Radiant Dawn Supports?

[Icelerate]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Not in Radiant Dawn, but in Path of Radiance, Ike was present when Jill talked to a Daein civilian, who blamed the flooding on Crimea, and vowed revenge. This is already telling to Ike that his actions will result in people of Daein blaming Crimea for the actions, whether they were in the right or wrong.

Furthermore, you're again forgetting that Ashnard was the Mad King that ruled Daein. He had to be stopped no matter what, and Ashnard controlling Daein meant that Daein was their enemy nonetheless and thus Ike had to oppose them, moreso when the Black Knight is there. And again, exactly what could Ike do regarding Daein after the war? The problem is that Crimea had no power whatsoever because it was in a ruined state. The only nation with the power and resources was Begnion, and Begnion was the nation that played the large part in defeating Daein. There was no one BUT Begnion to occupy Daein. 

Showing awareness is not the same as apologizing but I was addressing RD because the flooding was not Ike's fault since he didn't do it. 

I already demonstrated why invading Daein was pointless in defeating Ashnard. Not to mention replacing a lesser evil with a greater evil is a big no. An apology is the least Ike can do if he isn't capable or willing to do anything greater than that. Who says Crimea has to rule Daein? Wouldn't allowing Daein to rule itself with Tauroneo at the helm much like how Duessel did in Grado at the end of Sacred Stones be a better option?  

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

I hate Ike's ending too, it feels forced and out of character just to follow a common hero trope (leaving forever). Ike was all about his family and those he considered family. He wouldn't ever just abandon them. Plus, there was no explanation for why he left. It's just oh, bam, he's gone.

Didn't Ike tell Micaiah you shouldn't leave Daein due to being the hero of Daein? Then he ends up leaving Tellius despite being the hero of Tellius. It's pretty hypocritical especially when he's always talking about family bonds in PoR. 

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

Didn't Ike tell Micaiah you shouldn't leave Daein due to being the hero of Daein? Then he ends up leaving Tellius despite being the hero of Tellius. It's pretty hypocritical especially when he's always talking about family bonds in PoR. 

I'm not sure, but if Ike did say that to her, then yeah, he is a hypocrite to leave. :/ And exactly, he was always talking about his family bonds too.

[omegaxis1]

23 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Showing awareness is not the same as apologizing but I was addressing RD because the flooding was not Ike's fault since he didn't do it. 

I already demonstrated why invading Daein was pointless in defeating Ashnard. Not to mention replacing a lesser evil with a greater evil is a big no. An apology is the least Ike can do if he isn't capable or willing to do anything greater than that. Who says Crimea has to rule Daein? Wouldn't allowing Daein to rule itself with Tauroneo at the helm much like how Duessel did in Grado at the end of Sacred Stones be a better option?  

Actually, showing awareness of the consequences of actions is something that's made painfully clear by this conversation. Even if he didn't do it, he understands painfully that the people of Daein will have people suffering, and they will be blamed. This one wasn't the fault, but Ike isn't stupid and knows that he wouldn't be aware that some of the actions they were doing weren't causing Daein to suffer.

There was no greater evil. Ashnard was doing precisely what he wanted to do, and his goals were actually met by the time of Radiant Dawn. Furthermore, you are actually very wrong. Allow me to explain. Even if they liberated Crimea, Ashnard would just work to invade it again. Marching into Daein to stop Ashnard only to find he wasn't there didn't matter. Even if they went directly to Crimea, by defeat Ashnard and would be forced to defeat his forces, Daein would have been crippled no matter what. That was inevitable. Furthermore, look at the map. They were marching directly from Begnion, weren't they. By the time they got to Daein, they had zero options by to march through it, and they met Daein forces along the way. Ike is in no way in the fault there. If Ike did something like order civilians to be killed, then that'd be something, but he never did that. In fact, him trying to stop the flood actually proves that Ike didn't want innocents to get hurt. 

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

12 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Didn't Ike tell Micaiah you shouldn't leave Daein due to being the hero of Daein? Then he ends up leaving Tellius despite being the hero of Tellius. It's pretty hypocritical especially when he's always talking about family bonds in PoR. 

 

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I'm not sure, but if Ike did say that to her, then yeah, he is a hypocrite to leave. :/ And exactly, he was always talking about his family bonds too.

I actually don't remember him saying that to her but I could have missed it? If he did then that just makes me dislike that ending even more, it simply doesn't make sense with how he's characterized.

On that note, if you could change Ike's ending how would you change it? Taking supports into account and otherwise?

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

Are you forgetting that Ike handed the country over to Begnion? Not to mention invading Daein was completely pointless when liberating Crimea was the goal. Begnion has a border with Crimea so you don't need to invade Daein to get to Crimea. 

Well, the general thought seemed to be that Daien would surrender when their country was conquered. Ena and that general she talks with even note how weird it is that Ashnard doesn't rush back to defend his kingdom or how he's willing to abandon it to retain Crimea. 

 

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

I actually don't remember him saying that to her but I could have missed it? If he did then that just makes me dislike that ending even more, it simply doesn't make sense with how he's characterized.

On that note, if you could change Ike's ending how would you change it? Taking supports into account and otherwise?

If Ike had to leave to explore other lands, he should take the Greil Mercenaries with him. Or if he stayed behind, he could continue to work as a mercenary as well. And if he marries Elincia, then he could be one of the consorts that continue to roam the country to help the people personally, since even if he is royalty by then, he's not one to enjoy staying in a castle.

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

I actually don't remember him saying that to her but I could have missed it? If he did then that just makes me dislike that ending even more, it simply doesn't make sense with how he's characterized.

On that note, if you could change Ike's ending how would you change it? Taking supports into account and otherwise?

I'm not sure exactly. I know for an ending with Elincia, I'd have her hand her throne to Renning and then go to marry Ike and support Crimea by fighting alongside his mercenaries. But for a solo ending, I guess I'd just emphasize him commanding the mercenaries until the end of his days, and him leaving behind an unsurpassed legacy. And if he has kids, say that he does his best to be a better father than Greil was. Greil wasn't really the best dad. He had respectable morals and all, but as a dad, eh...

Edited November 1, 2017 by Anacybele

[Etrurian emperor]

Edward and Boyd kinda serve the same role in their respective factions so I could see those two having a support. Alternatively Edward may have one with Rolf since they are the youngest members of the group. 

Tormod is implied to be working for Sanaki and their personalities have potential to get some interesting chemistry so I'd certainly give those two a support. 

Calil and Tauroneo speak on familiar terms with each other during their fight and he had a support with her husband in the last game. 

Raphiel and Muarim are both former slaves. 

Nealuchi is fond of the herons so I'd give him a support with Reyson. It would be interesting to see them talk about Nealuchi's role in the whole Oliver incident. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

If Ike had to leave to explore other lands, he should take the Greil Mercenaries with him. Or if he stayed behind, he could continue to work as a mercenary as well. And if he marries Elincia, then he could be one of the consorts that continue to roam the country to help the people personally, since even if he is royalty by then, he's not one to enjoy staying in a castle.

That makes sense. Ike isn't the kind to play politics and I think it would be hilarious for people to come to him for advice, just to see what he says to them.

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I'm not sure exactly. I know for an ending with Elincia, I'd have her hand her throne to Renning and then go to marry Ike and support Crimea by fighting alongside his mercenaries. But for a solo ending, I guess I'd just emphasize him commanding the mercenaries until the end of his days, and him leaving behind an unsurpassed legacy. And if he has kids, say that he does his best to be a better father than Greil was. Greil wasn't really the best dad. He had respectable morals and all, but as a dad, eh...

I feel like this would be the far more likely ending. I really don't see Ike being a bad dad if he ever does become a father and I heard that Greil literally knocked Ike out at one point so... not father of the year I guess lol.

Am I the only one that thinks it would be cute to see Ike with a daughter?

 

On another note it seems like everyone forgets Mist and Nailah and they're two of my favorites. Especially Nailah, she's awesome. I'd really like to see Nailah get some supports. Preferably with the other laguz royals and Rafiel. Also Micaiah would be a good option to support with her, I feel like Nailah would be a good mentor and possibly mother figure for her.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

I feel like this would be the far more likely ending. I really don't see Ike being a bad dad if he ever does become a father and I heard that Greil literally knocked Ike out at one point so... not father of the year I guess lol.

Am I the only one that thinks it would be cute to see Ike with a daughter?

Greil knocked Ike out in training. lol Not the same thing as abuse at all. But he was distant and not really close to either of his kids. He kept a lot from them, and Ike seems to feel like he doesn't know him well. I think after that, Ike would make a note to be close to his kids so they don't feel the way he did.

Yeah, I gave Ike both a son and a daughter with Elincia, as you can see in my sig. :P He and their daughter have the amusing daddy-daughter issues too. Haha. Basically a lot of "Father, you're embarrassing me!" moments. Ike isn't real doting or anything, he just gets the wrong ideas sometimes. lol

Edited November 1, 2017 by Anacybele

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Greil knocked Ike out in training. lol Not the same thing as abuse at all. But he was distant and not really close to either of his kids. He kept a lot from them, and Ike seems to feel like he doesn't know him well. I think after that, Ike would make a note to be close to his kids so they don't feel the way he did.

Yeah, I gave Ike both a son and a daughter with Elincia, as you can see in my sig. :P He and their daughter have the amusing daddy-daughter issues too. Haha. Basically a lot of "Father, you're embarrassing me!" moments.

I haven't really heard much about Greil so that's interesting to know. I wonder how that really did end up affecting Ike and Mist in terms of their relationships later on... but I agree with you.

Ohhhh I realize now that's what that is. They're cute! I can totally see Ike being an embarrassing dad that all her friends love with Mist being the "cool aunt" or at least the doting one. Considering he wasn't that close with his own dad I feel like Ike would either be just like him or the exact opposite in terms of his relationships, that's usually how these things go. I'd like to think he'd be the exact opposite and be a really loving father and partner but that's all speculation at this point.

[SavageVolug]

Supports I would love to see IF some thought and effort was put into them are:

Ike and Skrimir (this would be AWESOME)

Ike and Boyd 

Mia and Edward ( I can easily see them having a support with each other)

Volug and Naihalah

Volug and Mordecai

Volug and Muraim

[Anacybele]

19 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

I haven't really heard much about Greil so that's interesting to know. I wonder how that really did end up affecting Ike and Mist in terms of their relationships later on... but I agree with you.

Ohhhh I realize now that's what that is. They're cute! I can totally see Ike being an embarrassing dad that all her friends love with Mist being the "cool aunt" or at least the doting one. Considering he wasn't that close with his own dad I feel like Ike would either be just like him or the exact opposite in terms of his relationships, that's usually how these things go. I'd like to think he'd be the exact opposite and be a really loving father and partner but that's all speculation at this point.

Yeah. :P

Yup! I see Elincia being kinda doting and very loving as a mother too. Mist would probably be the "cool aunt" yeah. XD

 

[Ace Pelleas]

Well, Tellius has a astonishingly big potential for support conversations. I'll clarify a few of my thoughts on which interactions I think it would be cool

Oliver X Reyson: There's the whole PoR thing, so....

Tibarn X Nailah: Both are Laguz royalty and I think it could work

Shinon X Lyre: As the racist Shinon is,it could be one of the best conversations ever

Fiona X Tauroneo: Both are Daein's commanders and Fiona has a lot of potential  

[Etrurian emperor]

10 hours ago, Ace Pelleas said:

Tibarn X Nailah: Both are Laguz royalty and I think it could work

The two are also clearly getting off on the idea of fighting each other if they end up clashing the finale of part 3. I ship them.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The two are also clearly getting off on the idea of fighting each other if they end up clashing the finale of part 3. I ship them.

The innuendo can only be so strong IS! I ship them too and Nailah is one of the only ones capable of handling Tibarn.

12 hours ago, Ace Pelleas said:

Well, Tellius has a astonishingly big potential for support conversations. I'll clarify a few of my thoughts on which interactions I think it would be cool

Oliver X Reyson: There's the whole PoR thing, so....

Tibarn X Nailah: Both are Laguz royalty and I think it could work

Shinon X Lyre: As the racist Shinon is,it could be one of the best conversations ever

Fiona X Tauroneo: Both are Daein's commanders and Fiona has a lot of potential  

Oliver x Mirror is the best ship in the game lol. Honestly I find Oliver hilarious but I'd like him far away from the herons. Unless that support involves Reyson kicking him in the shins. All for that lol

Tibarn x Nailah is a great ship. Nailah needs more love and she's just as hot headed as Tibarn it seems. They could work.

You know I actually have very few issues with Shinon. As for him and Lyre that could be hilarious, especially after his whole thing with Lyre and Gatrie.

[Ace Pelleas]

3 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

You know I actually have very few issues with Shinon. As for him and Lyre that could be hilarious, especially after his whole thing with Lyre and Gatrie.

I don't have any problem with Shinon, in fact, it's the exact opposite.He is my second fvourite Tellius character, only because, he is the exact opposite of the whole FE cast. You got a ton of similar characters, with the same ideals and whatnow, with a few quirikness to be different from each other. Instead of applying the same rule to another character, you get an arrogant member that you've to slay him in order to recruit him again, if his disciple talked to him before, his relationship with Rolf is actually pretty interesting, because he doesn't want it to be known.

[Interdimensional Observer]

31 minutes ago, Ace Pelleas said:

I don't have any problem with Shinon, in fact, it's the exact opposite.He is my second fvourite Tellius character, only because, he is the exact opposite of the whole FE cast. You got a ton of similar characters, with the same ideals and whatnow, with a few quirikness to be different from each other. Instead of applying the same rule to another character, you get an arrogant member that you've to slay him in order to recruit him again, if his disciple talked to him before, his relationship with Rolf is actually pretty interesting, because he doesn't want it to be known.

Shinon is a bigot and provocateur (hence Provoke), but once you read his great supports and other dialogue, he emerges an Ike-hater with nuance and a soft spot in his heart, though not a heart of gold. He is different and complex and I like that.

Plus I've heard some criticism thrown at Panne in Awakening for being all aggressive towards humans, despite there not being a single PC or NPC who is a Taguel bigot. Why then is she aggressive if the world seems perfectly tolerant? Shinon (and the wonderful people of Port Toha in PoR) offer Lethe (to call her Panne's equal) a reason to be aggressive.

 

4 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Tibarn x Nailah is a great ship. Nailah needs more love and she's just as hot headed as Tibarn it seems. They could work.

Hate to say this, but I think Nailah and Rafiel are married.

 

RD has a wonderful cast, but outside of intra-DB and intra GM supports, there just isn't enough time for them to happen in RD.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[omegaxis1]

25 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Shinon is a bigot and provocateur (hence Provoke), but once you read his great supports and other dialogue, he emerges an Ike-hater with nuance and a soft spot in his heart, though not a heart of gold. He is different and complex and I like that.

I think the only person he ever truly respected, or would never show distaste towards, was Greil. That drunken conversation that Shinon had with Ike that one time clearly indicates that he hates Ike because he felt that Ike was trying to replace Greil, and no one can replace him.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Shinon is a bigot and provocateur (hence Provoke), but once you read his great supports and other dialogue, he emerges an Ike-hater with nuance and a soft spot in his heart, though not a heart of gold. He is different and complex and I like that.

Plus I've heard some criticism thrown at Panne in Awakening for being all aggressive towards humans, despite there not being a single PC or NPC who is a Taguel bigot. Why then is she aggressive if the world seems perfectly tolerant? Shinon (and the wonderful people of Port Toha in PoR) offer Lethe (to call her Panne's equal) a reason to be aggressive.

 

Hate to say this, but I think Nailah and Rafiel are married.

 

RD has a wonderful cast, but outside of intra-DB and intra GM supports, there just isn't enough time for them to happen in RD.

I never really used Panne, didn't feel the need. But I really like Shinon, I find him hilarious (which is probably odd since I can't stand Soren) and his conversation with Gatrie about Lyre is one of the best imo.

As for Nailah and Rafiel I am perfectly okay with this. In fact this makes me quite happy. Go Rafiel!

[Icelerate]

On 11/1/2017 at 7:42 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Well, the general thought seemed to be that Daien would surrender when their country was conquered. Ena and that general she talks with even note how weird it is that Ashnard doesn't rush back to defend his kingdom or how he's willing to abandon it to retain Crimea. 

 

The logic behind invading Daein still doesn't make any sense and is completely irrational. They went with the assumption that Ashnard will be in Nevessa which would mean everyone thought that the bulk of Daein's army would be in the homeland. First of all, if Crimea fell so quickly, it logically stands to reason that Daein had sent most of its troops to Crimea unless a fraction of Daein's army is so much stronger than the entire Crimean army that Crimea collapses nigh instantly. Now even if their assumption was true, Daein would be much harder to take down compared to liberating Crimea if Ashnard's in Nevessa and it's been stated by both Ike and Elincia that they don't want to occupy Daein, just pass through to liberate Crimea. They end up taking the harder route to accomplish something that would have been more easily accomplished by taking Crimea first where people were actually suffering, supposedly. This is as dumb as Ephraim attacking Grado instead of liberating Renais first but at least he admitted that he was wrong in doing so and that he failed his duties to his own people. I would have accepted an explanation that the Senate fooled Sanaki, Ike and Elincia into occupying Daein and the explanation would make sense since none of the three knows much about politics and war, at this point in time. 

So yes, these guys do owe Daein a big apology much like Ephraim apologized to his people even though Orson was at fault for his misrule.

 

[Icelerate]

14 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Actually, showing awareness of the consequences of actions is something that's made painfully clear by this conversation. Even if he didn't do it, he understands painfully that the people of Daein will have people suffering, and they will be blamed. This one wasn't the fault, but Ike isn't stupid and knows that he wouldn't be aware that some of the actions they were doing weren't causing Daein to suffer.

There was no greater evil. Ashnard was doing precisely what he wanted to do, and his goals were actually met by the time of Radiant Dawn. Furthermore, you are actually very wrong. Allow me to explain. Even if they liberated Crimea, Ashnard would just work to invade it again. Marching into Daein to stop Ashnard only to find he wasn't there didn't matter. Even if they went directly to Crimea, by defeat Ashnard and would be forced to defeat his forces, Daein would have been crippled no matter what. That was inevitable. Furthermore, look at the map. They were marching directly from Begnion, weren't they. By the time they got to Daein, they had zero options by to march through it, and they met Daein forces along the way. Ike is in no way in the fault there. If Ike did something like order civilians to be killed, then that'd be something, but he never did that. In fact, him trying to stop the flood actually proves that Ike didn't want innocents to get hurt. 

Once again showing awareness is not the same as apologizing. 

The Senate is the greater evil. This is a canon fact. Ashnard would be dead if they liberate Crimea and if he reinvaded, his army would be too weak to mount an effective invasion. Ike is very much at fault for handing over the country to Begnion. You can rationalize all you want but the fact remains. Anyway, Ike's army destroyed homes, so yes he should be held accountable for his actions much like any military commander. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Icelerate

[omegaxis1]

5 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Once again showing awareness is not the same as apologizing. 

The Senate is the greater evil. This is a canon fact. Ashnard would be dead if they liberate Crimea and if he reinvaded, his army would be too weak to mount an effective invasion. Ike is very much at fault for handing over the country to Begnion. You can rationalize all you want but the fact remains. Anyway, Ike's army destroyed homes, so yes he should be held accountable for his actions much like any military commander. 

Would Ashnard be dead? This guy is insane, sure, but he's also very cunning. Liberating Crimea would not have actually stopped Ashnard. He would just amount another invasion. His goal was to create a continent wide war. This guy has no fear of the possibility of unleashing a dark god that would result in everything being destroyed. Ashnard is still king, and Daein is said to be very powerful as a nation. 

Where does it say that Ike actually destroyed homes? And again, why should Ike be held accountable on handing the country to Begnion? He isn't a king or royalty in the slightest, so he has no control over Daein. Have you completely missed the point that no other nation could take over? Begnion was the only nation with the power ad resources, and had the biggest hand in defeating Daein. By what right did Ike have to stop Begnion in taking Daein? 

[Etrurian emperor]

Isn't Daein far more to blame for their loss and subjugation then Ike? Lets remember that Daein started an unjust war of aggression, oppressed Crimea for a year and actively gathered Laguz to torture to death. Its not hard to see why no nation on Tellius would mind them not having their own country anymore after what they did.