Jump to content

How Would You Rewrite the Story?


Recommended Posts

On 11/11/2017 at 5:35 PM, Shoblongoo said:

I woudn't change a thing about the story, tbh. I think its perfect as written.

What I would do is extend it. And by that I mean I'd make the next installment in the franchise a return to Tellius; doing to FE9-10 what Awakening did to FE 1-3.

Taking the setting far into the future. Looking at the world that has been built in the millennia since the hero of ancient legend; how the old tales have been revered and what has been made of their legacy.

And of course; storywise Kurthnaga=Tiki.

Its a bold new world. But Kurthnaga is still alive, all grown up, and ready to kick it with the new cast thousands of years after the events of Radiant Dawn.

...because dragons...

I would like a sequel hundreds of years later where Micaiah, Soren and Kurthnaga are still alive similar to Bramimond and Athos from FE7. Tellius is more popular than FE1 and FE3 so I could see your idea become a reality. This is especially true when the Switch is more of a console and the only console FE games are from Tellius. 

Edited by Icelerate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Icelerate said:

I would like a sequel hundreds of years later where Micaiah, Soren and Kurthnaga are still alive similar to Bramimond and Athos from FE7. 

If we're talking sequels, I would love to see a game where those three return.

But..... come on guys, a prequel would be the way to go. Altina, Dheginsea, and Lehran (plus the lion guy, who was that?) versus a goddess where the main lord would not only be female, but the one who established Begnion and who dual-wielded Ragnell and Alondite! Uhh, strongest lord in the series, thank you!

Plus that story would just be awesome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

If we're talking sequels, I would love to see a game where those three return.

But..... come on guys, a prequel would be the way to go. Altina, Dheginsea, and Lehran (plus the lion guy, who was that?) versus a goddess where the main lord would not only be female, but the one who established Begnion and who dual-wielded Ragnell and Alondite! Uhh, strongest lord in the series, thank you!

Plus that story would just be awesome.

Well, BlazingKnight suggested a Tellius prequel with that idea. Apparently, Ike is the strongest lord but Altina is much stronger so that would be an interesting twist.  I'm surprised you want Soren to return. 

Prequels can have awesome stories like Skyward Sword so I agree. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the suggestion that blood pacts should be removed, I disagree. Most alternatives to the blood pact are far worse. For example, the people of Daein are racist so Pelleas decides to go to war just because. Then Micaiah decides to fight to the death and use heinous tactics just because her country is racist. Seems like a weak character to me. 

Begnion threatens a military invasion so Pelleas becomes a coward. Yet everyone else is fighting bravely against the Senate and it wouldn't make sense for Daein to continue fighting alongside the Senate when their army is getting decimated in chapters 3-11-3E. The military threat of Begnion doesn't even make much sense when they were busy quelling the uprising in the capital.

Pelleas is being influenced by evil nobles? That's odd because Micaiah has far more political power than any noble in Daein so does she just sit there and let the evil nobles influence Pelleas? Seems like a weak character to me.  

Scrap the conflict between Daein and the Alliance and just have a coalition go up against Begnion? Lame as this is PoR 2.0 except replace Daein with Begnion. 

Begnion makes a deal where they reconstruct Daein if they go to war? Well, what's the point of reconstruction when Ike's forces can completely decimate Daein? It would be best to stay neutral and not get compensation from Begnion. 

Blood pacts may not be the best way of creating grey conflict and moral dilemma but they are certainly much better than most alternatives. Blood pact is essentially a way of blackmail which adds more dimension to the story. 

Edited by Icelerate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Icelerate said:

As for the suggestion that blood pacts should be removed, I disagree. Most alternatives to the blood pact are far worse. For example, the people of Daein are racist so Pelleas decides to go to war just because. Then Micaiah decides to fight to the death and use heinous tactics just because her country is racist. Seems like a weak character to me. 

Begnion threatens a military invasion so Pelleas becomes a coward. Yet everyone else is fighting bravely against the Senate and it wouldn't make sense for Daein to continue fighting alongside the Senate when their army is getting decimated in chapters 3-11-3E. The military threat of Begnion doesn't even make much sense when they were busy quelling the uprising in the capital.

Pelleas is being influenced by evil nobles? That's odd because Micaiah has far more political power than any noble in Daein so does she just sit there and let the evil nobles influence Pelleas? Seems like a weak character to me.  

Scrap the conflict between Daein and the Alliance and just have a coalition go up against Begnion? Lame as this is PoR 2.0 except replace Daein with Begnion. 

Begnion makes a deal where they reconstruct Daein if they go to war? Well, what's the point of reconstruction when Ike's forces can completely decimate Daein? It would be best to stay neutral and not get compensation from Begnion. 

Blood pacts may not be the best way of creating grey conflict and moral dilemma but they are certainly much better than most alternatives. Blood pact is essentially a way of blackmail which adds more dimension to the story. 

I would disagree. Any sense of blackmail falls flat because the writers also made the people of Daein so willing to fight, then ignore that anytime the pact was brought up as the only reason Daein can't withdraw. Remember, dialogue like in 3-11 shows it isn't just their racism, they buy the Senate's lies and zeal also drives their desire to keep fighting since they were in a "down with the false Apostle!" mindset as well (if I remember correctly, they were pretty much treating Micaiah as if she were the Apostle; delicious irony, if you ask me, considering things, yet it's never used by the game itself so it becomes wasted potential). So if anything, the writing needs to expand and explore more on the will of Daein to fight, and make it as an issue as big as the blood pact for the main characters. Blood Pact only really works if Daein itself also doesn't want to fight.

Same thing can be said of the ravens, as well. We never hear what they thought on the whole thing when Naesala told them to backstab the hawks. And yes, ravens aren't all saints, but they do have their fair share of hatred against Begnion, so to suddenly switch sides to help them would've been something the game shouldve shown. And yet, they just go MIA for the rest of the plot sans the PC ravens.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I would disagree. Any sense of blackmail falls flat because the writers also made the people of Daein so willing to fight, then ignore that anytime the pact was brought up as the only reason Daein can't withdraw. Remember, dialogue like in 3-11 shows it isn't just their racism, they buy the Senate's lies and zeal also drives their desire to keep fighting since they were in a "down with the false Apostle!" mindset as well (if I remember correctly, they were pretty much treating Micaiah as if she were the Apostle; delicious irony, if you ask me, considering things, yet it's never used by the game itself so it becomes wasted potential). So if anything, the writing needs to expand and explore more on the will of Daein to fight, and make it as an issue as big as the blood pact for the main characters. Blood Pact only really works if Daein itself also doesn't want to fight.

Same thing can be said of the ravens, as well. We never hear what they thought on the whole thing when Naesala told them to backstab the hawks. And yes, ravens aren't all saints, but they do have their fair share of hatred against Begnion, so to suddenly switch sides to help them would've been something the game shouldve shown. And yet, they just go MIA for the rest of the plot sans the PC ravens.

4

The blackmail is to encourage the leaders to get involved in the fight. That silly stuff about the false Apostle and subhumans isn't a good motivation for anyone who isn't an ignorant fool or evil. 

Yeah, the raven thing wasn't handled well at all. Why weren't the Ravens used to fight against the Laguz Alliance other than the Phoenicis genocide? Also, what you mention is correct as well. We don't really see much of how Kilvas thinks of Naesala other than Nealuchi. 

Edited by Icelerate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

The blackmail is to encourage the leaders to get involved in the fight. That silly stuff about the false Apostle and subhumans isn't a good motivation for anyone who isn't an ignorant fool or evil. 

Yeah, the raven thing wasn't handled well at all. Why weren't the Ravens used to fight against the Laguz Alliance other than the Phoenicis genocide? Also, what you mention is correct as well. We don't really see much of how Kilvas thinks of Naesala other than Nealuchi. 

Why wouldn't it be a good motivation? Also, 3-6 dialogue says the are bounties for each laguz kill. That's actually one of the reasons why the idea I gave earlier was that Begnion was paying reparations for the acts of the IOA. I'm not sure how likely the Daein government would be the one to issue the bounties, so I would think it's Begnion itself just enticing them further.

Yes, it's "motivation" for the rulers, but there's also the not-quite-insignificant matter that they are them, and the people are the people. What if the people of Daein had not wanted to fight? What if insisting had led to a civil war since they think Pelleas is insane trying to wage war while they're still rebuilding? The Senate would not get the help it wanted, since Daein would be so busy fighting itself, their threat of the Blood Pact is moot unless Pelleas spills the beans, and that just leads to further problems. But since the people do want to fight, the blood pact is moot. It's much more interesting to go "They're my people, and fight is what they want. Do I let them even though I know it's not right, or I deny their wishes and do what is right at the cost of their support?"

Good question about the ravens. You'd think that, if they're going that route, the story could've had Micaiah and Naesala talk on the matter (I don't think anyone of the PC's outside Naesala even knew Kilvas had a blood pact until 4-E-1), which could've be an interesting subject to explore. But no joy there either.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Why wouldn't it be a good motivation? Also, 3-6 dialogue says the are bounties for each laguz kill. That's actually one of the reasons why the idea I gave earlier was that Begnion was paying reparations for the acts of the IOA. I'm not sure how likely the Daein government would be the one to issue the bounties, so I would think it's Begnion itself just enticing them further.

Yes, it's "motivation" for the rulers, but there's also the not-quite-insignificant matter that they are them, and the people are the people. What if the people of Daein had not wanted to fight? What if insisting had led to a civil war since they think Pelleas is insane trying to wage war while they're still rebuilding? The Senate would not get the help it wanted, since Daein would be so busy fighting itself, their threat of the Blood Pact is moot unless Pelleas spills the beans, and that just leads to further problems. But since the people do want to fight, the blood pact is moot. It's much more interesting to go "They're my people, and fight is what they want. Do I let them even though I know it's not right, or I deny their wishes at the cost of their support?"

Good question about the ravens. You'd think that, if they're going that route, the story could've had Micaiah and Naesala talk on the matter (I don't think anyone of the PC's outside Naesala even knew Kilvas had a blood pact until 4-E-1), which could've be an interesting subject to explore. But no joy there either.

The reason why the people are willing to fight is that Micaiah is there to lead them. It was suggested that without Micaiah, the army would not function. 

Pelleas isn't insane. He was going to refuse Lekain's request to send help so why would he attack the Laguz alliance due to some suggestions from generic soldiers that wanted to. The generic soldiers only got excited because they'd be lead by their precious Maiden of Dawn. It's not like they were excited to go to war before Pelleas and Micaiah decided to go to war. Also, wars are started by leaders, not because of an angry mob of the citizenry that forces the rulers to wage war. 

Sanaki knew about the blood pact since prologue. Pretty sure Nealuchi and Leanne did as well.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

The reason why the people are willing to fight is that Micaiah is there to lead them. It was suggested that without Micaiah, the army would not function. 

Pelleas isn't insane. He was going to refuse Lekain's request to send help so why would he attack the Laguz alliance due to some suggestions from generic soldiers that wanted to. The generic soldiers only got excited because they'd be lead by their precious Maiden of Dawn. It's not like they were excited to go to war before Pelleas and Micaiah decided to go to war. Also, wars are started by leaders, not because of an angry mob of the citizenry that forces the rulers to wage war. 

Sanaki knew about the blood pact since prologue. Pretty sure Nealuchi and Leanne did as well.  

Keep in mind that at it was ultimately how the writers wanted it to go. Which is the whole point. If they choose to made Daein willing to fight, regardless of reason, then not incluiding that detail when Pelleas and Micaiah lament they can't drop out, and only mention the blood pact, is simply not good writing. Because, again, the fact the people are so into it should matter. And it's worse when you consider the game did gave reasons as to why the people of Daein would want to keep fighting, but the main characters are only "blood pact blood pact blood pact". It's annoying, to be honest.

I never said he was insane, only that potentially he could've been seen as insane for wanting to involve the country into a war they should have no business getting themselves involved with. Case in point, Daein should not really see Begnion with good eyes at the moment, so why would they be so willing to obey them? Funny, when actually under their rule, they refuse to obey. But when they're free... they're all for it. Well, actually, not funny at all.

Not sure on the latter two. It doesn't really get brought up, so it's hard to say if Leanne really found out, or only got to see what Naesala felt about what he did. For what it's worth, Naesala knows better than to let his guard down when it comes to being near a Heron. He only ever blunders with Micaiah, since he doesn't know she's Heron branded, but Micaiah doesn't really prod beyond what he feels for Leanne.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Parts 1 and 2 are totally fine by me.

I don't really like everyone getting petrified in Part 4, but I don't think it could be removed/replaced without altering the plot too much.

My main grip with the plot is the existence of the Blood Pact. I don't know exactly how I'd change it, but I'd certainly try to make the political justifications for Kilvas and Daein opposing the Laguz Alliance more believable. I'd go for something more realistic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/12/2017 at 8:01 PM, Icelerate said:

Well, BlazingKnight suggested a Tellius prequel with that idea. Apparently, Ike is the strongest lord but Altina is much stronger so that would be an interesting twist.  I'm surprised you want Soren to return. 

Prequels can have awesome stories like Skyward Sword so I agree. 

I mean, I hate him but he's a Branded so he'd still be around. The other laguz, ala the herons, should return too. It would be interesting to see them all have to join forces and Micaiah and Soren butting heads would be entertaining at least.

Anyway, Altina would be awesome to see and I'd love to see Dheginsea as a more headstrong youth. Lehran I feel would be the level headed one in that group xD

 

So the rest of this got really long, so I won't quote people lol.

The main issue with the blood pact is that it wasn't developed well enough. We don't know its limitations, how it came to be, nothing. We also don't see enough Begnion presence in Daein to warrant them not telling Sanaki's army about it. Those are the two biggest issues with it... which could easily be fixed by more elaboration but anyway.

The thing is, Daein had to enter the war for the medallion to break, and they had to enter it on Begnion's side because otherwise it would be a curb stomp that was over far too quickly for the medallion to garner enough chaos. Half of Begnion (because Sanaki's army plus like half the populace), plus the LA, plus the CRK, plus Daein, plus the GMs all against Begnion would just decimate them. So yeah, they needed something to even it out and Daein is the only real option they had.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

The thing is, Daein had to enter the war for the medallion to break, and they had to enter it on Begnion's side because otherwise it would be a curb stomp that was over far too quickly for the medallion to garner enough chaos. Half of Begnion (because Sanaki's army plus like half the populace), plus the LA, plus the CRK, plus Daein, plus the GMs all against Begnion would just decimate them. So yeah, they needed something to even it out and Daein is the only real option they had.

Not necessarily. Remember that it only took Kurth and Ena to count for the whole of Goldoa. There's also the matter the ravens had long dropped out as well (asuming they're not being forced to fight offscreen like Begnion's army when the alliance was fighting Daein) save for Naesala. And if they count as well, Hatari likewise only had Nailah and Volug involved. So no, Daein as a whole would not need to get involved.

Also, it's hard to say if such a statement is understimating Begnion's might. Keep in mind the writers could just have the Senate still be able to hold on despite having almost everybody against them, incluiding parts of Begnion themselves. We never really get to gauge the exact extent of Begnion's might. We only ever really see the Begnion Central Army. But, as its name could imply, there could be other divisions easily as large and powerful.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/14/2017 at 8:59 AM, Acacia Sgt said:

Not necessarily. Remember that it only took Kurth and Ena to count for the whole of Goldoa. There's also the matter the ravens had long dropped out as well (asuming they're not being forced to fight offscreen like Begnion's army when the alliance was fighting Daein) save for Naesala. And if they count as well, Hatari likewise only had Nailah and Volug involved. So no, Daein as a whole would not need to get involved.

Also, it's hard to say if such a statement is understimating Begnion's might. Keep in mind the writers could just have the Senate still be able to hold on despite having almost everybody against them, incluiding parts of Begnion themselves. We never really get to gauge the exact extent of Begnion's might. We only ever really see the Begnion Central Army. But, as its name could imply, there could be other divisions easily as large and powerful.

They didn't really count for the whole of Goldoa and I think it was pretty well established that the ravens were fighting too, just behind the scenes and doing more espionage-esque work. Besides, Ena and Kurth only fought once. That's really not enough and Nailah was the same, Volug was on Micaiah's side. As for Begnion's might that's true... but not exactly realistic. Against every other country (or reps from those countries) on Tellius they wouldn't stand long. It was said in Part 3, can't remember where exactly, that the Central Army is the strongest force in Begnion's military and that's why the LA fears meeting forces with them so badly without tactics like supply burning.

 

Anyway, after some farther thinking there are other ways to rewrite the story to get everyone what they want. One of those could be splitting it up into actual games instead of making one game with the potential of three in it. We could have one focused on Micaiah, one focused on Elincia, and one where all the heroes of Tellius (yes, plus Ike) come together. Of course that's not something IS would do but it would be fun nonetheless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yune would get the ghostly child body, that she has in the Cutscene at the end at the beginning af Part 4 and Micaiah would continue to have her own body.

Micaiah would show a Reaction to Zelgius Death. He seems to matter a lot to her and they had a lot in common as branded Generals of Daein. She would see the same Memories of Zelgius as Yune and how he always hid his Brand and lived in Fear of no longer being able to serve his country would convince her to reveal her brand and continue to serve Daein to not live the same Life as him and so other people like Zelgius and Micaiah, who had grown to love their county despite its racist attitude could do that in the Future without fear.

Zelgius wouldn't have a forced One-on-One with Ike. Maybe he would try it and it would backfire. Micaiah, Sothe, Pelleas, Sanaki and Tibarn deserve Boss Conversations with him too and it would be more satisfying to not give him the One-on-One-Death, that his twisted Honor demands but the combined Strength of our Army.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

They didn't really count for the whole of Goldoa and I think it was pretty well established that the ravens were fighting too, just behind the scenes and doing more espionage-esque work. Besides, Ena and Kurth only fought once. That's really not enough and Nailah was the same, Volug was on Micaiah's side. As for Begnion's might that's true... but not exactly realistic. Against every other country (or reps from those countries) on Tellius they wouldn't stand long. It was said in Part 3, can't remember where exactly, that the Central Army is the strongest force in Begnion's military and that's why the LA fears meeting forces with them so badly without tactics like supply burning.

 

Anyway, after some farther thinking there are other ways to rewrite the story to get everyone what they want. One of those could be splitting it up into actual games instead of making one game with the potential of three in it. We could have one focused on Micaiah, one focused on Elincia, and one where all the heroes of Tellius (yes, plus Ike) come together. Of course that's not something IS would do but it would be fun nonetheless.

That's the point. Despite the ~99% neutrality and uninvolvement of Goldoa and Hatari, the situation at 3-E was already at the verge of waking Ashera. So despite everything said about the conditions of the promise to her, the terms were much easier to break than expected. Actually, no, nothing is ever mentioned of the ravens. We see Naesala, yes, but that's just him. Nothing on the rest of Kilvas. And as for Begnion vs the rest of Tellius, it all laregely relies on the circumstances.

Splitting the game may sound fine on paper. Hahaha, heck, reminds me of SRW Compact 2. Specially with the set-up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I probably wouldn't rewrite the story necessarily, but add things. I would want more from the Dawn Brigade, especially before they fight the Laguz. It makes sense from fighting on Ike's side perspective, but it just makes things harder for the Dawn Brigade units to catch up with the others. It's easy to get at least one or two good solid units. Then I would want more for after the end of the game. Some bonus maps or something like Awakening and Sacred Stones did with the map so I could still access my old characters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...