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Why did they make Frederick an Axe user?


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7 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Koei acted like their would be an Armored Lance user and another lance moveset that would appear.

This was not true for the final game where Frederick would've made the game more balanced by using a Lance as we already had 2 axe movesets and only 1 lance which is awful for a Fire Emblem, especially with the weapon triangle.

Because Oboro was meant to be in the base game.

Except that she, like the other 3 NPCs, needed to be swept under the rug to make room for Lyn,/Celica/Anna when IS/Ninty "suggested" them. 

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On 10/26/2017 at 3:42 PM, YotsuMaboroshi said:

And in turn there would have been 2 axe users and 4 lance users, whereas what we got gives 3 of each.  Yeah, lances got shafted for moveset variety, but weapon variety only matters for how many people can use a weapon, not how many movesets there are (unless all movesets are unique, which they aren't).

By that logic, Koei could've just added Cherche instead of Frederick.

Edited by Emperor Hardin
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1 hour ago, Truthblade said:

@Emperor Hardin

 

What they said is that the class Armor Knight itself used lances, but that didn't mean there was a playable one necessarily, as they were probably talking about NPCs.   

 but since we already had a lot of swords, he shall mainly use magic as a Tactician, launching 

You can see here, "already have" means playable.

And since we also have the non-mounted and armored Knight that will use a spear, Great Knights shall end up appearing with an axe.

That totally makes it sound like the Armored Knight is playable.

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12 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

By that logic, Koei could've just added Cherche instead of Frederick.

Yes they could have (never mind any other criteria that were used to choose the characters).  They didn't.  That doesn't mean that the 3 lance users we have currently magically become 1 character.  We still have 3 axes and 3 lances currently.

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15 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

 but since we already had a lot of swords, he shall mainly use magic as a Tactician, launching 

You can see here, "already have" means playable.

And since we also have the non-mounted and armored Knight that will use a spear, Great Knights shall end up appearing with an axe.

That totally makes it sound like the Armored Knight is playable.

It can be read that way, but it can also be read that they have it in the game in some form, but not necessarily playable. It could go either way.

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On 10/26/2017 at 11:16 PM, guedesbrawl said:

Because Oboro was meant to be in the base game.

Except that she, like the other 3 NPCs, needed to be swept under the rug to make room for Lyn,/Celica/Anna when IS/Ninty "suggested" them. 

Hello hello where is the proofs.

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20 minutes ago, GeminiJ said:

Hello hello where is the proofs.

Firstly, KT already said Lyn and Celica were suggestions by IS, and one can only imagine what a "suggestion" is considering their relationship in this project. Anna follows the same circumstances as those two: lategame clone with no story impact. And most damning of all, Niles's supports were datamined... he was THAT far in development before being cut... but look at that, we ended up with 3 Takumis ANYWAYS! I wonder why.

 

 

 

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On 11/3/2017 at 12:18 PM, guedesbrawl said:

Firstly, KT already said Lyn and Celica were suggestions by IS, and one can only imagine what a "suggestion" is considering their relationship in this project. Anna follows the same circumstances as those two: lategame clone with no story impact. And most damning of all, Niles's supports were datamined... he was THAT far in development before being cut... but look at that, we ended up with 3 Takumis ANYWAYS! I wonder why.

And niles as far as anyone is concerned, is the only one to of had any of these support conversations being found. no one else it seems,

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On 11/3/2017 at 11:18 AM, guedesbrawl said:

Firstly, KT already said Lyn and Celica were suggestions by IS, and one can only imagine what a "suggestion" is considering their relationship in this project. Anna follows the same circumstances as those two: lategame clone with no story impact. And most damning of all, Niles's supports were datamined... he was THAT far in development before being cut... but look at that, we ended up with 3 Takumis ANYWAYS! I wonder why.

 

 

 

So do you think they were only going to give us three history mode maps in the base game, or that they were going to have the "Fates" pack feature Lyn and Celica instead or something?

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11 hours ago, GeminiJ said:

So do you think they were only going to give us three history mode maps in the base game, or that they were going to have the "Fates" pack feature Lyn and Celica instead or something?

I think they'd have given Fates two maps, one for Nohr and other for Hoshido, and split the final maps's missions among the remaining four. Or something. I doubt history mode took as much time as the characters, but i dunno.

DLC probably wasn't a big concern at the time. Maybe Azura would come in with a smaller pack.

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3 hours ago, guedesbrawl said:

I think they'd have given Fates two maps, one for Nohr and other for Hoshido, and split the final maps's missions among the remaining four. Or something. I doubt history mode took as much time as the characters, but i dunno.

So basically what you're saying is that they made Lyn, Celica and Anna at the last minute and cut out Oboro and Niles, and just decided to cut Navarre and Owain out at the same time for shits and giggles? And what of the Anna mementos? Were they just in there for no reason as well, since Anna apparently wasn't playable. And this is what magically brought the amount of Lance/Axe/Bow/Magic users coincidentally in sync, since before they were going to have an extra lance user. Sounds legit.

3 hours ago, guedesbrawl said:

DLC probably wasn't a big concern at the time. Maybe Azura would come in with a smaller pack.

You're just trying to be funny, aren't you? Have you played no recent Musou games aside from this one? The DLC for Musous is worked on alongside the main game all the time, DLC characters being in the game (but enemy only) before being released is standard practice.

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3 hours ago, GeminiJ said:

So basically what you're saying is that they made Lyn, Celica and Anna at the last minute and cut out Oboro and Niles, and just decided to cut Navarre and Owain out at the same time for shits and giggles? And what of the Anna mementos? Were they just in there for no reason as well, since Anna apparently wasn't playable. And this is what magically brought the amount of Lance/Axe/Bow/Magic users coincidentally in sync, since before they were going to have an extra lance user. Sounds legit.

You're just trying to be funny, aren't you? Have you played no recent Musou games aside from this one? The DLC for Musous is worked on alongside the main game all the time, DLC characters being in the game (but enemy only) before being released is standard practice.

They didn't cut these 4 for shits and giggles. They cut them because they were forced to add 3 other characters out of nowhere and likely didn't get extra money and time to be able to finish everything in one go.

It just makes too much sense. Celica was clearly rushed into the game to the point where her victory animation has the Falchion in the 3DS version while coincidentally filling the obvious niche Owain would likely have (the Topsy Turvy version of a STR-based sword moveset), Lyn's moveset fits Navarre a thousand times better given that the only thing that justifies Lyn outright giving up on her FE style is the same thing that'd make Bride!Eirika acceptable on top of we having basically nothing worthwhile to make you pick one character over the other in battle (like the only other bad clone pair, Chrom-Lucina), 4 archers = 1 Moveset is simply a massive waste. They also promised us that we'd have some form of ground lance in the game, and given how the only Lancers we have come from the most awkward moveset in the game AND they are all weak to arrows, there's an obvious, gaping hole in the class dynamics.

Again, the NPCs were actually involved in the story. Anna, Celica and Lyn were nonexistent. Given the weight the last two carry, it'd make much more sense to save those for DLC rather than put NPCs and make people think they have to pay twice for the content.

Anna mementos don't necessarily have to bring her as a character. Given her omnipresence in the series, she is still fit for that role even without play ability... to the point where Merchant!Anna uses a completely different model. Don't you think it's odd that Anna being a starter pick would've meant they truly wanted to put 4 archers all with the same basic moves? That someone truly thought this was necessary or even a good idea?

The bolded sentence is literally meaningless when Swords and Dragonstones go to other extremes of this logic. 

 

Quite honestly, if this Anna was planned from day 1 it just makes everything worse. Instead of wasting time with two new models for a useless clone, they could've polished up her Merchant model, gave her some sort of promotion, and made that Anna our ground lancer as per her boss form in Awakening's apotheosis.

Edited by guedesbrawl
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19 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

How is this thread still alive? I bet none of you guys asked the more pertinent question: "How can Frederick use Dragon Veins?"

How can anyone not from Fates? Okay, so they mention royal blood I think, but that still excludes Cordelia, Frederick, and...well, Robin might even count and I guess Tiki is like a dragon princess, so...yeah, those two. 

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8 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

How can anyone not from Fates? Okay, so they mention royal blood I think, but that still excludes Cordelia, Frederick, and...well, Robin might even count and I guess Tiki is like a dragon princess, so...yeah, those two. 

The ability to use Dragon Veins is locked to those descended from the ancestral dragons of the Fates universe, which only includes the royal characters. Maybe Tiki could use dragon veins as a descendant of Naga, but that's really the only theoretical user from this game's non-Fates roster.

Not that I think the shoddy lore of Fates warrants protection, I just think the message "Frederick used the Dragon Vein" is hysterically funny.

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