Would YOU like to see a Second generation?

[Dandy Druid]

16 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah seriously. That's the thing that Awakening and Fates did fail at. The S support having them get married. Now THAT'S eloping. I get why Awakening did it because they decided that the Awakening kids being able to explain to their parents that they're their kids is to show them the ring, but still, it feels stupid since there are other ways to do so. 

Could have the kids just indicate that the couple marries and has them in the future.

Ehh that also be weird. Having a random stranger come up to you and your significant other and be like, hey, you'll guys will be married and give birth to me sounds unbelievable. Unless Lucina is there with them to confirm it. 

Wait nevermind that does work. Lucina has to delegate though.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Dandy Druid said:

Ehh that also be weird. Having a random stranger come up to you and your significant other and be like, hey, you'll guys will be married and give birth to me sounds unbelievable. Unless Lucina is there with them to confirm it. 

Wait nevermind that does work. Lucina has to delegate though.

Lucina being the sole person from the future and all would be the person to confirm it. The only one that she ever shows up for a 2nd Gen is Owain's. Also, since everyone in the army would become aware that time travel exists and Lucina is from the future, any couples or eventual couples would wonder if there's a chance they have a kid in the future, and bam, kid shows up. 

Although... there is one thing that Awakening failed it. Though the kids are connected to the story, no one made any effort to try and come to help avert the apocalypse. Laurent even says that he came in 3 years before Lucina arrived, meaning that he had 3 years to do something, yet he makes no move. The only one that makes it understandable on why he made no move is Gerome, who made it clear that he was already accepting that the future is lost and only wanted to set the wyverns free in the past, so he had no desire to try anything. 

The lack of explanation on their part, and Cynthia for some reason being fooled into believing someone to be Chrom despite how she could potentially be his daughter also kind of ends up being stupid. The writers didn't even try to make an explanation on why they did it, but we do understand that they can't do anything because having the girls marry and then getting their kid is entirely optional. But even then, it feels really bad that they didn't try to do anything.

[Dandy Druid]

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Lucina being the sole person from the future and all would be the person to confirm it. The only one that she ever shows up for a 2nd Gen is Owain's. Also, since everyone in the army would become aware that time travel exists and Lucina is from the future, any couples or eventual couples would wonder if there's a chance they have a kid in the future, and bam, kid shows up. 

Although... there is one thing that Awakening failed it. Though the kids are connected to the story, no one made any effort to try and come to help avert the apocalypse. Laurent even says that he came in 3 years before Lucina arrived, meaning that he had 3 years to do something, yet he makes no move. The only one that makes it understandable on why he made no move is Gerome, who made it clear that he was already accepting that the future is lost and only wanted to set the wyverns free in the past, so he had no desire to try anything. 

The lack of explanation on their part, and Cynthia for some reason being fooled into believing someone to be Chrom despite how she could potentially be his daughter also kind of ends up being stupid. The writers didn't even try to make an explanation on why they did it, but we do understand that they can't do anything because having the girls marry and then getting their kid is entirely optional. But even then, it feels really bad that they didn't try to do anything.

oh yeah. Laurent was just there... Maybe he's one of the types that frowns upon going to the past in fear of changing the future, but I mean, he had pretty good reason to change it. WTF was he thinking.

Yep.... Awakening gave the kids agency, but didn't properly employ said agency. They went to the past, and... did their own things.

[omegaxis1]

21 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

oh yeah. Laurent was just there... Maybe he's one of the types that frowns upon going to the past in fear of changing the future, but I mean, he had pretty good reason to change it. WTF was he thinking.

Yep.... Awakening gave the kids agency, but didn't properly employ said agency. They went to the past, and... did their own things.

Yeah, that's exactly what's been bugging me. Like, I get it, because all the other Awakening kids were entirely optional, as Chrom is the ONLY one to really get married, Lucina has to be the truest canon child. So they cannot have them make any attempts to change the past, lest plotholes exist from their actions when they aren't paired or such. However, when they exist, the writers could at the very least have TRIED to make sense why they did nothing. 

Or maybe say they were doing something that is to avert crisis on the past. The children that were in Valm were Gerome, Severa, Inigo, Cynthia, and Owain. Ylisse had the rest of them. Could have had it that Severa, Owain, and Inigo were actually trying to get the Gemstones from there, being Azure and Vert. However, the issue was how Walhart was uniting the place, so they probably had to worry about picking a fight with the army, so they rather tried to lay low. Gerome was trying to free the wyverns. Cynthia we could actually explain that she experienced a shock from traveling through time, and her memories became muddled. Like not erased like Morgan, but for the most part, she was confused about everything, so that could explain how she got fooled by the guy posing as Chrom.

[Dandy Druid]

15 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah, that's exactly what's been bugging me. Like, I get it, because all the other Awakening kids were entirely optional, as Chrom is the ONLY one to really get married, Lucina has to be the truest canon child. So they cannot have them make any attempts to change the past, lest plotholes exist from their actions when they aren't paired or such. However, when they exist, the writers could at the very least have TRIED to make sense why they did nothing. 

Or maybe say they were doing something that is to avert crisis on the past. The children that were in Valm were Gerome, Severa, Inigo, Cynthia, and Owain. Ylisse had the rest of them. Could have had it that Severa, Owain, and Inigo were actually trying to get the Gemstones from there, being Azure and Vert. However, the issue was how Walhart was uniting the place, so they probably had to worry about picking a fight with the army, so they rather tried to lay low. Gerome was trying to free the wyverns. Cynthia we could actually explain that she experienced a shock from traveling through time, and her memories became muddled. Like not erased like Morgan, but for the most part, she was confused about everything, so that could explain how she got fooled by the guy posing as Chrom.

Cynthia's situation was always weird to me if she was his daughter. There were probably some paintings that she would've seen since he's royalty and all. Even then, non-Chrom Cynthia should've known better not to be fooled, but oh well.

Omg, this is just making me realize how dumb some of the second gen kids are. Chrom should've enacted some education reform.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

Cynthia's situation was always weird to me if she was his daughter. There were probably some paintings that she would've seen since he's royalty and all. Even then, non-Chrom Cynthia should've known better not to be fooled, but oh well.

Omg, this is just making me realize how dumb some of the second gen kids are. Chrom should've enacted some education reform.

How much education do you think is possible in an apocalyptic world? Remember, these kids lived the majority of their lives in a world that went to hell. Most people would have gone insane, but these kids managed to retain some sanity, by forging and embracing a facade, that being their quirks. Owain and Cynthia acting like heroes of justice, Inigo being a flirt and never stopping his smile, etc. These quirks they have might have been something that was made by their lives with their parents, but they had to completely embrace that part of themselves to remain sane in the hell they lived in. 

If they don't, then they would lose hope, as would the rest of the people fighting against Grima. To keep morales high, they had to embrace their facades, their masks. But in high emotional moments, we do see their masks cracking at times. 

[Greencapps]

No, Tell a story that doesn't require everyone to get together for once.

I think 13 and 14 should have been separate choices because while they are mechanically the same it works way better I need 13 because of how they've are justified in the story. For me it would be 4 or 13 cause story wise they work. Ended up choosing 4 cecause 14 was wrapped up with 13.

I chose no cause I assume you're talking about 16 but in general I don't mind child units. And to address the complaint that they break 13 and 14 in half I personally think that's part of the charm of 13. Building monster units was my favorite part of that game. As for 14 I haven't played it enough to give a real opinion.

[MrRedCR]

How did the overall fanbase outside of the more hardcore section react to children in FE14? Perhaps this is anecdotal, but the people that I talked to who had only played Awakening prior to Fates did not seem to care for children in Fates even though they got really into how much you could customize them in Awakening. I'm wondering if IS is considering making children a "once in a while" mechanic, but perhaps that's just my bias speaking. Unless a second generation is handled like FE4, I don't want to see it come back for a while.

As for the difference between children in FE13 and FE14, it seems like the tone of the story and game structure lent itself better to children in FE13 than in FE14. Although time travel is a contrived explanation in which its inclusion is opening a can of worms story-wise 99% of the time, the emphasis on customization in Awakening made children feel like more of a natural fit. In FE14, however, especially Conquest, there is nowhere near as much customization, as well as significantly less of an opportunity to grind (heck, you straight up could not grind in Conquest, so you have less time to get the skills that you want to pass down).

Edited October 16, 2017 by MrRedCR

[Dandy Druid]

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

How much education do you think is possible in an apocalyptic world? Remember, these kids lived the majority of their lives in a world that went to hell. Most people would have gone insane, but these kids managed to retain some sanity, by forging and embracing a facade, that being their quirks. Owain and Cynthia acting like heroes of justice, Inigo being a flirt and never stopping his smile, etc. These quirks they have might have been something that was made by their lives with their parents, but they had to completely embrace that part of themselves to remain sane in the hell they lived in. 

If they don't, then they would lose hope, as would the rest of the people fighting against Grima. To keep morales high, they had to embrace their facades, their masks. But in high emotional moments, we do see their masks cracking at times. 

I was joking, but it's my fault that you misunderstood, since our prior conversation wasn't lighthearted.

[YingofDarkness]

I would like it if IS gave us a break from child units for a bit. I was never a big fan of them in Awakening, and didn't even bother to try to collect them in Fates. Just a few in the Conquest route just to use their maps as grinding areas for some of my under leveled units. It made the games less fun for me, but if they bring it back I'd prefer if they did it like Awakening or Genealogy where the kids had some importance to the story.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Dandy Druid said:

I was joking, but it's my fault that you misunderstood, since our prior conversation wasn't lighthearted.

My bad. XD

But seriously though, the quirks that they have and retained make sense when you realize that they HAVE to use it just to keep themselves from going insane. It's essentially their coping method. 

One thing I absolutely love is how so many people are complaining that the poll is stupid for putting Awakening and Fates in the same section.

[Shadow Mir]

I didn't say this earlier, but I voted for the 3DS games because they had the better implementation from a gameplay perspective. Of course, considering that their "competition" is Genealogy, that isn't saying much.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Greencapps]

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

One thing I absolutely love is how so many people are complaining that the poll is stupid for putting Awakening and Fates in the same section.

Why? 

Also I think a big factor into the likability of the Fates kids stems from age. Most of Awakening's kids were late teens/early twenties. While Fates' kids were extremely young looking and, from the little I messed with them, kinda acted that way. The older Awakening characters are way more compelling to me simply because of them being older, and make a hell of a lot more sence in a war setting than the Fates kids. Perhaps that's just me but I think it added to the meh-mess of the Fates children.

[Zasplach]

In terms of my opinion, I would prefer IS to just take a break from the whole child thing.  I find grinding supports just to generate children that I generally don't use to be a tedious endeavor and generally damaging to a strong, streamlined narrative.  I also preferred the way FE4 handled the 2 generations, a second group of characters taking over the narrative and having their own story resonates better with me than new charters suddenly joining what is currently happening in the narrative.  I know a change can be tricky, but it doesn't require a literal barbecue; sometimes you lose and you have to bide your time to regroup, that would be something different at least.

But, in terms what IS is actually going to do; I suspect that their will be children.  My friends don't play FE independent of me encouraging them to do so, so I can't say for certain, but data and slight anecdotal evidence, like chitchat with checkout people at the places I buy new games, would suggest to me that people really like the child/marriage mechanic, for whatever reason.  The highest selling FE games, by a lot, have been Awakening and Fates, plan and simple and while SOV seems to have done fine in terms of their expectations, it just hasn't come close to Fates' and Awakenings' sales.  And I understand all of the caveats that go with SOV, like it's a remake and such, but numbers don't lie and sales are a powerful motivator for any capitalistic endeavor.    

[omegaxis1]

7 hours ago, Greencapps said:

Why? 

Also I think a big factor into the likability of the Fates kids stems from age. Most of Awakening's kids were late teens/early twenties. While Fates' kids were extremely young looking and, from the little I messed with them, kinda acted that way. The older Awakening characters are way more compelling to me simply because of them being older, and make a hell of a lot more sence in a war setting than the Fates kids. Perhaps that's just me but I think it added to the meh-mess of the Fates children.

Because it's true. The fact that we had to have Fates and Awakening be in the same category on this poll on which series did the kids right is bad, and it confuses this guy actually set the poll up this way. 

Yeah, when you look at Kana, you know that you're sending in an underaged kid into the battlefield, even worse than sending in Hayate or Ricken. Some of the Awakening kids also had a young look to them still, like Cynthia, Nah, or Morgan. Morgan is actually said to be the youngest of the group in fact. But even then, it felt like they were at a good enough age to really fight among the rest of the warriors. Whereas Fates did not for some of them.

[ElectiveToast]

My take on this: 

 

1. I think second gen units should have a break, but if IS finds an original and convincing way to implement breeding into FE16, then I say more power to them. 

2. This seems to be a question of personal preference as opposed to practical reasoning, so I'll give my personal preference on this. Tragedy is simply not my cup of tea, and it's a huge middle finger to build up an army, have it destroyed, and then start out with another army of freshlings. I'm sure someone out there enjoys that, but not me. Alllowing children  to fight side-by-side with their parents gives off a nice family vibe, and makes for some juicy support convos. Despite my preference, I'm open to anyone who would care to explain to me why FE4 did it better. 

 

3. You mean children as a plot device? Sure, why not. 

 

[Greencapps]

6 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Because it's true. The fact that we had to have Fates and Awakening be in the same category on this poll on which series did the kids right is bad, and it confuses this guy actually set the poll up this way. 

Yeah, when you look at Kana, you know that you're sending in an underaged kid into the battlefield, even worse than sending in Hayate or Ricken. Some of the Awakening kids also had a young look to them still, like Cynthia, Nah, or Morgan. Morgan is actually said to be the youngest of the group in fact. But even then, it felt like they were at a good enough age to really fight among the rest of the warriors. Whereas Fates did not for some of them.

1. Ok. I thought you were laughing at the people complaining cause you think they're wrong. Seems this was a simple misunderstanding.

2. Morgan at least felt competent and Cynthia had been fighting with bandits for months at the time you find her. Nah looks older than her mom and acts accordingly. While Kana is a literal toddler. I guess I should give Fates some credit as a couple of the kids were about the same age as most of the Awakening kids but it did feel heavily swayed to the younger side.

In addition the Awakening kids were raised to fight, were fighting to survive in their future, came back to fight, were fighting long before the Shepherds ever found them, and probably would have continued to do so with or without them. The Fates kids on the other hand grew up isolated from the rest of the world, learned from what they taught themselves and maybe the occasional visit from mom and dad, and excluding some they had never been in the outside world and had never fought real opponents before the battle they are recruited in. Heck some of them are forced into war by their parents instead of it being of their own volition like most. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Greencapps

[omegaxis1]

29 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

1. Ok. I thought you were laughing at the people complaining cause you think they're wrong. Seems this was a simple misunderstanding.

2. Morgan at least felt competent and Cynthia had been fighting with bandits for months at the time you find her. Nah looks older than her mom and acts accordingly. While Kana is a literal toddler. I guess I should give Fates some credit as a couple of the kids were about the same age as most of the Awakening kids but it did feel heavily swayed to the younger side.

In addition the Awakening kids were raised to fight, were fighting to survive in their future, came back to fight, were fighting long before the Shepherds ever found them, and probably would have continued to do so with or without them. The Fates kids on the other hand grew up isolated from the rest of the world, learned from what they taught themselves and maybe the occasional visit from mom and dad, and excluding some they had never been in the outside world and had never fought real opponents before the battle they are recruited in. Heck some of them are forced into war by their parents instead of it being of their own volition like most. 

1) Ah, my bad. When I said that I love that they complained about it, I actually meant it. But I get how that usually comes off as sarcastic. 

2) Honestly, it makes sense why they would be very competent. In all honesty, though the game has the story imply the kids are still weaker than their parents, I have reason to believe that the kids were in fact stronger than their parents originally, but weakened after going back in time. I don't mean jumping worlds made them weaker, but the change in environment. 

Growing up in a world where every day is a struggle to merely survive against the Risen that have to be very powerful if they can overwhelm trained soldiers easily, people grow absurdly strong in a short time, and the Awakening kids lived in that world for most their lives. However, changing the environment from the apocalyptic one to a more peaceful one, that instinct they've honed through those years, the taste of peace where they can fully relax and enjoy themselves a bit more, it dulls that instinct more, make them more aware of their fighting rather than fighting using instinct, which slows their own reflexes and skill. 

[NekoKnight]

I said no to the poll if you mean child characters plucked from the future.

I think more than the child units themselves, the effect it has on supports is more troubling (though I could talk at length for how nightmarish the deeprealms are). In Awakening and Fates, you were required to have most first gen females support with most first gen males for gameplay diversity, which created a lot of incompatible pairings, out-of-nowhere romances, and redundancy. It also probably contributed to the amount of character gimmicks so writers could resort to "Trope A meets Trope B" supports.

If we were to have a second generation, I'd want it to be after a time skip, with the cast composed of children, aged 1st gens and brand new characters who joined the army later. Characters would have limited support pools to focus on character development over gameplay. It would be much more satisfying to see how 1st gen characters changed over the years rather than seeing some 17 year olds matured into wizened parents overnight.

 

[Ae†her]

1. Yes

2. FE 4, Yes

3. No.

[Green Tees]

Personally I'd rather see two avatar units, one male and female (or two of the same gender) only because I'd want to marry who I like the most. By that I mean make meta children.

Also, I feel that Awakening handled children WAY better than Fates considering in Fates, children made no impact. While Geneology handled children better, I'd love to see something of a combination of the two (specifically, no generation wipe.)

[EricaofRenais]

I am sick of child units and the ones from Fates were horridly shoe horned in to the game.  The FE games are set in war and the units are fighting not thinking about having kids.  The only game where it worked was FE 4 because of the time skip.

[Gebby]

FE4, obviously. Time travel is just lazy and the deep realms...laughably bad.

But yeah, FE4 did it right.

[Dracologist]

I'd prefer to have epilogue marriages. Maybe have the S support determine who marries who in the epilogue.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Dracologist

[19177336292694629610174937]

I think having the children for the second act of the game isn’t too bad. It worked well for FE 4, maybe they could try to replicate what they did before.

 

Let's just hope we get anymore Outrealms Bollucks.