New to game. Need build advice

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Why the hell would you throw Leo into that many units in the first place??? That's certainly worth calling out.

Because as the math just demonstrated he would be guaranteed to survive as long as he had more than 40 HP, and would almost certainly survive as long as he has more than 30?

[Shadow Mir]

4 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Because as the math just demonstrated he would be guaranteed to survive as long as he had more than 40 HP, and would almost certainly survive as long as he has more than 30?

Far as I'm concerned, it's still not a good move in any way, shape or form, and only goes to show one of the flaws with one-rounding everything - you set yourself up to get attacked more, and potentially die thanks to getting overwhelmed.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[joshcja]

9 hours ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

Cavalier, Wyvern (+Mag for Malig Knight is pretty good especially), and Ninja are all really good. Berserker or Hero aren't bad either (though Berserker is better kept to other, non-Corrin units since Corrin can do just about anything else and there are loads of great Berserkers in Conquest).

Diviner isn't bad in stack builds since it gets Rally Magic - they're the only unit in Conquest capable of this outside of captured units, so it's pretty nice to have.

Missed this earlier... derp.

Freezana and Nyx!Nina get diviner yo.

Edited November 23, 2017 by joshcja

[De Geso]

Just now, joshcja said:

Freezana and Nyx!Nina get diviner yo.

Yeah, I mentioned earlier ITT about Izana. I wasn't aware that Nyx!Nina got Diviner, I forgot about the way class inheritance worked. May need to try that one.

[joshcja]

5 minutes ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

Yeah, I mentioned earlier ITT about Izana. I wasn't aware that Nyx!Nina got Diviner, I forgot about the way class inheritance worked. May need to try that one.

Yeah I missed that as well in Levant's trademark wall of ignoring math.

Diviner+DM tree is pretty fun with innate shurikenbreaker. Also Diviner outfit Nina is waifu tier. Not busted but fun to use.

Edited November 23, 2017 by joshcja

[Shadow Mir]

2 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Yeah I missed that as well in Levant's trademark eall of ignoring math.

Diviner tree is pretty fun with innate shurikenbreaker. Also Diviner outfit Nina is pretty waifu tier.

The only math I ignored was from a situation that was so obviously dumb that anyone with half a brain would've called it out. I mean, I'll give Alastor an A for effort, but that was just bad.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[joshcja]

5 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The only math I ignored was one that was so obviously dumb that anyone with half a brain would've called it out. I mean, Alastor gets an A for effort, but that was just bad.

Well yeah, with an Odin pairup at A+ Sorc!Leo can tank an unlimited number of units. Alastor was off by infinity-whatever but I'm afraid the point stands.

Edited November 23, 2017 by joshcja

[De Geso]

12 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The only math I ignored was from a situation that was so obviously dumb that anyone with half a brain would've called it out. I mean, I'll give Alastor an A for effort, but that was just bad.

Stop derailing threads with your contrarian nonsense. You don't need to raise your objection every time someone says something you disagree with. Make a thread about it, tag people in it if you're really desperate to get a rise out of someone.

This isn't to say you can't post your opinion, but you should stop re-iterating the same drivel over and over and over again, especially when it's been proven several times that others are right about nearly all of these topics. You ignore math and facts because they defy your opinion, and that is fucking ridiculous, dude.

Edited November 23, 2017 by YouSquiddinMe

[Shadow Mir]

6 minutes ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

Stop derailing threads with your contrarian nonsense. You don't need to raise your objection every time someone says something you disagree with. Make a thread about it, tag people in it if you're really desperate to get a rise out of someone.

This isn't to say you can't post your opinion, but you should stop re-iterating the same drivel over and over and over again, especially when it's been proven several times that others are right about nearly all of these topics. You ignore math and facts because they defy your opinion, and that is fucking ridiculous, dude.

Well, excuuuuse me for not being the type to ignore something that's so obviously wrong (like the lack of realism in Alastor's math - that's obviously an unrealistic situation there; who wouldn't see anything wrong with throwing a unit into that many enemies in the first place??). If it was a realistic situation, I would've been like "fair enough", but this is nuts.

[De Geso]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, excuuuuse me for not being the type to ignore something that's so obviously wrong (like the lack of realism in Alastor's math - that's obviously an unrealistic situation there; who wouldn't see anything wrong with throwing a unit into that many enemies in the first place??). If it was a realistic situation, I would've been like "fair enough", but this is nuts.

You are moving the goalposts to deny the fact that you are dead wrong about this topic. Regardless of whether or not that situation is realistic (which it is, by the way), the point was that with guard stance your survivability increases by an insane amount. However, you chose to ignore this because you knew that Alastor's math was correct.

Let me pose a question to you: Have you ever tried in earnest to use guard stance? Have you ever considered it? How about a Berserker?

I'm willing to bet you haven't. I'm willing to bet that you just look at how things appear at first glance, decide they are good or bad, and go with those assumptions until you are either proven wrong by the game or until the end of time, whichever comes first.

[joshcja]

13 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, excuuuuse me for not being the type to ignore something that's so obviously wrong (like the lack of realism in Alastor's math - that's obviously an unrealistic situation there; who wouldn't see anything wrong with throwing a unit into that many enemies in the first place??). If it was a realistic situation, I would've been like "fair enough", but this is nuts.

Because his unit can live and kill all of them with a 100% chance of success. There is no reason not to do this, ever, at all, nope, nuh-uh, zip, zero, zilch.

This is day 1 FE strats from (FE's Age) fucksforsaken years ago.

(Leo has high innate luck +Guard stance avoid + Sorc/DK's hidden avoid = nocrits even vs crit+ classes as the only relevant +crit higher than the stacked Cavoid is zerk and that faces tomes stupid A/S rank adds. Your pet argument is moot, null, void. TL:DR the only variance is in your favor. Fuck use forged fire if you fear critting the enemy fsr.)

Edited November 23, 2017 by joshcja

[Alastor15243]

30 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Well yeah, with an Odin pairup at A+ Sorc!Leo can tank an unlimited number of units. Alastor was off by infinity-whatever but I'm afraid the point stands.

Damn it! Forgot to carry the infinity AGAIN!

[joshcja]

9 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Damn it! Forgot to carry the infinity AGAIN!

By price-is-right rules you still win yo.

Edit: If the DS sorc is holding lightning the damage reduced jumps astronomicly as well. Worth noting because this is a common setup used to tank bad bad rooms similar to your theorycraft room in 18 and 26 :) Too lazy to run the numbers on phone but with a +bulk guard stance personal skill support we can hit double digit damage reduction multipliers ez bby.

Edited November 23, 2017 by joshcja

[Shadow Mir]

10 minutes ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

You are moving the goalposts to deny the fact that you are dead wrong about this topic. Regardless of whether or not that situation is realistic (which it is, by the way), the point was that with guard stance your survivability increases by an insane amount. However, you chose to ignore this because you knew that Alastor's math was correct.

Let me pose a question to you: Have you ever tried in earnest to use guard stance? Have you ever considered it? How about a Berserker?

I'm willing to bet you haven't. I'm willing to bet that you just look at how things appear at first glance, decide they are good or bad, and go with those assumptions until you are either proven wrong by the game or until the end of time, whichever comes first.

Well, even if the math was admittedly correct, you'd have to be blind as a Zubat to not notice the obvious problem. Seriously, who would throw a unit into a horde of enemies like that with no backup? And who the hell are you to make the call about that situation being realistic, huh!?

[De Geso]

7 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, even if the math was admittedly correct, you'd have to be blind as a Zubat to not notice the obvious problem. Seriously, who would throw a unit into a horde of enemies like that with no backup? And who the hell are you to make the call about that situation being realistic, huh!?

That isn't the point of his post. It just isn't. Don't change the subject when you are wrong.

The situation is realistic because have you ever played Fire Emblem? Several entries in the series require enemy-phase tanking huge numbers.

[Alastor15243]

Let’s get back on topic:

Really the important thing is making sure you take advantage of the avatar’s abilities to make a frontline unit that can kill and not be killed by whatever crosses its path.

You should also consider what to do with their partner. Normally the avatar’s spouse would be a pair-up bot so you generally don’t want to marry other frontliner material, but the option remains of using them to give an exotic and useful class to one of your units and have the avatar use one of the servants as their pair up bot.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Alastor15243

[joshcja]

10 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Let’s get back on topic:

Really the important thing is making sure you take advantage of the avatar’s abilities to make a frontline unit that can kill and not be killed by whatever crosses its path.

You should also consider what to do with their partner. Normally the avatar’s spouse woupd be a pair-up bot so you generally don’t want to marry other frontliner material, but the option remains of using them to give an exotic and useful class to one of your units and have the avatar use one of the servants as their pair up bot.

Also Jakob+Dwyer strats are all-the-thing.

[Shadow Mir]

55 minutes ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

That isn't the point of his post. It just isn't. Don't change the subject when you are wrong.

The situation is realistic because have you ever played Fire Emblem? Several entries in the series require enemy-phase tanking huge numbers.

Granted, some entries require taking on large numbers of enemies during the enemy phase, but most of the games where I could get away with sending one unit to annihilate a whole battalion happened to be the ones with weak enemies. This is one of the games where I'd get punished for trying something like that unless my unit happened to outclass the enemy in a big way.

As for your earlier question, the only game I actually used a Berserker was Path of Radiance... which happens to be on the easier end of the Fire Emblem spectrum (I'll also note that said unit comes rather late in the game). Given my paranoia about crit chances, as well as Fates being Fates, I don't think I'd come around to thinking Berserkers aren't that bad after all, especially with Arthur and Charlotte having obvious baggage that drags them down... But I digress.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Alastor15243]

2 hours ago, joshcja said:

Also Jakob+Dwyer strats are all-the-thing.

You’ve piqued my curiosity; what exactly do you mean here? And I’m guessing the OP doesn’t know either.

[joshcja]

46 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

You’ve piqued my curiosity; what exactly do you mean here? And I’m guessing the OP doesn’t know either.

Standard, boring marrige is pretty much always JakobxCorn my dude.

Jakob gets Jakob exp and can marry Corn before ch9 for arbitrarily high stack. Dwyer comes early with impossibly good skillsets off this and gives the coveted +mag statue regardless of his actual build. Shenanigans ensue.

Marrige happens fast enough that you can just build up Sorc/Zerk tier pairup adds and A+ reclass options on Jakob and Corn before second shop rolls around.

Drawback: Missclicking to facetouch Jakob instead of waifu. None of these are super endgame EP units in CQ (Ok some Dwyers are).

Pro's: Stompy Stomp.

Edited November 23, 2017 by joshcja

[Alastor15243]

4 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Standard, boring marrige is pretty much always JakobxCorn my dude.

Jakob gets Jakob exp and can marry Corn before ch9 for arbitrarily high stack. Dwyer comes early with impossibly good skillsets off this and gives the coveted +mag statue regardless of his actual build. Shenanigans ensue.

Marrige happens fast enough that you can just build up Sorc/Zerk tier pairup adds and A+ reclass options on Jakob and Corn before second shop rolls around.

Drawback: Missclicking to facetouch Jakob instead of waifu.

Dwyer can be good? I’ve never managed to make him anything but trash even with fucking Camilla as a mother.

[joshcja]

11 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Dwyer can be good? I’ve never managed to make him anything but trash even with fucking Camilla as a mother.

Gold standard is wyvern!Corn. Dwyer starts life with str+2/Trample/Elbow room on this setup and has the magic for bolt weaponry alongside empty A+/S supports to buff up his mid-endgame survivability. It's hard to be bad when you start life with +10 flat damage yo.

Dwyer's easily the second best maingame kid in fates after our dark goddess and bloody prophet Ophelia Dusk.

Edited November 23, 2017 by joshcja

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:49 AM, Alastor15243 said:

Dwyer can be good? I’ve never managed to make him anything but trash even with fucking Camilla as a mother.

 

 

He's easilly one of the best children(i'd say best but @joshcja would mention Ophelia which i never used) just because of being Jakob Child = being able to get x/15 skills before anyone even promotes. Kana technically is second best because of this(or the best because Sword Rank) but since he's not guaranteed to be Jakob/Felicia parented she's less consistent than Dwyer

Edited November 24, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[joshcja]

5 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

 

 

He's easilly one of the best children(i'd say best but @joshcja would mention Ophelia which i never used) just because of being Jakob Child = being able to get x/15 skills before anyone even promotes. Kana technically is second best because of this(or the best because Sword Rank) but since he's not guaranteed to be Jakob/Felicia parented she's less consistent than Dwyer

Gonna disagree on CQ route. Even Megakana is middle of the pack there.

Properly built Percy, Nina, Soliel and, Sophie are all pretty much gaurenteed to outclass Kana at join or shortly after. The higher innate stack on Kana's side (+7-14) is outweighed by comperable or higher damage and significantly higher stats and utility accrost the board.

(Dwyers been discussed and Ophy is more of a cheat code than a unit somI'm ignoring them.)

BR/Rev Kana is really solid though. I'll back a third best kid claim there after Dwyer and Sophie. Middle of the pack isn't even bad in CQ as a freebie alongside Jakob!Dwyer.

Note: Kana can give the coveted +str/mag statue so I can no longer claim it's outright bad in suboptimal builds.

Edited November 24, 2017 by joshcja