Jump to content

Koei is apparently very happy with the sales


Recommended Posts

34 minutes ago, Motendra said:

I don't want to get back into this, but while this point is technically true with them being costumes, the official site treats them as such with their own [numbered] character page. Matter fact, when you count them, the actual playable character count becomes 25, which would have made for a nice number to stop at, instead of the odd 23

If only they didn't have virtually the same battle dialogue. It think I've found one difference and that's their double warrior finishing line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 195
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

27 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

If only they didn't have virtually the same battle dialogue. It think I've found one difference and that's their double warrior finishing line.

The differences are minor to accommodate that they're the same person, only gender swapped. It would have been a nice touch if they at least differentiated the Corrins due to their differences in paths. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Motendra said:

The differences are minor to accommodate that they're the same person, only gender swapped. It would have been a nice touch if they at least differentiated the Corrins due to their differences in paths. 

They had different dialogue in both Awakening (see every second gen and spotpass support) and Smash (victory quotes and most taunts). They have mild differences in character, enough that their one liners should deviate a little.

Plus, I mean, if you're going to bring in someone else to record more lines, might as well have them spice it up a little. That said, I do think male Robin has a genuinely better voice actor. He seems to put more effort into it. Like the morning (I think it's morning) menu thing. He actually yawns a good bit while female Robin is much more flat. So their delivery can differ.

Edited by Arthur97
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, guedesbrawl said:

No, Importance applies to the female siblings as well between being recurrent boss fights and having important moments in the story, all of the royals have importance.

Uniqueness comes from movesets. Which characters have the most potential for said uniqueness? Fates's. The only people this isn't true for is Elise and Hinoka, who are convenient clones.

Again, IS would never let you do that with Lucina. The mere fact that you are using DLC to justify your holes should speak to your roster's integrity. You need lots of DLC to get all of the games represented, and represented well. There is not as much of a burden with focus games.

Oswin is not the only unique character you added. Hector, Ike and Jeorge (unless he can use Wind magic or you plan to dumb down Takumi), Soren(unless you are suggesting a Wind specialist as a Robin clone) and Mist (unless you mean she was supposed to be Staff!Xander) would all need new movesets. There isn't a clone equivalent for all of them. It's easy to make a better roster when you give yourself so much more resources. Be realistic.

I actually despise Elise's character. She's annoying. Even if she was my precious waifu it doesn't change that she already represented Valkyrie since her base class is Troubadour. This is not a point you have over the main roster, and in fact, it's something that wouldn't go through because Mist starts on-foot and gets a pony. Her identity is of a cleric. Unlike Eliwood, Mist is not important enough to have this factor overlooked when Tellius comes up.

You had PoR as a focus game but no Elincia, and not a single Laguz. Fates is missing royals. You would place random-ass Jeorge over so many other more important or iconic characters like Minerva, Camus, Linde, Ogma, Navarre and Merric. As much as I loathe to say it, Lucina is also missing and is important enough to be in the base game. DLC!Azura got enough of a backlash, Lucina would be suicide. And IS wouldn't let you.

DLCina. This amuses me.

 

Again the fates characters missing are coming just at a latter time and the only ones i left out are elise and sakura not everyone.

The Lucina comes from the unwillingness to offer up fates slots from folts part i had to make adjustsments because your both nether willing to or able to.

Hector could share some stuff with Lissa with an adjusted moveset for it's possible. Ike uses sword and as such can take stuff from the others around and so on surely not every part but parts and it really isn't that much more resources that im using. And if im removing lets say Mist i reduce the sources to the level of the game even further now i have one character less but some uniqueness. Something you have fix next game when have these resources more to fall back on.

I changed Mist Identity for uniqueness and getting another horse in, but if it's fates it's unwanted so remove her or make her a marth clone that should reduce work enough.

I used Jeorge as place holder because he's a bow user and i said in the roster post you mentioned that the Jeorge slot is a wildcard and can be changed if need be. Read everything.

What should I go for tell me uniqueness or clones because if i use one you want the other and vice verca. I tried gunning for more balance i got that. More classes i got that. Remove them add clones and we get less workload. Find a balance that works. It was just a suggestion with room for improvement.

And by the way this is a roster i expected IS to suggest to Koei to a certain extend. Because if anything IS should want more games to be represented.

And since i came this to a roster even you would despite making little to no compromise. Your only nitpicking single characters and uniqueness clones which could be adjusted, it's safe to say 4 focus games should satisfy you and your kind to at least 90% and thats certainly more important to satisfy 80% of yor demands, but raising other peoples satisfaction level by decent amounts.

7 hours ago, dmurr said:

I know, right?

Why are we still arguing about the roster? We got what we got, let's move on. Since they're happy with the sales then maybe now we can start thinking about who would be great in the sequel. Hyrule Warriors Legends came out about a year and a half after Hyrule Warriors, but it also needed the work to port it. They'd probably add more new content into a sequel though, so I'd think it's reasonable to expect a similar timeframe. Maybe end of year next year or early 2019. I doubt we'd get a full focus on the new game since it's supposed to come out next year, more likely we'd get one character a la Celica. 

Of course you can't change the game now. Im arguing about the roster something that could have unified the fandom to a certain extend didn't. Something like Ike is in and Titania sweet, Chrom and Frederick too good for you and Takumi and Camilla good for there fans as well. They centralised happiness instead of spreading it.

And this is a forum to discuss things so i want to voice my opinion on the matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are using DLC to patch up holes when you already said all the sequels (and most likely JUgdral and Magvel) would be getting DLC packs. It's a lot to handle and since Zelda only got 3 character DLC packs at base (For 8 movesets) it's ABSURDLY unlikely for you to patch up all of the holes in your roster since it's gunning for every FE. You aren't getting that much more DLC than Zelda did even with clones (note that right now we have 6,5 unique movesets for DLC, with Oboro counting as half and assuming only the other NPCs are clones).

You are missing far too much stuff to tackle in a single game, but when you come at us with the pretense of repping the whole series, the product will just come across as disappointing to every side of the fanbase rather than at least make the currently most important side happy.

Lucina comes from a place where it doesn't matter. Your roster is literally impossible without her at base as a clone or otherwise. And without one of Celica or Alm,your roster is also impossible.

Hector cannot share stuff with Lissa. They don't have the same build and Lissa is built to have an axe moveset coming from a little girl that can barely stand the weapon's weight. Hector is a huge guy. It's not happening. Similarly, Ike's uses a 2H sword while nobody else does this. His moveset needs a sort of weight to it and cloning from the faster swordsmen would be a disaster. This is just not how cloning works

Mist doesn't bring up a whole lot of uniqueness in a game where Xander does Sword Pony but better. If she's not a clone and that won't fly because of Xander's abuse of darkness effects and range, she's simply a bad pick like Navarre/Lyn was for the game we got.

I fully realize Jeorge was a placeholder of sorts. But i felt the need to point it out because he is not a viable pick when cloning from Takumi and neither was Anna, whom i suspect got in the way she is as a F you from KT to IS/ninty for forcing their hand like that, and simply a result of you being unwilling to take the better choice for Bow2 in Sakura because of some contrived idea about slots-per-game, prefering instead to take a less unique, less important, less popular, less recent character that doesn't even cater much to the fanbase he belongs to beyond simply being an extra number in the slot math.

I have no problem with unique stuff, it certainly beats most if not all clone picks one can make. But it's very easy to make a "better" roster than KT when you give yourself the money and time to make so many more unique movesets. We got a game with 15 movesets at base and 8 clones, and we were supposed to get an extra base moveset in Oboro if not for Anna/Lyn/Celica being forced. So 16+8 is more or less the standard you should aim unless you are doing a "just for fun" roster. You are instead offering a serious alternative for the roster, supposedly, but one that is considerably more expensive/time-consuming and of all things you suggest cutting alternate costumes and adding 100% original characters in their place. Realistically unfeasible, idealistically will be better by sheer numeric advantage. It serves no purpose.

It's not in IS or Nintendo or KT's best interest to rep all the games in one go. Not only all of them realize this will just half-ass every entry they include, but it makes the games they CAN sell well at this point in time (Awakening and Fates) have a reduced spotlight. Look at Heroes. They are always doing Awakening/Fates for special heroes because they want to cater to their biggest fanbase AND try to get more people to bolster this number. Lastly, they also want enough content to make future warriors special and noteworthy.

Look at the roster we got, with the planned DLC.

Fates will be basically 100% done. All of the royals are in and they double not only as the game's most important characters, but as the biggest faces. Niles and Oboro tackle the important nobody slots, and thanks to them and the royals being so popular, the only noteworthy picks the game is missing is Jakob and that's because the game has no daggers. He's only the 4th top male in Japan, while everyone else form the top 7 of both genders are already in.

Awakening's 3 lords are in covering all of the importance slots. Frederick and Lissa are strong faces for the game, while Tharja, Cordelia, Owain and Olivia fill the popular nobody slots. The only big missing people are Severa who would never get in because of her bland moveset, and Gaius who is probably damned because of future picks. (Sothe is bound to be in the next game if it's a Tellius deal, and Gaius's moveset comes too close to what he'd do). The popular characters we are missing lose slots because of their competition being more unique (Cherche-Camilla, Lon'qu-Ryoma), more popular (Henry-Tharja) or are already in but younger (Tiki). The important characters we are missing are just Basilio, Flavia and Say'ri, and all of them are very low on the popularity scale on top of not being THAT important.

Shadow Dragon is the only one with an actual big shot missing in Camus (who is not even a playable unit there), everyone else that matters is in. The rest of the missing picks are admittedly iconic, but not important, have questionable and unproven popularity since they are from the oldest games, and compete with far more important or unique people from future games (Merric-Soren, Ogma-Ike, etc). Camus, however, has AMAZING chances to get in as Zeke via a future Shadows of Valentia pack which will likely happen because IS is a business and they WILL want to push their most recent product, as well as Amiibo. That's not considering how a future game could focus on New Mystery to add the remaining people we lack.

With a total of 12 people from Fates, 9 from awakening, and 6 from SD, we actually ended up covering almost 100% of the viable, important and popular picks, with the only missing people being acceptable compromises for more valuable characters from games that would come in the future.

This is actually feasible for every game down the line if KT keeps doing the "3 focus games per musou" deal.

Look at Tellius for example. Assuming it gets the same slots that Awakening did for a sequel, that's enough for:

*Ike and Micaiah, the protagonists

*Sothe and Soren, their lancers

*Black Knight, the iconic villain

*Elincia, the actual lord in terms of plot weight

*A Bird Tribe Laguz (Tibarn) and a Beast Tribe Laguz (A POR Cat or our Lion King)

*A possible extra pick to fill a niche that FESwitch and the other/previous focus games might fail to cover (Boyd, Pelleas, Geoffrey if i'm wrong about Camus).

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, guedesbrawl said:

You are using DLC to patch up holes when you already said all the sequels (and most likely JUgdral and Magvel) would be getting DLC packs. It's a lot to handle and since Zelda only got 3 character DLC packs at base (For 8 movesets) it's ABSURDLY unlikely for you to patch up all of the holes in your roster since it's gunning for every FE. You aren't getting that much more DLC than Zelda did even with clones (note that right now we have 6,5 unique movesets for DLC, with Oboro counting as half and assuming only the other NPCs are clones).

You are missing far too much stuff to tackle in a single game, but when you come at us with the pretense of repping the whole series, the product will just come across as disappointing to every side of the fanbase rather than at least make the currently most important side happy.

Lucina comes from a place where it doesn't matter. Your roster is literally impossible without her at base as a clone or otherwise. And without one of Celica or Alm,your roster is also impossible.

Hector cannot share stuff with Lissa. They don't have the same build and Lissa is built to have an axe moveset coming from a little girl that can barely stand the weapon's weight. Hector is a huge guy. It's not happening. Similarly, Ike's uses a 2H sword while nobody else does this. His moveset needs a sort of weight to it and cloning from the faster swordsmen would be a disaster. This is just not how cloning works

Mist doesn't bring up a whole lot of uniqueness in a game where Xander does Sword Pony but better. If she's not a clone and that won't fly because of Xander's abuse of darkness effects and range, she's simply a bad pick like Navarre/Lyn was for the game we got.

I fully realize Jeorge was a placeholder of sorts. But i felt the need to point it out because he is not a viable pick when cloning from Takumi and neither was Anna, whom i suspect got in the way she is as a F you from KT to IS/ninty for forcing their hand like that, and simply a result of you being unwilling to take the better choice for Bow2 in Sakura because of some contrived idea about slots-per-game, prefering instead to take a less unique, less important, less popular, less recent character that doesn't even cater much to the fanbase he belongs to beyond simply being an extra number in the slot math.

I have no problem with unique stuff, it certainly beats most if not all clone picks one can make. But it's very easy to make a "better" roster than KT when you give yourself the money and time to make so many more unique movesets. We got a game with 15 movesets at base and 8 clones, and we were supposed to get an extra base moveset in Oboro if not for Anna/Lyn/Celica being forced. So 16+8 is more or less the standard you should aim unless you are doing a "just for fun" roster. You are instead offering a serious alternative for the roster, supposedly, but one that is considerably more expensive/time-consuming and of all things you suggest cutting alternate costumes and adding 100% original characters in their place. Realistically unfeasible, idealistically will be better by sheer numeric advantage. It serves no purpose.

It's not in IS or Nintendo or KT's best interest to rep all the games in one go. Not only all of them realize this will just half-ass every entry they include, but it makes the games they CAN sell well at this point in time (Awakening and Fates) have a reduced spotlight. Look at Heroes. They are always doing Awakening/Fates for special heroes because they want to cater to their biggest fanbase AND try to get more people to bolster this number. Lastly, they also want enough content to make future warriors special and noteworthy.

Look at the roster we got, with the planned DLC.

Fates will be basically 100% done. All of the royals are in and they double not only as the game's most important characters, but as the biggest faces. Niles and Oboro tackle the important nobody slots, and thanks to them and the royals being so popular, the only noteworthy picks the game is missing is Jakob and that's because the game has no daggers. He's only the 4th top male in Japan, while everyone else form the top 7 of both genders are already in.

Awakening's 3 lords are in covering all of the importance slots. Frederick and Lissa are strong faces for the game, while Tharja, Cordelia, Owain and Olivia fill the popular nobody slots. The only big missing people are Severa who would never get in because of her bland moveset, and Gaius who is probably damned because of future picks. (Sothe is bound to be in the next game if it's a Tellius deal, and Gaius's moveset comes too close to what he'd do). The popular characters we are missing lose slots because of their competition being more unique (Cherche-Camilla, Lon'qu-Ryoma), more popular (Henry-Tharja) or are already in but younger (Tiki). The important characters we are missing are just Basilio, Flavia and Say'ri, and all of them are very low on the popularity scale on top of not being THAT important.

Shadow Dragon is the only one with an actual big shot missing in Camus (who is not even a playable unit there), everyone else that matters is in. The rest of the missing picks are admittedly iconic, but not important, have questionable and unproven popularity since they are from the oldest games, and compete with far more important or unique people from future games (Merric-Soren, Ogma-Ike, etc). Camus, however, has AMAZING chances to get in as Zeke via a future Shadows of Valentia pack which will likely happen because IS is a business and they WILL want to push their most recent product, as well as Amiibo. That's not considering how a future game could focus on New Mystery to add the remaining people we lack.

With a total of 12 people from Fates, 9 from awakening, and 6 from SD, we actually ended up covering almost 100% of the viable, important and popular picks, with the only missing people being acceptable compromises for more valuable characters from games that would come in the future.

This is actually feasible for every game down the line if KT keeps doing the "3 focus games per musou" deal.

Look at Tellius for example. Assuming it gets the same slots that Awakening did for a sequel, that's enough for:

*Ike and Micaiah, the protagonists

*Sothe and Soren, their lancers

*Black Knight, the iconic villain

*Elincia, the actual lord in terms of plot weight

*A Bird Tribe Laguz (Tibarn) and a Beast Tribe Laguz (A POR Cat or our Lion King)

*A possible extra pick to fill a niche that FESwitch and the other/previous focus games might fail to cover (Boyd, Pelleas, Geoffrey if i'm wrong about Camus).

 

 

I would also add Nasir. He represents a strong subplot in PoR and would make a great Tiki-esque character. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Etheus said:

I would also add Nasir. He represents a strong subplot in PoR and would make a great Tiki-esque character. 

Considering the gimmick they used with Tiki, I honestly find it VERY unlikely we'll get another dragon. That being said a Tellius dragon would indeed be the best bet, but I think Kurthnaga has the better shot. Nasir isn't a guaranteed reveal in PoR and comes WAY too late in both games. You'd need to be a pretty strong representative of the game to pull off a slot from that, like Tiki did. But who knows.

Or they could say Lmao and do Ashnard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, guedesbrawl said:

Considering the gimmick they used with Tiki, I honestly find it VERY unlikely we'll get another dragon. That being said a Tellius dragon would indeed be the best bet, but I think Kurthnaga has the better shot. Nasir isn't a guaranteed reveal in PoR and comes WAY too late in both games. You'd need to be a pretty strong representative of the game to pull off a slot from that, like Tiki did. But who knows.

Or they could say Lmao and do Ashnard.

I don't know. I kind of feel like PoR will have much more weight for consideration than RD in general. PoR is just a more iconic game.

Plus, Kurthnaga, despite being the dragon prince, was entirely forgettable, IMO. Both Nasir and Kurthnaga were only playable at the endgame (and were pretty sub-par units), but Nasir has plot involvement from the middle of PoR onward, being Ike's main advisor and then betraying him to reveal a major subplot with Ena and Ashnard. Nasir is basically our window into the background of Soren and the royal family of Daein and is thus one of the most plot-important characters in the game, despite his limited time on the battlefield. Kurthnaga, on the other hand, just kind of shows up and essentially does nothing of interest with the plot. I outright forgot that he even existed because he just failed to make any sort of impression whatsoever.

Edited by Etheus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

TBH I find both to be unlikely. Tiki's gimmick is just too damning for another dragon's chances, and in fact also hurts any non-royal Laguz's chances, imo.

PoR and RD could get a 2:1 split, if you consider the Black Knight as a RD rep.

*Ike, Soren, Elincia, Tibarn, Caineghis, (Boyd?)

*Micaiah, Sothe, Black Knight.

The problem is that they are all unique, but how much this is feasible depends on the other games involved and how they'd handle this game's clones in the sequel.

Edited by guedesbrawl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, guedesbrawl said:

You are using DLC to patch up holes when you already said all the sequels (and most likely JUgdral and Magvel) would be getting DLC packs. It's a lot to handle and since Zelda only got 3 character DLC packs at base (For 8 movesets) it's ABSURDLY unlikely for you to patch up all of the holes in your roster since it's gunning for every FE. You aren't getting that much more DLC than Zelda did even with clones (note that right now we have 6,5 unique movesets for DLC, with Oboro counting as half and assuming only the other NPCs are clones).

You are missing far too much stuff to tackle in a single game, but when you come at us with the pretense of repping the whole series, the product will just come across as disappointing to every side of the fanbase rather than at least make the currently most important side happy.

Lucina comes from a place where it doesn't matter. Your roster is literally impossible without her at base as a clone or otherwise. And without one of Celica or Alm,your roster is also impossible.

Hector cannot share stuff with Lissa. They don't have the same build and Lissa is built to have an axe moveset coming from a little girl that can barely stand the weapon's weight. Hector is a huge guy. It's not happening. Similarly, Ike's uses a 2H sword while nobody else does this. His moveset needs a sort of weight to it and cloning from the faster swordsmen would be a disaster. This is just not how cloning works

Mist doesn't bring up a whole lot of uniqueness in a game where Xander does Sword Pony but better. If she's not a clone and that won't fly because of Xander's abuse of darkness effects and range, she's simply a bad pick like Navarre/Lyn was for the game we got.

I fully realize Jeorge was a placeholder of sorts. But i felt the need to point it out because he is not a viable pick when cloning from Takumi and neither was Anna, whom i suspect got in the way she is as a F you from KT to IS/ninty for forcing their hand like that, and simply a result of you being unwilling to take the better choice for Bow2 in Sakura because of some contrived idea about slots-per-game, prefering instead to take a less unique, less important, less popular, less recent character that doesn't even cater much to the fanbase he belongs to beyond simply being an extra number in the slot math.

I have no problem with unique stuff, it certainly beats most if not all clone picks one can make. But it's very easy to make a "better" roster than KT when you give yourself the money and time to make so many more unique movesets. We got a game with 15 movesets at base and 8 clones, and we were supposed to get an extra base moveset in Oboro if not for Anna/Lyn/Celica being forced. So 16+8 is more or less the standard you should aim unless you are doing a "just for fun" roster. You are instead offering a serious alternative for the roster, supposedly, but one that is considerably more expensive/time-consuming and of all things you suggest cutting alternate costumes and adding 100% original characters in their place. Realistically unfeasible, idealistically will be better by sheer numeric advantage. It serves no purpose.

It's not in IS or Nintendo or KT's best interest to rep all the games in one go. Not only all of them realize this will just half-ass every entry they include, but it makes the games they CAN sell well at this point in time (Awakening and Fates) have a reduced spotlight. Look at Heroes. They are always doing Awakening/Fates for special heroes because they want to cater to their biggest fanbase AND try to get more people to bolster this number. Lastly, they also want enough content to make future warriors special and noteworthy.

Look at the roster we got, with the planned DLC.

Fates will be basically 100% done. All of the royals are in and they double not only as the game's most important characters, but as the biggest faces. Niles and Oboro tackle the important nobody slots, and thanks to them and the royals being so popular, the only noteworthy picks the game is missing is Jakob and that's because the game has no daggers. He's only the 4th top male in Japan, while everyone else form the top 7 of both genders are already in.

Awakening's 3 lords are in covering all of the importance slots. Frederick and Lissa are strong faces for the game, while Tharja, Cordelia, Owain and Olivia fill the popular nobody slots. The only big missing people are Severa who would never get in because of her bland moveset, and Gaius who is probably damned because of future picks. (Sothe is bound to be in the next game if it's a Tellius deal, and Gaius's moveset comes too close to what he'd do). The popular characters we are missing lose slots because of their competition being more unique (Cherche-Camilla, Lon'qu-Ryoma), more popular (Henry-Tharja) or are already in but younger (Tiki). The important characters we are missing are just Basilio, Flavia and Say'ri, and all of them are very low on the popularity scale on top of not being THAT important.

Shadow Dragon is the only one with an actual big shot missing in Camus (who is not even a playable unit there), everyone else that matters is in. The rest of the missing picks are admittedly iconic, but not important, have questionable and unproven popularity since they are from the oldest games, and compete with far more important or unique people from future games (Merric-Soren, Ogma-Ike, etc). Camus, however, has AMAZING chances to get in as Zeke via a future Shadows of Valentia pack which will likely happen because IS is a business and they WILL want to push their most recent product, as well as Amiibo. That's not considering how a future game could focus on New Mystery to add the remaining people we lack.

With a total of 12 people from Fates, 9 from awakening, and 6 from SD, we actually ended up covering almost 100% of the viable, important and popular picks, with the only missing people being acceptable compromises for more valuable characters from games that would come in the future.

This is actually feasible for every game down the line if KT keeps doing the "3 focus games per musou" deal.

Look at Tellius for example. Assuming it gets the same slots that Awakening did for a sequel, that's enough for:

*Ike and Micaiah, the protagonists

*Sothe and Soren, their lancers

*Black Knight, the iconic villain

*Elincia, the actual lord in terms of plot weight

*A Bird Tribe Laguz (Tibarn) and a Beast Tribe Laguz (A POR Cat or our Lion King)

*A possible extra pick to fill a niche that FESwitch and the other/previous focus games might fail to cover (Boyd, Pelleas, Geoffrey if i'm wrong about Camus).

 

 

Im only using dlc because you won't compromise on fates reps. And when the game itself uses dlc to patch things up ( terrible shadow dragon representation (only 3)) why can't i do it.

Im not gunning for a full roster with one game. I already said that.

Why is one of celica or alm important and one could debate lucina coming in for someone else if can't compromise again.

Clone potential =/= clones i said potential.

Mist can be as unique as Elise. It's just your favoritism in the way.

I want a fair roster with a reasonable timeframe for all games to be represented. Like i said many times in the end by the time your games have full representation our rosters are the same my fates will be as 100% as yours. I just want the possibility for all games in a reasonable time. You don't.

Your just using popularity and only this. Take one for the team. Just because some are more popular doesn't make them or there fans better. Give them more but not that much.

Now your using dlc to make your point but i can't.

Are you putting a villain in the tellius roster this game didn't put villains in the roster. I hope you mean just as a villain because thats how this game handled it.

I would also add laguz, but you denied that demanding fates gets all the uniqueness.

Look i made a template for a roster with little difference 8 characters. I could remove a character and the workload would about equal that of the game. I put the missing few fates characters in from game 4 onward provided we would get this far which isn't certain. But this way guarentees 5+ characters for every game by game 3. Yours at the earliest by game 5. With game 4 and 5 i add the ones missing were the same on the roster. But i gave sacred stones lovers 3 games, Thracia lovers 3 games while you give them one while taking 5 for fates and awakening it isn't fair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, TheRadiantKnight said:

Im only using dlc because you won't compromise on fates reps. And when the game itself uses dlc to patch things up ( terrible shadow dragon representation (only 3)) why can't i do it.

Im not gunning for a full roster with one game. I already said that.

Why is one of celica or alm important and one could debate lucina coming in for someone else if can't compromise again.

Clone potential =/= clones i said potential.

Mist can be as unique as Elise. It's just your favoritism in the way.

I want a fair roster with a reasonable timeframe for all games to be represented. Like i said many times in the end by the time your games have full representation our rosters are the same my fates will be as 100% as yours. I just want the possibility for all games in a reasonable time. You don't.

Your just using popularity and only this. Take one for the team. Just because some are more popular doesn't make them or there fans better. Give them more but not that much.

Now your using dlc to make your point but i can't.

Are you putting a villain in the tellius roster this game didn't put villains in the roster. I hope you mean just as a villain because thats how this game handled it.

I would also add laguz, but you denied that demanding fates gets all the uniqueness.

Look i made a template for a roster with little difference 8 characters. I could remove a character and the workload would about equal that of the game. I put the missing few fates characters in from game 4 onward provided we would get this far which isn't certain. But this way guarentees 5+ characters for every game by game 3. Yours at the earliest by game 5. With game 4 and 5 i add the ones missing were the same on the roster. But i gave sacred stones lovers 3 games, Thracia lovers 3 games while you give them one while taking 5 for fates and awakening it isn't fair.

There are a few problems with your criteria.

1) Equal or near equal representation for all games is implausible or even outright silly. Roster sizes vary by game, as do the number of important, iconic characters.

2) Focus games are good for coherent storytelling and leave more room for sequels. 

3) All dlc characters have one thing in common. They are not important to the plot of Warriors. Even Azura - arguably the most plot important character in Fates, is irrelevant to the Hoshido vs. Nohr family decision that IS and KT chose to focus on for this game. The idea of slotting in plot important characters like Ryoma and Leo as dlc is simply asinine at best. Dlc is for characters that have popularity but lack importance to the chosen plotline.

4) You ask that popularity and storyline importance be secondary to "uniqueness," but that simply isn't plausible. Koei has to represent the series as effectively and concisely as possible. That means that popularity and storyline importance are by far the most important criteria. It then becomes Koei's job to make their selections feel unique to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can use DLC to patch up Fates. You won't be able to use DLC to add the sequels and patch up everything else. Meaning you will end up with half-assed content throughout your entire roster by being too greedy with the number of games.

That's the difference between DLC here and in your roster. DLC in our world just completes what the 3 focus games needed to be fully represented where it doesn't hurt another game.

Yes, why is Celica or Alm important. It's not like they are the lords of the most recent game or anything. I'm starting to think you're just a troll between these things and the rushed writing. I'd say maybe you're just a kid but wanting classic FE and being a kid at this point, unlikely.

A clone can only be a clone if there is an original. The characters you chose instead of the clones for the most part don't. 

Mist and Elise is nothing about uniqueness. You simply took Elise out, added Mist, and said "Valkyrie get" as if Elise didn't represent that anyways in all but name. That's all I pointed out. You didn't "add" a class with that trade.

You want a game that had more money and time pumped into it. That's fine. But trying to offer your idea as 'they could've done that' when they couldn't even complete the NPCs? Delusional.

Black Knight is not just a villain. He was a playable character. And unlike the Robin clone trio, he is a popular character. The Dark Mages were intentionally chosen to be the unpopular guys so that the fanbase wouldn't want them in like they did with Hyrule Warriors, allowing them to focus on other people.

I said nothing about excluding laguz for fates. Fates doesn't compete for uniqueness with Laguz. I said that Fates's unique characters trump people from the same classes, and that holds true just for the ones that got in, aside from clones.

Again, it's not little difference. You cut clones and added 100% original characters. You cut alt.costumes and added 100% original characters or clones. That's not how it works. It's easier to make a "better" game if you give yourself more resources, any monkey can pull that off.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Etheus said:

There are a few problems with your criteria.

1) Equal or near equal representation for all games is implausible or even outright silly. Roster sizes vary by game, as do the number of important, iconic characters.

2) Focus games are good for coherent storytelling and leave more room for sequels. 

3) All dlc characters have one thing in common. They are not important to the plot of Warriors. Even Azura - arguably the most plot important character in Fates, is irrelevant to the Hoshido vs. Nohr family decision that IS and KT chose to focus on for this game. The idea of slotting in plot important characters like Ryoma and Leo as dlc is simply asinine at best. Dlc is for characters that have popularity but lack importance to the chosen plotline.

4) You ask that popularity and storyline importance be secondary to "uniqueness," but that simply isn't plausible. Koei has to represent the series as effectively and concisely as possible. That means that popularity and storyline importance are by far the most important criteria. It then becomes Koei's job to make their selections feel unique to play.

1) roster sizes vary by games true that why i suggested an non equal roster with 5! games giving fates more reps then the other games.

2) I have focus games as well just two more.

3) Of course you would have to change the plot of this warriors game obviously. And i also suggested a roste including the characters you mentioned please take everything i said in consideration.

4) Uniqueness is something Folt demanded to be in and be exclusive to fates. And I balanced uniqueness with importance.

I want at some point sooner rather than later to represent the series you make it sound i like i want all games in FEW 1 no matter what despite me making compromise after compromise in reducing the games.

44 minutes ago, guedesbrawl said:

You can use DLC to patch up Fates. You won't be able to use DLC to add the sequels and patch up everything else. Meaning you will end up with half-assed content throughout your entire roster by being too greedy with the number of games.

That's the difference between DLC here and in your roster. DLC in our world just completes what the 3 focus games needed to be fully represented where it doesn't hurt another game.

Yes, why is Celica or Alm important. It's not like they are the lords of the most recent game or anything. I'm starting to think you're just a troll between these things and the rushed writing. I'd say maybe you're just a kid but wanting classic FE and being a kid at this point, unlikely.

A clone can only be a clone if there is an original. The characters you chose instead of the clones for the most part don't. 

Mist and Elise is nothing about uniqueness. You simply took Elise out, added Mist, and said "Valkyrie get" as if Elise didn't represent that anyways in all but name. That's all I pointed out. You didn't "add" a class with that trade.

You want a game that had more money and time pumped into it. That's fine. But trying to offer your idea as 'they could've done that' when they couldn't even complete the NPCs? Delusional.

Black Knight is not just a villain. He was a playable character. And unlike the Robin clone trio, he is a popular character. The Dark Mages were intentionally chosen to be the unpopular guys so that the fanbase wouldn't want them in like they did with Hyrule Warriors, allowing them to focus on other people.

I said nothing about excluding laguz for fates. Fates doesn't compete for uniqueness with Laguz. I said that Fates's unique characters trump people from the same classes, and that holds true just for the ones that got in, aside from clones.

Again, it's not little difference. You cut clones and added 100% original characters. You cut alt.costumes and added 100% original characters or clones. That's not how it works. It's easier to make a "better" game if you give yourself more resources, any monkey can pull that off.

 

I never once said dlc would add new games. The dlc would cover focus games in my variant as well.

Again you are ok giving a character like celica or alm barebones representation or missing eachother as counterpart.

Characters can share certain moves or some attacks without being outright clones but having similar areas of effect in there attacks reducing work.

Ok Troubadour lose Valkyrie get or sword valkyrie get magic valkyrie lose.

It's delusional for me to think they could put more effort in one part of the game. Like i said and you didn't read or ignored again one could make the compromise by removing one character.

Black Knight for the most part is a villain. He's predestined for something like being a lu bu(dynasty warriors) of this game. You could add him later down the line, but him as enemy in his first appearence would make much more sence considering he wasn't playable ( in story mode ) untel the second game.

The laguz argument is another instance of compromise you want me to cut down work but you deny me to cut down work at places you care for.

Changing 8 characters giving the overall size of the game, the fact that half can be straight up clones and the other half can have shared moves, hitboxes thereof and such and the fact im willing to remove one character if it isn't possible in the time given makes it possible.

And before you again only read half my post and use what you need to make your argument work yes i now have less (24) but i have some more uniqueness that you need to add later, because at some point you have to cover the games, characters, classes i covered likewise do i.

That said im not gonna comment anymore, because it isn't fun discussing things with someone unwilling take other opinions into consideration and maybe help thinking of something better together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is not much more i can say besides, again, that you simply don't understand game design and game development at all. I'll stop here with you, not only your posts are a pain to read because of weird wording and punctuation your lack of logic makes discussion pointless.

Thanks for helping me procrastinate, tho.

Edited by guedesbrawl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps they'll have a go at Fire Emblem Warriors 2; preferably after making a proper sequel for Hyrule Warriors first (Linebeck and Groose are a necessity). And who knows; maybe they'll embrace the whole clone-set system and pump in loads and loads of characters from different games so that we'd have more to complain about...that should be fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, DIO said:

Perhaps they'll have a go at Fire Emblem Warriors 2; preferably after making a proper sequel for Hyrule Warriors first (Linebeck and Groose are a necessity). And who knows; maybe they'll embrace the whole clone-set system and pump in loads and loads of characters from different games so that we'd have more to complain about...that should be fun.

Kinda doubt we'll get a full out sequel for FE:W at first. it'll likely be an updated version at full price. See any Warriors games and their Xtreme Legends and Empires sub games.

HW2 does have a chance of happening potentially. Although if it does I'd imagine BoTW would get the majority of the focus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3.11.2017 at 12:05 AM, YotsuMaboroshi said:

While generally speaking I agree with you that the restriction to 3 games was beneficial, we are missing more than just Knight/General.  At the very least, we're missing Mercenaries, Clerics, and Fighters as well.  I'd also argue we're missing Cavaliers, despite having both of their promotions.  You can make the argument that these classes have representation, but I think that argument is a bit sketchy. 

While strictly speaking Lissa is a combination Cleric/Fighter, her moveset doesn't really work for any other character in the series except maybe Libra, and it severely downplays the standard Cleric parts, limiting that to her specials and one charge.  This leaves us with a moveset that's more Fighter than Cleric, but can't actually be used for any other Fighters in the series, and we don't have a standard magic wielding Cleric/Sage/Bishop (at least until Linde, since presumably her promotion will be Sage, but her moveset will likely be more Mage based than Cleric based, given her original class).

The closest thing we have to a Mercenary is Chrom/Lucina, who are Lords.  Neither of these characters are particularly associated with the Mercenary class line, with the best connection being that their fighting style and Aether are similar like Ike's, who was the original Lord Mercenary.  Neither of them uses axes in any capacity either (Chrom gets a Lance, Lucina gets Bow), which is the traditional Hero addition Mercs gain on promotion.  So we don't actually have a proper Mercenary rep (largely because too many swords, but still).

Cavaliers are one of the standard early game Lance users (I think they're generally the first lance user you tend to get actually, thanks to the Christmas Knights being a recurring archetype), while our Paladin and Great Knight use a Sword and an Axe, respectively.  Xander's Paladin set is the closest to a standard Cavalier, but still, Sword user instead of Lance user.

Overall, I don't think the game suffers by not including them (except maybe a standard Cavalier lance set, but that's more due to the Pegasus Knights being the only current lance users), but I don't think you can say that the game properly represents all of the standard FE classes except Knight.

Chrom and Lucina's moveset is very standard mercenary fare (with the exception of the lightning), especially as Mercenaries are one of our primary infantry swords. (We're also getting Navarre eventually who's class is Mercenary for this game.)

Clerics (and healers in general) have their movesets based upon promotions (because Staves are mostly used as items in the Fire Emblem games). Thus, Lissa is already doing the Cleric part as expected, in particular because she's one of the few characters who does have access to staves before promotion (the rest are our other healers + who the game counts as it's actual Lords AKA the twins). As a result of course, the moveset that the healers get are based upon the part they get when they promote and are able to do stuff other than healing (in Lissa's case, it's the axe infantry user which means she's our axe infantry rep).

Cavaliers tend to be either sword or lance reps: they generally don't have either weapon as a particular focus (to the point that the Paladin is one of the few Fates units who get a maximum of two A ranks in usable weapons, and is the only unit to be able claim that they have no main weapon in particular). Now here's where it gets interesting. Frederick and the Great Knights would probably have been the lance equivalent to the sword-wielding Cavaliers, but as that would have left the number of axes really low on the playable side (and on the enemy side, you would have had Lance-wielding Soldiers, Knights, Great Knights, and Peg. Knights, compared to just Axe-wielding Fighters and Wyvern Knights), so Great Knights were reworked into being axe wielders instead for variety's sake. The Cavalier and the Great Knight also mirrors the Christmas Cavalier archetype in terms of gameplay (whether you're using them or oppose them) by one being fast but not-so-strong and one being strong but not-so-fast).

Thus, you can say that the Cavaliers kept the sword part of their style, but had the lance part reworked into using an axe instead (and most importantly, had the Cavalier class split into two types, one that wielded the sword as one half, and one that wielded the lance, later changed into an axe, as the other half).

On 3.11.2017 at 3:11 AM, Motendra said:

I don't want to get back into this, but while this point is technically true with them being costumes, the official site treats them as such with their own [numbered] character page. Matter fact, when you count them, the actual playable character count becomes 25, which would have made for a nice number to stop at, instead of the odd 23

They're glorified costumes, but still just a costume in the end; they count as their own character in some cases in the game itself, but in other cases, they're treated very much like the costume they are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Jedi said:

Kinda doubt we'll get a full out sequel for FE:W at first. it'll likely be an updated version at full price. See any Warriors games and their Xtreme Legends and Empires sub games.

HW2 does have a chance of happening potentially. Although if it does I'd imagine BoTW would get the majority of the focus.

No Warriors crossover has followed that trend, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Jedi said:

Kinda doubt we'll get a full out sequel for FE:W at first. it'll likely be an updated version at full price. See any Warriors games and their Xtreme Legends and Empires sub games.

HW2 does have a chance of happening potentially. Although if it does I'd imagine BoTW would get the majority of the focus.

They've already talked about the possibility of a sequel though. The licensed games generally go straight for a sequel, with HW Legends being a big exception.

 

3 hours ago, Folt said:

Chrom and Lucina's moveset is very standard mercenary fare (with the exception of the lightning), especially as Mercenaries are one of our primary infantry swords. (We're also getting Navarre eventually who's class is Mercenary for this game.)

Huh? Is that something from the asset rips? The characters  here are specifically from Shadow Dragon, not FE1, so he should be a Myrmidon/Swordmaster.

Edited by NeonZ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, NeonZ said:

Huh? Is that something from the assets rips? The characters  here are specifically from Shadow Dragon, not FE1, so he should be a Myrmidon/Swordmaster.

I think he used 2 swords when you fight him, so hes defedently Lyns playstyle, and not chroms or lucinas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, NeonZ said:

Huh? Is that something from the asset rips? The characters  here are specifically from Shadow Dragon, not FE1, so he should be a Myrmidon/Swordmaster.

Whenever he appears if you check him in the map it says his class is Mercenary. That was his class before the DS remake, wasn't it? So they're probably just making a reference to that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, NeonZ said:

They've already talked about the possibility of a sequel though. The licensed games generally go straight for a sequel, with HW Legends being a big exception.

 

Huh? Is that something from the asset rips? The characters  here are specifically from Shadow Dragon, not FE1, so he should be a Myrmidon/Swordmaster.

Navarre's class in this game is Mercenary, specifically to reference to Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light, not the remake. It's easy to see if you look at his combat intro because his class title that comes with his name is Mercenary instead of Myrmidon. In terms of fighting style, Chrom and Lucina's regular moveset moreso fits the bill (and indeed, the intro lists it as a true veteran's sword style, and Mercenaries tend to be described as battle-hardened veterans).

So no, it's not something from the asset rips since it's easy to see when Navarre appears as an enemy commander.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, The DanMan said:

No Warriors crossover has followed that trend, though.

Hyrule Warriors did with Legends. But I am not too sure they will do that. They might, but I think they will be more inclined to do a full sequel as opposed to an updated version of the original.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

Hyrule Warriors did with Legends. But I am not too sure they will do that. They might, but I think they will be more inclined to do a full sequel as opposed to an updated version of the original.

HW was a delicate case where it launched on the Wii U and the 3DS could've given them way, way more profit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, KaSlider said:

Whenever he appears if you check him in the map it says his class is Mercenary. That was his class before the DS remake, wasn't it? So they're probably just making a reference to that.

Yeah, it was. I had never noticed it here in Warriors though. It's even odder because he shares Lyn's two sword-style gameplay-wise that's clearly not mercenary-like at all. And he uses two swords in his cutscenes, so they aren't going to remove that even if the DLC characters get updated movesets when they become playable.

Edited by NeonZ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...