What Weapons Should Fliers Wield?

[Von Ithipathachai]

For the longest time, Pegasus Knights have been mostly wielding Lances (presumably because they have more reach), but we've still seen that they can still wield Swords without much issue.  Indeed, I feel like Swords would probably be better for them to wield than Lances because Swords are often lighter and thus incur lower Speed penalties.

That being said, what do you guys think they should use?

[Thinks Their Own Way]

I want Falcon Knights to wield swords along with lances again (flying paladins); a flying healer is cool but they never have enough magic to make a dent. Turn the Valkyrie class into a flying class. That's pretty much it.

[Slumber]

Lances for Peggies.

Peggies aren't strong enough to thrive off of swords. Their(Usually) very high speed offsets the AS loss from lances, though, while getting more of a kick out of their weapons.

I like Axes for Wyverns.

[Captain Vulgar]

Knives

I think lances are just fine for them. Tomes and swords word make for lovely additions though. Wyvern riders should always have axes. Odds are we get a new original addition the flier pile of classes that haven't returned. Maybe they'll have swords or bows or something.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Captain Vulgar

[Shadow Mir]

Lances for Pegasi (I don't really see swords as that beneficial for them; I also don't understand why we're talking about speed loss when speed loss from weapons has been gone since New Mystery (I'm not counting SoV on the grounds of being a remake).

15 minutes ago, I'm a Spheal said:

I want Falcon Knights to wield swords along with lances again (flying paladins); a flying healer is cool but they never have enough magic to make a dent. Turn the Valkyrie class into a flying class. That's pretty much it.

Personally, I disagree with wanting swords and lances on Falcoknights again, especially after Sacred Stones had THREE classes with lances and swords (Falcoknight, Wyvern Lord, Paladin). I see nothing to gain from giving them a cookie-cutter weapon combo... And I really don't get what you mean by that comment about them never having enough magic to make a dent.

[Von Ithipathachai]

11 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Lances for Pegasi (I don't really see swords as that beneficial for them; I also don't understand why we're talking about speed loss when speed loss from weapons has been gone since New Mystery (I'm not counting SoV on the grounds of being a remake).

Personally, I disagree with wanting swords and lances on Falcoknights again, especially after Sacred Stones had THREE classes with lances and swords (Falcoknight, Wyvern Lord, Paladin). I see nothing to gain from giving them a cookie-cutter weapon combo... And I really don't get what you mean by that comment about them never having enough magic to make a dent.

Hey, you never know if they might bring Constitution back.  It may not be likely but it's still possible, so I figured I needed to account for it.

As for Falcon Knights not being able to make a dent, I'm pretty sure he means that Falcon Knights are often inferior to primarily magical classes like Bishops/Sages as healers.

[Jotari]

I've always been partial for Pegasus to use Swords. Give Draco Knights Lances back and make Griffons and Kinshi first tier units (useing axes and bows respectively) and you have a nice dichotomy of each of the primary physical weapons being used by a flier.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Jotari

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Pegs should wield Lances. It's more fitting for that type of fighter to wield the long reach lance so that they may stay at a safe distance above or just outside their opponent's reach. It also makes sense if you consider Pegasus knights as a representation of the mythic Valkyrie, that are often depicted favoring the lance more than the sword. As for Wyverns, the axe suits them as well. Especially since I'm noticing Wyverns are often designed with a hook-like or pincer like tail that I imagine they also use. This, combined with the ferocious talons and maw, gives me the impression that Wyverns will fight with more aggression in close quarters, making the lance a cumbersome choice of weapon for anything other than the initial lunge.

As for secondary weapons, I favor the concept of giving pegs staves upon promotion. Again, Valkyrie imagery in which they swoop from the heavens to save lives. Wyvern promotions could have really anything else. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Glennstavos

[Thinks Their Own Way]

1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

As for Falcon Knights not being able to make a dent, I'm pretty sure he means that Falcon Knights are often inferior to primarily magical classes like Bishops/Sages as healers.

Pretty much this; It doesn't help that the class in the 3DS games has a 10% magic growth and characters who start off in the Pegasus/Sky Knight classes (not counting re-classing) with pretty low to meh growths (3DS standards) and bases in magic.

[Jotari]

I've never found Falcon Knights as all that inferior as healers. Not like you need a bunch of magic to effectively heal. A mend stave is going to get most characters up to full health or near enough to make no difference. If they're really struggling you could always use Recover for guaranteed full health. Not like that staff will be useful on your mages. Utility with stuff like Barrier is also irrelevant. Like sure they're not going to be as effective as your primary stave users but they're not meant to be, it's their sub weapon. And they're still really useful. They do have high movement and ignore terrain meaning they can actually cover the map and get to the units that need healing easier than even Valkyries.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Jotari

[Enaluxeme]

Personally I think you can have a bunch of different promotions to give pegasus a different sub weapon, keeping lances as the main weapon. Like Falcon Knights with Swords, Seraph Knights with Staves, Dark Riders with Anima/Dark.

Lances and Axes (specifically poleaxes) just seem like easier weapons to use on a flying mount than swords, it doesn't suit low-tier classes to use swords IMO.

[Shadow Mir]

23 minutes ago, I'm a Spheal said:

Pretty much this; It doesn't help that the class in the 3DS games has a 10% magic growth and characters who start off in the Pegasus/Sky Knight classes (not counting re-classing) with pretty low to meh growths (3DS standards) and bases in magic.

Personally, I don't see the likes of sages as being THAT much better at healing, especially in Fates. Also, as stated earlier, being able to ignore terrain means they're better at getting to the units that really need healing.

[LucarioGamer812]

I say Pegasus units have lances at base and Swords when Falcon knights or Axes when Wyvern Lords, the concept of Dark Flier and Kinshi knight were cool too but as much as I love Dark Fliers (and galeforce) Give me sword Falcon Knights any time.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Maybe instead of locking the entire Peg class into Lances or Swords, you can choose specializations for your units?

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Maybe instead of locking the entire Peg class into Lances or Swords, you can choose specializations for your units?

Or just go the Jugdral route and give them both at tier 1. No real reason cavaliers should have a monopoly on dual weapon types.

[Hawkwing]

Pegasus knights should keep the lances, but I do find it difficult to decide what their second weapon should be after promotion. Swords would help them counter their weakness to axes, similarly to how wyvren lords gain lances to defend against swords, but pegasus knights aren't famed for their strength, so it might be wasted on them. By the time you gave them magic, you probably already have enough well trained magic users that it would become redundant. I've heard (because I've never actually played fates) that Kinshi knights make good hit-and-run units, but are especially risky to use. I see staves as the most useful secondary item you can give pegasus knights (since any amount of healing is welcome), but they risk the chance of never being used, as they'll spend more time fighting that healing, and  again, you probably already have dedicated healers anyway.

Wyvren riders should keep their axes, and I like wvyren lords, so I want them to stay. I don't know other weapon to give them upon promotion, as long as we don't get Griffin riders again (they looked cool, but thats about it).

I know this isn't an original idea, but can we have sword weilding Griffin riders? It would complete the weapon triangle for flying units, and they could have an efficiency with defence and balance, while pegs focus on speed and resistance, while wyvern's are focused on strength.

[SavageVolug]

I'm fine with Pegasi wielding lances but I would like to see them wield swords again reason being if attacked by a Fighter or something it at least gives them an avoidance boost if a sword is equipped, that and I like weapon versatility for all classes and since Wyverns/Dracos wield axes and lances there's no point in giving pegasi axes so that leaves us with swords. While we're on the topic though I would like to see the bases and growths given a boost in HP, Str, and Def making them a little more comparable to paladins in stats. One thing that has always bugged me is it's a FLYING HORSE! How on earth is this a weak class? And in mythology this steed was used to allow heroes to fight things like dragons. Essentially I would like to see them made more similar to cavaliers in stats and growths.

[Hawkwing]

29 minutes ago, SavageVolug said:

One thing that has always bugged me is it's a FLYING HORSE! How on earth is this a weak class? And in mythology this steed was used to allow heroes to fight things like dragons. Essentially I would like to see them made more similar to cavaliers in stats and growths.

I can understand them not being powerhouses for balancing reasons, to prevent them from blitzing maps and flying circles around the other classes (pun intended). That being said, I do agree that they need a boost in power. I barely used them in Awakening, as Sumia could dodge and double anything, but couldn't put a dent in anything without more powerful weaponry, and Cordelia was useful, but never a top performer for me. I always ended up using (ironically reclassed, as Cherche was an average unit, and Gerome never ended up good for me, no matter who the father was) wyvern riders over them because their focus on strength and defense made up for their short comings. The only time I really used them was in Shadows of Valentia, where on normal difficulty they don't need to worry about their weakness to bows because their never common until the end of the game,  and even on hard, when enemy bows are common, they're still useful by being a highly mobile class. You just have to be more cautious using them.

I honestly wish for dismounting to return, just so that a pegasus rider could fight within the range of an archer without worry at the cost of their signature mobility. That, and it would make indoor maps interesting again.

[SavageVolug]

1 hour ago, Hawkwing said:

I can understand them not being powerhouses for balancing reasons, to prevent them from blitzing maps and flying circles around the other classes (pun intended). That being said, I do agree that they need a boost in power. I barely used them in Awakening, as Sumia could dodge and double anything, but couldn't put a dent in anything without more powerful weaponry, and Cordelia was useful, but never a top performer for me. I always ended up using (ironically reclassed, as Cherche was an average unit, and Gerome never ended up good for me, no matter who the father was) wyvern riders over them because their focus on strength and defense made up for their short comings. The only time I really used them was in Shadows of Valentia, where on normal difficulty they don't need to worry about their weakness to bows because their never common until the end of the game,  and even on hard, when enemy bows are common, they're still useful by being a highly mobile class. You just have to be more cautious using them.

I honestly wish for dismounting to return, just so that a pegasus rider could fight within the range of an archer without worry at the cost of their signature mobility. That, and it would make indoor maps interesting again.

Agreed. And I'm not saying turn them into One Unit Armies but at the same time they have a tendency of being the weakest units on the battlefield. Why give them unrestricted movement in the first place if because of their stats they can't take advantage of it? This is why I made the cavalier comparison because it's a solid, reliable class with good movement but it's also not invincible, I enjoy the occasional unit or character who is a powerhouse but a character or unit doesn't NEED to be a powerhouse in order to be a reliable contribution to the team. For example Eliwood is no powerhouse but I consider him a solid and reliable unit who has served me well several times and there are other unit comparisons as well that this is true of.

[Jotari]

I don't see any major necessity to rebalance pegasi stat wise. If you find them to be by and large the weakest unit on the field then I think you're playing them wrong. Their high maneuverability, ability to double almost anything (unless you're giving them the heavier lances in GBA) and high resistance gives them a very strong niche. If anything draco knights in comparison should get a nerf as they just tend to be without significant weaknesses at all in a lot of games (well they do have low res but so do most classes and the scarcity of enemy mages compared to physical units barely makes that a weakness).

Edited November 9, 2017 by Jotari

[X-Naut]

Pegasus Knights with swords and Dracoknights with axes. Falcon Knights gets staffs, Dragon Lords get lances, and Griffon Knights are a shared promotion with swords and axes.

[Anomalocaris]

I vote to keep Pegasus Knights, Falcon Knights, and Dark Falcons as they are weapon-wise, but re-introduce Griffon Riders as a third flying-type mount with swords.

Alternatively, give each base class three different promotion choices instead of two, and use that to introduce a new subset of Pegasus Knight that wields swords.

[henrymidfields]

On 11/9/2017 at 11:52 AM, Jotari said:

If anything draco knights in comparison should get a nerf as they just tend to be without significant weaknesses at all in a lot of games (well they do have low res but so do most classes and the scarcity of enemy mages compared to physical units barely makes that a weakness).

Could part of that be solved by having more enemies carry anti-dragon weapons in later chapters and higher difficulties like Chapter 26 of Fates (I think, if I remember correctly) did?

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

Could part of that be solved by having more enemies carry anti-dragon weapons in later chapters and higher difficulties like Chapter 26 of Fates (I think, if I remember correctly) did?

Well it would help but designing a unit around being weak to one specific weapon isn't great in my eyes. I'd make draco knights a bit slower so enemy heroes and warriors even have a chance of doubling them (not quite as slow as Generals but in that range with more of a focus on strength than defense). I'd also make enemy mages a bit more common place (and give a very slight boost to the Res to the non General infantry classes).

[Lodestar65]

(Assuming branching promotions return) Give Falcon Knights swords again, but make a new promotion with higher magic that has staves. Wyverns can stay the same as they are in Fates.