best units, but having fun and learning how to deal with situations when you don't have the most "viable" team. Look, I just don't like using top tier units. I find it boring, especially when they aren't the characters I like. I'll say it again, I'm probably still salty about the fact that my favorite characters aren't in the game yet, but I still feel that the game tries to force you to use certain units.

Its not necessarily like that. I beat minerva bhb infernal with what you might call top tier units. Somebody on this forum posted a vid with 4* units. There is lots of options if you try.

If you think about skill inheritance, it has made lower ranked units better and some top tier units like Takumi arent great anymore. Its an ongoing meta-changing experience. 

Like I said before, it would be boring if new content could always be beaten with one and the same team

 

[Charmeleonbrah]

22 hours ago, Tuvy said:

I thought strategy game wasn't just about using the best units, but having fun and learning how to deal with situations when you don't have the most "viable" team. Look, I just don't like using top tier units. I find it boring, especially when they aren't the characters I like. I'll say it again, I'm probably still salty about the fact that my favorite characters aren't in the game yet, but I still feel that the game tries to force you to use certain units.

I agree and disagree with this.  As has been mentioned before, any unit can become pretty good with SI plus supports, and most recently Sacred Seals.  Another thing is that, despite the protestations of IS, power creep is sort of becoming an issue.  I'm in Tier 19, and almost every match is some combination of Reinhardt/Brave Lyn/Brave Ike/Hector/Azura/Xander/Black Knight.  I guess my point is that you probably have a good amount of those aforementioned units due to the August banner, Tempest Trial, and monthlong dancer banner although I gave up on getting NeoOlivia., so just use the powercreep units and you'll be fine.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

I like the added difficulty - I am pretty stubborn and I will pretty much always use my Marth/Gordin/Camus/Merric team over any other units. Those are my favorites, and I enjoy making them work. I have a B team set up, for things like the chain challenges, but those are also favorite units and not the meta. I'm a player that doesn't enjoy the meta, I enjoy the characters I love to use. I don't care if I'm seen as the best or worst or whatever.

I remember being stuck in a rut because I wanted to give everyone +4 stat assists, and I opened up entirely new worlds by giving each of my team members a movement based assist. From my experience, being able to move (or unable to move) makes or breaks the game. I hate using a dancer, but I found I loved scooting a Gordin around to pick off one member at a time and running off, haha. But it took my game from "Lunatic is bullshit" to "Lunatic is  really fun to play".

[XRay]

40 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I agree and disagree with this.  As has been mentioned before, any unit can become pretty good with SI plus supports, and most recently Sacred Seals.  Another thing is that, despite the protestations of IS, power creep is sort of becoming an issue.  I'm in Tier 19, and almost every match is some combination of Reinhardt/Brave Lyn/Brave Ike/Hector/Azura/Xander/Black Knight.  I guess my point is that you probably have a good amount of those aforementioned units due to the August banner, Tempest Trial, and monthlong dancer banner although I gave up on getting NeoOlivia., so just use the powercreep units and you'll be fine.

Outside of Reinhardt and BH!Lyn, the others are definitely not powercreep. Compared to Hector, BH!Ike trades combat performance for somewhat better mobility, although Hector with Armor March support may be better overall. Hector and Azura are in the base game, so they cannot be considered powercreep if there is nothing existing before to creep against. Xander is a really good Enemy Phase unit, but Player Phase BH!Roy is superior in raw power and has access to more merge levels. Black Knight is a really good Enemy Phase unit like Xander, but Player Phase units are still superior in terms of raw power.

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Outside of Reinhardt and BH!Lyn, the others are definitely not powercreep. Compared to Hector, BH!Ike trades combat performance for somewhat better mobility, although Hector with Armor March support may be better overall. Hector and Azura are in the base game, so they cannot be considered powercreep if there is nothing existing before to creep against. Xander is a really good Enemy Phase unit, but Player Phase BH!Roy is superior in raw power and has access to more merge levels. Black Knight is a really good Enemy Phase unit like Xander, but Player Phase units are still superior in terms of raw power.

tbh Black Knight is currently underrated because there arent enough merges for him viable a +10 Black Knight with Wrath 3, Steady Breath and Deflect magic 3 in Arena would be my nightmare lol, i wouldnt know with what to tackle him without getting the unit killed on counterattack orz ._. ecxept with a fully buffed Litreblade user

Hector has become a footnote imho. He is still good, but he is really not that scary as he was once the game launched, there are an abundance of Counters to him available, just follow the simple rule of not attacking him but letting him you attack

Edited October 14, 2017 by Hilda

[Charmeleonbrah]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Outside of Reinhardt and BH!Lyn, the others are definitely not powercreep. Compared to Hector, BH!Ike trades combat performance for somewhat better mobility, although Hector with Armor March support may be better overall. Hector and Azura are in the base game, so they cannot be considered powercreep if there is nothing existing before to creep against. Xander is a really good Enemy Phase unit, but Player Phase BH!Roy is superior in raw power and has access to more merge levels. Black Knight is a really good Enemy Phase unit like Xander, but Player Phase units are still superior in terms of raw power.

I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was made in a more general sense for the game.  The units I listed are all moderately to significantly better than almost all the units in the game, especially the ones that were initially introduced, and our topic creator could just use the new units and field a top-tier team.  I mean, Brave Lyn has only one "weakness", which is Raven-tome users, but the only native users are Robin and Cecilia, and they are pretty mediocre units in general so are not commonly used.  I feel B! Ike may be the best enemy phase unit out there on a defensive level, because unless you have a green/red mage you have to resort to figuratively gang-tackling him due to Urvan/Steady Breath/Aether.  Btw I meant veiled Azura.  But then again, i'm not playing against the +10 merged teams in Arena, the teams I face usually give 684-692 points including the bonus character boost. 

[Hilda]

13 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was made in a more general sense for the game.  The units I listed are all moderately to significantly better than almost all the units in the game, especially the ones that were initially introduced, and our topic creator could just use the new units and field a top-tier team.  I mean, Brave Lyn has only one "weakness", which is Raven-tome users, but the only native users are Robin and Cecilia, and they are pretty mediocre units in general so are not commonly used.  I feel B! Ike may be the best enemy phase unit out there on a defensive level, because unless you have a green/red mage you have to resort to figuratively gang-tackling him due to Urvan/Steady Breath/Aether.  Btw I meant veiled Azura.  But then again, i'm not playing against the +10 merged teams in Arena, the teams I face usually give 684-692 points including the bonus character boost. 

mmm BLyn has a few more counters not only Raven tome. Boey is an excellent counter with gronnowl and bonfire + Quickriposte if you can position him accordingly. also Blyn counters herself lulz, whoever attacks first! Units with high physical bulk can bait her. however now a Firesweep bow + Cancel Affinity Brave Lyn has really no counter! you just have to bait her and pray to god she doesnt get redanced or repositioned lol