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Worst Fire Emblem Lord?


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6 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

What's worse is that the narrative credits Ike as the one to slay Ashnard and Ashera when in reality it was a team effort.

I fail to see how Ashnard was a "team effort" when the units you get that can even DAMAGE him are countable on one hand...

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24 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

A Laguz royal and Nasir. Ike didn't slay him on his own. 

It's no guarantee that the player will have Nasir (though admittedly, RD does assume that the BK was defeated in chapter 27). And from a story standpoint, racism is still a thing - look at what happened with Ranulf in chapter 11 when it was found out he was a laguz.

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9 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

It's no guarantee that the player will have Nasir (though admittedly, RD does assume that the BK was defeated in chapter 27). And from a story standpoint, racism is still a thing - look at what happened with Ranulf in chapter 11 when it was found out he was a laguz.

I'm going with canon so Nasir is there though it doesn't matter because I can just as easily say Ena. Though I can accept that explanation. Though it doesn't change the fact Elincia should also have been able to fell the Mad King. She does have the Amiti. Nevertheless, my criticism was about RD Ike because PoR Ike is well-written for the most part.  

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3 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I’ll give you that he’s a bad unit, no denying that ever, but how exactly does he have no resolve?  And he’s far from emotionally weak, he’s got a few self esteem issues but he doesn’t let that hamper him from doing what he needs to do.

Please elaborate.  What did Roy do to give you this impression?  When did he do it?  Why did it give you that impression?

He's bland, doesn't do a whole lot, and doesn't really show the capability to be a good leader very often. 

 

3 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Those other two at least had personalities - on the other hand, Sigurd has the personality of a block of wood.

Bro Ephraim had way less personality and also managed to be pretty annoying as well. 

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2 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

He's bland, doesn't do a whole lot, and doesn't really show the capability to be a good leader very often. 

Roy's one of the best lords in the franchise in terms of leadership ability.  See this thread for explanation because I don't feel like typing it out right now.

And you didn't answer my question.  How does being "bland" translate into having no resolve?  And how does he not do a whole lot?  He basically takes on dragons, the badass nation of unstoppable wyvern riders, Etruria's politics, and rebels, and he wins, while starting as a relatively minor noble in the grand scheme of things.  And again, how does that translate to having no resolve?

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6 hours ago, Icelerate said:

The problem with Ike being an ordinary mercenary is that for whatever reason, the writers decided to give the final bosses to Ike which doesn't make much sense because he lacks a connection with Ashnard, unlike Elincia. Unlike Micaiah, he has no connection with Ashera, so him getting the final boss kill is quite anticlimactic.

There was no problem with this. It was a bit more forced in RD, I'll give you that, but not in PoR. PoR Ike is very justified by having happened to find one of the only weapons capable of piercing Ashnard's armor early in the game. It wasn't like IS suddenly threw a goddess-blessed weapon at him just because.

RD Ike is not as well written as PoR Ike, but the problem there lies with his lack of development and lack of more spotlight for Micaiah. He doesn't steal the spotlight anymore than Yune does, and in fact, Yune is worse about it because she literally hijacks Micaiah. I don't know why people don't hate her as much if not more than RD Ike. Is it because she has the appearance of a cute little girl? :/

6 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Brom, Nephenee and Heather join Ike with no hesitation.

Uh, how about the fact that Ike originally RESCUED those first two in PoR? And Heather is there because of Nephenee, not because of Ike. It's Nephenee who recruits her.

6 hours ago, Icelerate said:

What's worse is that he's fed up with people so he abandons Tellius even though he promised Mist that he'll always be at her side and told Micaiah to go back to Daein as her people need her. How hypocritical. What the hell Ike.  

This is legitimately the only thing I don't like about Ike and the only point of yours that I completely agree with. PoR Ike is written wonderfully, imo. RD Ike is rather meh writing wise. But I love a lot of his lines and his design, so... :P

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

And Heather is there because of Nephenee, not because of Ike. It's Nephenee who recruits her.

I always seem to end up recruiting her with Brom in 2-1, so that's not true.

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5 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

I always recruit her with Brom.

...What? I know I read that only Nephenee can recruit Heather. But either way, she still joins because of them, not Ike.

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2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

...What? I know I read that only Heather can recruit Nephenee. But either way, she still joins because of them, not Ike.

Even with Brom, she joins because of Nephenee, since Brom mentions her I believe.

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

There was no problem with this. It was a bit more forced in RD, I'll give you that, but not in PoR. PoR Ike is very justified by having happened to find one of the only weapons capable of piercing Ashnard's armor early in the game. It wasn't like IS suddenly threw a goddess-blessed weapon at him just because.

RD Ike is not as well written as PoR Ike, but the problem there lies with his lack of development and lack of more spotlight for Micaiah. He doesn't steal the spotlight anymore than Yune does, and in fact, Yune is worse about it because she literally hijacks Micaiah. I don't know why people don't hate her as much if not more than RD Ike. Is it because she has the appearance of a cute little girl? :/

Uh, how about the fact that Ike originally RESCUED those first two in PoR? And Heather is there because of Nephenee, not because of Ike. It's Nephenee who recruits her.

This is legitimately the only thing I don't like about Ike and the only point of yours that I completely agree with. PoR Ike is written wonderfully, imo. RD Ike is rather meh writing wise. But I love a lot of his lines and his design, so... :P

Ike gets his own battle, last dibs on the boss and his own ending to name a few things Yune was not involved with while Micaiah/Yune are in the back. Heck, doesn't defeating Ashera without Ike cause Micaiah to chime in (according to the RD script on Serenes), effectively revealing that they could have swapped anytime? Ike arguably took too much attention, even if that IS indeed a bad reason to hate him.

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2 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Ike gets his own battle, last dibs on the boss and his own ending to name a few things Yune was not involved with while Micaiah/Yune are in the back. Heck, doesn't defeating Ashera without Ike cause Micaiah to chime in (according to the RD script on Serenes), effectively revealing that they could have swapped anytime? Ike arguably took too much attention, even if that IS indeed a bad reason to hate him.

Micaiah gets her own battle and her own ending too though...? Did you forget the chapter where it's just her and BK? BK is there to help, yeah, but it's still all about her.

Yune still did worse to Micaiah than Ike did imo.

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11 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

Roy is a shit lord. He's an awful unit and he has no resolve and is too weak to be a good main character. Micaiah suffers from similar problems. Lucina is extremely bland. Ike is Gary Stu III and his fans are annoying as all hell. All of them are pretty bad but fuck Corrin. Corrin is the most trash ass lord in the franchise. He's bland, weak, has no resolve, and the plot centers around him more than the other lords listed so he fucks up the rest of the plot way more. 

Sigurd was kind of a Gary Stu but he was a way better character than the other Gary Stus, Ephraim and Ike. 

Lucina is in Awakening and she's the more bland female version of Chrom. You can judge Ephraim and Eirika btw, they don't change at all throughout the game. Eliwood and Lyn aren't that bad of units at least in my experience

1. Sigurd got most of his army killed in a trap, not sure how that qualifies as a Gary Stu.

2. Are you just coming here to dump on other people's opinions?

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4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

There was no problem with this. It was a bit more forced in RD, I'll give you that, but not in PoR. PoR Ike is very justified by having happened to find one of the only weapons capable of piercing Ashnard's armor early in the game. It wasn't like IS suddenly threw a goddess-blessed weapon at him just because.

RD Ike is not as well written as PoR Ike, but the problem there lies with his lack of development and lack of more spotlight for Micaiah. He doesn't steal the spotlight anymore than Yune does, and in fact, Yune is worse about it because she literally hijacks Micaiah. I don't know why people don't hate her as much if not more than RD Ike. Is it because she has the appearance of a cute little girl? :/

Uh, how about the fact that Ike originally RESCUED those first two in PoR? And Heather is there because of Nephenee, not because of Ike. It's Nephenee who recruits her.

This is legitimately the only thing I don't like about Ike and the only point of yours that I completely agree with. PoR Ike is written wonderfully, imo. RD Ike is rather meh writing wise. But I love a lot of his lines and his design, so... :P

It doesn't change the fact there were more interesting candidates to kill Ashnard with a more personal connection who got screwed over. As an FE player, I want to be the one to decide who kills who which is how it is in the GBA games. Not sure why Tellius has this problem with its final bosses. 

Agreed that PoR Ike is well-written. Seeing him go from a naive and inexperienced leader of GM to a confident and strong leader of the liberation army is quite satisfying.

Yune being more important than Micaiah makes sense. Goddess>Apostle in terms of power, experience, intelligence and prestige. Though Apostle>Ogma in importance logically speaking. Unfortunately, this game throws logic out the window since apparently, the Ogma clone is now more important than someone with connections to the divine. Also, Yune has a more interesting personality than Ike but that's my personal opinion.  Though I do think it is quite silly that Yune needs to manifest herself in Micaiah when she's shown to be able to communicate with Ike in her spirit form. This game's writing by the endgame is terrible. Don't know why blood pacts get hate because the blood pacts are much better written than all of part 4 combined. 

Well rescuing someone doesn't mean they have to follow you around everywhere. Brom and Nephenee had already paid back their "debt" to Ike in the Mad King's War anyway. Heather follows Nephenee in chapter 2-1. After that, she follows Lucia and then Elincia. In part three, there is no female commander that Heather is following. Nephenee is not leading the Greil Mercenaries so Heather is following Ike. Though this is probably more of a developer oversight so I'll give you this one.  

Ike does have good lines, I'll admit. It's a shame that other characters don't get as many lines as Ike does. 

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2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

It doesn't change the fact there were more interesting candidates to kill Ashnard with a more personal connection who got screwed over. As an FE player, I want to be the one to decide who kills who which is how it is in the GBA games. Not sure why Tellius has this problem with its final bosses.

More interesting is subjective and strictly opinion.

2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Agreed that PoR Ike is well-written. Seeing him go from a naive and inexperienced leader of GM to a confident and strong leader of the liberation army is quite satisfying.

Exactly, and this is why RD Ike doesn't really deserve the hate he gets. Yeah, he's a bit bland and didn't get anymore development, but he's still the same person from PoR, just three years older. He carries all the development he got in PoR. By himself, RD Ike isn't well written, but he's not by himself when he's the same person that was in PoR but older. It's not fair to consider RD Ike so separate from his PoR self. All the respect he gets in RD is justified by his deeds in PoR.

6 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Yune being more important than Micaiah makes sense.

A minor character being more important than a main lord character makes sense? Uh...yeah, sure...

6 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Ike does have good lines, I'll admit. It's a shame that other characters don't get as many lines as Ike does. 

Well, it's kind of impossible when this game has a crap ton of characters.

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Just now, Anacybele said:

More interesting is subjective and strictly opinion.

Exactly, and this is why RD Ike doesn't really deserve the hate he gets. Yeah, he's a bit bland and didn't get anymore development, but he's still the same person from PoR, just three years older. He carries all the development he got in PoR. By himself, RD Ike isn't well written, but he's not by himself when he's the same person that was in PoR but older. It's not fair to consider RD Ike so separate from his PoR self. All the respect he gets in RD is justified by his deeds in PoR.

A minor character being more important than a main lord character makes sense? Uh...yeah, sure...

Well, it's kind of impossible when this game has a crap ton of characters.

People with a bigger connection to Ashnard? I know it is an opinion which is why any character should be allowed to hurt Ashnard to give the player more agency as its their playthrough. They should be allowed to play how they want. 

This doesn't make sense because PoR is three years in the past. Just because he's an interesting character in PoR doesn't mean he's interesting in RD. I'm not saying he shouldn't be respected, feared and a badass one-man army. He most certainly should but various things in my post which I mentioned make him a rather poorly written character who ends up dragging down other characters.

Yune isn't a minor character. Goddess is obviously going to surpass lord in pretty much everything. 

They did a good job in balancing things prior to endgame.  

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3 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

People with a bigger connection to Ashnard? I know it is an opinion which is why any character should be allowed to hurt Ashnard to give the player more agency as its their playthrough. They should be allowed to play how they want.

Other people don't have a weapon that could pierce his armor though, unless their name is Tibarn. Though I'm not sure why he's able to damage Ashnard. It wouldn't make sense if all of a sudden anyone could hurt him.

5 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

This doesn't make sense because PoR is three years in the past. Just because he's an interesting character in PoR doesn't mean he's interesting in RD. I'm not saying he shouldn't be respected, feared and a badass one-man army. He most certainly should but various things in my post which I mentioned make him a rather poorly written character who ends up dragging down other characters.

It makes perfect sense. RD Ike and PoR Ike are not separate people, they're the same person. You have to take into account Ike's actions in PoR to see if some of what has been done with him in RD is justified and it is justified. Did you read anything I said here?

5 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Yune isn't a minor character.

...Except she is? She literally doesn't even appear until part 4.

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Just now, Anacybele said:

Other people don't have a weapon that could pierce his armor though, unless their name is Tibarn. Though I'm not sure why he's able to damage Ashnard. It wouldn't make sense if all of a sudden anyone could hurt him.

It makes perfect sense. RD Ike and PoR Ike are not separate people, they're the same person. You have to take into account Ike's actions in PoR to see if some of what has been done with him in RD is justified and it is justified. Did you read anything I said here?

...Except she is? She literally doesn't even appear until part 4.

There is no point in giving him blessed armour in the first place. What a convenient way of having Ike "solo" Ashnard. 

PoR Ike doesn't excuse nor justify RD Ike's writing. It is possible to write a lord in a different arc by giving them more characterization. Part one and part three both developed Micaiah's character very well. Part 3 doesn't do much to Ike even though Elincia is developed very well in part 2 despite appearing in PoR.  

It doesn't matter if she doesn't appear until part 4. Yune and Ashera are the leaders of their respective parties. 

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9 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Other people don't have a weapon that could pierce his armor though, unless their name is Tibarn. Though I'm not sure why he's able to damage Ashnard. It wouldn't make sense if all of a sudden anyone could hurt him.

The writers could've easily just not given Ashnard a blessed armor. In fact, narrative-wise, said armor makes no sense. And the Black Knight's, for that matter. They're blessed, but other than that, nothing else is known. Altina was never stated to use armor, and Dheginsea and Soan would not need them. Since the Ashera-Blessed Ragnell is needed to pierce the blessing, it could implied they're Yune-blessed. But Yune in RD says...

Quote

“I failed then… But this time will be different. I’ll use Ashera’s own tricks, and I won’t be defeated. Everyone… Take some time now to ready yourselves. Beorc, be sure to equip your best weapons. I’ll begin when everyone’s ready.”

That shows she never did such a thing until she did during the events of RD. So the armors... don't really have any sort of history until PoR itself. Methinks they're there just for the game's convenience. No background for either whatsoever.

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6 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

PoR Ike doesn't excuse nor justify RD Ike's writing. It is possible to write a lord in a different arc by giving them more characterization. Part one and part three both developed Micaiah's character very well. Part 3 doesn't do much to Ike even though Elincia is developed very well in part 2 despite appearing in PoR.  

But it IS justified, at least mostly. Like I keep saying over and over, the reason RD Ike gets as much respect as he does is because of his deeds in PoR. Yet people still paint him as a Stu because they think he's praised by everyone for no reason when this is NOT true.

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The writers could've easily just not given Ashnard a blessed armor. In fact, narrative-wise, said armor makes no sense. And the Black Knight's, for that matter. They're blessed, but other than that, nothing else is known. Altina was never stated to use armor, and Dheginsea and Soan would not need them. Since the Ashera-Blessed Ragnell is needed to pierce the blessing, it could implied they're Yune-blessed. But Yune in RD says...

Could still be Ashera blessing too, though. So nothing really contradicts this.

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34 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

It doesn't change the fact there were more interesting candidates to kill Ashnard with a more personal connection who got screwed over. As an FE player, I want to be the one to decide who kills who which is how it is in the GBA games. Not sure why Tellius has this problem with its final bosses. 

I dunno about this - you mentioned Elincia earlier, but even if Ashnard could be damaged by anyone, she'd do a big fat goose egg. (Ashnard has 35 Defence, and Elincia only caps at 20 Strength)

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Just now, Anacybele said:

But it IS justified, at least mostly. Like I keep saying over and over, the reason RD Ike gets as much respect as he does is because of his deeds in PoR. Yet people still paint him as a Stu because they think he's praised by everyone for no reason when this is NOT true.

Could still be Ashera blessing too, though. So nothing really contradicts this.

1

Never said Ike doesn't deserve to be praised. He's a Stu because of things that occur at the end of the game. I'm mostly fine with Ike's role in part 3 although he's far from the most interesting character. 

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3 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I dunno about this - you mentioned Elincia earlier, but even if Ashnard could be damaged by anyone, she'd do a big fat goose egg. (Ashnard has 35 Defence, and Elincia only caps at 20 Strength)

I didn't know that weapon forges didn't exist. Tauroneo is my favourite PoR character and Jill is my second. I want to be able to use those two to kill Ashnard. It would be interesting to see the two former Daein warriors go at it against Ashnard. 

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