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I hope this game is influenced a lot by FE Heroes


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24 minutes ago, Altrosa said:

 It's calculated on a curve now, and crits override and ignore hit rates.

Are you sure about this? I'm genuinely curious, as I always thought the game would check first to see whether an attack connects and then determine if it's a crit/skill activation on top of that.

Anyways, on topic: I generally like most of the series' RNG elements and think it wouldn't work out too well if we removed e.g. hit rates. Heroes kind of suffers from a lot of characters being really similar (even moreso with skill inheritance factored in) because entire stats and mechanics are missing, and I don't want this to happen to the main games as well. On top of that there's also the issue of several class niches potentially disappearing (mostly critical- or dodge-heavy classes).
For those of us who dislike random level-ups, there's always the possibility of Fixed Mode returning .

What I think could actually be interesting are countdown-based skills however, especially for procs with low activation chances, because unless your playing something like lategame Awakening, those are just very unreliable. The balancing requirred for this would be rather tricky though, as you'd probably still want a way for high Skl characters to charge their procs more quickly while you'd want to avoid situations like someone keeping a charged Lethality around for half a map and then trivializing the boss.

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The only thing from heroes I think should be in any mainline games would be skills having a cooldown/activation requirements because in mainline games skills like Luna and Sol feel useless to me because I can't rely on them to go off, thus I can't plan around them. Fates sort of had this in the form of the shield gauge for paired units but I would like %activation skills to be changed to this sort of system as well. 

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A really good explanation of the craziness of recent game's hit rates and the problems resulting. I rewatched it and I think I did mispeak. The issue is more that skill is a stat unrelated to hit and avoid, so you can have units that appear to ONLY land crits since the game uses a separate roll for each, and thus the crit rate can be sky high on any accuracy.

But, I'll Devil's Advocate a bit and give example on how RNG rolls get fanagly with the FE14 system in favor of players.

I made a Corrin that was skill+/mag- and married Saizo. This gave Asugi and Kanna overly high Skill growths and a slew of Skill stat reliant abilities and access to Hoshidan Ward (which boosts skill activation rates even further). So, the kids had Lethality and Dragonfang, coupled with Poison Strike, and easy to use self heals as their personals skills. Also, Dragon Ward, which buffs defense on allies. Saizo is a fast unit, and passed his nigh guaranteed doubling to his kids, increasing the chances of getting crits/skills in more. And Shurikenfaire happened.

I accidentally made 4 glass cannons that more or less trivialized the second half of the already pretty easy Birthright by inadvertently pushing the RNG grossly in my favor. This was my blind first run, too.

But, because of how hard everything leaned in my favor, at some point, the only RNG left was which skill would activate, not if one would, and if I was RNG screwed, I'd double, Poison Strike, or both. Strategy fell to the wayside to just making sure I was in heal range of Saizo. It got too easy.

Saying all that, if we remove the four RNG stats and go the Heroes route of skills being innate, based on map positions, or be on turn timers, it might be pertinent to also remove "classes" as we know them and make every unit unique... But that instead rolls right into the even worse issue of some units just objectionably being better in combat than others, especially without Heroes' skill inheritence system or some other method of boosting and customizing units.

It'd be like finding a spider in your kitchen and fixing that problem by burning the house down.

 

TLDR: I accidently built units that Fates' player friendly RNG buffed the shit out of and part of the reward was boredom, but I still don't see the Heroes alternative as better.

Edited by Altrosa
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I'm surprised Tag Teaming in Fates didn't have an Attack Gauge associated with it the way Pairing Up had a Shield Gauge; say once it hit 10, that unit would auto-hit (not sure if it would still be blockable with a full Shield Gauge) with an attack that has the Nihil property attached to it, preventing enemy skills from activating against it (such as Pavise or Miracle).  It would perhaps charge at only half the rate of a unit's Shield Gauge, however, as the charges awarded would need to already be split between the two participants (instead of the 'lead' unit getting 2 charges/action, both of them get 1 each/action).

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There would be far less unit variety if the ability to dodge attacks was taken out.

The Myrmidon class is pretty much dependent on its ability to dodge attacks and deliver criticals. Take those away, and it's basically just another Mercenary class.

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The only things I'd like to see from FEH to make it over into the Switch game are No Pair Up and all the characters, as Extra units not related to the game like in Awakening and Fates.

While Pair up is not a bad at all (Don't get me wrong, the way they improved it was great in fates, even if everything else about fates was bad lol), Its just pairing up takes a character out of the game because they are being a shield, I sort of want it to go back to one character fighting an enemy alone type again, and as for the entire FE Cast part, well, considering how MU's and Mii Castle, If they return, having a whole FE universe of characters to mess with would be fun. Though I would hope they'd revamp it a little bit, and by that I mean ALOT

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@MyBoyHectorHeroes couldn't work with pair up so that's not a good indicator since that'd be too complicated for that game especially design mostly around 4 characters on a small map. MUs and My Castle are definitely certain though, I hope for more improvement in the option department than just "we can change eye color now or more hair color/hairstyles" but My Castle I like the way it is so more unique buildings to do stuff in is fine with me.

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn
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10 hours ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

@MyBoyHectorHeroes couldn't work with pair up so that's not a good indicator since that'd be too complicated for that game especially design mostly around 4 characters on a small map. MUs and My Castle are definitely certain though, I hope for more improvement in the option department than just "we can change eye color now or more hair color/hairstyles" but My Castle I like the way it is so more unique buildings to do stuff in is fine with me.

My Castle flatout breaks the game. They can't leave it the way it is. Even if it is just online nerfs, it needs to be changed.

I also feels like there's a huge identity crisis with My Castle and the rest of Fates.

Things like splitting routes, kids, and restrictions on reclassing emphasizes replaying. My Castle, by far the biggest investment in the game, emphasizes you playing the same file and refining your castle forever.

Edited by Slumber
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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

My Castle flatout breaks the game. They can't leave it the way it is. Even if it is just online nerfs, it needs to be changed.

I also feels like there's a huge identity crisis with My Castle and the rest of Fates.

Things like splitting routes, kids, and restrictions on reclassing emphasizes replaying. My Castle, by far the biggest investment in the game, emphasizes you playing the same file and refining your castle forever.

I'm really curious if IS is going to try the My Castle thing again as it was for this reason and for the lack of Street Passes on the Switch. Another issue that arrose was the sheer quantity of hacked castles designed for material and ability farming. A customizable home base is a fun idea, but it still pigeonholed players into this secondary grindfest and was so exploitable. Plus, you'd want to visit castles as much as possible to gain more levels to add more to your own castle. 

Do people even want multiplayer in Fire Emblem? I don't mind the whole deal of putting up a pre-set, AI controlled army out in the world for a fun challenge to other players, but is it really all that rewarding?

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2 hours ago, Slumber said:

My Castle flatout breaks the game. They can't leave it the way it is. Even if it is just online nerfs, it needs to be changed.

I also feels like there's a huge identity crisis with My Castle and the rest of Fates.

Things like splitting routes, kids, and restrictions on reclassing emphasizes replaying. My Castle, by far the biggest investment in the game, emphasizes you playing the same file and refining your castle forever.

Outside certain hacks it does NOT break the game......and your more refering to unobtainable skill buying exploits which I didn't even mention as I already mention simple add-ons like more buildings and themed layouts. It can't be help if someone can hack multiple resources and unobtainable skills but the Switch isn't fully hackable yet.

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn
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2 hours ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

Outside certain hacks it does NOT break the game......and your more refering to unobtainable skill buying exploits which I didn't even mention as I already mention simple add-ons like more buildings and themed layouts. It can't be help if someone can hack multiple resources and unobtainable skills but the Switch isn't fully hackable yet.

I'm not even referring to that. Even without hacks, things like an army of broken Corrins is still possible. Getting items from a MyCastle that's much later in the game is still possible. You can still cheese for non-hacked skills.

Edited by Slumber
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7 hours ago, Slumber said:

I'm not even referring to that. Even without hacks, things like an army of broken Corrins is still possible. Getting items from a MyCastle that's much later in the game is still possible. You can still cheese for non-hacked skills.

At the end its the players decision to get what they need or not.

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2 minutes ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

At the end its the players decision to get what they need or not.

You sure do like to tell people who don't like controversial stuff in Fates to ignore all of it. 

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3 minutes ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

And what did I say was "controversial".....

So you're saying the very exploitable online My Castle features aren't "controversial"? 

Edited by Slumber
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3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

So you're saying the very exploitable online My Castle features aren't "controversial"? 

And how is it if the intent of it is to communicate with other players online and exchange skills and materials with each other its not a big deal as you clearly making it out to be.

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn
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34 minutes ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

And how is it if the intent of it is to communicate with other players online and exchange skills and materials with each other its not a big deal as you clearly making it out to be.

Because the intent clearly isn't for people to set up dummy battles so people can get free max leveled Corrins, late game items and weapons, and ideal skill setups for every single character in the game with 0 risk and no effort beyond time invested immediately after the feature is unlocked. The intent was to have players work towards this, but there were so many gameplay exploits(Like simply not giving your My Castle team proper equipment among many things) that just made what IS was trying easy to bypass. And that's not even going over how fundamentally at odds the online component/My Castle in general is with every single other part of the game. 

I strongly assume that if you were to ask most players that put much time into My Castle, most would say the online part of it is a broken mess, even without factoring the rampancy of hacking. 

The few good things I've seen about it were people simply saying that the feature was there and that IS was trying... which aren't the greatest endorsements of the feature. It's the equivalent of a participation trophy. Most of the time when I see the feature brought up, it's mostly complaints about it being a boring, broken timesink. 

Edited by Slumber
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The only influence I want from Heroes in this game is positional skills like reposition, draw back, etc.

If you don't want rng, play Advance Wars.

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37 minutes ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

The only influence I want from Heroes in this game is positional skills like reposition, draw back, etc.

If you don't want rng, play Advance Wars.

I love reposition so useful I hope there'll be a normal skill equivalent of it!

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Removing hit rates and the ability to miss attacks doesn't strike me as a very good idea. Yes its annoying when a unit fails to kill an enemy because he misses but playing heroes made me consider just how much this system is a boon for the player instead of the enemy.

Sometimes you will miss an attack but that's usually either a freak accident or bad use of weapon triangle or stats. Its not the player but the enemy who is going to miss frequently. If an enemy always hits then its going to be a lot harder to keep your units alive. It would also mess up several classes like Myrmidons or Mages that rely on dodging attacks.  

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I hope it isn't. I like having hit rates, crit rates, big maps with a lot of characters to choose from (which is why Grand Conquests is my favorite mode). I feel like not having those things in a mainline FE would detract from the experience. I love how you can't always rely on a plan to carry you through, and you may need to think fast to get out of a predicament. Heroes also doesn't really penalize you for losing Heroes, so I wouldn't like this for a main game either. I'm also not crazy about the broken armor portraits, mainly because they seems like ways to sexualize characters (females a lot more often). But since it's a gacha game, I let it slide. But I wouldn't want to see it in a mainline FE, since the context is different.

However, I would like if they cross over some of the skills and effects from Heroes though. I really like the skill system in Heroes, and I think skills such as Draw Back, Pivot, etc., can add a lot of strategic value to a mainline FE game. I also really enjoy the Grand Conquests base capture mode, and I think base capturing can be a fun map objective if the map's big. As for art, I can see a lot of artists working well with FE and wouldn't mind one of them working on the next FE, except for a few.

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While My Castle was designed as a way to boost your units underneath a vineer of a visually customizable homebase, it's way too powerful at said boosting and way too easy to utilize, yet, entirely unnecessary for any of it's uses. Even without using any online components, it has huge dividends, and as most humans choose the path of least resistance with things, the common exploitation of it isn't all that surprising.

On the other hand, My Castle's really not that nice aesthetically? Your building choices were limited, and only the layout, base environment, and music could be changed (and even that was limited by path choice and completion.) All those cute life sims I've played spoiled me to environmental customization, but having some more exterior options would be required for a future game if My Castle returns in some form. God, I really wanted to fix up Corrin's room so bad.

That said, I really don't think the general audience would miss My Castle if it were gone, which is very much unlike things like pair-up, class promotions, marriage, or, like, voice acting, at this point. 

Unless FE16's like a kingdom defense type of storyline where you would frequently return home or more Fates bubble dimension sillyness, I can't see HOW it could return as a system, either.

 

Anyway.

The only thing I like from Heroes is the simplified, nicely coordinated weapon triangle. Especially with mages, though I'm iffy on the addition of colored bows as having them be a neutral weapon could give bow units a good niche beyond the bonus to flyers.

Edited by Altrosa
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Things I'd want taken straight from Heroes:

- The ability to skills with built-up SP rather than earn them at arbitrary levels. Do you really want HP+5 and Gamble as your first skills? No? Fine, go ahead and buy Axefaire as a Lv. 10 Fighter instead. Lethality as a Lv. 2 Ninja? Not sure if that's a good idea when you need Locktouch the next chapter and I'm not even sure how you got the SP for Lethality at Lv. 2, but okay!
- Levels to skills. Seal Def's -6  was kinda extreme in Fates' early game. Being able to upgrade skills also gives a nice sense of progression.
- Skill list. I just like knowing what I can expect to get from a character without having to consult a guide. It's also kinda hard to get you to save SP (and promotions) if you can't see what you're saving for. :P

Edited by Technoweirdo
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