Shin Megami Tensei V Revealed

[DragonFlames]

Huh. Looks cool. It's just a teaser, but it looks promising so far. I wonder if they'll stick with the 3D models for the demons or if they'll go back to the EO-esque sprite style. 

I really enjoyed playing SMTIV and it's sequel (haven't played any of the older games, sadly) and very much enjoyed Persona 5 (Persona 4 Golden not so much, sadly), so this might be the time to start saving up to buy a Switch once this releases.

[Magical CC]

On 10/29/2017 at 2:35 AM, Nobody said:

it's a switch exclusive, and if it going anywhere else, it's to the PS4. I don't think Atlus has ever released one of their "big games" on steam.

Wow there. Have Atlus ever released any of their game to to steam or pc in general?

[Emeraldfox]

On 10/26/2017 at 1:41 PM, B.Leu said:

You know, at first SMT was more of a deconstruction of pokemon (before pokemon funnily enough)

How is SMT a deconstruction of Pokemon if it came before it? That doesn't make any sense, if anything it's the other way around.

[B.Leu]

On 30/10/2017 at 6:48 PM, Emeraldfox said:

How is SMT a deconstruction of Pokemon if it came before it? That doesn't make any sense, if anything it's the other way around.

Hm ? What I meant is that the concept of pokemon, that is catching creatures, is deconstruted fast in the first game and show how fast things would go so wrong if such things were to exist. We're not going into the 'technically' are we Pokemon is not a series were your mother is devored  and possessed, or where you fuse your dog with a demon in a Cathedral, so it can be a Cerberus, no ?

[Emeraldfox]

10 hours ago, B.Leu said:

Hm ? What I meant is that the concept of pokemon, that is catching creatures, is deconstruted fast in the first game and show how fast things would go so wrong if such things were to exist. We're not going into the 'technically' are we Pokemon is not a series were your mother is devored  and possessed, or where you fuse your dog with a demon in a Cathedral, so it can be a Cerberus, no ?

Uh, no? In order for (S)MT to be a deconstruction of Pokemon, Pokemon would have had to come first. It didn't. SMT is normally about apocalyptic or post apocalyptic nonsense where you get demons to help you kill other demons with morality built in. Meanwhile in Pokemon it's about people living with Pokemon, they talk about the dangers of going into tall grass without a Pokemon of your own. The only similarity they have is creature collection.

[DragonFlames]

5 hours ago, Emeraldfox said:

Uh, no? In order for (S)MT to be a deconstruction of Pokemon, Pokemon would have had to come first. It didn't. SMT is normally about apocalyptic or post apocalyptic nonsense where you get demons to help you kill other demons with morality built in. Meanwhile in Pokemon it's about people living with Pokemon, they talk about the dangers of going into tall grass without a Pokemon of your own. The only similarity they have is creature collection.

Detractors would say that SMT is for edgelords while Pokémon is for kids / grown up babies. Digimon, meanwhile, is for the hipsters to enjoy.
I'm joking, obviously.
By that logic, since I love SMT and Digimon and used to love Pokémon, I guess I am an edgelord hipster who used to be a kid / grown up baby?

In all seriousness, the monster collecting stuff is the only thing these three franchises ever had and ever will have in common, except for there being an 'm' somewhere in the name. Digimon started out as a Tamagotchi for boys and became about a digital world in a parallel space that occasionally interacts with our own, real world, (S)MT is based on real world mythology in front of a post-apocalyptic background with strong moral choices involved, with Persona being a spin-off with a stronger focus on individuality and the nature of human personality, and Pokémon is about 'what if local wildlife had magic powers?'
If anything, I'd say Pokémon is the franchise with the strongest focus on the collecting aspect, since it's creator was a real-life Bug Catcher.

Unless Pokémon decides to go full-on Mad Max on us... oh wait. Pokémon Colosseum already covered that, didn't it? Well then, they still don't have more in common, because Pokémon can't suddenly fuse and be stronger than it's individual parts, can they? Oh wait, they can...  Well, at least they don't switch between multiple forms at will, right? Err... But they don't have a temporary form of evolution that triggers through friendsh-- oh. GG, GameFreak. You managed to rip off every other monster collecting franchise and thought we didn't even notice.
Note: In light of me knowing that Pokémon fans can be sensitive about this kind of thing, my above, crossed-out statement wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

[B.Leu]

9 hours ago, Emeraldfox said:

Uh, no? In order for (S)MT to be a deconstruction of Pokemon, Pokemon would have had to come first. It didn't. SMT is normally about apocalyptic or post apocalyptic nonsense where you get demons to help you kill other demons with morality built in. Meanwhile in Pokemon it's about people living with Pokemon, they talk about the dangers of going into tall grass without a Pokemon of your own. The only similarity they have is creature collection.

To be a deconstruction of the concept before the concept. It's not hard to understand, no ? Or are we going into even more technically ? That or you didn't actually played Megami Tensei or SMT1, which show precisely what would go wrong if a catching monster device would exist.
Not that I blame you, they're pretty old, but if it's to play the captain contrarian and not trying to understand what I'm trying to say... :/

 

4 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

In all seriousness, the monster collecting stuff is the only thing these three franchises ever had and ever will have in common, except for there being an 'm' somewhere in the name. Digimon started out as a Tamagotchi for boys and became about a digital world in a parallel space that occasionally interacts with our own, real world, (S)MT is based on real world mythology in front of a post-apocalyptic background with strong moral choices involved, with Persona being a spin-off with a stronger focus on individuality and the nature of human personality, and Pokémon is about 'what if local wildlife had magic powers?'
If anything, I'd say Pokémon is the franchise with the strongest focus on the collecting aspect, since it's creator was a real-life Bug Catcher.

It's bad to be a hipster or a grown-up baby ?
Pokemon and Persona have one thing in common: They don't give actually give answers to the problems they show and love to use story shotcuts, aka deus ex machinas. :p

[Jedi]

9 hours ago, B.Leu said:

To be a deconstruction of the concept before the concept. It's not hard to understand, no ? Or are we going into even more technically ? That or you didn't actually played Megami Tensei or SMT1, which show precisely what would go wrong if a catching monster device would exist.
Not that I blame you, they're pretty old, but if it's to play the captain contrarian and not trying to understand what I'm trying to say... :/

Your point is kind of stupid considering your trying to argue its a deconstruction before the thing that it'd be deconstructing didn't exist yet. Therefore its not really a deconstruction of it considering that wasn't its intention it was created with.

[DragonFlames]

14 hours ago, B.Leu said:

It's bad to be a hipster or a grown-up baby ?
Pokemon and Persona have one thing in common: They don't give actually give answers to the problems they show and love to use story shotcuts, aka deus ex machinas. :p

Not at all.
Well, with Persona's themes, it's difficult to come to a conclusive answer, since it poses questions that have been discussed for centuries, literally (studying a little philosophy on the side), but I would otherwise agree with you.

[Jingle Jangle]

All right, the trailer is now in English.

Getting Nocturne vibes, still.

[Jedi]

Woo a English trailer at last.

[Interdimensional Observer]

They are using the word "Messiah" here. I haven't played Apocalypse yet, but I know it does opt for something different from the traditional God-Law and Lucifer-Chaos approach. Did Apocalypse use the word "Messiah" for the MC at all?

The term "Messiah" is Jewish in origin, and hence unless SMT is being loose here with the word to just mean "chosen one" with no particular religious affiliation, it'd suggest the return of traditional blue & white Law vs. traditional red & black Chaos.

I'm just curious, because while I don't mind angels vs. demons some of the time, sticking to the same old same old theme with minor modifications from game to game all the time isn't a good thing. Doing a less traditionally SMT idealogical clash like Nocturne enlivens the series; Devil Survivor 2 as well. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jingle Jangle]

31 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They are using the word "Messiah" here. I haven't played Apocalypse yet, but I know it does opt for something different from the traditional God-Law and Lucifer-Chaos approach. Did Apocalypse use the word "Messiah" for the MC at all?

Not in the main game, but for the DLC "called Messiahs in the Diamond Realm"

Spoiler

The protagonists of SMT 1,2,3,4  and Apocalypse are considered Messiahs created by the Great Will (not YHYH) to put a stop to YHYH's machinations. Being pulled from their endgames to be tested by Stephen. In order to determine if the protagonists has the power to complete their games.

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Jingle Jangle

[Jedi]

11 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They are using the word "Messiah" here. I haven't played Apocalypse yet, but I know it does opt for something different from the traditional God-Law and Lucifer-Chaos approach. Did Apocalypse use the word "Messiah" for the MC at all?

The term "Messiah" is Jewish in origin, and hence unless SMT is being loose here with the word to just mean "chosen one" with no particular religious affiliation, it'd suggest the return of traditional blue & white Law vs. traditional red & black Chaos.

They use Messiah very often in SMT. As is pointed out in the post above me.

[The DanMan]

Hopefully this is a 2019 game. Because I'm interested but there's way too much coming out next year already.

[Rapier]

On 28/10/2017 at 11:03 AM, Magical CC said:

And it will be on steam (hoping).

I take a metaphorical knife stab in my conscience every time a good game is not released for Steam. At least this trend is changing (hi, Atelier, Star Ocean, .hack and Trails).

I played Persona, but SMT seems more interesting due to having higher stakes and being more mature. I don't really appreciate school settings that much, where it's about a group of friends being sociable and having slices-of-life along with plot. Is there a good SMT for a complete beginner to play? I played Devil Summoner for a bit before I... dunno why I even dropped it, but I did.

[Von Ithipathachai]

2 hours ago, Rapier said:

I played Persona, but SMT seems more interesting due to having higher stakes and being more mature. I don't really appreciate school settings that much, where it's about a group of friends being sociable and having slices-of-life along with plot. Is there a good SMT for a complete beginner to play? I played Devil Summoner for a bit before I... dunno why I even dropped it, but I did.

Which Devil Summoner game did you play?

I believe Shin Megami Tensei IV on the 3DS might be the best for beginners, even though the initial difficulty curve is rather unforgiving.

[Jedi]

3 hours ago, Rapier said:

I take a metaphorical knife stab in my conscience every time a good game is not released for Steam. At least this trend is changing (hi, Atelier, Star Ocean, .hack and Trails).

I played Persona, but SMT seems more interesting due to having higher stakes and being more mature. I don't really appreciate school settings that much, where it's about a group of friends being sociable and having slices-of-life along with plot. Is there a good SMT for a complete beginner to play? I played Devil Summoner for a bit before I... dunno why I even dropped it, but I did.

I'd recommend 4 as well however, you may find it a slog at points, because dungeon crawling is a big part of SMT and not so much the plot, its more the environment and atmosphere that give the sense of tension and higher stakes. 3 (despite me not having played 3 yet) and Strange Journey as well, as much as I love 1 I can't wholeheartedly recommend it unless you're ready to learn a game from the ground up, I think it has the strongest atmosphere in the series.

Persona has stronger characters, SMT has a stronger atmosphere. The gameplay is preference, some prefer the more brutal SMT, although Persona can be brutal too it tends to be more forgiving. 

Although i'm not entirely sure about the series direction after 4:Apocalypse considering while it was a  good game it tried too hard in certain aspects to be like Persona. Probably because western reviewers were pissed 4 wasn't like Persona in the first place.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Jedi

[B.Leu]

First of all, I would like to apologize to everyone about the mess I started, while I do believe I really put my foot in my mouth and misunderstood as I'm not very eloquent, I also believe that I was unpleasant. So once again, I apologize for it.
 

I recomend SMTIV or SMTIV Apocalypse for beginners. You don't need to play SMTIV to understand SMTIVA, but you'll miss some plot points, and then they're the one where you have to be really careful.

If you had to pick one or two, based on your post, I'll say pick SMTIVA, and I suggest you watch a LP of SMTIV. Just my opinion.
If you do pick SMTIV, let me warn you, the map and the quest system are a continuous pain in the butt. Same with the endings, well, sorta.

 

12 hours ago, Jedi said:

Although i'm not entirely sure about the series direction after 4:Apocalypse considering while it was a  good game it tried too hard in certain aspects to be like Persona. Probably because western reviewers were pissed 4 wasn't like Persona in the first place.

An interesting thing about SMTIVA, is that it actually addressed the 'aligment problem' that SMTIV talked about in a serious, logical, manner, but meanwhile you have an annoying cast, full of friendship talk, and anime-esque scenes, which left me somewhat confused as to what they tried to do.

Moving on, it reminds of two factions, one called the Ring of Gaea, aligned with chaos, who appeared in almost every SMT, IV and IVA included. The second one, aligned with Law, is called the Order of Messiah, who did appeared in most games... but not SMTIV and IVA.
Yeah I know that member of the Ring of Gaea are called Gaeans, and that those of the Order of Messiah are called Messians, but I thought it was interesting enough to  be noted.
Put a like if you tried to recruit a Messians, only for said Messians to run with your money. :p