Sylvester Stallone in Sid Meier's Bram Stoker's Tony Hawk's Pro The Shawshank Ultra Street Brothers Marvel vs Colosseum Red Rogue Godfather Part 360 Temple of the Bravely Independence Elder Scrolls of Radiance Hyper Deluxe Edition Z: Goldeneye Harder

[Elieson]

Oh shit, gotta sort those roles out

[Elieson]

2 hours ago, Elieson said:

Living Players;

4. Jaybee
6. LG
7. Junk
8. Bartozio
9. Michelaar
10. Green Poet
11. SB
13. Greencapps
14. Elieson

 

Dead Players:

15. Proto/Oboro Snike Lynched D1: Rocky Balboa, the Town Italian Stallion 1x Rogue + Something

2. Walrein Lynched D2: Edna Mode, the Mafia Super Costume Maker Framer & Hooker

3. Prims Killed N2: Dutch Schaefer, Town Jungle Hunter TrackerWatcher Counter (Sees how many visited/was visiting, not whomst)

1. Marth/Magnificence Lynched D3: Vergil, the Mafia Dark Slayer Motivator

5. Shinori Killed N3: Medivh, the Town Guardian of Tirisfal Safeguard

12. Refa Killed N3: Vegeta, the Town Prince of Saiyans Ascetic + 1x Delayed Kill Vig

16. kirsche Killed N3: Hilda, the Town Unova Trainer 1x Follow / 1x Watch / 1x Doc

17. Ice Sage Killed D4: Cidolfus Demen Bunansa, the Mafia Doctor of Draklor Lab RolePM Keeper & Deadplayer 1-record Action Tracker 

 

something like that? idk

Edited November 21, 2017 by Elieson

[SB.]

Hey, if anyone spoke to IceSage either last night or before his killing today, talk to me.

[SB.]

@Reinfleche were we in *YLO at the beginning of the day?

[riariadne]

Uh technically town were in extremely unlikely disaster case *YLO

[SB.]

Don’t quicklynch GP while I’m at work, need to think

[Elieson]

ugh

[Junk]

##vote Bartizio

so basically I feel like bart is trying to coast through the game, His reasoning for not wanting to claim to elie is because elie won't full claim to him but elie has far more credibility as far demanding a claim goes whereas bart doesn't have much going for him so why should he receive elie's full claim? While it is possible that elie is the third party he never actually mentions that as a possibility in his reasoning and even says that he still thinks elie is most likely town. (IMO elie isn't mafia scum for sure since if  he was he dayvigged his own scumbuddy meaning two mafia scum could die today instead of just one if we had just lynched ice).

 He says he wants a gp or jb lynch but his jb lynch just feels thrown out there, "waiting things out" is really vague imo. Basically I feel like his refusal to fullclaim to elie despite thinking elie is likely to be town (and in his eyes should be confirmed since he never brought up the third party possibility?) makes it harder to figure out his alignment and thus draws attention away from him while his jb lynch just feels thrown out there to make him look better.

 

Spoiler

commie scum - Today at 10:39 AM
Hello
Any thoughts on what we should do now?
Bartozio - Today at 10:40 AM
Hi
on lynches, I'd say GP or JB
I want to talk to GP again for a bit before I make a call on who
commie scum - Today at 10:42 AM
why @both
Bartozio - Today at 10:42 AM
I posted a case about GP I think
I know I did actually, it was D2
commie scum - Today at 10:43 AM
Hmm okay
Bartozio - Today at 10:43 AM
And JB feels like he is just waiting things out a bit to much for my taste
commie scum - Today at 10:44 AM
hmm alright
what do you think of Elie's slot?
Bartozio - Today at 10:44 AM
I was thinking town, but after I talked to him for a bit I'm starting to get doubts
commie scum - Today at 10:45 AM
Okay yeah I saw the logs
May I ask why though
You didn't really give a reason
From what I saw
Bartozio - Today at 10:45 AM
Ah, you mean my recent talk with him
I'm mostly not liking how he doesn't want to share his role details to me, even though he has already said on D1 his role isn't to relevant
commie scum - Today at 10:49 AM
Hmm why do you want to know his role?
Bartozio - Today at 10:52 AM
because it helps me to keep an eye on him so to say
just in case my townread turns out wrong
commie scum - Today at 10:57 AM
hmm what alignment do you think he is?
Bartozio - Today at 10:58 AM
He's still more likely to be town
But I'm not sure enough that I want to stop considering that he might be scum
commie scum - Today at 10:59 AM
hmm okay

 

[Junk]

btw i feel he is more likely to be the itp than mafia since i feel like coasting is what an itp wants to do at this point but i guess it is possible for him to be mafia scum.

[Elieson]

@SB. we need to talk

[SB.]

Would the overly specific vigilante claim please talk to me? Thanks.

[Bartozio]

To clarify few points then:

20 minutes ago, Junk said:

##vote Bartizio

Bartozio. I've seen it writen this way a few times, so I wanted to correct it in case it isn't a typo.

20 minutes ago, Junk said:

so basically I feel like bart is trying to coast through the game, His reasoning for not wanting to claim to elie is because elie won't full claim to him but elie has far more credibility as far demanding a claim goes whereas bart doesn't have much going for him so why should he receive elie's full claim?

While it is possible that elie is the third party he never actually mentions that as a possibility in his reasoning and even says that he still thinks elie is most likely town. (IMO elie isn't mafia scum for sure since if  he was he dayvigged his own scumbuddy meaning two mafia scum could die today instead of just one if we had just lynched ice).

Right, third party is a thing, I should keep that in mind. I indeed didn't like the fact that Elie didn't want to full claim to me. Him not claiming felt like he doesn't want people looking over his shoulder to much, and that made me wonder whether there's a reason for that (especially since he already mentioned he thought his role was expendable).

Elie explained his reasoning to me, and after thinking on it for a bit, I decided that his explanation, together with my orginal townread on Elie and the way the conversation went was enough reason to still full claim to him.

For people wondering about the timeline:

I claimed to Elie after this log with Junk, but before I learned of his case.

20 minutes ago, Junk said:

 He says he wants a gp or jb lynch but his jb lynch just feels thrown out there, "waiting things out" is really vague imo. Basically I feel like his refusal to fullclaim to elie despite thinking elie is likely to be town (and in his eyes should be confirmed since he never brought up the third party possibility?) makes it harder to figure out his alignment and thus draws attention away from him while his jb lynch just feels thrown out there to make him look better.

To clearify my JB case then, it feels like he's going with whatever the TL or a majority says, instead of actually thinking about stuff himself.

Some things I don't get:

1. How does not full claiming draw attention away from me when most people will full claim? I'd think that would make me stand out more (genuine question btw).
2. A good part of your case seems to center around the fact that I didn't want to full claim, but even at the start I was more then willing to (although I wanted Elie's full claim in exchange). You mentioned you read the log between me and Elie, so how does this factor into your case exactly?

[SB.]

14 minutes ago, SB. said:

Would the overly specific vigilante claim please talk to me? Thanks.

If everybody could message me in general to confirm/deny that they are/aren't this guy I'd appreciate it.

[Elieson]

19 hours ago, Elieson said:

 

Buggers, but the longstanding theory/idea/case is:

 

Marth (Claimed Even-Night Motivator but really just an any-night Motivator, proven thanks to me shooting Ice today) was seen visiting GP on N1 by some sort of Track (I know the source).

GP claims to have visited Michelaar N1. However, GP was caught visiting prims N1.

-The flip of Marth and the claims of GP along with evidence of visitation just don't make sense. No more dispute about lynching GP. I was just confused since I missed half of the story.

##Vote Green Poet

[Elieson]

Also because discord formatting is literal ass unless you copy/paste plaintext (ctrl+shift+v), here's a readable list of RolePMs:

 

 

--Proto Snike--

Spoiler

 

Proto Snike, you are Rocky Balboa, the Town Italian Stallion.

“I guess what I’m trying to say is, if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change!”
Originally a small-name fighter working for debt collectors, one day boxing champion Apollo Creed challenged you to a match, and the rest is history. In the big matches of the movies, you’re basically always down early but then come back to win it all! Except your record in major matches is something like 4-3. Go figure. You’ve long since escaped needing to work for debt collectors, but this Mafia sounds a whole lot worse too.
You’re a tough competitor, but you don’t like it when others interfere. You fight fair- roles that would protect you won’t take any effect.
You go down, you get back up again… usually. At night you may respond to this role PM “Night X: It’s about how hard you can get hit, USER.” If USER makes an attempt to kill you the night you submit this, you’ll use your resilience to take the hit just fine. If you succeed, you’ll lose this ability, but gain a new one.

You are aligned with the Town, and win if all threats to your faction are eliminated, or this is in some way inevitable.

 

--Walrein--

Spoiler

 

Walrein, you are Edna Mode, the Mafia Super Costume Designer.
“And machine washable, darling, that’s a new feature.”
A costume designer for superheroes, you had to switch your profession to designing for models when a law was put into place banning supers from using their powers. However, making clothes like that was so boring that you just had to start working for supers again from behind the scenes- you get to use much more interesting materials! Recently the Mafia has hired you to design for an impressive array of people, and they asked now before you decided to think sanely.

You can make a perfect costume for just about anyone. At night you may respond to this role PM “Night X: USER, you will look wonderful, darling! Like this: <PM>” and provide with a false role PM without flavor. For that night, any investigative actions made on them will find results (nothing looks at flavor) based on the corresponding parts of the fake role PM instead of their real role PM.
You also have a large variety of works and love to show them off. At night you may respond to this role PM “Night X: Displaying the gallery for Edna Mode… and guest, USER.” You will show USER all the super suits you’ve designed, taking so long that they won’t have any time left to perform any of their night actions.

You are aligned with the Mafia, and win if all threats to your faction are eliminated, or this is in some way inevitable.

 

--prims--

Spoiler

 

Prims, you are Dutch Schaefer, the Town Jungle Hunter.
“If it bleeds, we can kill it.”
A Major in the US Army who served in Vietnam, you’re an elite soldier. You were sent to lead a team to Val Verde under the pretense of saving captured Guatemalan cabinet members, but instead you ended up having to deal with an alien called the Predator using traps and your wits after your team was killed. Compared to that, surely the Mafia shouldn’t be trouble… right?

You can use your trapping skills to detect activity of those around you. At night you may respond to this role PM “Night X: Trapping the area around USER.” You will learn the number of people who USER visited and the number of people who visited them (excluding yourself), but not who did either of them.

You are aligned with the Town, and win if all threats to your faction are eliminated, or this is in some way inevitable.

 

--Marth--

Spoiler

 

Marth, you are Vergil, the Mafia Dark Slayer.
“Foolishness, Dante, foolishness. Might controls everything, and without strength, you cannot protect anything- let alone yourself.”
The twin brother of Dante, you’re the son of the powerful demon Sparda and human woman Eva. You and your brother disagree on how to use the powers that your heritage grants you, with Dante seeking to fight against evil while you seek power at any cost, which puts you and your brother at odds. Often this brings you to do morally questionable things, such as joining the Mafia now. Oh well.

When you’re motivated, you can do powerful things- this time to teach others. At night you may respond to this role PM “Night X: Now, you’re a little motivated, USER.” USER will feel stronger, and will be able to use one of their night actions one more time the next night. However, this can’t be used to perform extra kills, for any reason. They’re only a little motivated.

You are aligned with the Mafia, and win if all threats to your faction are eliminated, or this is in some way inevitable.

 

--Refa--

Spoiler

 

Refa, you are Vegeta, the Town Prince of Saiyans.
“Let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear?”
You are the prince of the near-extinct Saiyan race, which is a fact you remind everyone near you of constantly. After working for Frieza against your will for years, you invaded the Earth to fight against Kakarot (aka Goku), but ended up losing and forming a begrudging alliance with him against global threats like Frieza, Cell, and Buu.

As the prince of the Saiyan race, you hardly find anything threatening! Anything targeting you that doesn’t kill you will be completely ignored. Help is not appreciated either, so this includes positive roles too.
You have plenty of powerful techniques, but your strongest is the Final Flash. Once at night you may respond to this role PM “Night X: Once again you have taken for granted the powers of a true Saiyan warrior! If you really want to test your strength, USER stay right where you are! FINAL FLASH!” You will destroy USER in a powerful burst of energy… but unfortunately, this takes a very long time to charge in true DBZ fashion, so it won’t happen until the next night.

You are aligned with the Town, and win if all threats to your faction are eliminated, or this is in some way inevitable.

 

--Shinori--

Spoiler

 

Shinori, you are Medivh, the Town Guardian of Tirisfal.
“And now that my task is done, I will take my place among the legends of the past.”
You were born to the Guardian Aegwynn, but even before you were born you were corrupted by the evil lord of the Burning Legion, Sargeras. Using his powers he possessed you and forced you to open the Dark Portal leading the Horde into Azeroth, but you were killed soon after by your friend Lothar. However, you were then revived as a prophet, atoning for your past by leading the mortal races to Kalimdor to defeat Archimonde in the Battle of Mount Hyjal. Now you’ve retired of sorts, so you have all sorts of time to do dumb bullshit like play Mafia.

Being not mind controlled this time, you can use your magic for the betterment of others. At night you may respond to this role PM "Night X: Casting Force of Will on USER." You will shield USER from all negative actions that target them during that night phase... except kills. Those are harder to shield or something.

You are aligned with the Town, and win if all threats to your faction are eliminated, or this is in some way inevitable.

 

--kirsche--

Spoiler

 

kirsche, you are Hilda, the Town Unova Trainer.
“Everything can be understood through Pokemon battles! Let’s go!”
The female player character in Pokemon Black and White and cooler counterpart to Hilbert, you went across the lands fighting against Team Plasma, capturing either the legendary Zekrom or Reshiram. In the sequel, Black and White Two, you’re much referred to but never seen, as you’re off journeying in distant lands but having become a hero to the Unova Region you hail from. Little did everyone know you left doing heroic things just to play a Mafia game… what a slacker.

You have three Pokemon with you, and will switch out in order to use a different one each night. After you use each, you’ll start back on the first one. The syntax is “Night X: …”
+Tepig: “Flame Charging after USER with Tepig.” You will follow USER around, seeing who they visit at night.
+Sawk: “Staying alert of USER with Sawk’s Focus Energy.” You will survey USER’s location, learning of who visited them.
+Zekrom: “Staving off attacks on USER with Zekrom’s Bolt Strike.” Anyone who would target USER with a lethal action will have that action fail in fear of retribution.

You are aligned with the Town, and win if all threats to your faction are eliminated, or this is in some way inevitable.

 

--Ice Sage--

Spoiler

 

Ice, you are Cidolfus Demen Bunansa, the Mafia Doctor of Draklor Lab.
“The reigns of history back in the hands of man.”
Also called Dr. Cid, you are a scientist who works for the Archadian Empire studying nethicite, powerful sources of magic, and even learned to manufacture your own. All this was in an effort to rid Ivalice of the Occuria, powerful beings who alter history according to their desires, hence your motto. Your son Balthier, among others, opposed this because of the morally dubious path you took to power. In your opinion, Balthier can fuck off, he was a role twice already- now it’s your turn to run the Mafia.

The Archadian Empire keeps many secrets, and that includes you. So long as you are alive in the game, when a person dies, their full role PM will not be revealed. Instead they will be shown in a “cardflip” manner where only their role name is shown. You are exempt and will learn their full role PMs. However, if you die, you and all other dead players will have their full role PMs revealed, and any players who may die in the future will die with their roles public as well.
The rogue Occuria, Venat, provides you with assistance. At night, you may respond to this role PM “Night X: Grant me USER’s power, Venat.” USER must be dead. You will be able to use one of USER’s actions that night (but not anything that would provide an extra kill) using their syntax. You can only use any given USER’s power once.

You are aligned with the Mafia, and win if all threats to your faction are eliminated, or this is in some way inevitable.

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Elieson

[Elieson]

20 minutes ago, Elieson said:

GP claims to have visited Michelaar N1. However, GP was caught visiting prims N1.

N2

Sorry

[Junk]

##unvote

## vote GP

i'm talking to bartozio in discord

[Green Poet]

For those that didn't already know - I'm a martyr and targeted Mich N1 and N2 (under Prims' orders) and kirsche N3 (under Refa's orders), only the last of which was unsuccessful.

Normally I might be fine with this lynch because it would point to Elie's source being scum, but I got the OK from Elie to say that it was kirsche's watch on Prims that gave him that info (directly heard from kirsche himself, so it was not a secondhand report). In other words, my lynch can't lead to a guaranteed scum lynch tomorrow, because it's not my word vs. anyone else's who's alive.

So the only other lead we have to go on is the announcer, who alleged at phase start that I'm scum. This person should step forward because, well, I'm not scum and they're lying or mistaken, and they've only claimed to Elie as far as I've been told. If they get their way and I die today, Elie is also likely to die tonight given that we have lost kirsche, would have lost my martyr, and basically have no other protective roles to ensure that Elie or anyone else who actually has the announcer's claim will remain alive. Please don't lynch anyone until, at the very least, we are able to examine the announcer and their claim today.

Either that, or Elie is some sort of ITP. This would explain how both he and Refa could have vig shots in this setup, and how he's willing to kill both scum and town this phase. That's not as concrete to me as this announcer, though.

[riariadne]

Green Poet (2): Elieson, Junko

tough votals

23 hours 23 minutes left in the day phase. Though maybe longer if I have to stay in late for work tomorrow like I did today.

[Green Poet]

Okay, I've waited almost 12 hours since I called them out, and the announcer's silence has told me what I needed to know. They are scum, because:

1. I've also reached out to several players during these 12 hours. No one has claimed announcer in-thread or to me, even though it's not a powerful role, would help everyone distinguish my alignment, and is easily verifiable by lack of CC (and if someone CCs, that gives us a guaranteed scum lynch either today or tomorrow via the 1v1). Publicly claiming announcer was the protown move. That they didn't means that they don't want to be known, or to be held accountable by anyone but Elie, or it's simply Elie himself. Either way, the announcer isn't claiming because they have something to hide, and a town announcer has no reason to hide right now.

2. Why is the announcer not TL right now if Refa trusted them? The announcer alleges that Refa trusted them with his next lynch, and yet Refa didn't make this person backup TL to actually enforce that lynch? Nor did Refa actually give them the proof? The announcer is trying to use Refa's name to anonymously control a lynch.

The announcer's proof and identity aren't verifiable, and kirsche's word that comprises Elie's case isn't verifiable. Also, here's proof that the announcer isn't me, and also proof that Elie claims they claimed to him:

Spoiler

[4:37 PM] Elieson: and yea i have the announcer claim

[4:38 PM] Nouvelle: ok. and they did legitimately post that announcement based on a convo they had with refa?

[4:39 PM] Elieson: they quoted it based on what refa said to say, from what I can tell that is

In other words, the one person who holds the evidence for Elie's case on me is dead and unreachable (kirsche), and the person backing up the case won't tell anyone but Elie who they are, so they are also unreachable (the announcer). Elie actually went at length to explain to me how there are no roles obfuscating kirsche's results that his case is based on, as you can see below (bolded parts by me for emphasis) - it's entirely kirsche's word and it seems no one alive can confirm kirsche actually said it.

Spoiler

[4:11 PM] Elieson: yea

[4:11 PM] Elieson: i can't argue with what i've been handed

[4:12 PM] Elieson: sorry :/

[4:13 PM] Nouvelle: can you paste the log of the report sent to you, minus names? I wonder if the person was targeting mich, who from earlier today demonstrated that he's most likely a cop

[4:14 PM] Elieson: i'm not sure i understand the request

[4:14 PM] Elieson: ?

[4:14 PM] Nouvelle: mich most likely scanned prims N1 and thus someone was redirected to me off of mich

[4:14 PM] Nouvelle: what I'm saying is, I want to verify that your source is actually saying they saw me visit, and wasn't actually confused in that they were redirected to me from mich or something

[4:15 PM] Elieson: the convenient thing is that kirsche, the now dead watchertracker [whatever his role officially is, jack something], is the one that told me about you visiting prims

[4:15 PM] Nouvelle: hmm

[4:15 PM] Nouvelle: I see no reason for him to have lied

[4:15 PM] Elieson: i can't argue with the dead town's story

[4:16 PM] Elieson: you said you visited mich but the dead guy who has no reason to lie says you visited prims, and to my knowledge, you're the only source of redirection

[4:16 PM] Elieson: like I said

[4:16 PM] Elieson: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[4:16 PM] Nouvelle: this makes me more hesitant though. normally this proposition would be, if there was no confusion on the investigator's part, then either they or I are scum

[4:16 PM] Nouvelle: so lynching me guarantees a scum lynch within the next day, at most

[4:16 PM] Nouvelle: but saying that kirsche told you this means that if you mislynch, there is no town benefit

[4:16 PM] Elieson: well

[4:16 PM] Elieson: here's the thing

[4:17 PM] Elieson: for you not to flip scum

[4:17 PM] Elieson: kirsche would have to have been wrong

[4:17 PM] Elieson: or told the wrong thing

[4:17 PM] Nouvelle: well, it's impossible to verify if he was confused by mich's targeting of prims

[4:17 PM] Elieson: that's a chance i'm willing to take, because there's no evidence of anyone else sans a potential ninja, being responsible for prims dying

[4:18 PM] Elieson: mich doesn't have a way to mess with a scan of kirsche's calibur

[4:19 PM] Elieson: what i'm not sure of is which investigation kirsche actually used, the track on you, or the watch on prims, but either way, it caught you and i'm assuming that if it was the watch ( a better idea and my personal choice if i had that power ) then it covers all possibilities sans a ninja

[4:19 PM] Nouvelle: hold on, how does a ninja come into this?

[4:19 PM] Elieson: if kirsche watched Prims N1: saw "Only GP visited prims" and prims died

[4:19 PM] Elieson: and you didn't kill prims

[4:19 PM] Nouvelle: N2 was the night prims was killed, not N1?

[4:19 PM] Elieson: err

[4:19 PM] Elieson: N2

[4:19 PM] Elieson: yea

[4:19 PM] Elieson: derp

[4:20 PM] Nouvelle: either way, it doesn't matter because someone is still mistaken or lying

[4:20 PM] Nouvelle: because I did mean N1, and both my N1 and N2 targets were mich

[4:20 PM] Elieson: i typed the wrong thing in the game thread

[4:20 PM] Elieson: i meant N2

[4:20 PM] Elieson: i'm a complete doofus

[4:20 PM] Elieson: i'm also cleaning up my house, my mom visits for the week, tonight

[4:21 PM] Elieson: N1 was the marth thing, where marth was seen visiting you

[4:21 PM] Nouvelle: hmm

[4:21 PM] Elieson: N2 was the you thing, where you were seen visiting prims

[4:22 PM] Elieson: n1 is simple; marth claims even-only, but acted on an odd night. bam n2 is a bit different here because you're not flipped

[4:22 PM] Nouvelle: did kirsche tell you this himself or was it relayed via someone else?

[4:22 PM] Elieson: kirsche himself

[4:22 PM] Elieson: after we hashed it out regarding the snike debacle, we talked

[4:22 PM] Nouvelle: that's very odd

[4:23 PM] Nouvelle: has anyone claimed a role that obfuscates roles or visits to you?

[4:23 PM] Elieson: that's the thing

[4:23 PM] Elieson: no

[4:24 PM] Elieson: granted, i haven't talked to a few people since the start of d4 but from what i have heard + what i already knew

[4:24 PM] Elieson: there's nothing out there that conflict, that's public knowledge

[4:24 PM] Elieson: conflicts*

[4:26 PM] Nouvelle: hmm. I think it would be best for you to try and collect more claims and see if there are additional conflicts

[4:27 PM] Nouvelle: I'm fine with dying in a 1v1, but this isn't a 1v1 and won't progress us. there has to be some more information that isn't known yet

[4:35 PM] Nouvelle: hold on, has anyone claimed announcer to you?

[4:35 PM] Nouvelle: that's the last thing that's been bugging me. if someone has claimed, and you can verify their sources, then we might have a 1v1 we can get out of this lynch after all

[4:36 PM] Nouvelle: but if not, then something's off about how today's announcement is saying I'm scum, but no one's stepping forth even to a TL to verify the information

[4:37 PM] Elieson: it's entirely possible that any 'official' backups were killed in the triplemurder

[4:37 PM] Elieson: and yea i have the announcer claim

[4:38 PM] Nouvelle: ok. and they did legitimately post that announcement based on a convo they had with refa?

[4:39 PM] Elieson: they quoted it based on what refa said to say, from what I can tell that is

[4:39 PM] Elieson: i mean they -could- be making that part up but then it wouldn't match with the information of the history on you

[4:39 PM] Elieson: that refa no doubt knew, since he knew baout the marth thing

[4:40 PM] Nouvelle: that'll have to be good enough

[4:40 PM] Nouvelle: they're probably the one to look into tomorrow

[4:41 PM] Elieson: i do have the announcer under surveillence

[4:42 PM] Elieson: but it's definitely not a 1-v-1 because the case on you doesn't actually have anything to do with the announcer

[4:42 PM] Nouvelle: how do you mean?

[4:43 PM] Elieson: kirsche caught you

[4:43 PM] Elieson: announcer announced that you're mafia

[4:43 PM] Elieson: kirsche isn't the announcer

[4:43 PM] Elieson: ergo, unless kirsche was just telling me that someone else caught you, and he was pretending to be the one who did it himself to cover

[4:44 PM] Elieson: idk announcer or whoever

[4:44 PM] Elieson: there's no logical point in kirsche lying about what he got on you, and arguably, the announcer simply announced what kirsche told refa

[4:45 PM] Nouvelle: hmm, I see

[4:45 PM] Nouvelle: ugh, that makes me dissatisfied with this again

[4:45 PM] Elieson: remember too, walrein told me to reach out to you

[4:45 PM] Nouvelle: really don't like the idea of dying in a case where it won't advance a scum lynch the next day

[4:45 PM] Elieson: way back when he had good reason to assume that i'm an ITP

[4:46 PM] Elieson: i could still be, who knows?!

[4:46 PM] Elieson: bring it up in thread

[4:46 PM] Elieson: talking things over to me isn't going to result in much unless you have some sort of new information to bring to the table

[4:46 PM] Nouvelle: am I allowed to say that your source is kirsche?

[4:46 PM] Elieson: at best, there's one of two people who could claim to have a redirection role, that would've had to have been on either you and/or michelar

[4:47 PM] Nouvelle: or should that be kept secret

[4:47 PM] Elieson: say whatever you want

[4:47 PM] Elieson: kirsche is dead

[4:47 PM] Elieson: it's not like i'm gonna get him killed

[4:47 PM] Nouvelle: fair enough

To me, I know that I did not visit Prims at any point during this game. My only successful target has been Mich, on both N1 and N2. But for everyone else considering how likely it is that Elie's telling the truth about kirsche, consider that...

We have a flipped vig, we know there is an ITP due to numbers (if you didn't know before, you do now), and there's the mafia factional kill. The kills last night were most likely caused by 1/1/1 from each faction, as Elie himself recognized:

Spoiler

[10:06 PM] Elieson: well

[10:06 PM] Elieson: i don't think yo'ure scum but

[10:06 PM] Nouvelle: but if that's actually the case and scum has that many kills, I don't think we'd have stood a chance anyway

[10:06 PM] Elieson: now that i'm effectively leader, i can convince people not to lynch you

[10:06 PM] Elieson: so there's that too

[10:06 PM] Elieson: i think it's town/maf/itp in that order

[10:07 PM] Nouvelle: sorry, what do you mean by "it's"? I don't follow

[10:07 PM] Elieson: the three deaths

[10:07 PM] Elieson: it's order is*

[10:07 PM] Nouvelle: oh, I see

There's no way town has Refa's night kill and Elie's day kill, or that ITP lacks a kill while town has a night kill AND a day AND night kill. The likeliest explanation is what Elie admitted above - that town has a night kill, mafia has a night kill, and ITP has a limited night kill and a day kill. Elie is most likely that ITP, and as I said before, he's either the announcer or is working with the scum announcer.

##Vote: Elie

Elie making a bid for TL makes sense if he's ITP - his "legitimacy" comes from shooting scum, so town wouldn't think to immediately lynch him for leading a mislynch like we would if a cop TL had claimed a false scan. That means he can mislynch as many times as he wants until people question if he was okay was shooting mafia because he's ITP, and even then he could just feign ignorance - "town makes mistakes, right?"

As we saw earlier today, Mich (or someone who has to speak through Mich) is the cop, but the whole game has been townreading Mich to the point that he's clearly unlynchable. I bet the only way to kill Mich is to end my martyrs on him, which scum hasn't been able to do all game, so they're forced to use this method now.

One last reason we should lynch Elie is that he's been trying to keep his role secret, and contradicting himself in his public claims, since the start of the game. Remember when he tried to become TL on D1? Back then he said his role was "expendable," yet he then proved he had a day kill. And now, as Bartozio told us, he's not willing to fullclaim to anyone.

[Michelaar]

4 hours ago, Green Poet said:

Okay, I've waited almost 12 hours since I called them out, and the announcer's silence has told me what I needed to know. They are scum, because:

1. I've also reached out to several players during these 12 hours. No one has claimed announcer in-thread or to me, even though it's not a powerful role, would help everyone distinguish my alignment, and is easily verifiable by lack of CC (and if someone CCs, that gives us a guaranteed scum lynch either today or tomorrow via the 1v1). Publicly claiming announcer was the protown move. That they didn't means that they don't want to be known, or to be held accountable by anyone but Elie, or it's simply Elie himself. Either way, the announcer isn't claiming because they have something to hide, and a town announcer has no reason to hide right now.

2. Why is the announcer not TL right now if Refa trusted them? The announcer alleges that Refa trusted them with his next lynch, and yet Refa didn't make this person backup TL to actually enforce that lynch? Nor did Refa actually give them the proof? The announcer is trying to use Refa's name to anonymously control a lynch.

The announcer's proof and identity aren't verifiable, and kirsche's word that comprises Elie's case isn't verifiable. Also, here's proof that the announcer isn't me, and also proof that Elie claims they claimed to him:

  Reveal hidden contents

[4:37 PM] Elieson: and yea i have the announcer claim

[4:38 PM] Nouvelle: ok. and they did legitimately post that announcement based on a convo they had with refa?

[4:39 PM] Elieson: they quoted it based on what refa said to say, from what I can tell that is

In other words, the one person who holds the evidence for Elie's case on me is dead and unreachable (kirsche), and the person backing up the case won't tell anyone but Elie who they are, so they are also unreachable (the announcer). Elie actually went at length to explain to me how there are no roles obfuscating kirsche's results that his case is based on, as you can see below (bolded parts by me for emphasis) - it's entirely kirsche's word and it seems no one alive can confirm kirsche actually said it.

  Reveal hidden contents

[4:11 PM] Elieson: yea

[4:11 PM] Elieson: i can't argue with what i've been handed

[4:12 PM] Elieson: sorry :/

[4:13 PM] Nouvelle: can you paste the log of the report sent to you, minus names? I wonder if the person was targeting mich, who from earlier today demonstrated that he's most likely a cop

[4:14 PM] Elieson: i'm not sure i understand the request

[4:14 PM] Elieson: ?

[4:14 PM] Nouvelle: mich most likely scanned prims N1 and thus someone was redirected to me off of mich

[4:14 PM] Nouvelle: what I'm saying is, I want to verify that your source is actually saying they saw me visit, and wasn't actually confused in that they were redirected to me from mich or something

[4:15 PM] Elieson: the convenient thing is that kirsche, the now dead watchertracker [whatever his role officially is, jack something], is the one that told me about you visiting prims

[4:15 PM] Nouvelle: hmm

[4:15 PM] Nouvelle: I see no reason for him to have lied

[4:15 PM] Elieson: i can't argue with the dead town's story

[4:16 PM] Elieson: you said you visited mich but the dead guy who has no reason to lie says you visited prims, and to my knowledge, you're the only source of redirection

[4:16 PM] Elieson: like I said

[4:16 PM] Elieson: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[4:16 PM] Nouvelle: this makes me more hesitant though. normally this proposition would be, if there was no confusion on the investigator's part, then either they or I are scum

[4:16 PM] Nouvelle: so lynching me guarantees a scum lynch within the next day, at most

[4:16 PM] Nouvelle: but saying that kirsche told you this means that if you mislynch, there is no town benefit

[4:16 PM] Elieson: well

[4:16 PM] Elieson: here's the thing

[4:17 PM] Elieson: for you not to flip scum

[4:17 PM] Elieson: kirsche would have to have been wrong

[4:17 PM] Elieson: or told the wrong thing

[4:17 PM] Nouvelle: well, it's impossible to verify if he was confused by mich's targeting of prims

[4:17 PM] Elieson: that's a chance i'm willing to take, because there's no evidence of anyone else sans a potential ninja, being responsible for prims dying

[4:18 PM] Elieson: mich doesn't have a way to mess with a scan of kirsche's calibur

[4:19 PM] Elieson: what i'm not sure of is which investigation kirsche actually used, the track on you, or the watch on prims, but either way, it caught you and i'm assuming that if it was the watch ( a better idea and my personal choice if i had that power ) then it covers all possibilities sans a ninja

[4:19 PM] Nouvelle: hold on, how does a ninja come into this?

[4:19 PM] Elieson: if kirsche watched Prims N1: saw "Only GP visited prims" and prims died

[4:19 PM] Elieson: and you didn't kill prims

[4:19 PM] Nouvelle: N2 was the night prims was killed, not N1?

[4:19 PM] Elieson: err

[4:19 PM] Elieson: N2

[4:19 PM] Elieson: yea

[4:19 PM] Elieson: derp

[4:20 PM] Nouvelle: either way, it doesn't matter because someone is still mistaken or lying

[4:20 PM] Nouvelle: because I did mean N1, and both my N1 and N2 targets were mich

[4:20 PM] Elieson: i typed the wrong thing in the game thread

[4:20 PM] Elieson: i meant N2

[4:20 PM] Elieson: i'm a complete doofus

[4:20 PM] Elieson: i'm also cleaning up my house, my mom visits for the week, tonight

[4:21 PM] Elieson: N1 was the marth thing, where marth was seen visiting you

[4:21 PM] Nouvelle: hmm

[4:21 PM] Elieson: N2 was the you thing, where you were seen visiting prims

[4:22 PM] Elieson: n1 is simple; marth claims even-only, but acted on an odd night. bam n2 is a bit different here because you're not flipped

[4:22 PM] Nouvelle: did kirsche tell you this himself or was it relayed via someone else?

[4:22 PM] Elieson: kirsche himself

[4:22 PM] Elieson: after we hashed it out regarding the snike debacle, we talked

[4:22 PM] Nouvelle: that's very odd

[4:23 PM] Nouvelle: has anyone claimed a role that obfuscates roles or visits to you?

[4:23 PM] Elieson: that's the thing

[4:23 PM] Elieson: no

[4:24 PM] Elieson: granted, i haven't talked to a few people since the start of d4 but from what i have heard + what i already knew

[4:24 PM] Elieson: there's nothing out there that conflict, that's public knowledge

[4:24 PM] Elieson: conflicts*

[4:26 PM] Nouvelle: hmm. I think it would be best for you to try and collect more claims and see if there are additional conflicts

[4:27 PM] Nouvelle: I'm fine with dying in a 1v1, but this isn't a 1v1 and won't progress us. there has to be some more information that isn't known yet

[4:35 PM] Nouvelle: hold on, has anyone claimed announcer to you?

[4:35 PM] Nouvelle: that's the last thing that's been bugging me. if someone has claimed, and you can verify their sources, then we might have a 1v1 we can get out of this lynch after all

[4:36 PM] Nouvelle: but if not, then something's off about how today's announcement is saying I'm scum, but no one's stepping forth even to a TL to verify the information

[4:37 PM] Elieson: it's entirely possible that any 'official' backups were killed in the triplemurder

[4:37 PM] Elieson: and yea i have the announcer claim

[4:38 PM] Nouvelle: ok. and they did legitimately post that announcement based on a convo they had with refa?

[4:39 PM] Elieson: they quoted it based on what refa said to say, from what I can tell that is

[4:39 PM] Elieson: i mean they -could- be making that part up but then it wouldn't match with the information of the history on you

[4:39 PM] Elieson: that refa no doubt knew, since he knew baout the marth thing

[4:40 PM] Nouvelle: that'll have to be good enough

[4:40 PM] Nouvelle: they're probably the one to look into tomorrow

[4:41 PM] Elieson: i do have the announcer under surveillence

[4:42 PM] Elieson: but it's definitely not a 1-v-1 because the case on you doesn't actually have anything to do with the announcer

[4:42 PM] Nouvelle: how do you mean?

[4:43 PM] Elieson: kirsche caught you

[4:43 PM] Elieson: announcer announced that you're mafia

[4:43 PM] Elieson: kirsche isn't the announcer

[4:43 PM] Elieson: ergo, unless kirsche was just telling me that someone else caught you, and he was pretending to be the one who did it himself to cover

[4:44 PM] Elieson: idk announcer or whoever

[4:44 PM] Elieson: there's no logical point in kirsche lying about what he got on you, and arguably, the announcer simply announced what kirsche told refa

[4:45 PM] Nouvelle: hmm, I see

[4:45 PM] Nouvelle: ugh, that makes me dissatisfied with this again

[4:45 PM] Elieson: remember too, walrein told me to reach out to you

[4:45 PM] Nouvelle: really don't like the idea of dying in a case where it won't advance a scum lynch the next day

[4:45 PM] Elieson: way back when he had good reason to assume that i'm an ITP

[4:46 PM] Elieson: i could still be, who knows?!

[4:46 PM] Elieson: bring it up in thread

[4:46 PM] Elieson: talking things over to me isn't going to result in much unless you have some sort of new information to bring to the table

[4:46 PM] Nouvelle: am I allowed to say that your source is kirsche?

[4:46 PM] Elieson: at best, there's one of two people who could claim to have a redirection role, that would've had to have been on either you and/or michelar

[4:47 PM] Nouvelle: or should that be kept secret

[4:47 PM] Elieson: say whatever you want

[4:47 PM] Elieson: kirsche is dead

[4:47 PM] Elieson: it's not like i'm gonna get him killed

[4:47 PM] Nouvelle: fair enough

To me, I know that I did not visit Prims at any point during this game. My only successful target has been Mich, on both N1 and N2. But for everyone else considering how likely it is that Elie's telling the truth about kirsche, consider that...

We have a flipped vig, we know there is an ITP due to numbers (if you didn't know before, you do now), and there's the mafia factional kill. The kills last night were most likely caused by 1/1/1 from each faction, as Elie himself recognized:

  Reveal hidden contents

[10:06 PM] Elieson: well

[10:06 PM] Elieson: i don't think yo'ure scum but

[10:06 PM] Nouvelle: but if that's actually the case and scum has that many kills, I don't think we'd have stood a chance anyway

[10:06 PM] Elieson: now that i'm effectively leader, i can convince people not to lynch you

[10:06 PM] Elieson: so there's that too

[10:06 PM] Elieson: i think it's town/maf/itp in that order

[10:07 PM] Nouvelle: sorry, what do you mean by "it's"? I don't follow

[10:07 PM] Elieson: the three deaths

[10:07 PM] Elieson: it's order is*

[10:07 PM] Nouvelle: oh, I see

There's no way town has Refa's night kill and Elie's day kill, or that ITP lacks a kill while town has a night kill AND a day AND night kill. The likeliest explanation is what Elie admitted above - that town has a night kill, mafia has a night kill, and ITP has a limited night kill and a day kill. Elie is most likely that ITP, and as I said before, he's either the announcer or is working with the scum announcer.

##Vote: Elie

Elie making a bid for TL makes sense if he's ITP - his "legitimacy" comes from shooting scum, so town wouldn't think to immediately lynch him for leading a mislynch like we would if a cop TL had claimed a false scan. That means he can mislynch as many times as he wants until people question if he was okay was shooting mafia because he's ITP, and even then he could just feign ignorance - "town makes mistakes, right?"

As we saw earlier today, Mich (or someone who has to speak through Mich) is the cop, but the whole game has been townreading Mich to the point that he's clearly unlynchable. I bet the only way to kill Mich is to end my martyrs on him, which scum hasn't been able to do all game, so they're forced to use this method now.

One last reason we should lynch Elie is that he's been trying to keep his role secret, and contradicting himself in his public claims, since the start of the game. Remember when he tried to become TL on D1? Back then he said his role was "expendable," yet he then proved he had a day kill. And now, as Bartozio told us, he's not willing to fullclaim to anyone.

But elie killed scum.

[Elieson]

3 hours ago, Green Poet said:

he's not willing to fullclaim to anyone.

Prims (and subsequently, Refa) knew my role.

 

To go one step beyond, the entire case on you stems from kirsche's results + marth's roleflip bringing new light on what was otherwise a puzzler:

16 hours ago, Elieson said:

Marth (Claimed Even-Night Motivator but really just an any-night Motivator, proven thanks to me shooting Ice today) was seen visiting GP on N1 by some sort of Track

This is what caught Marth in the first place, and had nothing to even do with me, so we still have to identify what reason Marth targetted GP for. In theory, Marth could've visited Michelaar N1 along with GP and GP decoy'd Marth to herself, but that means that we have to consider that Marth lied about his role, claimed not to be able to do anything on N1, but got busted doing something anyway. Why on earth would Marth claim Even-Night motivator, but try to motivate Michelaar on N1?

This is combined with the whole 'kirsche caught GP visiting prims on N2 aka the night he died' when GP swears up and down that she visited michelaar, which is arguably a proven stance since kirsche is dead and fed that info to people who called GP!scum out LONG before I did...

Even if you agree with my original thought that the night kills came from 1/1/1, it doesn't change the facts that there is evidence against you which Refa which:

Quote

Refa - Last Sunday at 9:01 PM
lmao
SEE YOU IN HELL ICE
Elieson - Last Sunday at 9:01 PM
yea
fwiw i was thinking ice
Refa - Last Sunday at 9:02 PM
well i have a lynch set up for tomorrow that's not ice but i think it's better if someone i'm not sure about gets vigged
or vengeanced
if u die
Elieson - Last Sunday at 9:02 PM
would you vig ice if you had a vig?
Refa - Last Sunday at 9:03 PM
yeah
a lot of people look good from associations w/scum or just conflicting roles so the poe is strong

this log from refa verifies, which drives the association of Refa to the anonymous Announcer (which I guess I could've faked but anyone else who talked to refa could probably back this up since it's a super ambiguous yet free-to-share statement.

 

The evidence is there and unless Announcer + I are using a dead guy's evidence with ill intent, and Refa knew about this in advance and just happened to not share any of this in such a way that would matter, you're caught.

[riariadne]

stellar 2 votes on gp but now gp is voting eli too

[Michelaar]

 ## Vote GP

[Bartozio]

##Vote: Green Poet