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Damage formulae, weapon skill effects, personal skill effects


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I've been doing a bunch of research over on GFaqs on the details mentioned above, and finally feel happy enough with everything to compile it together into a single resource.

 

Note: Most things are approximate. Exact values are annoying to find in a game that only gives you bars to measure and not concrete numbers most of the time. There's also possibly some underlying mechanics affecting damage slightly that are not entirely known, for example we've seen some odd deviations from expected numbers with crits and specials, especially when other skills are factored in.

 

Damage Dealt = (Atk + Weapon mt) x (Sum of damage bonuses) / (Enemy Def/Res)

 

Atk = whichever attack stat your current weapon uses. For swords, lances, axes and bows, it's Strength. For Tomes, it's Magic. For Tiki, it's some combination, we don't really know exactly. For topsy-turvy weapons, switch Atk stat.

For specials, use (Atk + Skl) / 2 in place of the normal attack stat. For criticals, we don't know exactly, but it seems to be somewhere around (Atk + 2 x Skl) / 3 to (Atk + 3 x Skl) / 4 in place of the normal attack stat. For dual specials, no testing has been done yet to the best of my knowledge.

Weapon mt = your weapons attack value.

Sum of damage bonuses = Includes weapon skills, personal skills and weapon triangle advantage. Will be listed below. All things that go into this category get added together to create one single multiplier.

Enemy Def/Res = some amount depending on the enemy. Basically the same as for your Atk. Note that for topsy-turvy weapons, switch which of Def/Res is used (e.g. topsy turvy swords would hit Res)

It's not known exactly where effective damage factors in here, might be in the sum of damage bonuses section, but we do know effective damage is a very large amount, typically multiplying damage dealt by approximately 20.

 

Damage Taken = Enemy base Atk / [ (1 + Sum of defence bonuses) x Your Def/Res x Weapon Triangle disadvantage] x Effective damage

 

Enemy base Atk = some amount depending on the enemy. Typically a very large number, usually in the thousands for mid-high level enemies.

Sum of defence bonuses = Includes defensive crests, personal skills like Aegis and Dracoshield. Similar to the attack bonuses list, everything that goes in here gets added together to create one single defensive multiplier. See list below.

Your Def/Res = If you need me to explain what this is, then this thread is probably too advanced for you.

Weapon Triangle disadvantage = 1.25 if you have weapon triangle disadvantage against the enemy, otherwise 1.

Effective damage = ~20 if the enemy has an effective weapon against you, otherwise 1. It's not known exactly how this works or what the increased damage depends on though.

 

Personal Skills

Luna - Appears to reduce enemy Defence/Resistance by 1% for every 4 points of Luck. Some people have been confused by the description and think the skill has a chance to activate, and then lowers enemy Def/Res for a certain time or for that attack. This is not the case. Luna causes the enemy Def/Res to be treated as a lower value while calculating damage. Here are some values to give an idea of how effective Luna is:

25 Luck: 6.7% extra damage

50 Luck: 14.3% extra damage

75 Luck: 23.1% extra damage

100 Luck: 33.3% extra damage

125 Luck: 45.5% extra damage

146 Luck: 57.5% extra damage (Level 99 Anna with Luck+20)

Also note that because Luna is not a standard damage boost skill, it doesn't add to everything else. Rather, it multiplies all of your other boosts. When you also consider how massive the increase it gives is, it should be clear it's an absurdly powerful skill.

 

Pavise - Appears to give a 0.33% increase to your defence bonuses per point of Luck, when facing the relevant weapons. As with Luna, it is always active, its effect just becomes larger as you have more luck.

Sol - Still only lightly tested but appears the healing amount is proportional to your luck and enemy HP.

Solidarity - +25% to your damage bonuses. Only affects the vanguard, and only when the support has the skill.

Awakening - Currently untested

Aegis - Strictly speaking untested, but almost certainly the same formula as Pavise.

Trample - +10% to your damage bonuses

Dracoshield - +20% to your defence bonuses

Paragon - 2x EXP gain

Payday - +1% gold earned per point of Luck.

 

Weapon Skills are actually fairly straight forward for the most part.

 

Boost skills (Pair Up+, Health+, Critical+, Awakening+, Warrior+, Desperate+): +25% to your damage bonuses when active.

Strength skills (Strength I-VI plus Rainstorm): +25% to your damage bonuses when using the relevant attack(s).

Bonus skills (Slayers): -20% weapon might when at least one is equipped on a weapon (the mt will appear in read). Ignore this for weapons with True Power unlocked.

Topsy-Turvy: Description is just really really bad. It basically works like a magic weapon in main FE games,. A topsy-turvy bow will use your MAG stat for damage against the enemy Res, for instance. Healing amount is not affected for staff users, they still heal based on magic.

 

Misc formulae and stuff

 

Healing amount:

Potion: 50 HP + Remedy boost

Concoction: 150 HP + Remedy boost

Elixir: 500 HP + Remedy boost 

Staves/Rods: Same as above at equal tier, plus Mag / 2. E.g. Sun Festal heals 150 + Mag / 2 HP.

Remedy boost: 10 HP for Remedy I, 20 HP for Remedy II and 50 HP for Remedy III

 

Damage Rank

100% damage taken = sum of all deployed playable character's HP stats (only playable count, NPC deployed do not).

So to get an S rank for damage you need to take less than 80% of the sum of all deployed playable character's Health. This is why the damage rank usually only feels relevant when you have 1-2 characters deployed, because basically you're only allowed to take half or a quarter as much damage as normal on those missions.

 

Spd & Awakening duration: Has not been fully tested, but it appears that roughly 10 Spd = 1 second of Awakening. The impact of crests is not known.

 

Credits/Thanks

I didn't do this all on my own. I've been posting these over at GFaqs a lot as I've been researching and refining, and a ton of people helped along the way.

Folt: Helped with testing a few things, especially relating to specials and criticals, provided several suggestions on various things along the way that might not be right and/or might be worth testing.

NuCoEm: Always positive and encouraging in the threads. Worked out how healing and Payday work, as well as a few other minor things.

GraphyteR: Provided a massive wad of data on damage taken, probably hours of testing and researching, allowing the damage taken formula to be calcuated.

Technoweirdo: Tested Remedy crests and thus confirmed healing items, and also tested Sol.

 

 

Any questions, corrections, suggestions let me know. Like I mentioned before a lot of stuff here isn't 100% final, definitely correct. I did mostly broad testing rather than deep testing, so the exact specifics aren't always right on.

Edited by Tables
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1 hour ago, Tables said:

Elixir: 500 HP+ (It might be completely full heal, the person testing did not have the max possible HP characters at level 99 to check)

...Be right back.
*Kicks Frederick into a volcano FOR SCIENCE*

Frederick, having Remedy 3, healed himself for 550 HP. Huh, figured Remedy 3 would do more. But yeah, Elixirs are 500 HP.
 

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28 minutes ago, Technoweirdo said:

...Be right back.
*Kicks Frederick into a volcano FOR SCIENCE*

Frederick, having Remedy 3, healed himself for 550 HP. Huh, figured Remedy 3 would do more. But yeah, Elixirs are 500 HP.
 

 

Assuming Remedy 3 is +50 HP when healing, sounds good. That's another one to test, actually, I guess... I suppose Remedy has a relatively bigger effect at lower levels, but personally I just didn't bother getting those crests until a lot later because self healing just isn't that useful (which is also part of why I never tested Sol).

Also please fix your offensive member title. Tables are not for flipping.

 

 

Just now, Arthur97 said:

Thanks for answering the luck issue (mostly). I wanted to know since luck is Lucina's main advantage so now I know mostly what I'm getting with that.

 

Yep, as it turns out, Luck is possibly one of if not the most important stat for very high level characters. Luna is good enough that at high enough level, pretty much everyone wants to use it, even characters like Frederick with their low luck stats. And Luck boosting Luna by such a massive degree makes it a really important offensive stat. If you also run Pavise and/or Aegis, it becomes a fantastic offensive AND defensive stat.

Edited by Tables
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Yeah. If I remember correctly, due to Luna and how it works thanks to Tables figuring it out for us, Luck is essentially the highest-priority stat you want to boost, followed by the stat you're attacking with (Str or Mag), then Skill.

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One thing I forgot to ask, did you mean that if a weapon has true power then it negates the might loss from skills such as wingslayer or do you mean the built in skills like Falchion's dragon killing ability?

Edited by Arthur97
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1 hour ago, Arthur97 said:

One thing I forgot to ask, did you mean that if a weapon has true power then it negates the might loss from skills such as wingslayer or do you mean the built in skills like Falchion's dragon killing ability?

Both.

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1 hour ago, Tables said:

 

Assuming Remedy 3 is +50 HP when healing, sounds good. That's another one to test, actually, I guess... I suppose Remedy has a relatively bigger effect at lower levels, but personally I just didn't bother getting those crests until a lot later because self healing just isn't that useful (which is also part of why I never tested Sol).

Also please fix your offensive member title. Tables are not for flipping.

Okay. (ヘ・_・)ヘ┳━┳
-
Quick Remedy test:
Remedy 1 is a whopping 10 HP. lol
Remedy 2 is double Remedy 1...which is to say 20 HP.

Sol tests using Frederick (42 Lck), Chrom (85), and Anna (126):
Killing a Lv. 6 Archer in Ch. 10 Easy gave 9, 18, and 28 HP to Frederick, Chrom, and Anna respectively.
Oddly enough, killing four additional enemies with Anna gave me 111 HP instead of 112 HP. Maybe I stepped in lava for a second somehow. idk
Killing a Lv. 31 Archer in Ch. 10 Lunatic gave 71 HP to Anna. Didn't bother testing the others.
Killing a Lv. 80 Warrior in the Awakening Anna fight gave 57 to Frederick, 115 HP to Chrom, 171 HP to Anna.

Almost wrote off Sol entirely from the first test and I still question how useful it is in general cases, but I suppose it'd be nice in those healing-restricted maps.

 

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Luck and Skill are both good, while Speed is relatively trashy. Definitely a strange new universe.

1 hour ago, Technoweirdo said:

Sol tests using Frederick (42 Lck), Chrom (85), and Anna (126):
Killing a Lv. 6 Archer in Ch. 10 Easy gave 9, 18, and 28 HP to Frederick, Chrom, and Anna respectively.
Oddly enough, killing four additional enemies with Anna gave me 111 HP instead of 112 HP. Maybe I stepped in lava for a second somehow. idk
Killing a Lv. 31 Archer in Ch. 10 Lunatic gave 71 HP to Anna. Didn't bother testing the others.
Killing a Lv. 80 Warrior in the Awakening Anna fight gave 57 to Frederick, 115 HP to Chrom, 171 HP to Anna.

That sounds an awful lot like Sol is healing the user for (X * Luck)% of the target's max HP (since it's not linear with their level), though without knowing precise HP of the enemies it's hard to be sure. If they're similar to PCs of the same level it's probably somewhere in the 0.25*Luck% to 0.33*Luck% range?

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That's really nice Sol info. I agree that it sounds like it scales with enemy HP as well as your own Luck. As a question since I haven't tested it myself, does Sol seem to always activate? The description for Sol in game does literally say it "May" activate, but I'm wondering if that's just a poor choice of words.

 

Also, if we can use Sol to estimate enemy HP... well, we can also use Topsy Turvy to estimate the relative difference between enemy defences, and making a few assumptions possibly get estimates on how much damage things actually deal, as well as possibly calculate enemy stats. Not sure if it'll work in practice but I guess it's plausible.

 

Edit: That feeling when you go to try and find your thread, but can't see it anywhere, then notice that's because it got pinned. Thanks for the swift action, mods :).

Edited by Tables
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A part of me wants -- no, demands Arthur be in the game now.

11 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Luck and Skill are both good, while Speed is relatively trashy. Definitely a strange new universe.

That sounds an awful lot like Sol is healing the user for (X * Luck)% of the target's max HP (since it's not linear with their level), though without knowing precise HP of the enemies it's hard to be sure. If they're similar to PCs of the same level it's probably somewhere in the 0.25*Luck% to 0.33*Luck% range?

Shadow Dragon arena fight using Anna (126 Lck) armed with Sol:
Lv. 30 Pegasus Knight gives 69 HP.
Lv. 30 Pegasus Knight Caeda gives 66 HP. (Wait, what?)
Lv. 30 Falcoknight gives 85 HP.
Lv. 35 Star Lord Marth gives 113 HP.

Yeah, does seem to scale with target's max HP.

7 hours ago, Tables said:

That's really nice Sol info. I agree that it sounds like it scales with enemy HP as well as your own Luck. As a question since I haven't tested it myself, does Sol seem to always activate? The description for Sol in game does literally say it "May" activate, but I'm wondering if that's just a poor choice of words.

 

Also, if we can use Sol to estimate enemy HP... well, we can also use Topsy Turvy to estimate the relative difference between enemy defences, and making a few assumptions possibly get estimates on how much damage things actually deal, as well as possibly calculate enemy stats. Not sure if it'll work in practice but I guess it's plausible.

Yes, Sol activates on every non-mook kill.

Edit because I hate double-posting:
To answer a question you had on Takumi vs. Anna when both have Luna and +20 Luck...
In my first test attacking a Lv. 8 Myrmidon on Ch. 2 Hard with just one weak attack, they either did the exact same amount of damage or the difference was so minor that it didn't show.
In my second test attacking a Lv. 64 Mage in the Gaiden arena fight with one full-charge Strong I, they still did the exact same amount or the difference was so minor it didn't show.

i.e. Anna can actually keep up with Takumi damage-wise -- provided Takumi never crits or uses musou and Anna doesn't use a second -slayer, but still.

Also, I'm only eyeballing it, but the Awakening skill seems to boost damage by 20% during uh, Awakening compared to when not using the skill during Awakening. Tested by attacking and critting Frederick on Ch. 2 Lunatic w/ and w/o the Awakening skill.

Edited by Technoweirdo
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However Tiki's damage stats are pulled together I'd be willing to bet she's attacking the enemy Res, not Def. Playing with her she is effective against manaketes, monsters, wyverns, knights, and great knights but weak against mages, mounted mages, and pegasus knights. This is despite her Str, for me currently, being higher than Mag and I would think  if it were some kind of (Str+Mag)/2 agaisnt (Def+Res)/2 I would think any character with an excess of one stat but deficient in another would end up a decent average. Yet high Res targets are noticeably harder to kill than high Def targets.

Anyone else notice similar or different results?

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Fun fact: Did you know that you slowly generate musou while at low HP?
Fun fact #2: Did you know that you can't die during Awakening?

1 hour ago, CmdrQuartz said:

However Tiki's damage stats are pulled together I'd be willing to bet she's attacking the enemy Res, not Def. Playing with her she is effective against manaketes, monsters, wyverns, knights, and great knights but weak against mages, mounted mages, and pegasus knights. This is despite her Str, for me currently, being higher than Mag and I would think  if it were some kind of (Str+Mag)/2 agaisnt (Def+Res)/2 I would think any character with an excess of one stat but deficient in another would end up a decent average. Yet high Res targets are noticeably harder to kill than high Def targets.

Anyone else notice similar or different results?

Tiki is...odd.

In the little time I've used Tiki beforehand, I remember quite vividly seeing Tiki struggle to kill another dragon. 
Had her tested at the Lv. 64 Gaiden arena fight. Up against a Lv. 67 Sage and Lv. 65 Fafnir, Tiki would do much more damage to the Sage than Fafnir via crit.
From an awakened musou however, the reverse happened. I found this out by accident. lol

Far as I can tell, Tiki does use both, just not at the same time as it's move-dependent, which means a -lot- more testing'll have to be done on a per-move basis. Might have to check other characters too, which could take a while.

Damnit Tiki, why can't you stay in dragon form forever? orz

Edited by Technoweirdo
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I think Tiki use mag when she's not in dragon mode, but when she is a dragon, she uses strength instead :) 

For the damage to rank s a mission, having playable characters (controlled by ai)  taking damages doesn't seem to affect it, at least for me (or it was just a bug?) 

Edited by Metakirby
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Yeah, damage definitely only counts when you take it.

 

And for Tiki, I observed the same as MetaKirby, although I never tested explicitly. It seems like she mostly uses magic in human form, perhaps entirely uses magic, and mostly physical in dragon form.

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Yeah that's probably it. Perhaps my Tiki hadn't been as well equipped but I felt like I was struggling against a mage class even as the dragon. However a few recent runs have shown that despite having the awakening skill it was taking about as much effort in dragon form to kill a dragon as it did out of dragon form. Not to mention wrecking a Lissa and Caeda both of whom have high Res but lower Def.

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On 11/10/2017 at 1:30 PM, Tables said:

[...]

Damage Dealt = (Atk + Weapon mt) x (Sum of damage bonuses) / (Enemy Def/Res)

[...]

Oh man, I am confused and I have some (really nerdy) questions.  (I realize some of the answers will be pretty much impossible to know without data mining the game, but any information anyone has would be appreciated.)

First of all, does the damage calculation really divide by enemy defenses rather than subtract like other FE games?  That's...very interesting.  If you have a character with (for example) 100 atk, 200 weapon mt, and no damage bonus, versus an enemy with 100 def/res, you're doing 3 damage per hit.  If the enemy only has 50 def/res, you're up to a whopping 6 damage.  This would explain a lot about why it takes so long to kill people when I don't have WTA or other bonuses, actually.  But even with WTA, if we multiply 300 x 1.25 and divide THAT, we're up to 3.75 damage on a hit against 100 def, or 7.5 against 50 def.  I guess that adds up when you're getting a lot of hits in?

Which brings me to my next question: This isn't normal Fire Emblem where each weapon has exactly one kind of attack and the closest things to a "combo" are the Astra and Aether trigger skills.  We have weak attacks, strong attacks, and more combo strings than you can shake a stick at.  Not to mention the AoE attacks and the combo finishers that have multiple hits.  I can't imagine every hit does the same amount of damage, so how does that factor in?  Let's take Takumi as an example (because I can actually remember some of his combo strings off the top of my head). His Y-X combo (Strong II) is just one regular shot and then a big slash, two hits, pretty straightforward, but I imagine this would do much more damage than if you just pressed Y-Y (and then stopped there for some reason).  How is THAT calculated?  Does every attack have a percentage that it multiplies the damage formula by (with the finisher having a larger one), or does it add a flat amount of damage depending on the attack, or something else that I'm not thinking of?  Or am I totally off-base, and does every individual hit do exactly the same amount of damage regardless of the combo?  (This sounds easier to calculate, but also very boring, because you'd have no reason to do anything other than spam either the longest combo string or the one with the least end lag, at least when you're fighting a single target.)

Either way, what about Takumi's Strong V (the one that summons an orb that shoots a bunch of arrows in a triangle pattern)?  That's a combo finisher that has a LOT of hits in it, and I've seen it really chew through enemies.  Is each hit of that finisher calculated separately (in whatever mysterious manner the game is using), or is the whole thing one attack that does a lot of damage, with each hit doing a percentage of the total?

I had some questions about how Luna works as well, but I'll hold off, because they might change once I understand more about how damage calculation works in terms of combos.

Thanks to anyone who actually read through this piece of nerdy brain vomit. ;)

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