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Could PVP be implemented?


Thigas
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There's a long time I'm putting a lot of thought in it. 

Wouldn't you want to PVP in real time, instead of just fighting "bots"? As a whale player, I would really love to compete in "fair" rankings - that is, fighting real people.

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Unless the game forces you to attack when possible (like checkers) or uses combat that isn't based on a map (like FE7's PvP arena), neither side is forced to attack at disadvantage or move into the opponent's coverage range, which can easily result in stalling forever.

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31 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Unless the game forces you to attack when possible (like checkers) or uses combat that isn't based on a map (like FE7's PvP arena), neither side is forced to attack at disadvantage or move into the opponent's coverage range, which can easily result in stalling forever.

this pretty much sums it up, PVP would be a stareing contest.

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2 minutes ago, Hilda said:

this pretty much sums it up, PVP would be a stareing contest.

To be just a bit more accurate, every map would either be a staring contest (because neither side can initiate combat with an advantageous outcome) or a curb stomp (because one side can). There's not much in between.

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The problem with fire emblem PvP is that the first person to move loses and given how small FEH arenas are and how damage tends to be, it would be even worse making armors useless and horse emblem would be op I say that like it isn't already the case with some regular units just scraping by or just seeing use out of favoritism.

Edited by thecrimsonflash
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Honestly, I never thought that fire emblem is a good game for pvp. It's more like first attacks first serves and a defensive team is also not viable. 
I don't really know why people want always something like pvp (especially in games which don't gain anything from). That's why I liked monster hunter, which was challenging and more based on cooperation and even there people strive for competition.

In worst case you would meet someone who will finish you before you can even move with some sick galeforce combination (I guess I exaggerate a bit D=).
 

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37 minutes ago, arctic.fox0708 said:

PVP can work if they do fog of war. Maybe even allowing the player that moves more to be able to see more.

Is there any related game that uses this kind of system that I could search for?

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1 hour ago, Stroud said:

Honestly, I never thought that fire emblem is a good game for pvp. It's more like first attacks first serves and a defensive team is also not viable. 
I don't really know why people want always something like pvp (especially in games which don't gain anything from). That's why I liked monster hunter, which was challenging and more based on cooperation and even there people strive for competition.

In worst case you would meet someone who will finish you before you can even move with some sick galeforce combination (I guess I exaggerate a bit D=).
 

I felt like shadow dragon pvp was pretty good, the capture and limited turns was a good incentive for the players to keep moving.

I think that if FE did have pvp it needs more win conditions, a simple rout does not provide anyone any benefits in the context of strategy, perhaps if they made defense pvp where one player is defending while the other is trying to take a specific point on the map.

pvp in heroes would be horrible though, it would be drawn out and the only way to win would be through sheer cheapness, or horse emblem there's a difference?

Edited by thecrimsonflash
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1 hour ago, Thigas said:

Is there any related game that uses this kind of system that I could search for?

Advanced Wars uses Fog of War in maps (also an IS game) but i am not sure if it also uses Fog of War on pvp?

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21 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Advanced Wars uses Fog of War in maps (also an IS game) but i am not sure if it also uses Fog of War on pvp?

It can, but for most maps (not sure about the other entries, but Days of Ruin has default settings the mapmaker can associate with a map, though I recall few people utilizing it), you have to explicitly turn Fog of War on before the match begins.

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The only way I would see pvp working in heroes is if builds were hidden. In other words you can not just select your foe's unit and instantly know everything about them. Yes if you know the meta you can guess at what they have. And with weapon graphics you can know what weapon they are wielding which can further narrow the types of builds you expect. In addition you could guess at their special by their cooldown number and expected builds. However, you wouldn't know for certain. That one turn cooldown you thought was moonbow could easily be a Sacred Cowl instead. And now your Reinhardt is overextended and has a rather angry unit staring him down. Is that lance baiting your Reinhardt not expecting your lance breaker or do they have Deflect Magic equipped?

 

But yeah as long as we can see a unit's exact build and stats and their locations pvp would just stall. Maps are so small I don't know how much Fog of war would help there. However, not knowing the exact stats or build of the enemy could be the key to making pvp exciting. The win would go to the one most experienced and capable of predicting the enemy's builds. Kinda like how Pokemon works. You may know what they have standing in front of you and you may have a decent idea of what most people run on that fella, but you could still be brought down by a rather unexpected build. Boy did I love doing that to people back in the NetBattle days. The cries of 'WHAT THE HELL?!',  'WHY WOULD YOU GIVE THEM THAT?!', 'HOW DID YOU SURVIVE THAT?!', etc just filled me with unbridled joy.  That said Pokemon and FE are completely different beasts and not knowing the opposing build and stats may not be conducive to fun in FE, particularly since you can see it in every other mode.

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PvP is not only just bad for FE in general, except for maybe Link Battles in the older games, it just doesn’t make sense in Heroes. The maps are too small and whoever gets closest to the enemy team without attacking first, loses. Even in Fates it was terribly balanced because the player going first could just Rescue chain a Galeforcer to the enemy team, then allow the remaining members to sweep with Warp. But I digress.

Fog of War is interesting, but then it makes the outcome of games more random than anything. The maps are also too small to accomodate an objective for the players to move toward, so Shadow Dragon’s PvP isn’t a good reference either.

Edited by MrSmokestack
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Honestly, I dread to see something like this implemented. I'd worry about prizes being hidden behind it (even something like orbs), and I can't imagine it being a very fun mode to play. 

If they implemented it with no prizes and literally just for fun then maybe, but I'd likely never touch it. Not sure how match ups would work, either, as they'd need people of similar levels playing at the same time. Ofc, the game has a huge base so this could be feasible, but that doesn't make me like the idea of it any more. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I would very much love such a mode! I hope there is a fe heroes 2 coming out one day which will have that feature.

No matter how much I like this game, the game modes are VERY limited and even though AA might be the best mode for me, fighting bots all the time isnt THAT great.

Technically speaking, I think it could work pretty well imo, different modes and rules could be applied here.

Even though I am not too much of a fan of hearthstone - it is a lot of to play against other people.

I mean how long can you play the same modes over and over again? 

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