Playing FE4 for the First Time

[Shadow Mir]

9 hours ago, Greencapps said:

Oh it's a bit cryptic but it's kinda hard to accidentally have the wrong people fall in love. It might be a little bit or a restriction but I just see that as an added layer of challenge. I do see it being a turn off to some.

I think you're selling the silver Axe a bit short but I see where you're coming from. It seems I've missed all but Forseti from the ones you've mentioned which granted sucks but I still get plenty of use out of Lex and Arden can provide enough extra damage to take out some of the more dangerous enemy phase foes. The knight ring seems kinda meh and I haven't really had trouble with healers. I'm always able to work around the restrictions.

 

As mentioned earlier, Lewyn is the main case of what I pointed out happening, since Sylvia starts out with a lot of love points towards him (only 10 less than Erinys). This isn't really helped by the map design. . .

Well, the Brave Axe is the only axe that isn't mega heavy for no reason at all. As for the Knight Ring, like I stated earlier, it's not obtainable in the second generation, and it's really good - it allows a foot unit (mainly a healer or dancer) to use up their remaining movement after an action. The Pursuit Ring is not really about what it does for Arden, but more about what it can do for, well, anybody that doesn't have Pursuit innately.

[Mandokarla]

10 hours ago, Lord Chrom of Ylisse said:

How did you get the game and what system are you playing it on. Is there a translation you're using?

I'm using a translation patch I found on these forums, and I'm using an emulator -- there's no other feasible way to play it for me. 

[Punished Dayni]

49 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Lewyn x Sylvia says hi. Iirc, Sylvia starts out with a lot of love points for Lewyn. The issue? I always try to pair up Lewyn and Erynis instead. And i think most people do too. So they have to make esure Sylvia stays away as far as possible from Lewyn until he and Erynis get married.

Sylvia starts with a higher base than Erinys as well as at least a few turns headstart to complicate things. At least with that specific pairing they have a way to get around that. If you want Levin/Tiltyu or something.....

You can also unintentionally cause certain unwanted pairings to grow faster if you don't account for love growths.

[Greencapps]

Then just don't have the Lewyn ans Sylvia end their turns near each other something which isn't hard considering she's a dancer and even without that it's not particularly difficult. As long as you have your brain turned on it's probably not gonna pop on accident.

I know what the knight ring does and it still doesn't seem particularly game breaking like you guys are making it out to be.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Greencapps

[Zasplach]

1 hour ago, Greencapps said:

I know what the knight ring does and it still doesn't seem particularly game breaking like you guys are making it out to be.

It lets your dancer have a chance to keep up with your front liners, it's a huge quality of life bonus, especially if you want to play the game with any amount of speed or pace you have to have that ring.  

The only potential mix-up for lovers is Lewyn and Slyvia, they start with a huge base, but their lover points aren't that high, so you basically have to have them stand next to each other for lots of turns and set off that secret conversation in chapter 4.  I've never had it interfere in trying to pair him with Erinys because of their automatic pairing conversation after Castle Silesia, but it can interfere if you're trying to pair him with Tailtiu it can be a problem if you're not careful.

The lover system isn't explained at all in FE4, but that's how games used to be made; it was expected that the player would either buy the guides to the game or figure it out on their own.  It was the cost of doing business in those days. 

[Greencapps]

29 minutes ago, Zasplach said:

It lets your dancer have a chance to keep up with your front liners, it's a huge quality of life bonus, especially if you want to play the game with any amount of speed or pace you have to have that ring. 

Certainly useful no doubt about it and I see how it would be irritating to keep all the knights alive for the whole map. Though if you're trying to go fast I'd presume it's probably a second playthough, because I don't know about you but I never speed run an RPG my first time through. If that is the case and you're playing it today then you most likely know about it ahead of time so the cryptic argument is not applicable. 

@Levant Mir CelestiaLook I just don't see how you reverting back to a previous save losing hours of game to get an optional item is the game's fault. It's not required and it only makes the game a little easier. 

You can dislike the game because of a few nitpicks that prevent you from enjoying it. I never said you couldn't. All I was doing was refuting your argument that the game is broken or unplayable because it's just not true. Your complaints are minor and can be worked around. I'm sad that these things prevent you from enjoying the game at all but I get where you're coming from, I personally just can't get into Fates no matter how good the maps are because of the story and a few other minor gripes.

Anyways this argument seems to be endless and frankly I'm getting tired of it.

Agree to disagree?

[Shadow Mir]

On 10/19/2017 at 1:12 PM, Greencapps said:

@Levant Mir CelestiaLook I just don't see how you reverting back to a previous save losing hours of game to get an optional item is the game's fault. It's not required and it only makes the game a little easier. 

You can dislike the game because of a few nitpicks that prevent you from enjoying it. I never said you couldn't. All I was doing was refuting your argument that the game is broken or unplayable because it's just not true. Your complaints are minor and can be worked around. I'm sad that these things prevent you from enjoying the game at all but I get where you're coming from, I personally just can't get into Fates no matter how good the maps are because of the story and a few other minor gripes.

Anyways this argument seems to be endless and frankly I'm getting tired of it.

Agree to disagree?

That isn't entirely what I meant - it's that with how long it would take to clear one map, having something go wrong and needing to restart when you were near the end would mean losing a lot of time since the maps are huge time sinks.

I fail to see how you're refuting Genealogy being broken when it's a fact. FFS, this is the same game where if you don't have a horse, Pursuit, or a holy weapon, you're automatically inferior to those that do have them, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Mind you, the lack of these doesn't make a unit unusable, per se, but it does mean they won't stand out on the battlefield, with the lack of the former in particular ensuring they'll be lucky to see even a half-decent amount of combat unless you routinely slow down. Also, I've seen this game called "Horse Emblem". Let that sink in for a while. Anyway, why do you insist that my issues with the game are "minor" and  "nitpicks"' which might apply to some, but not all, of them? And for the record, I feel much the same way about Genealogy as you do Fates, except the godawful gameplay is the final nail in Genealogy's coffin - I can't force myself to play a game that doesn't have gameplay good enough to get my attention. That being said, it does have some good things going for it - it's just the magnitude of the bad eclipses the good.

And with this, I'm done - I feel I've said everything I needed to say.

[Greencapps]

27 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

That isn't entirely what I meant - it's that with how long it would take to clear one map, having something go wrong and needing to restart when you were near the end would mean losing a lot of time since the maps are huge time sinks

Not to drag this out any longer than it needs to be but, you know that you can save the start of every turn right?

27 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I fail to see how you're refuting Genealogy being broken when it's a fact.

I guess this depends your definition of broken cause as long as I'm able to play it without it crashing or being unfair I don't see it as broken, flawed and unbalanced it may be it's not broken. 

27 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

unless you routinely slow down.

Implying you have to be going as fast as possible at all times. Not every game is a speed run. 

27 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I've seen this game called "Horse Emblem". Let that sink in for a while.

I fail to see how a reciting a tired meme helps you prove a point.

27 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Anyway, why do you insist that my issues with the game are "minor" and  "nitpicks"' which might apply to some, but not all, of them?

Because they feel that way?

27 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And for the record, I feel much the same way about Genealogy as you do Fates, except the godawful gameplay is the final nail in Genealogy's coffin - I can't force myself to play a game that doesn't have gameplay good enough to get my attention.

That was kinda my point. Both games have their problems that cause us to not enjoy them. Does that mean they're bad games? No not necessarily. It just means they aren't for us.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Greencapps

[Tetragrammaton]

47 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

That isn't entirely what I meant - it's that with how long it would take to clear one map, having something go wrong and needing to restart when you were near the end would mean losing a lot of time since the maps are huge time sinks.

I fail to see how you're refuting Genealogy being broken when it's a fact. FFS, this is the same game where if you don't have a horse, Pursuit, or a holy weapon, you're automatically inferior to those that do have them, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Mind you, the lack of these doesn't make a unit unusable, per se, but it does mean they won't stand out on the battlefield, with the lack of the former in particular ensuring they'll be lucky to see even a half-decent amount of combat unless you routinely slow down. Also, I've seen this game called "Horse Emblem". Let that sink in for a while. Anyway, why do you insist that my issues with the game are "minor" and  "nitpicks"' which might apply to some, but not all, of them? And for the record, I feel much the same way about Genealogy as you do Fates, except the godawful gameplay is the final nail in Genealogy's coffin - I can't force myself to play a game that doesn't have gameplay good enough to get my attention. That being said, it does have some good things going for it - it's just the magnitude of the bad eclipses the good.

And with this, I'm done - I feel I've said everything I needed to say.

There is a reason that FE4 allows players to save at every turn, while other FE games forbid it.

You should compare it to when you grind in arena, you can't save and continue it another day, or after hours of arena grinding without save, one mistake and your good character dies instantly.

 

[Shadow Mir]

On 10/20/2017 at 11:55 PM, Greencapps said:

Not to drag this out any longer than it needs to be but, you know that you can save the start of every turn right?

I do. Not that it changes anything because the game is still a slog to play through. Also, it doesn't really help when if something goes wrong, it's more likely to be near the end of my turn or in the middle, as opposed to during the opening moves.

On 10/20/2017 at 11:55 PM, Greencapps said:

I guess this depends your definition of broken cause as long as I'm able to play it without it crashing or being unfair I don't see it as broken, flawed and unbalanced it may be it's not broken. 

I guess so. But I say it's broken more from a fundamental perspective, because you have doubling tied to a skill that not everyone can access, among other things.

On 10/20/2017 at 11:55 PM, Greencapps said:

Implying you have to be going as fast as possible at all times. Not every game is a speed run. 

Maybe not, but with villages tending to be as far away as they tend to be, you're practically forced to rely on your horses to get to them before they're destroyed. Also, having to slow down every three turns or so just for my foot units to keep up kills the tempo. And then there's the part where foot units tend to be ill suited for the type of combat that this game promotes (since the enemy tends to come in large groups, your mounts are best used to harass the enemy and then fall back as to limit enemy phase exposure. Infantry units can't do this without the Knight Ring, and even if they did have it, they still have less movement, meaning that they're liable to get swarmed and killed come enemy phase. This means they can't reasonably contribute until the enemy forces have mostly been whittled down.).

All this being said, I wouldn't be opposed to a remake if they don't go the route that Shadow Dragon did, sacrificing playability for the sake of remaining faithful to the original.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Greencapps]

41 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Not that it changes anything because the game is still a slog to play through. Also, it doesn't really help when if something goes wrong, it's more likely to be near the end of my turn or in the middle, as opposed to during the opening moves.

Sure but that still doesn't cause you to lose hours of play. Turns aren't that long.

41 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Maybe not, but with villages tending to be as far away as they tend to be, you're practically forced to rely on your horses to get to them before they're destroyed

But the villages are often away from the actual combat making it easy to still use non mounted units in the actual fights. Also I think the game does a good job at making the non mounted units really good to make up for their lack of mobility. Some of my best front line fighters are infantry Ayra, Lewyn, and Jamke.

41 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And then there's the part where foot units tend to be ill suited for the type of combat that this game promotes (since the enemy tends to come in large groups, your mounts are best used to harass the enemy and then fall back as to limit enemy phase exposure. Infantry units can't do this without the Knight Ring, and even if they did have it, they still have less movement, meaning that they're liable to get swarmed and killed come enemy phase. This means they can't reasonably contribute until the enemy forces have mostly been whittled down.).

I can generally survive enemy phase without retreating on player phase. Sure some might be close to death or in the event of someone dieing you can always just reload and try again.

I feel the game does a good job at putting systems in place that can circumvent most of its problems.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Greencapps said:

Sure but that still doesn't cause you to lose hours of play. Turns aren't that long.

Maybe not, but the enemy phases are the slowest of any game by far. Which isn't helped by every enemy faction having its own turn...

2 hours ago, Greencapps said:

But the villages are often away from the actual combat making it easy to still use non mounted units in the actual fights. Also I think the game does a good job at making the non mounted units really good to make up for their lack of mobility. Some of my best front line fighters are infantry Ayra, Lewyn, and Jamke.

I wouldn't really think Ayra (fragile, has to rely on unreliable evasion to not wind up joining the choir invisible; also, on an unrelated note, her recruitment isn't hinted at iirc) and Jamke (archer) are THAT great on the front line... Especially the former, who's likely to kill too many enemy units and get done in for it.

2 hours ago, Greencapps said:

I can generally survive enemy phase without retreating on player phase. Sure some might be close to death or in the event of someone dieing you can always just reload and try again.

I feel the game does a good job at putting systems in place that can circumvent most of its problems.

I'm not convinced, not when you have like 15+ enemies coming at you all at once.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Jave]

10 hours ago, Greencapps said:

Sure but that still doesn't cause you to lose hours of play. Turns aren't that long.

Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but it actually is possible to lose several hours of gameplay in FE4 if you're going for an AAAA Rank on a real console (meaning no save states). The reason for this is that one of the ranks involves unit survival, and every time a unit dies, it goes down (specifically you lose a whole letter every 3 kills). Now you may be thinking that autosaving at the beginning of every turn is enough to nullify the kill and try again, but sadly, it doesn't work like that. If one of your units is killed, it gets saved in the game's memory as soon as it happens and it's remembered when you restart the turn. The only way to negate a unit death is to restart the whole map, complete with opening cutscene, (so pray that you remembered to do a separate save at the start of the map).

I understand that this is a more hardcore way to play FE4, but remember the game was designed with this feature for those who choose to play it, and back in the day of the Super Famicom that is how Japanese players who took on the challenge had to do it, with hours of lost gameplay if you suffered a unit death near the end of a map. And in a game when you're constantly at the mercy of the RNG, that is always a possibility, no matter how much you plan ahead.

[Coreyographed]

Not to beat a dead horse emblem, but I get where both sides are coming from. I personally find that the good outweighs the bad, and the walking never really bothered me. This was originally a console game, so I always have that mindset when I sit down to play it. This was intended to be done in large amounts of time, so I always set aside a couple hours at a time to play it. For me, I spend HOURS in the arena soft-resetting. That is the part that takes the longest for me, but I don't mind because of how much fun the arena is. I think Jugdral had the best arena system, hands-down. I know it feels like more, but I really feel like walking with nothing else happening is at best 20% of the game for me, with Ch 1 forest and Ch 5 desert being the exceptions just like any other game with chapters like that. Walking to an area is how I build up lover points between units, so I see it as a mechanic of doing that.

I get that it isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I really do enjoy FE4 as a whole package more than any other Emblem. The exception is Thracia, as it is the only one I have not personally played