How do you rank the FE stories from best to worst?

[eclipse]

Omitted: Thracia, because I'm going to need way too much time to make sense of everything.

From worst to best:

1. Revelation - The first part was really neat, but was completely and utterly ripped up by the second part.  It's pretty telling when a third of the game completely shits on the other two-thirds.  All to make Corrin look good.  Sheesh.  This is memorable in the worst way possible.

2. Binding Blade/Sacred Stones - Between both games, the only character that gets any emotional response out of me is L'Arachel, and that's because I wanted to stuff a rag in her mouth.  It's bad when you have characters and supports, and I don't remember much about them.  Or the story in general.  I guess Ephraim!Lyon was cool for not being whiny.

3. Awakening - If it wasn't for the last two-thirds of the game, this would be way higher.  The first part builds beautifully, and then everything goes downhill.  Warriors gave some much-needed characterization to certain members of the cast (really).

4. Conquest - You were expecting this at the bottom?  The conflict is handled really badly, there's hints of ass-pulls, and I can't even understand Iago's motivation half the time.  I'd rather take consistently head-scratching over "we're going to give you some neat story then spit on its corpse".

5. Holy War - There's some really nice things, like the circumstances behind Ayra's recruitment (which is one of the better story/gameplay things IMO).  And then there's Sigurd's "romance" with Deirdre, which is about as interesting as Chrom x Maiden.  Time actually passes between the maps, which is something I'd like to see in the future.  However, that's about all I remember.

6. Birthright - It's a relatively tame story, with the trainwreck known as Xander keeping it down here. . .and the general premise of siding with some guys you talked to for a bit over the family that raised you.

7. Radiant Dawn - Take a character loaded with too many things, throw in some really stupid plot devices, and then deny the group with the most potential their screen-time, and you get this game.  IMO this should've been a trilogy, with part 1 being its own game, and the rest being the final game.  Actually, it's thanks to Path of Radiance that this game isn't on the same level as Revelation.

8. Blazing Sword - Hardly perfect, but I actually cared about the characters thanks to their supports.  I still haven't forgiven Ninian for being a terrible character.  Some things felt contrived for the sake FE6, like the sudden appearance of Karla.

9. Shadows of Valentia - This game had a lot of ambition, and it half-worked.  The story trips and falls all over the place.  The non-Alm/Celica characters do a lot to redeem it.  I really wish Alm was a Rigelian general, and Celica was the lost princess of Zofia.  It would've been a really neat two-sided perspective.  It's thanks to the DLC that this game is ranked as high as it is, because it gives a good amount of insight into Zofia pre-war.

10. Path of Radiance - Ike did shit, and Ike had to deal with the consequences.  While I don't agree with how he was handled early-on, it somehow worked out.

11. Archanea - I'm lumping both games into this, because the second game makes a lot more sense with the first.  Though the first game didn't go into the life stories of the characters, I felt it didn't need to, because I got all of the characterization I wanted out of their death lines.  The first game is a pretty basic story about a prince in exile retaking his kingdom and saving the world.  The second game is almost the same, except some of those enemies once stood beside Mar-Mar.  However, what really made Shadow Dragon good for me, IMO, was that the story progressed despite your choices.  Did you miss out on the spheres?  Sucks, but you can still progress.  Did you murder Tiki, as well?  The game will redirect you accordingly.  In the end, you, the player, will decide how Marth's story goes - and that, IMO, is what makes Archanea so cool.

We don't talk about the assassins in New Mystery.

EDIT: I KNEW I WAS FORGETTING A GAME!

Edited November 2, 2017 by eclipse

[Punished Dayni]

How I'd rank the stories I've played:

Spoiler

Thracia 776: The game with the smallest conflict has my favourite story. I know, right? Good things and all that. 

Genealogy of the Holy War:

 

 

Blazing Sword:

Gaiden/SoV:

The Sacred Stones: 

 

Dark Dragon and Sword of Light/Mystery of the Emblem/Shadow Dragon:

Mystery of the Emblem/New Mystery of the Emblem:

Binding Blade: So Roy's kinda too perfect in story for his own good imo. That's not why this title is so low though. I'm one of the few people who thinks the villains are a disappointment here. From the .

Awakening: As I haven't played it in a while, I think I might have to agree with everyone that Awakening isn't the best. It's a shame that the arcs just weren't better connected to each other. It's not impossible to do so, right? Then again, this game had a lot on its plate (and didn't have 3 routes to split and waste that potential. Zing!). It's not surprising that it wasn't written as well as might have been hoped. Gangrel's needs some background expansion. If the Valm arc stays, it needs to actually feel like the Valmese army is making a serious invasion attempt and that more's at stake than two gems. The Grimleal need a total rewrite to actually matter. Chrom and Robin can be written to better fit the groove of the new story. And I still don't know if the future timeline can even be relevant in a new version. I might have had fun, but it needs a lot of fixing for the story to hold sadly.
I might also pretend the spotpass units just aren't canon anyway, which I think holds up by how rushed they seem to have been put in.

Birthright: So it's generic. It plays up so many of the usual FE cliches you could probably put the points for Birthright in as an answer to a madlibs page. It takes a surprising amount of time just strolling around in enemy territory learning about the place, getting into unconnected fights and not feeling like you're getting somewhere. Chapter 13's cutscene REALLY shouldn't have happened (and I just wish the game accounted for if Corrin was married before it). Leo's teleportation tome is a massive copout in it's own right. Garon the magic dragon is out of Valla nowhere. But I must admit it still feels like the bones hold together better than the other routes. It does still feel like the party is moving forward (even if forward seems like they're climbing off the beaten path). It at least has some guts to let people on your side die and stay that way (Somehow Revelation fails on that one), making it have more consequence. It also doesn't have a royal so contradictory that you get the sense that he'd be the first revealed to have a horrible dark side if he were a celebrity in reality.

Conquest: For me, a concept can be really cool. Conquest just had to bungle the execution. It starts off alright I guess (there are solid moments and I think a good story just needed to polish up the writing, probably change how Azura joins and push the Sevenfold sanctuary to later or out), but then we get to Chapter 14, and the story piles on the stupid for two chapters so high that it's pretty much doomed and the filler of the next 6 chapters (And their terrible, gimmick obsessed gameplay and often something bad in the story) does not help. Then we get the confrontations with the siblings, a bright spot for gameplay and story overall. AND THEN THE ENDING HAPPENS. Treason is not awful in the story (but I hate the map so much it might have affected my vision for the whole thing), though it feels like it rushed the removal of these villains. Gooron was always stupid, but it could have been worse. Then Betrayal shows up, kills you only not and you save his soul and Pineapple thanks you like Corrin always gets thanks. Then the Hoshidans just straight up forgive you and your army after all the crap that was pulled while the Nohrians just act like all the suppression was OK. Keep in mind, to save both nations, you go tearing through one country and silencing (sorry "disarming") sedition in the other. I really don't like how Conquest's story is overall.

Revelation: Let's be real, it's a dumpster fire. It ended up having to try to tie up two games worth of loose ends and manages not to do that, partly because of DLC, partly because of the story itself faffing about for its second half and backloading the explanation. I've already made an extensive post explaining why the villain sucks, but it also has the issue of most of the cast being a mite quick to trust Corrin with all this despite how mad they were for not being chosen before by them the bachelor(ette). It then has to rush recruit everyone in the first half, making it not matter as much as it should. Also, it purports itself to be bringing the whole army together, but it kills off Scarlet and then makes you use about 10 units a map, wasting the sandbox potential it had. While Lilith (who dies in the other routes) is still around, holding the fort unlike the other two routes. Also, Anankos (a supposed GOD) kills you only not (See? Fates mirrors itself after all! There was some grand plan! /s). If I were to rewrite the whole thing, it'd essentially have a 3-party split made up of a Nohrian, Hoshidan and a Noble faction (which would have all the siblings) each doing their own thing, drop Valla and start using the rest of the world that's there and ignored. I could probably mention a dozen other problems easily. It is Revelation after all.

Fates: Overall, there's a lot of issues with its writing that don't seem bound to one route. Whether it's how so much of the villains show no depth (a far cry from the series overall), Corrin's continuous undeserved hero worship (from getting a legendary sword that flies into their hand to convince the nobles of both kingdoms to side together far to easily) to the Valla curse, the actual choices made end up hurting it overall. Fates was fated to flounder with all the intervention that was made (never mind Treehouse making things more convoluted. Give us 8-4 any day)

Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn: Unrateable. Not played them yet. 0/10 for 0 seconds worth of experience.

Edit: Apologies. Apparently Ctrl + Enter posts the post. WHY? Need to do the whole thing again

Edited November 2, 2017 by Dayni

[Sunwoo]

I haven't played all of the games, so even though I know what the story is about I'm not going to rank them out of fairness. While I have gotten halfway through Echoes, I am not anywhere near done with that game so I won't rank that either. From worst to best:

Fates (Conquest ≤ Revelation < Birthright): As in, Birthright is the best of the three. That said, none of them are really all that great. Interesting premise ... but if you can't do anything right with an interesting premise, you don't get points for it. Conquest is at the absolute bottom because I have never seen any story twist upon itself so much to try to absolve the protagonist of any wrongdoing -- a protagonist who is obviously doing things that are not smart or selfless or even necessary, and actually proves themselves to be more whiny and selfish and weak-willed than brave or noble. What the fuck is Corrin, even? Revelation is slightly better, but it's still a failure at replicating Radiant Dawn. Birthright was better than the other two by quite a bit ... but it's still at the bottom.

Awakening: The first part of Awakening was great, wish we had more like it. The final part was merely okay, although I wish it didn't become so Robin-centric or was a bit longer and better thought out. What the actual fuck is the part two, though? The story becomes such a slog after chapter 13, and whenever I'm playing through the Valm arc I just want it to fucking end already. Instead of putting in part two, they should've just expanded on Plegia. This would be higher up if it weren't for part 2 dragging it down and part 3 being just eh.

Blazing Sword: Much as I liked this game, its story really isn't that great. Lyn's mode is sort of inconsequential to the whole thing and is literally tutorial mode. Eliwood going to find his missing father and Hector going to support him was a good start, but things just got really convoluted later on. Again, I don't think it's that bad, but the story just ... is not one of its strongest parts.

Shadow Dragon: I found it kind of boring, mostly because when I first played SD I was so used to support conversations and other characters talking and the lack of rescue was a fucking pain, but in terms of story it was simple and straightforward. Can't argue with that.

Sacred Stones: A bit on the short side, but it makes more sense than Blazing Sword while being more interesting than Shadow Dragon. I liked Eirika's story, and thought that she was a naive protagonist done right. Her and Ephraim's relationship with Lyon makes Sacred Stones kind of unique. Aside from FE3/12 (which I haven't played), I think this is the only other game where a close companion of the protagonists is a major villain. Also, considering that FE has pulled off some bullshit resurrection themes in some of its games, I do like the idea of a mortal trying to do that and completely fucking things over. Really shows that trying to violate the natural laws just messes things up. What kind of hurts Sacred Stones is the lack of a real backstory. So ... nothing interesting happened in this continent for 800 years? Why don't we even know the names of all the past heroes?

Binding Blade: Binding Blade was a mostly cohesive plot, kind of simple but more intriguing than Shadow Dragon. I can't really complain about anything regarding the story, and Roy is a good protagonist.

Radiant Dawn: The story was ambitious, like Fates, and not the most coherent, but I think they pulled it off decently enough. It helps that it had a prequel to make us care about most of the characters. More importantly, I think Radiant Dawn touched upon a lot of things that I can't really foresee in future FE games. Micaiah in part 3 is what Nohr!Corrin should have been: someone who cares deeply for her country to the point where she realizes that others may remember her unkindly, but it doesn't matter as long as she can protect her people. Micaiah doesn't whine about how Crimea or Begnion may hate her, she's fine with being as unpopular as Ashnard if it means Daein will survive. My favorite theme has to be in part 4, though, where the game just hammers in how much history can be twisted from the truth -- the winners write history. Dheginsea and Sephiran were great and interesting villains. Even Ashera and Yune had quite a bit of depth. I also like how RD's deities were actual gods instead of just super powerful dragons. Also, all of the conflicts that happened in PoR and RD happened because of people. Yes, Sephiran was manipulating everyone behind the scenes, but Sephiran isn't a god. And his decision to manipulate people to bring the world about to the end ... were caused by people being people. RD's main faults are not characterizing the Dawn Brigade and being a bit clunky near the end, though.

Path of Radiance: Take everything I liked about RD in general and apply it to PoR, and this is why it's on the top. The story is a lot simpler than RD's, which works out in its favor, and there is clear backstory and world building in both PoR and RD that gives it so much more life. The themes of the game were well-handled, and it did a good job of making me care about the characters, and seeing them as more than just tropes.

[Jingle Jangle]

21 hours ago, Icelerate said:

I think Radiant Dawn had the most different types of villains and protagonists. There is Jarrod who is a loyal soldier but brutal sadist. Then there is Ludveck who is a manipulative racist/nationalist individual. The Begnion senators had some depth to them as well. There was Lekain who is manipulative, power hungry and self-righteous. Hetzel who knows what he's doing is wrong but is too cowardly to oppose Lekain. Valtome who is narcissistic and foolish (basically a dumb version of Lekain). Admittedly, Numida was quite generic from what I recall. Then there is the funny Oliver who doesn't really have a sense of right and wrong but only cares about the herons and beauty regardless of whether he is doing the right thing or the wrong thing. Then there is Izuka who is simply a mad scientist. There are sympathetic villains like the Black Knight who is basically what Soren would have been if Ike were Sephiran. Levail was a more likeable camus compared to other camus archetype characters due to the fact the guy he was following, Zelgius, was more honourable than most other villains. Then there is Sephiran who was genuinely kind but ended up depressed due to the state of the world and wanted Ashera to pass her judgement. Then there is Deghinsea who can be debated to not be a villain, due to the fact he was simply fulfilling a promise made to the goddess and tried his very best to prevent war.   

• For Jarrod while he is in a tough situation, I find him blurred with other villains in the game due to his color scheme.
• Ludveck was a decent villain, but nothing special.
• Hetzel as I said, one of the more diverse villains from the game, but lacks presence in the story.
• Valtome was a rich prick, and nothing else
• Numida was very generic, the memorable thing about him was his Hitler stache.
• Oliver was different, that being stand up against the other senators to protect the Herons 
• Izuka another evil wizard in a series that has many.
• My problem with the  Black Knight is the he feels like a different character for the last game. For being like Darth Vader in PoR that wishes to fight the strongest, to Micaiah's protector. And then dies with a sympatic ending despite all the suffering he cause to Ike's family, Killing Greil and threatening to torture Mist. It just didn't add up for me.
• Levail did nothing for me, just as a yes man for Zelgius that didn't care that most of the continent inhabitants had been turned into stone. Only to impress his boss.
• Sephiran was very difficult for me to understand due to having very specific requirements to unlock. More difficult than any other event in the series. So I feel cheated out in terms of explanations.
• Deghinsea was pretty cool, yet again majority of his appearance is at the end of the game. I prefer my villains to  have more presence in the story.

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Jingle Jangle

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Jingle Jangle said:

• Izuka another evil wizrard in a series that has many.

I think you mean Hojo. The guy looks and acts just like Hojo from FFVII.

[Interdimensional Observer]

26 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I think you mean Hojo. The guy looks and acts just like Hojo from FFVII.

Hojo is honestly better though, since he feigns incompetency, is creepy, and is implied to be

Spoiler

Sephiroth's father.

He also remind me of Advance Wars: Days of Ruin/Dark Conflict's Caulder/Stolos. Minus the broken CO Zone and Ashnard-esque battle theme.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Sephiran was very difficult for me to understand due to having very specific requirements to unlock. More difficult than any other event in the series. So I feel cheated out in terms of explanations.

Well yeah he is really well hidden, but you don't need to unlock him to understand him. All those Tower of Guidance memories happen regardless barring the Ike-related one. If you can comprehend those memories and they make you empathize (just understand his motivation, not necessarily agree) with him, you like him, if they don't, you don't like him, simple. I do, so I do like him. If you don't, well that's fine too.

[Slumber]

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Hojo is honestly better though, since he feigns incompetency, is creepy, and is implied to be

  Hide contents

Sephiroth's father.

 

I don't think there's any implication.

Spoiler

Lucrecia's story starts with her saying she was effectively Sephiroth's surrogate mother. It explicitly says, at the very least, that she gave birth to him. The rest of Vincent's backstory fills in that she was impregnated by Hojo, and that Hojo had been injecting Jenova cells into Lucrecia's womb during her pregnancy.

Anyway, yes. Izuka's kind of a low-rent Hojo. But the franchise has a bunch of these. Awakening alone has low-rent Joker and low-rent Jaffar(Aladdin Jaffar, not FE7 Jaffar).

Edited November 2, 2017 by Slumber

[Jingle Jangle]

40 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I think you mean Hojo. The guy looks and acts just like Hojo from FFVII.

Didn't occur to me when I was writing. But Hojo was better done in FF7 for influencing the backstory for many characters.

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well yeah he is really well hidden, but you don't need to unlock him to understand him. All those Tower of Guidance memories happen regardless barring the Ike-related one. If you can comprehend those memories and they make you empathize (just understand his motivation, not necessarily agree) with him, you like him, if they don't, you don't like him, simple. I do, so I do like him. If you don't, well that's fine too.

 From what I read Sephiran seems to have a lot going on about him. I just wish the game was more focused on Sephiran causing the current crisis, rather than he shows up right before Ashera.

[Interdimensional Observer]

17 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

 From what I read Sephiran seems to have a lot going on about him. I just wish the game was more focused on Sephiran causing the current crisis, rather than he shows up right before Ashera.

Well he did cause the current crisis, but I get what you mean. You didn't actively see him pulling the strings.

Sephiran's Reasons For Why He Does What He Does:

Spoiler

Pre-tragedy Lehran:

Wanted the Laguz and Beorc to live in harmony over 800 years ago so Ashera would let Yune back into her and the world would be a happy place.

He then marries his beloved Altina, thinking the new Kingdom of Begnion would be a Laguz-Beorc utopia.

 

Problems:

His child with Altina looks like a Beorc with no Laguz influences, their child is first Branded ever born. (This and the next couple things are mentioned in a second playthrough only Base Convo, so you probably unfortunately missed it.)

Fearing Laguz-Beorc intermixing would spell the death knell of the Laguz and start up anti-Beorc sentiments among the Laguz, Lehran is forced to abandon Altina and his child by faking his death, his child being declared a Beorc replacement husband's instead. Lives the rest of his years in Goldoa with Dheginsea, apart from his family.

The birth of his child also causes him to lose his Laguz powers, no flight, no Galdrar (the magic singing). He is still highly attuned with magic and by Ashera's blessings is immortal as Her highest servant, but the losses weigh on him. He attempts suicide several times because of this.

 

Over 150 years after the Kingdom of Begnion is formed, Laguz-Beorc strife ending in Laguz slavery and the birth of the Empire of Begnion leads him to despair and want to awaken Ashera to end the misery. Dheginsea restrains him from this and denies his request that Goldoa fight Begnion to oppose the slavery. Warring and tensions continue on and off war happens, Lehran is pained about not being able to do anything about it.

 

~20 years before PoR begins, Lehran leaves Goldoa and ends up in Begnion, somehow under disguise meeting Apostle Misaha. He reveals who he is to Misaha, and discovers the Brand she has, and that her Apostle powers of hearing Ashera's voice are owed to his marital union with Altina. Misaha then says she will reveal her Branded status to the world. This, combined with Misaha's Laguz Emancipation Act in all likelihood, makes Lehran optimistic about the future again.

 

But then he leaves Misaha, and shortly thereafter he finds out she has been assassinated by the Senate and that the blame has been put on the Herons, which Lehran is one of. The Herons being harmless creatures, Lehran cannot believe this, and in the stress from Misaha's death and the accusation on the Herons, reveals his wings and is beaten by Begnion peasants.

Getting to the Serenes Forest and seeing it on fire, Lehran sinks from hope to the depths of despair. Delusional in the Japanese version hearing voices, he snaps and concludes that Laguz and Beorc will never stop fighting each other. He thus thinks the world need not wait another ~200 years for Ashera to awake, he will save the L and B from themselves right now by awakening Ashera and having her cast her judgement.

 

Lehran loves the world, he loves it so much that it pains him to see all the needless suffering unfold. Why must it happen? Why must he bear witness to it? He wants to end the suffering via euthanasia basically. He wants to end the world's pain and his own. He admits he is weak, and that he is doing wrong. He doesn't want to petrify everyone, but all his prior hopes have been dashed before in dramatic fashion. So why hope for better?

 

Lehran's Plan:

Thus, Lehran finds Ashnard, gives him the Medallion, and possibly the Heron Lilina, thinking Ashnard will break the seal for him. He might have made the Blood Pact that got Ashnard to be King of Daein too, and gave him the Black Knight. In the meanwhile, he travels a sage and becomes a Begnion Duke named Sephiran for a position of power and influence he can manipulate countries from.

When Ashnard fails by Greil (stealing the Medallion) and later Ike, Lehran uses the corrupt Senate for Plan B. Daein is restored and put under Senate control to maximize chaos production.

Lehran didn't arrange everything in Tellius, but he provided the general framework. Things like Kurthnaga showing up in 3-13, Rafiel revealing the truth of the Serenes Massacre, and Micaiah leading Daein to liberation were all beyond his control. He did arrange for Sanaki's RD escape though and Elincia's PoR boat escape, both to maximize chaos production. He didn't care about the specifics of generating chaos, as long as the Medallion broke, he was happy.

 

[Jingle Jangle]

19 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well he did cause the current crisis, but I get what you mean. You didn't actively see him pulling the strings.

Sephiran's Reasons For Why He Does What He Does:

  Reveal hidden contents

Pre-tragedy Lehran:

Wanted the Laguz and Beorc to live in harmony over 800 years ago so Ashera would let Yune back into her and the world would be a happy place.

He then marries his beloved Altina, thinking the new Kingdom of Begnion would be a Laguz-Beorc utopia.

 

Problems:

His child with Altina looks like a Beorc with no Laguz influences, their child is first Branded ever born. (This and the next couple things are mentioned in a second playthrough only Base Convo, so you probably unfortunately missed it.)

Fearing Laguz-Beorc intermixing would spell the death knell of the Laguz and start up anti-Beorc sentiments among the Laguz, Lehran is forced to abandon Altina and his child by faking his death, his child being declared a Beorc replacement husband's instead. Lives the rest of his years in Goldoa with Dheginsea, apart from his family.

The birth of his child also causes him to lose his Laguz powers, no flight, no Galdrar (the magic singing). He is still highly attuned with magic and by Ashera's blessings is immortal as Her highest servant, but the losses weigh on him. He attempts suicide several times because of this.

 

Over 150 years after the Kingdom of Begnion is formed, Laguz-Beorc strife ending in Laguz slavery and the birth of the Empire of Begnion leads him to despair and want to awaken Ashera to end the misery. Dheginsea restrains him from this and denies his request that Goldoa fight Begnion to oppose the slavery. Warring and tensions continue on and off war happens, Lehran is pained about not being able to do anything about it.

 

~20 years before PoR begins, Lehran leaves Goldoa and ends up in Begnion, somehow under disguise meeting Apostle Misaha. He reveals who he is to Misaha, and discovers the Brand she has, and that her Apostle powers of hearing Ashera's voice are owed to his marital union with Altina. Misaha then says she will reveal her Branded status to the world. This, combined with Misaha's Laguz Emancipation Act in all likelihood, makes Lehran optimistic about the future again.

 

But then he leaves Misaha, and shortly thereafter he finds out she has been assassinated by the Senate and that the blame has been put on the Herons, which Lehran is one of. The Herons being harmless creatures, Lehran cannot believe this, and in the stress from Misaha's death and the accusation on the Herons, reveals his wings and is beaten by Begnion peasants.

Getting to the Serenes Forest and seeing it on fire, Lehran sinks from hope to the depths of despair. Delusional in the Japanese version hearing voices, he snaps and concludes that Laguz and Beorc will never stop fighting each other. He thus thinks the world need not wait another ~200 years for Ashera to awake, he will save the L and B from themselves right now by awakening Ashera and having her cast her judgement.

 

Lehran loves the world, he loves it so much that it pains him to see all the needless suffering unfold. Why must it happen? Why must he bear witness to it? He wants to end the suffering via euthanasia basically. He wants to end the world's pain and his own. He admits he is weak, and that he is doing wrong. He doesn't want to petrify everyone, but all his prior hopes have been dashed before in dramatic fashion. So why hope for better?

 

Lehran's Plan:

Thus, Lehran finds Ashnard, gives him the Medallion, and possibly the Heron Lilina, thinking Ashnard will break the seal for him. He might have made the Blood Pact that got Ashnard to be King of Daein too, and gave him the Black Knight. In the meanwhile, he travels a sage and becomes a Begnion Duke named Sephiran for a position of power and influence he can manipulate countries from.

When Ashnard fails by Greil (stealing the Medallion) and later Ike, Lehran uses the corrupt Senate for Plan B. Daein is restored and put under Senate control to maximize chaos production.

Lehran didn't arrange everything in Tellius, but he provided the general framework. Things like Kurthnaga showing up in 3-13, Rafiel revealing the truth of the Serenes Massacre, and Micaiah leading Daein to liberation were all beyond his control. He did arrange for Sanaki's RD escape though and Elincia's PoR boat escape, both to maximize chaos production. He didn't care about the specifics of generating chaos, as long as the Medallion broke, he was happy.

 

Wow, that changes my view on him, much better recap than the wiki. If there is a remake of Radiant Dawn, I wish it was more transparent with Sephiran's backstory.

[Slumber]

4 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Wow, that changes my view on him, much better recap than the wiki. If there is a remake of Radiant Dawn, I wish it was more transparent with Sephiran's backstory.

As nice of an idea it is to add new scenes and exposition to second playthroughs(Pelleas survivng the Blood Pacts, and IIIRC, the revelation that Soren is the son of Ashnard and Almehda are both second playthrough and beyond things), those kinds of incentives don't hold up for 40 hour RPGs.

It'd really add a lot to RD if those scenes were kept and put in a first playthrough.

[Jingle Jangle]

On 11/1/2017 at 7:05 PM, eclipse said:

 Archanea - I'm lumping both games into this, because the second game makes a lot more sense with the first.  Though the first game didn't go into the life stories of the characters, I felt it didn't need to, because I got all of the characterization I wanted out of their death lines.  The first game is a pretty basic story about a prince in exile retaking his kingdom and saving the world.  The second game is almost the same, except some of those enemies once stood beside Mar-Mar.  However, what really made Shadow Dragon good for me, IMO, was that the story progressed despite your choices.  Did you miss out on the spheres?  Sucks, but you can still progress.  Did you murder Tiki, as well?  The game will redirect you accordingly.  In the end, you, the player, will decide how Marth's story goes - and that, IMO, is what makes Archanea so cool.

We don't talk about the assassins in New Mystery.

Nice to see some appreciation for the Archanea game, and I thought that even with the assassins plot being filler, I considered it well handled.

54 minutes ago, Slumber said:

As nice of an idea it is to add new scenes and exposition to second playthroughs(Pelleas survivng the Blood Pacts, and IIIRC, the revelation that Soren is the son of Ashnard and Almehda are both second playthrough and beyond things), those kinds of incentives don't hold up for 40 hour RPGs.

It'd really add a lot to RD if those scenes were kept and put in a first playthrough.

Plus have that requirement being easier to complete  Why does Soren has to fight Micaiah on the other side of the map, then later fight Pelleas that is surrounded by enemies. Isn't the 2nd playthrough events has the hardest requirement to unlock in the series? 

[Interdimensional Observer]

Just now, Jingle Jangle said:

Plus have that requirement being easier to complete  Why does Soren has to fight Micaiah on the other side of the map, then later fight Pelleas that is surrounded by enemies. Isn't the 2nd playthrough events has the hardest requirement to unlock in the series? 

Actually, I don't believe that Soren has to fight Micaiah or Pelleas for the Almedha scene. I didn't go for either and I think I got them last ime. Just having Pelleas live and maybe the A Ike Supports in RD and PoR are necessary for unlocking it.

[Jingle Jangle]

14 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Actually, I don't believe that Soren has to fight Micaiah or Pelleas for the Almedha scene. I didn't go for either and I think I got them last ime. Just having Pelleas live and maybe the A Ike Supports in RD and PoR are necessary for unlocking it.

Then why does it say on the Radiant Dawn page this for Soren conservation with Almedha ?

[Interdimensional Observer]

9 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

hen why does it say on the Radiant Dawn page this for Soren conservation with Almedha ?

Possibly an error? That's been on SF since shortly after RD's release.

I haven't played RD in a while, so I'm not perfectly sure on the requirements. But I'm 99% sure I've never had Micaiah and Soren engage in battle in 3-7, and I've gotten the scene. I doubt I ever attacked Pelleas either.

[Icelerate]

If these requirements are correct, I'm not sure why those would trigger a conversation with Ike and Soren. Surely, Soren attacking Micaiah and Pelleas shouldn't improve his friendship with Ike to the extent that they can talk freely. They were already good friends and I'm not sure how attacking those two would improve their friendship even further. 

[Paper Jam]

I know that I've completed RD after having Soren fight Pelleas in 3-Endgame and not gotten the scene where Soren's ancestry is revealed. (My relationship diagram after that did not show Ashnard and Almedha having a child). So clearly having Soren fight Pelleas isn't a sufficient condition.

Quote

(hey, Marcus, I'm pretty sure you were in Arcadia. Apparently it wasn't important to tell us that, huh?!)

Nope. None of Eliwood's party even knew about Arcadia when they were in Nabata. Athos only told Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector about Arcadia later, and neither Marcus nor Merlinus was within earshot at the time.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Paper Jam

[Sweet_Basil]

Worst to best

Fates  (laughable stories on all 3)
Blazing Sword (good characters, but funny/dumb story)
Genealogy (such a boring generation 2, it loses its flame past part 1)
Radiant Dawn (part 1 = good, part 2 = great, part 3 = boring, part 4 = terrible)
Awakening (Good arcs 1 and 3 but all together just don't connect well)
Gaiden/SoV (I don't like the protagonists in the later arcs but the story works)
Binding Blade (dull protagonist is my only complaint)
FE1/3/Remakes (Simple but effective)
Thracia (The lore of Genealogy but with a better main character and story)
PoR (Great world building, nice story, great cast)
Sacred Stones (Loved the story, the villains and everything else except Ephraim)

[UNLEASH IT]

On 11/1/2017 at 2:07 PM, Jingle Jangle said:

From worse to best:

Radiant Dawn: Unpopular opinion, I find the game filled with poor characterizations to the previous cast (Astrid especially), bs plot objects, plot magic, mustache twirling villains or villains that somehow became sympathetic to a game that worn out it's welcome. 

The funny thing is, RD having a bad story wasn't an unpopular opinion up until recently. 

 

On 10/17/2017 at 12:59 PM, Thane said:

Awakening/Path of Radiance

Both have fairly unimpressive plots and generally unimpressive villains, but the casts are great and they have fantastic moments that make it easier to gloss over some of the more negative aspects. What Awakening lacks that Path of Radiance has, like worldbuilding, it makes up for in charm and generally more (as in numerous) likeable characters.

What exactly does charm mean in this context? When people say this, I'm legit confused as to what they're trying to describe

 

Well anyway, from worst to best:

Fates- What else needs to be said really. The very definition of trying to do too many things at once but failing in all of them

Echoes-Alm is ultracompetent while Celica is woefully incompetent, and I'm still wondering if Rudolf was some kind of fortune teller. A major problem I had with Alm's route was that, despite being part of a resistance faction that was said to be losing the Zofian civil war, Alm goes from one victory to another without any real setbacks to liberate Zofia then immediately marches on Rigel (again, without any setbacks) which was ridiculous. The worldbuilding was great though.

Blazing Sword- Now this game was a change of pace since the main antagonists in this game weren't an enemy nation, but rather a group of assassins. However, the story fell flat in many places. The arc explaining Zephiel's backstory was also decent, but ultimately everything related to Nergal and Ninian really pull the story down. Ninian's revival has to be one of the biggest asspulls in the series. 

Radiant Dawn- Part 1 and 2 are done quite well, but the story begins to fall apart halfway through part 3. Ike is actually a much worse protag than Micaiah in this game and seems to exist in RD just to fix everyone's problems and have praise heaped on him.

(Three way tie below)

Sacred Stones- Similar problems with Echoes, but with a much better antagonist and marginally better MC's

Awakening- The gangrel arc is writtten well but the Valm arc feels like filler and the last arc devolves into a clusterfuck.

Binding Blade/SD/NM- Nothing particularly remarkable, but nothing awful either. Binding Blade and FE3 might as well be the same game.

FE4- Now, I agree that Gen 1's plot was excellent and the worldbuilding is top-notch. But people seem to forget that Sigurd's tale is only half of the full story. Seliph's tale, on the other hand, is generally run of the mill while also suffering from the same problem that I mentioned about Alm's route. It might be an even worse case since Seliph is fighting against the entire Grannvale empire, which was strong enough to annex most of the countries in Jugdral. Hell, in the first chapter of the second gen, Seliph is able to liberate Isaach in Shannan's absence despite being caught off guard. 

PoR- Unremarkable plot, but great worldbuilding and character interactions. Ike's coming of age story is done well and the Black Knight actually worked better as a faceless plot device to show Ike's growth. Bonus points for properly conveying Daein's military advantage over Crimea and the GM's by forcing Ike to go to Begnion to request for aid instead having them immediately launch an offensive on Daein, like what was done in FE4 and Echoes. However, Ashnard, despite having a great concept, ultimately fails as a final villain since he's never seen by Ike until the end of the story.

Thracia 776- Unlike Seliph's Story and Alm's route,  FE5 makes it abundantly clear that Leif is in no position to take on Raydrik and the Lopto 'Sect in the beginning by throwing him in jail in chapter 4, then having most of the early game consist of chapters where Leif is either: 1) running away or 2) meeting up with other resistance groups (Dorias and Glade), then running away. Leif's character arc is done well and he also has to face consequences of his rash decision making, unlike many other lords. Finally, it went into more detail about the Child Hunts, something which I found wasn't explained enough in FE4.

[Jingle Jangle]

7 hours ago, UNLEASH IT said:

The funny thing is, RD having a bad story wasn't an unpopular opinion up until recently. 

Care for some clarification? I wasn't part of the Fire Emblem fanbase for so long, so I don't have much background information to go on.

[Etrurian emperor]

4 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Care for some clarification? I wasn't part of the Fire Emblem fanbase for so long, so I don't have much background information to go on.

From what I remember Micaiah  and the blood pact received a lot of criticism back in the day. How they handled the revelation of the Black Knight also caught a lot of flak. 

I think that Corrin and Fates played a hand in the better evaluation of RD. The situation of the lords do have some similarities but unlike Corrin Michaiah gets criticized plenty in the story and she fights more because of patriotism and blackmail rather then being a wuss like Corrin. 
The world building in Awakening and Fates being so bare bones might also have ushered in some Tellius nostalgia since that was exactly the area Tellius excelled in. 

[edgelordweeaboo]

1. Jugdral: By far the best stories in the series with nothing even coming close. Very well written characters. Lots of great villains and not everything in the story is totally black and white and many of the nations had their own reasons for fighting. 

2. Tellius: Pretty good world building, a decent amount of pretty good characters. Not a fan of most of the villains in these games at all though. Naesala was dope though. There was some dumb shit in Radiant Dawn so there's a few things that do make me put this below Jugdral. I will say though I never finished Path of Radiance but I got pretty far and I pretty much know what happened.

3. Echoes: It's a pretty decent story and the world was expanded upon a good amount with the remake. The game definitely had some pretty likable characters in it. Not a lot to say about it really.

4. Awakening: Wasn't sure whether to put this here or not just because I think this game's story could have been so much better if it were separated into two games, one for the Plegia arc with some other shit added in and one for the Valm arc. I truly believe the Valm arc as it's own game with more time for everything to be expanded upon would have made for an incredible Fire Emblem game and would have had one of the best stories in all of the games if done right. There was so much room to expand on everything there but it was stuck as only like 10 chapters and then it just felt rushed and all over the place. Overall the story is good enough but not that great.

5. Elibe: FE7's story is kinda generic but pretty good. FE6 Roy is a trash ass character and unit. Not a whole lot to say other than the games had some pretty likable characters but the stories weren't too special.

6. Sacred Stones: Less MarySue/GaryStew and the game would have had a bit better of a story. The game had some good villains but Lyon being possessed by an evil demon is fucking stupid. Don't see why they couldn't have  just given him his own legit reasons for fighting and turning on Eirika and Ephraim

7. Archanea: Pretty generic which makes sense for two of the first games. Really pretty much nothing at all to say

8.Birthright: Nothing happened. Nothing at all. There was seemingly no reason for almost anything that happened in this game. What is there even to say here?

9. Revelation: This game's story was fucking stupid and horribly written. Corrin as always does nothing. Everyone just blindly trusts each other just because. There's no interesting character dynamics, there's no interesting villains and there's way more that could have been done here.

10. Conquest: Fuck this game's story. This game had so much potential to have such a good story. It was finally a game being told from the perspective of the "villain" which would be a great concept but they fucked it up. Instead you have this shitty ass character with no resolve who doesn't ever do anything and every battle it's just "oh no, we have to spare them to win over hoshido!!". Actually the worst possible thing you could do for this game. It could have been taken in so many directions. One direction it could have been taken in would be actually going in and being conquerors and just conquering Hoshido for the good of the land of Nohr. They could have even taken it in a similar direction to Southern Thracia where Nohr is a much more poor region with less agriculture and resources and they want to conquer Hoshido to gain resources the help the country of Nohr prosper and to help the people of Nohr. Instead there's no good reason given for even fighting other than that both sides want this shitty ass character Corrin. This game could have even been taken in the direction of the characters deciding they really disagree with Nohr and their ideals and they decide that they'll start a rebellion to create a new kingdom of Nohr and it could be taken in more of a civil war direction like that which also would have been really fucking cool although it kind of conflicts with the ideas of Birthright and Revelation. Honestly if these game weren't building up to Revelation and Garon wasn't a slime monster and Anankos weren't there the game would have been so much better but they have to add all this stupid bullshit to the game to ruin it. I've never been so disappoined with a game's story. I have no hope for any Fire Emblem story after they fucked this one up so bad.

[edgelordweeaboo]

15 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

From what I remember Micaiah  and the blood pact received a lot of criticism back in the day. How they handled the revelation of the Black Knight also caught a lot of flak. 

I think that Corrin and Fates played a hand in the better evaluation of RD. The situation of the lords do have some similarities but unlike Corrin Michaiah gets criticized plenty in the story and she fights more because of patriotism and blackmail rather then being a wuss like Corrin. 
The world building in Awakening and Fates being so bare bones might also have ushered in some Tellius nostalgia since that was exactly the area Tellius excelled in. 

seriously the world building alone and the existence of fates make radiant dawn's story seem so much better in hindsight without any nostalgia involved

[Jingle Jangle]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

From what I remember Micaiah  and the blood pact received a lot of criticism back in the day. How they handled the revelation of the Black Knight also caught a lot of flak. 

I think that Corrin and Fates played a hand in the better evaluation of RD. The situation of the lords do have some similarities but unlike Corrin Michaiah gets criticized plenty in the story and she fights more because of patriotism and blackmail rather then being a wuss like Corrin. 
The world building in Awakening and Fates being so bare bones might also have ushered in some Tellius nostalgia since that was exactly the area Tellius excelled in. 

Oh I see, I actually prefer Corrin over Micaiah because at least the story in Fates is Corrin's from the start to the end, and Corrin is at better unit than Micaiah. But I feel that both are surrounded by moments in questionable writing. From the blood contract, to Garon, to Yune,  and to Azura, these two have it rough comparing them to other Fire Emblem protagonists.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Jingle Jangle

[DragonFlames]

Best to worst, huh? Okay, I'll try. I'll only list the games that I've played, though, because even though I have read / heard the stories of the other games, I believe in seeing / experiencing stories, especially visual stories like the ones in games, tv shows and movies, for oneself.

1.) Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
The best Fire Emblem story by far. It is the most concise, everything has an in-universe explanation for being the way that it is. The lovable characters are icing on the cake and help make the world and story that much more enjoyable. Inb4 people writing me essays upon essays on why Echoes' story is bad

2.) Path of Radiance / Radiant Dawn
Slightly behind Echoes is the Tellius saga that has by far the best world building in the franchise. Though the story did lose me at some points, as in, I personally didn't agree with some of it, but it was never because of faulty writing or anything of the like. I also really love most, if not all characters in these game - yes, even Micaiah - so that helps, too.

3.) Awakening
I really, really liked Awakening for what it was. Sure, it may not be the most revolutionary story, sure, the writing may have some issues, but I still think it is fine for what it is. I'd even go as far as to say I LOVE Awakening's story. I like that it is a little more lighthearted and willing to make fun of itself, something which I can always appreciate in a story (and the main reason I love Bravely Second so much). I feel like a broken record now, but just know that good (that is, enjoyable) characters are one of my criteria for liking a game's story. Also props to the only FE game that got the Avatar character right in my opinion.

4.) New Mystery of the Emblem
Avatar-circlejerking aside (which in this game, isn't THAT obnoxious, admittedly. The Avatar itself, that is to say the character of Kris, is stupid, though), I really liked New Mystery's story. Coming off of Shadow Dragon's story, which was very bare bones, though good in it's own right, I was really surprised by how good it actually was. I do enjoy some good political intrigue and this story certainly delivered on that front. It also made me realize where FE6 got most of its ideas from...
As a slight edit, I also enjoyed the Assassin subplot. I am only disappointed in how it ended, or rather, how it didn't end, because, again, Kris' character is stupid: They had such a good romance-thing going on with Katarina and then it just went nowhere, because the Avatar is married to their job... or Marth... or both. What the actual hell?

5.) Shadow Dragon
The writing in this game is top notch. Even though there isn't much character development, this game manages to tell a very compelling story and build a very interesting world - I'd say Akaneia is one of the most interesting FE worlds so far - with very little text. It is a prime example of "show, don't tell" and "less is more". Though I would have liked for some characters being better developed, some of the character relationships being explored (like, how in the hell did Abel and Est get together and where did this whole Merric x Marth's big sis come from?) I still like Shadow Dragon's story quite a lot.

6.) Blazing Sword
I used to rank this a little higher before, but after replaying it a few times, I did notice some issues with the story, albeit minor ones, which have mostly to do with pacing and the shoe-horned plot centered around Zephiel to connect this game to FE6, which feels like it comes out of nowhere, though it isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination. The Black Fang are among my favourite group of antagonists in Fire Emblem to date and I don't really like what happened to them in the story, but I can see where they were going with what they did. I wanted Lloyd and Linus to be playable, damn it!

7.) Binding Blade
I would rank this lower because of how... bland the whole thing feels, but Idoun's backstory alone prevents that from happening. I just wish it was better implemented into the game's plot and NOT locked behind some semi-cryptic requirements and then dumped on you all in one chapter. At least it wasn't DLC, I guess...
As for the rest, I already mentioned the blandness of it, but to elaborate: I can't really relate to anything that is happening, because the game gives me little reason to care for it's protagonist, his posse or even the major antagonist for that matter. They tried to go the Shadow Dragon route with keeping things short and simple, but for this game, it didn't really work that well. The background we got in FE7 didn't really help much, either, I'm afraid.

8.) Sacred Stones
It's like Warriors, but better.
...
I am joking, obviously.
The reason Sacred Stones is so low on my list is because, while the story in itself is okay, I... I really dislike the majority of it's main cast. Ephraim is a textbook example of a Gary Stu, Innes is an unlikable a-hole to end all a-holes and L'Arachel's antics just... aren't that funny. Or at least they don't fit with the game's overall darker themes. I don't know, aside from very few exceptions (Eirika, Lute, Ross, Lyon, Duessel), none of the characters feel anything close to likable or memorable to me. 
There is one other thing, which is a very touchy subject and it may just be me reading too much into it, but... I really, really dislike how Eirika only seems to be an object of lust for any of the male characters around her, making any romantic ending she can have seem really, really awkward.
Among my group of friends, she's even jokingly known as Sacred Stones' mustard glass: Everyone gets to dip their sausage in at least once.
Though this gets somewhat hilarious in retrospect, when in Awakening's DLC they hang  a huge lampshade over the above issue right in the first map when Old Hubba calls her a "a fair maid, but she rates good to great on Hubba's scale!", which was hilariously translated to "ein heißer Feger" in German, an expression that is mostly used to describe very attractive women while at the same time objectifying them.

9.) Fates
Ah, we meet again, my old frenemy... What can I say about this games' plot that hasn't already been ripped apart? I mean, calling Fates' story bad is like beating the corpse of a dead horse that died three times and got revived twice in increasingly worse condition, so I won't say too much.
Just this: Do not expect me to like your games' story when 75% of it's main cast consists of unlikable jerka$$es and idiots that are too dumb to live while the secondary cast pretty much only exists to stroke the main cast's collective dick. 
I liked Takumi better when his name was Shinon and he was at least an enjoyable a-hole, not a whiny edgy teen crying for attention.
Being loyal to your kingdom doesn't mean you're loyal to the person wearing the crown, Xander. Any idiot can have a crown on their head and call themselves king. You being a prime example.
Ryoma would make for a horrible general / king IRL. The dude just effs off to fight someone else's battle while his kingdom - that has just lost its previous leader, mind you - falls down into chaos worrying about his useless a$$.
Leo is not smart. "Hurr, durr, father's not evil, even though he tried to kill you on multiple occasions, big bro / sis. Durr, hurr"
The less said about Azura the better.

The rest of this is just me ranting, so you can skip the spoiler below if you want.
 

 

The worst part is that none of these flaws are ever addressed. The above characters  are still treated like they are the best people in the whole wide world and everyone should be like them. I WISH everything wrong with these characters could be attributed to faulty writing, and admittedly, some of it can be as seen in the supports, but... no. None of the above characters are heroes. They are all villains and if not that, then they are at least horrible people for the most part. Call Corrin a Mary Sue all you want, but if unaddressed flaws are a criteria for a character being labelled as such, then at least include the Royals, too.

Also, is it ever explained how the Royal brothers got their legendary weapons? Did they have to go through hard trials to get them? There is no evidence to that, so why is only Corrin given flak for just getting the Yato out of nowhere? *shrugs* Honestly, I don't even care at this point.

Edited December 9, 2017 by DragonFlames