Separate Pokemon anime for older fans?

[Dragoncat]

Ash never wins a league, he never knows what the heck he's doing/he doesn't retain the knowledge he gains between regions, and worst of all, he's an immortal 10 year old. It's quite obvious they're making the Pokemon anime for kids even though there are scores of older fans. Fans who grew up playing Pokemon. Fans who would totally make a better anime if Nintendo would allow it. (RIP Pokemon Uranium)

Do you agree with me, or do you think the manga is enough? The manga is darker and more violent, but idk if it's been officially localized or not. I know I've seen Pokemon manga but I have no idea if it's the PG-13/T rated one, I haven't checked. Some of the games have taken a darker turn, with the Orre spinoffs being the closest we've gotten and being called the Majora's Mask of Pokemon. And even without Team Skull being allowed to curse like sailors and act like an actual violent street gang, Sun/Moon had a great story imo. A game doesn't have to be vulgar to be good. But I do find myself wanting Pokemon with more mature themes.

An anime for older fans seems like the way to do it. Kids still play the games so that would be a big risk making a T rated Pokemon game. But they could keep the kids' anime, and bring on a team to make a separate one for older fans. Can anyone more familiar with anime suggest who might be up for it, possibly? Which anime producer would you like to see take the job? The only hurdle would possibly be distinguishing it from the kids' one, I'm not sure how they would advertise it without reaching younger fans. I'd make it only available online, not air it on TV, on its own site, maybe require people to put in their birthdate before being allowed to watch it. 16 seems like a good age limit for me. People might record it and put it on youtube, but we're not talking something R rated here, so even if under 16s see it it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

This is totally an "if only..." kind of thing, but what do you think?

[Dragoncat]

Accidental double post, please delete

Edited October 13, 2017 by Dragoncat

[DisobeyedCargo]

I am currently reading the manga, and it's pretty dang good, defenitly dark. I do not know of any differences between the Japanese and English versions.

I am pretty sure that there is a summarized/censored version though for kids but that's besides the point.

in regards to your question, are you looking for a smarter protagonist, more adult themes, more faithfulness to the games? All three of those could make a damn good anime.

Personally I would love a full Pokémon anime like how they did Pokémon generations, only longer.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

By Manga do you mean Pokemon Adventures? Because I use to collect those books. They were localized, at least for a time.

I think the show is fine as is. I don't keep up with it or any anime as an adult, but a dedicated kids show makes sense to continually drum up new fans for the franchise. Also I watched the first few of the Generations videos after being told it was way more serious and matured, and found myself laughing at the ridiculousness of that police force. The more they try to explain, the less I could take a show like that seriously. Instead, focus on the direction the games have been taking. Storylines are deeper, but aren't going for a mature tone. That's more impressive than showing an arbok getting sliced in half for shock value.

[Nym]

Tbh, I would be down if for a mature pokémon anime on Pokémon XD, that would be like the best thing.

The game is so long, you could do like around 200 episodes with fillers.

Mickael could be an okay protagonist.

The evil organisation could actually be scary but also funny at the same time.

And you would get to see more Pokémon in battle, just not god damn Pikachu and sometimes other pokémon.

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Nym

[Magical Glace]

I'd be down with a PokéSpe anime... but it's a bit late for that, since there are constant back references and such and they'd either start from the beginning and thus would be terribly behind, or start from a more recent chapter and cause continuity lockout.  Beyond a PokéSpe Generations thing there's no real way it can work.  To give an example of the continuity lockout potential,

Spoiler

Platinum Berlitz is the daughter of the researcher who made the green orb to control Rayquaza, whose lab Ruby accidentally trashed when he was 5 by fighting off a Salamence.  Said trashing of Mrs. Berlitz's lab would later come back as a minor plot point in ORAS when it's revealed that Zinnia released that Salamence.  

Platinum's father, meanwhile, is Moon's teacher.

The plots can stand on their own, but there is enough continuity that it seems strange to only adapt the most recent stuff.

I also disagree that it's all that dark past the first chapter, it's darker than the anime and games for sure, but it's really not that bad.

The first chapter though was really weird in general so.

 

Anyway, onto the more general topic of a Pokémon anime for older audiences, yeah, I'd watch it.  See how it turns out.

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[Dragoncat]

59 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

 

Personally I would love a full Pokémon anime like how they did Pokémon generations, only longer.

Yes, or Origins! 

 

46 minutes ago, Nym said:

Tbh, I would be down if for a mature pokémon anime on Pokémon XD, that would be like the best thing.

The game is so long, you could do like around 200 episodes with fillers.

Mickael could be an okay protagonist.

The evil organisation could actually be scary but also funny at the same time.

And you would get to see more Pokémon in battle, just not god damn Pikachu and sometimes other pokémon.

 

I'd be down for this...also I want to see what became of Wes and Rui. Depending on how long XD actually is after Colosseum, they could have grandkids around Michael's age. Because come on, how could you NOT ship them...maybe one of the grandkids is the black sheep of the family and secretly works for Cipher. And another grandkid would be on the good guys' side. And Wes would be kind of a crabby old "you damn kids get off my lawn" type, refusing to settle down because he knows he saved the region once and demanding respect while Rui's a sweet little old lady and is trying to get her husband tamed...again. 

The Cipher grandkid could be a girl, maybe a femme fatale type acting like she wants into Michael's pants but really she's just spying for her superiors. And then the other grandkid would be a cousin of hers, traveling with Michael at some point? Estranged siblings could work too, I guess. Gender doesn't really matter, but assuming Michael is straight this other grandkid could also be female and a possible love interest.

 

@Glaceon Mage I see, yeah, that does sound confusing. And I thought it was darker all over. I heard Archie murders somebody for example.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Dragoncat

[DisobeyedCargo]

2 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Yes, or Origins! 

 

I'd be down for this...also I want to see what became of Wes and Rui. Depending on how long XD actually is after Colosseum, they could have grandkids around Michael's age. Because come on, how could you NOT ship them...maybe one of the grandkids is the black sheep of the family and secretly works for Cipher. And another grandkid would be on the good guys' side. And Wes would be kind of a crabby old "you damn kids get off my lawn" type, refusing to settle down because he knows he saved the region once and demanding respect while Rui's a sweet little old lady and is trying to get her husband tamed...again. 

The Cipher grandkid could be a girl, maybe a femme fatale type acting like she wants into Michael's pants but really she's just spying for her superiors. And then the other grandkid would be a cousin of hers, traveling with Michael at some point? Gender doesn't really matter, but assuming Michael is straight this other grandkid could also be female and a possible love interest. Estranged siblings could work too, I guess.

 

So I get that the dark manga/Adventures is localized? Sweet. Anywhere online to read it?

Prosbably if you look around long enough you can find it. I have Red and Blue/Gold and Silver Arcs, trying to find time to finish them.

Something that would be really cool would be a kind of Pokémon origins series for each protagonist, showing off battles like Ethan Vs. Red, Steven Vs. Brendan, etc...

 

[Magical Glace]

5 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

I see, yeah, that does sound confusing. And I thought it was darker all over. I heard Archie murders somebody for example.

Emerald Chapter Spoilers

Spoiler

He does kill a rather important character, though I meant more in the sense that the darker tones of PokéSpe can be exaggerated.

Characters are put in a lot of danger and some do die/suffer fake out deaths, but it's not overly depressing or gory or anything like that.

I still recommend reading it though, it's what got me into the franchise in the first place after all.

[Dragoncat]

BUT BUT BUT. Can we talk about my (and kinda Nym's) idea about an Orre anime set in XD? If I didn't already have a lot on my plate, I'd totally fanfic that.

Origins seemed rushed. I wouldn't mind more of it for the other gens though.

[Magical Glace]

6 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

BUT BUT BUT. Can we talk about my (and kinda Nym's) idea about an Orre anime set in XD? If I didn't already have a lot on my plate, I'd totally fanfic that.

Origins seemed rushed. I wouldn't mind more of it for the other gens though.

I've never actually played the Orre games, so I can't actually comment on that... My apologies.

[Dragoncat]

Just now, Glaceon Mage said:

I've never actually played the Orre games, so I can't actually comment on that... My apologies.

Okay. Real shame actually, they're quite awesome.

[LucarioGamer812]

I know of the Pokemon Adventures Manga being localized (I myself having the first 8 issues) and it's definitely darker then the games from what I remember. As a young child I grew up with Pokemon, it's made me a gamer and has impacted my life. So I of course watched the anime, so gen 1 - gen 4 I watched. Gen 5 I watched to a point but it didn't interest me. Insert Rant Gen 6 basically got my hopes up, Ash actually looked like he had aged some despite still being 10, this was the series that introduced Mega Evolution and hence I thought maybe Ash would get good enough this time to actually win the league. I stopped watching after Korrina's episode due to Ash not getting a Lucario plus life stuff (I was so mad, it would have been perfect since the games have Korrina with 2 Lucario and Ash is a powerful Aura user, just not trained) I came back to watch the Kalos league, and the way Ash lost was utter crap. First off Alan's Charizard took a massive thunderbolt from Pikachu before mega evolving, so it did do super effective damage. Then it went up against basically a Mega Greninja while Mega evolving itself, so while Greninja had no type advantage, it did had type resistance to Charizard, and assuming Pikachu did about 1/3-1/2 of Charizards health, Ash should have won due to Greninja having higher hp, higher avoid (ninja) and using special attacks (Charizards aren't bulky, especially in Special Defense, which is Greninja's specialty besides speed). Okay rant over. So yeah, unless they gave us a anime where Ash doesn't suck and isn't forever stuck in marketing land, then I'd be happy. But overall a newer, better anime for veteran fans would be great, I wouldn't even mind if they made Pokemon Adventures an anime given I love adventures (Only have the first 8 volumes, would like to get more but I'm trying to get them in order). Also can we be real and say a Ranger Anime would be amazing. Give us another Ranger Game Nintendo/Game Freak/Pokemon Company/Creatures Inc or even a Mystery Dungeon one  (There was a short one of Mystery Dungeon if I remember right)

[Dragoncat]

I stopped watching around Johto, but yes, it's because of crap like that that the current anime sucks.

Mystery Dungeon is neat, but if they make a spinoff anime, it should be Orre, hands down. Never played Ranger so I can't agree or disagree with that.

[Nym]

38 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

I'd be down for this...also I want to see what became of Wes and Rui. Depending on how long XD actually is after Colosseum, they could have grandkids around Michael's age. Because come on, how could you NOT ship them...maybe one of the grandkids is the black sheep of the family and secretly works for Cipher. And another grandkid would be on the good guys' side. And Wes would be kind of a crabby old "you damn kids get off my lawn" type, refusing to settle down because he knows he saved the region once and demanding respect while Rui's a sweet little old lady and is trying to get her husband tamed...again. 

The Cipher grandkid could be a girl, maybe a femme fatale type acting like she wants into Michael's pants but really she's just spying for her superiors. And then the other grandkid would be a cousin of hers, traveling with Michael at some point? Estranged siblings could work too, I guess. Gender doesn't really matter, but assuming Michael is straight this other grandkid could also be female and a possible love interest.

 

Did you know that Wes was the original vilain in the devellopement of the game? Imagine how awesome it would be for Wes and Rui and the girl that you mentionned to fight Michael and the good grandkid at the end? 10 times better than obvious old man that used 7 pokémons (what a cheater, I still despite this guy years later).

We would also get some very dramatic moments, considaring Shadow pokémons are heartless monster until purify, things like snack time or lunch times would be really... sad and maybe depressing at first until purification.

We would get also the guy with the Shadow Zangoose as the main Rival probably.

Battles would also probably last longer since they are double battles and such.

25 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I've never actually played the Orre games, so I can't actually comment on that... My apologies.

You can watch a playthrough if you want. Chuggaconroy tackled on those two games (depends if you can stand him or not).

[LucarioGamer812]

3 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

I stopped watching around Johto, but yes, it's because of crap like that that the current anime sucks.

Mystery Dungeon is neat, but if they make a spinoff anime, it should be Orre, hands down. Never played Ranger so I can't agree or disagree with that.

I have not played Orre but I know of the Shadow Pokemon and it could be interesting. Ranger Games Spoilers

Spoiler

So the Ranger games are canon, as the playable Rangers do appear in the Anime along with being canon to the games due to them being able to give Manaphy to the ds games. Basically it's focused on temporary capture to use abilities via friendship. Usually a villainous team seeking to control the region/world and actually being threats. The first game had them control the legendary beasts to destroy the environment or something and later upset the Hoenn trio in the postgame. The second game had them doing mind control over the entire region's wild (and normal domestic Pokemon) and has you basically go collect ancient powerful shards to even stand a chance, also Darkrai can banish people to the Shadow Realm. The third (and final) game has you basically saving the region from an ancient super weapon, and stopping it before it falls after you cut off the power as it will flood the entire region. Oh yeah, did I also mention you can die in these games? Like you can get crushed by a submarine or ship (both happen) being out of control or flooding. Also you do almost get banished and or blown out of the sky in their respective games.

 

[Dragoncat]

13 minutes ago, Nym said:

Did you know that Wes was the original vilain in the devellopement of the game? Imagine how awesome it would be for Wes and Rui and the girl that you mentionned to fight Michael and the good grandkid at the end? 10 times better than obvious old man that used 7 pokémons (what a cheater, I still despite this guy years later).

We would also get some very dramatic moments, considaring Shadow pokémons are heartless monster until purify, things like snack time or lunch times would be really... sad and maybe depressing at first until purification.

We would get also the guy with the Shadow Zangoose as the main Rival probably.

Battles would also probably last longer since they are double battles and such.

Oh really he was? Then who was the protag? I mean I know he was pretty much an anti hero, one of the criminals himself at first, but I didn't know that.

Zook (shadow zangoose guy) could be doing odd jobs for Cipher maybe, if there has to be a rival, it'd be the good grandkid. But yes, there would be some dramatic moments and sad moments. Also imagine the Cipher girl getting chewed out by her grandpa. That could be so hilarious. 

"You are NO LONGER MY GRANDDAUGHTER! I DISOWN YOU!"

"Dear..."

"Listen here young lady, I, too, kinda did stupid things when I was your age, but if you don't pull your head out of your ass RIGHT NOW-" *continues to rant and ignore Rui*

He remembered his humble beginnings, but he forgot what it was like to be blindly following the bad guys thinking it's for a good cause. But I guess by that time, it'd be more like, the grandkid is being a rebel. Lol.

Maannnn...I should so fanfic this someday...

Edited October 13, 2017 by Dragoncat

[Nym]

9 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Oh really he was? Then who was the protag? I mean I know he was pretty much an anti hero, one of the criminals himself at first, but I didn't know that.

Zook (shadow zangoose guy) could be doing odd jobs for Cipher maybe, if there has to be a rival, it'd be the good grandkid. But yes, there would be some dramatic moments and sad moments. Also...imagine the Cipher girl getting chewed out by her grandpa. That could be so hilarious. 

"You are NO LONGER MY GRANDDAUGHTER! I DISOWN YOU!"

"Dear..."

"Listen here young lady, I, too, kinda did stupid things when I was your age, but if you don't pull your head out of your ass RIGHT NOW-" *continues to rant and ignore Rui*

He remembered his humble beginnings, but he forgot what it was like to be blindly following the bad guys thinking it's for a good cause. But I guess by that time, it'd be more like, the grandkid is being a rebel. Lol.

I meant in the XD, the final boss doesn't have 7 pokémon in Colloseum.

Idk, it would be nice if at the port, Michael battle Zook when his little sister (forgot her name) bumped into him and he gets destroyed instead of having discount Professor X uses his Alakazam to defeat him.

Oh yea, that would be nice to see!

Or imagine the ridiculous scene like Chobin on his mech Groudon.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Nym

[Dragoncat]

1 minute ago, Nym said:

I meant in the XD, the final boss doesn't have 7 pokémon in Colloseum.

Idk, it would be nice if at the port, Michael battle Zook when his little sister (forgot her name) bumped into him instead of having discount Professor X uses his Alakazam to defeat him.

Oh yea, that would be nice to see!

Or imagine the ridiculous scene like Chobin on his mech Groudon.

Oh I see, Wes going back to being the bad guy. Agreed and yes, Chobin would be a hoot.

If I ever fanfic this you bet it's going to be posted here.

[Nym]

7 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Oh I see, Wes going back to being the bad guy. Agreed and yes, Chobin would be a hoot.

If I ever fanfic this you bet it's going to be posted here.

And they removed that because it was too dark... not a problem for the anime xD

Man I would love to see that

[Dragoncat]

@Nym How is that too dark? I mean...yeah, it's possibly sad and depressing, but not "too dark". 

It will be awhile if I ever do. I've got a few other projects. And I'll have to make the necessary OCs. Other ideas though: Michael and Jovi are actually half siblings, because neither look anything like their mom or each other, so the laws of genetics would say they have different fathers. Also, Rui still doesn't have any battling pokemon, but owns a chatot...and this chatot likes to imitate, very loudly, Wes' potty mouthed rants in the middle of the night or at the butt crack of dawn. Lol. I also think Prof. Krane might've been interested in Lily (Michael and Jovi's mom) at one point, but they don't look anything like him either, so obviously he never scored with her. And anyway, if he was the father of one of them, the game would've said it.

I might have to make a topic when I get closer to writing it to help catch some of these plot bunnies.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Dragoncat

[Nym]

19 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

@Nym How is that too dark? I mean...yeah, it's possibly sad and depressing, but not "too dark". 

It will be awhile if I ever do. I've got a few other projects. And I'll have to make the necessary OCs. Other ideas though: Michael and Jovi are actually half siblings, because neither look anything like their mom or each other, so the laws of genetics would say they have different fathers. Also, Rui still doesn't have any battling pokemon, but owns a chatot...and this chatot likes to imitate, and very loudly, Wes' potty mouthed rants in the middle of the night or at the butt crack of dawn. Lol. I also think Prof. Krane might've been interested in Lily (Michael and Jovi's mom) at one point, but they don't look anything like him either, so obviously he never scored with her. And anyway, if he was the father of one of them, the game would've said it.

I might have to make a topic when I get closer to writing it to help catch some of these plot bunnies.

It was dark for the kids. Don't look at me but that's what they said or something.

I see, but it's some interating concepts to say the least.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

Okay. Real shame actually, they're quite awesome.

I wonder how much they go for used? Can't be cheap I'd like to think.

I never finished Colosseum, got as far as The Under, and made it not even that far in XD as a kid. I still have XD, but not Colosseum. I do like Orre and both games though, they're quite distinct in being more of a traditional JRPG in plot and style, between no gyms/league, less side stuff to explore, a more fixed unit roster, and double battles as the standard.  I wouldn't mind another. If Switch GC VC becomes a thing, we need both games on Switch- no excuse to leave them out like the Stadiums were on Wii/U 64 VC.

 

Wes (Leo in Japan) was supposed to be villain originally? Interesting, he does look very different by Pokemon standards- better than Michael.

Although I never fleshed it out, I had a fangame idea that Wes rather than go rogue from Snagem, instead stays loyal to Cipher when Gonzap and the rest of Snagem decides to break away from from them. Doing so, Wes is promoted within Cipher, and he is then tasked to infiltrate incognito the Resistance in Orre opposed to Cipher domination. The method? Either he strolls into the Resistance an interested wayward traveler, or he fakes a resisting group which joins the greater Resistance.

At the time of the game's start, Cipher has all but conquered Orre- Agate alone is beyond their grasp. Realgam is their effort to build a new utopian city of the future, one which will elevate Orre from its backwater status to equality with the great regions (the main series ones). The Resistance is making an effort to expose the evil of Cipher and save Orre, and Michael joins this altruistically at roughly the same time Wes infiltrates a separate branch.

The game would have a dual narrative, alternating between Wes's perspective in one part of Orre, and Michael's in another. Eventually, Wes does betray, but being a badass changes his mind (or faked his betrayal- he'd be a free spirit concerned only with pursuing his own interests so it could go either way) and then saves the Resistance from complete defeat (Michael and the rest do their part too). Realgam becomes goes from being the crown jewel of Cipher's dominance, to a last bastion of their survival, where its integrated cyber network through all the buildings becomes an automated defense system the Resistance will find a challenge to get past. Citadark is a separate bastion of last resort tackled separately.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Sun and Moon is by far the best season of Pokemon anime so i don't think being "mature" is exactly what i wanted

 

Mind i never liked any of those romhacks like Reborn/Rejunevation etc as far as purely story goes. I feel like they missed out on what makes Pokemon such a fun games to play

[Dragoncat]

@Nym I can see their reasoning there I guess. Kids wouldn't like seeing a good guy turn bad.

@Interdimensional Observer Ah, fangames! If I could program I'd have a bunch of them. That's a neat concept too, although Wes/Rui and Michael don't have their adventures close enough to the same time. Michael isn't even born yet in Colosseum I don't think. I'm quite fond of my Wes = fusty old grandpa, stubborn as a mudbray idea myself...but where is Rui during all this? Remember, she was captured because she could see the shadow auras. It's why she met up with Wes in the first place and the only reason he was able to do all the snagging and purifying. He could snag before, but yeah. Without her, he most likely would never have a change of heart. It'd be...pretty much what you said, I'd assume.

Also I know his Japanese name is Leo. I poked around Bulbapedia and when I saw that the Colosseum manga starred a "Leo" I initially thought it had a different protagonist. Caught me completely off guard...too many Leos! At least two in FE alone, one is my OC made before Fates but that's beside the point. He's Wes to me and always will be. That way Rui can affectionately refer to him as "Wesley" and he probably hates it xD

As far as Wes' design goes...wtf is up with that white face line? It can't be a tattoo, can it? ...can it? And that visor...kinda meh. Michael has a design that looks more...idk, functional? I mean not even the Team Snagem people look anywhere near like that, or maybe I just don't remember...yeah, undercover blah blah blah, but still.

Hmmm. Is there a Michael in FE yet? Kinda surprising there's not afaik. For a common name though, it works.

I'll put this out there right now: I don't mind derailing my own thread with fanfic plans...it is related enough, but also discuss the possibility of a T rated anime installment.