FEH balancing issues?

[XRay]

18 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I have certainly seen Raven mages on enemy defence teams

As @MrSmokestack said, Raven mages are pretty weak to anything they do not counter. Triangle Adept on a defense teams helps players more than the AI, since the player can exploit the AI to their advantage.

18 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I only have three unit slots devoted to arena offence, because the fourth will change week-to-week for bonus unit reasons. Running red/blue/green lets you check absolutely every threat, while running red/blue/colourless leaves you vulnerable to blues (et cetera for any other combination of three that isn't red/blue/green). This puts colourless units behind the eightball for general purposes; you need a particularly good one to justify their inclusion as one of your core three.

Running nukes that have more coverage is more important than having perfect color balance in my opinion.

For example, my team runs Reinhardt and BH!Lyn, and they cover everything except Gronnraven mages, and those can be easily walled with my Olivia running Ruby Sword. Switching Reinhardt for another BH!Lyn or BB!Cordelia with Firesweep-Cancel Affinity covers pretty much everyone.

8 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

All you need to tank bows is high defense, that's literally it. (-Raven also works, of course, but high defense is such a catchall counter that if you needed to tank bows you don't actually need to spec for it.)

tl;dr The problem with tanking Reinhardt is that, in order to tank and be able to kill Reinhardt... you're overspecialized to the point of being, frankly, a bad unit outside of that job. Which, yeah, you can live with, but I'd much rather live with a couple Reinhardt checks (like Reinhardt himself) rather than lug Fae around, bearing in mind that if Leo is next to Rein Fae can't even do her one job properly.

There are not a lot of ranged nukes who can tank and counter Brave Bow archers, if there are any, while still being a decent nuke. You can run melee nukes with limited reach or Raven mages with little offensive potential. Like facing against Reinhardt, you might as well run regular ranged nukes to attack the archer first and just not be initiated on.

[!Skydiver]

I wonder how common is Reinhardt using -blade tome on defense teams. At least on my tier (19~20)  I am yet to see one. The reason I guess, is that everybody has Lyn and Mulagir ignores the mage buffs. Also Panic Ploy is a Seal and summoner supports further improves the chances of your being able to turn around that build. It's easier and cheaper to just put him on defense with Dire Thunder / Moonbow/ DB3 / QP Seal and grab easy wins.

In a way, I think that it's good that those units exist as they appeal to the casual crowd with the sense of power, and to the hardcore ones trying to find new ways to counter them.

Right now I'm running Camilla Brave Axe +Death Blow/Guard 3(soon)/ Galeforce + Quickened Pulse alongside Witch Nowi. It's goes as follows Bait Reinhardt, Kill him in next turn, activate Galeforce, kill B!Lyn if she's nearby, get repositioned.

Note that a +0 Camilla with the previous build survives with 3 hp Fully buffed +10 Reihardt +ATK Moonbow/DB3/ QP Seal, and kills in player phase with an Attack Buff or applying a DEF debuff due to Fortify Cavalry.

Against Blade Rein though... Panic Ploy is definitely necessary, he's a monster.
 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

8 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

My bro Virion with deflect magic is now a Reinhardt counter assuming Reinhardt got panic ploy'd

 

holy shit i love Virion now

That's dumb.

@!Skydiver Blade tome Rein needs both Hone Cav and Fortify Cav constantly on him to be good, and the AI can't do it, so no one bothers to set that on defense.

Edited November 14, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[DehNutCase]

14 minutes ago, XRay said:

There are not a lot of ranged nukes who can tank and counter Brave Bow archers, if there are any, while still being a decent nuke. You can run melee nukes with limited reach or Raven mages with little offensive potential. Like facing against Reinhardt, you might as well run regular ranged nukes to attack the archer first and just not be initiated on.

Why does it need to be RANGED tanks who counter Brave Bow archers? We have Ike, we have Ryoma, we have Camus, Xander, and Burger King for free, we even have DC for anyone who cares. Lyn doesn't get countered by them thanks to her B-slot, but not being able to counter bows is a real concern whether you're ranged or melee, due to Firesweep's existence, so you might as well stack more Def so she does 0 damage.

 

The difference between a melee unit with high def and a ranged nuke with high res? (You'd think high res glass cannon ranged units would be good, being bulky on the side that matters, except you can't be bulky to magic while actually being a cannon, magic is everything too strong.) Melee units with DC actually use their defense stat for things other than fighting archers. (Camus has AMAZING matchups with a Brave Lance because he can drop Escutcheon, which +Atk Peri would need to use, for Luna, letting his bulk take care of not dying. Defense is an offensive stat for melee units.)

You... can't do the same to mages, relying on raw bulk to tank, because it doesn't matter if you have like 10 more Res if -blade tomes overkill by like 20 on average.

Edited November 14, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

10 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Double Edit: 'But wait!' you might say, 'what if they don't run these shitty Faes and Julias and Titanias?' Excuse me, good sir, I have a fucking Reinhardt on my team. If you don't run those he just sweeps.

Don't mind my Nino. She's just over here brutally curb-stomping Rein for free Desperation and then murdering the rest of his team.

[DehNutCase]

3 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Don't mind my Nino. She's just over here brutally curb-stomping Rein for free Desperation and then murdering the rest of his team.

Nino has very sketchy survivability vs. built Reins, that's why she's a check and not a counter. Reinhardt checks can be good (Reinhardt checks other Reinhardts), but Reinhardt counters, the ones that have reliable ability to tank and KO him, tend to be very specialized.

[MrSmokestack]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Nino has very sketchy survivability vs. built Reins, that's why she's a check and not a counter. Reinhardt checks can be good (Reinhardt checks other Reinhardts), but Reinhardt counters, the ones that have reliable ability to tank and KO him, tend to be very specialized.

That’s why you run Magic Deflect 3.

[DehNutCase]

Just now, MrSmokestack said:

That’s why you run Magic Deflect 3.

That still leaves her as a check, at least under my definition.

 

A easy way to tell if a unit is a check or a counter is:

Can this unit take 2-4 of the units it counters in a row? If it can't, then it's a check and not a counter.

 

TA-3 Vantage Julia, for example, is a counter to Rein, because you can send tons of him at her and she still wins. Nino, on the other hand, cannot handle 2 Reinhardts in a row. Over multiple turns, with team support, easily, but not alone, not at the same time. (Reinhardts can kill other Reinhardts over multiple turns, with team support---he can even kill one on defense with Deflect magic and QR if he wanted to be a fancy pants.)

 

And Magic Deflect is itself something that's forcing Nino to be more specialized, literally the only unit it's effective on, for Nino, is Reinhardt. Yeah, it's good for the niche of 'killing Mr. Magic,' but it weakens her everywhere else.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

There are not a lot of ranged nukes who can tank and counter Brave Bow archers, if there are any, while still being a decent nuke. You can run melee nukes with limited reach or Raven mages with little offensive potential. Like facing against Reinhardt, you might as well run regular ranged nukes to attack the archer first and just not be initiated on.

Virion and Gordin is the one that comes to mind

EDIT: lol nvm Gordin killscore kinda sucked he need kill weighting to be called a decent nuke

Edited November 14, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

11 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

That still leaves her as a check, at least under my definition.

 

A easy way to tell if a unit is a check or a counter is:

Can this unit take 2-4 of the units it counters in a row? If it can't, then it's a check and not a counter.

 

TA-3 Vantage Julia, for example, is a counter to Rein, because you can send tons of him at her and she still wins. Nino, on the other hand, cannot handle 2 Reinhardts in a row. Over multiple turns, with team support, easily, but not alone, not at the same time. (Reinhardts can kill other Reinhardts over multiple turns, with team support---he can even kill one on defense with Deflect magic and QR if he wanted to be a fancy pants.)

 

And Magic Deflect is itself something that's forcing Nino to be more specialized, literally the only unit it's effective on, for Nino, is Reinhardt. Yeah, it's good for the niche of 'killing Mr. Magic,' but it weakens her everywhere else.

Okay, but realistically, how often is someone going to field 2+ optimal +10 Reins? 99.9999% of the time, Nino will explode the one Rein on the team, get into Desperation and then proceed to run roughshod over all of his buddies who aren't red (and even some who are red, since Rein was nice enough to give her the ability to strike twice against them without retaliation).

[MrSmokestack]

@DehNutCase Never said she was a counter. I know she fits squarely in the “Check” category, but all I said was that her sketch bulk is fixed pretty easily with a single seal.

But running Magic Deflect 3 doesn’t gimp Nino against other enemies. After baiting a Reinhardt and dropping to critical HP, she can simply ORKO his other teammates via Desperation. That helps her performance, on the contrary.

[DehNutCase]

16 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Okay, but realistically, how often is someone going to field 2+ optimal +10 Reins? 99.9999% of the time, Nino will explode the one Rein on the team, get into Desperation and then proceed to run roughshod over all of his buddies who aren't red (and even some who are red, since Rein was nice enough to give her the ability to strike twice against them without retaliation).

If you're going to assume the enemy is incompetent you might as well assume they're not running Reins.

: /

It's not about being good enough most of the time---as I've mentioned, Rein himself can do to other Reins what a Nino can do to them.

 

Rein can: Counter kill other Reins with a deflect magic & QR build. And, after killing that one Reinhardt, he can proceed to do dire thunder things to the rest of the enemy team as normal. =Rein survives opposing +Atk, DB3 Reinhardts easily with a deflect magic seal, and ORKOs back easily with QR and Luna, which the opposing Rein has been thoughtful enough to charge. He gets to keep his DB-3 in his A-slot, and, yeah, he loses Moonbow Pulse combo, but Moonbow Pulse only matters for the first combat, which he just did.

(This is part of why I don't like desperation as a skill, incidentally, brave weapons get it for free, without a hp requirement, without a speed requirement, and, if for some reason you're freakishly fast anyway, you can double again.)

 

Checks are easy, it's counters that are hard, particularly counters that can reliably work even when there's multiple units pressuring the same tile.

Edited November 14, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

27 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

If you're going to assume the enemy is incompetent you might as well assume they're not running Reins.

: /

It's not about being good enough most of the time---as I've mentioned, Rein himself can do do other Reins what a Nino can do to them.

 

Rein can: Counter kill other Reins with a deflect magic & QR build. And, after killing that one Reinhardt, he can proceed to do dire thunder things to the rest of the enemy team as normal. =Rein survives opposing +Atk, DB3 Reinhardts easily with a deflect magic seal, and ORKOs back easily with QR and Luna, which the opposing Rein has been thoughtful enough to charge. He gets to keep his DB-3 in his A-slot, and, yeah, he loses Moonbow Pulse combo, but Moonbow Pulse only matters for the first combat, which he just did.

(This is part of why I don't like desperation as a skill, incidentally, brave weapons get it for free, without a hp requirement, without a speed requirement, and, if for some reason you're freakishly fast anyway, you can double again.)

 

Checks are easy, it's counters that are hard, particularly counters that can reliably work even when there's multiple units pressuring the same tile.

Uh, what? There's a biiiiiiig gap between assuming the enemy is incompetent and running 2-4 +Atk Rein +10s. People can be competent at building defense teams and still just have a single Rein +10 (or even no Rein at all). How many people are seriously going to put the money into acquiring, promoting and merging up 22-44 Reins over, say, their Arena offense core or their waifu/husbando or building a full armour team for reaching #1 in AA? When this is outside every practical scenario, is it even relevant to consider such a match-up?

[Stroud]

At least the introduction of seals made defensive teams like mine more viable. 
But it also depends on what kind of seals we will see  in future, the best seals for now are the defensive ones. I don't know what will happen if something like life and death or Death blow seal will be released, if they dare.

I'm astonished that I still can struggle in tier 20 as a f2p who does not use a OHKO meta, so in this case I say at least there is a chance, even if it is more difficult.
It also depends on the mode. I think the most talk is about arena in here. In Chain Challenges healers are not to bad if a team has some fury users. Maybe we will never get to the point there healers are units who will stay on the same ground as certain units. But with new challenges who make use of their skills their are at least not complete obsolete. 

[DehNutCase]

Just now, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Uh, what? There's a biiiiiiig gap between assuming the enemy is incompetent and running 2-4 +Atk Rein +10s. People can be competent at building defense teams and still just have a single Rein +10 (or even no Rein at all). How many people are seriously going to put the money into acquiring, promoting and merging up 22-44 Reins over, say, their Arena offense core or their waifu/husbando or building a full armour team for reaching #1 in AA? When this is outside every practical scenario, is it even relevant to consider such a match-up?

Why does the defense team need Rein +10? Part of Rein's advantage is that, EVEN with minimal investment, he's a freak of nature that's difficult to check, much less counter. Further, if you're meeting +10 teams at all, don't you think those are people who had their pick of units to get up there in the first place?

Do you honestly think people randomly get 11 copies of 4 different units, is that how you think people get 4 different 5* +10 units?

 

Further, if you're going to argue that, 'beating teams with multiple Reins isn't necessary because it's not a relevant matchup,' then the best strategy is always:

Only use units with high scoring potential, reroll losses until you win 7 times in a row. It's literally the most efficient strategy because you can force yourself above good horse emblem compositions once you only see units with +3 merge or higher (because Camus disappears---a bulky 1-2 range counter-unit allows easier threat range overlap and gives a reliable WoM target) and you stop seeing horse emblem at all at the tip top. (Where it's all armors with +10 merge and Aether).

 

If arena score is all you cared about, Reinahrdt is only a average unit (he has a Prf so he's actually above average even in the arena score department, since he can easily sacrifice his special slot for Aether), because the higher up you go, the less variations are possible (and the units there are, frankly, bad units.)

 

But, even by that standard... Nino isn't good. She's not a unit that gives a lot of arena points. Reinhardt gives more, by virtue of his Prf being higher costed than a -blade tome. (Mind, this is like a C tier unit beating a D tier unit, so this matchup doesn't even matter).

 

Units are either judged by: How good they are at beating teams (particularly teams that are actually difficult to beat) or how good they are getting arena score. Reinhardt is the tip top for the first standard, and it's literally Hectors all the way down by the second. (Yeah, you'll want an Effie and maybe a Draug, but Hector and Amelia are the pair that gives the most score, due to Prf & Trainee).

By neither standard would Nino, for example, score higher than Rein.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

12 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Why does the defense team need Rein +10? Part of Rein's advantage is that, EVEN with minimal investment, he's a freak of nature that's difficult to check, much less counter. Further, if you're meeting +10 teams at all, don't you think those are people who had their pick of units to get up there in the first place?

Do you honestly think people randomly get 11 copies of 4 different units, is that how you think people get 4 different 5* +10 units?

 

Further, if you're going to argue that, 'beating teams with multiple Reins isn't necessary because it's not a relevant matchup,' then the best strategy is always:

Only use units with high scoring potential, reroll losses until you win 7 times in a row. It's literally the most efficient strategy because you can force yourself above good horse emblem compositions once you only see units with +3 merge or higher (because Camus disappears---a bulky 1-2 range counter-unit allows easier threat range overlap and gives a reliable WoM target) and you stop seeing horse emblem at all at the tip top. (Where it's all armors with +10 merge and Aether).

 

If arena score is all you cared about, Reinahrdt is only a average unit (he has a Prf so he's actually above average even in the arena score department, since he can easily sacrifice his special slot for Aether), because the higher up you go, the less variations are possible (and the units there are, frankly, bad units.)

 

But, even by that standard... Nino isn't good. She's not a unit that gives a lot of arena points. Reinhardt gives more, by virtue of his Prf being higher costed than a -blade tome. (Mind, this is like a C tier unit beating a D tier unit, so this matchup doesn't even matter).

 

Units are either judged by: How good they are at beating teams (particularly teams that are actually difficult to beat) or how good they are getting arena score. Reinhardt is the tip top for the first standard, and it's literally Hectors all the way down by the second. (Yeah, you'll want an Effie and maybe a Draug, but Hector and Amelia are the pair that gives the most score, due to Prf & Trainee).

By neither standard would Nino, for example, score higher than Rein.

Rein doesn't need to be +10, but since we're apparently going all out on scary scenarios, I was assuming top power from him and +10 gets him another 4 damage per hit.

I'm not sure what logic you're getting at here. Yes, they had their pick of units, but how many people are going to choose to invest in that many Reins? Even the super rich want to prioritize, so other units will likely get built instead of 3 more Reins.

Again, I'm not sure what logic you're trying to get at here? I said nothing about people randomly getting 11 copies of four units. But most people are going to build a balanced team that can do stuff other than be a meme-tastic example of a defense team.

Er, what? How are we suddenly going from teams with multiple Reins to ignoring all good horse comps at all? Like, 4x Rein is such an incredibly fringe, practically non-existent team compared to Rein + Brave Lyn + Cecilia + Xander/Eldigan/Camus. I seriously don't see any reason to put any weight toward countering the former when the latter is what everyone deploys. Yeah, that one-in-a-million quad Rein might show up to ruin a streak once in a blue moon, but is that really worth ruining my general team comp  that can take on the latter team for? I don't think so.

I'm not even sure what's being argued anymore. I never said anything about score. I'm really scratching my head as to how Nino somehow isn't considered a good unit, though.

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Rein doesn't need to be +10, but since we're apparently going all out on scary scenarios, I was assuming top power from him and +10 gets him another 4 damage per hit.

I'm not sure what logic you're getting at here. Yes, they had their pick of units, but how many people are going to choose to invest in that many Reins? Even the super rich want to prioritize, so other units will likely get built instead of 3 more Reins.

Again, I'm not sure what logic you're trying to get at here? I said nothing about people randomly getting 11 copies of four units. But most people are going to build a balanced team that can do stuff other than be a meme-tastic example of a defense team.

Er, what? How are we suddenly going from teams with multiple Reins to ignoring all good horse comps at all? Like, 4x Rein is such an incredibly fringe, practically non-existent team compared to Rein + Brave Lyn + Cecilia + Xander/Eldigan/Camus. I seriously don't see any reason to put any weight toward countering the former when the latter is what everyone deploys. Yeah, that one-in-a-million quad Rein might show up to ruin a streak once in a blue moon, but is that really worth ruining my general team comp  that can take on the latter team for? I don't think so.

I'm not even sure what's being argued anymore. I never said anything about score. I'm really scratching my head as to how Nino somehow isn't considered a good unit, though.

Nino IS a good unit, it's just that I'm trying to get at your standards, which seemed pretty wonky. Honestly, though, we're probably just misunderstanding each other on something, so we should probably just stop here.

 

(And I apologize if I seemed like an asshole---which I am, mind---but arguing about pointless things is the whole point of being on this forum, at least for me.)

[XRay]

10 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Why does it need to be RANGED tanks who counter Brave Bow archers? We have Ike, we have Ryoma, we have Camus, Xander, and Burger King for free, we even have DC for anyone who cares. Lyn doesn't get countered by them thanks to her B-slot, but not being able to counter bows is a real concern whether you're ranged or melee, due to Firesweep's existence, so you might as well stack more Def so she does 0 damage.

 

The difference between a melee unit with high def and a ranged nuke with high res? Melee units with DC actually use their defense stat for things other than fighting archers. (Camus has AMAZING matchups with a Brave Lance because he can drop Escutcheon, which Peri would need ot use, for Luna, letting his bulk take care of not dying.) Melees... can't do the same to mages because it doesn't matter if you have like 10 more BST on average if -blade tomes overkill by like 20 on average.

Nukes are preferable to tanks in my opinion since they have better match ups and sustainability. Melee nukes like Ayra can tank a hit from most unbuffed Brave Bow archers to activate Desperation; they can keep going without their combat performance dropping too much. Tanks with Quick Riposte have a decent first round performance, but their performance drops quickly after a few rounds of combat. Tanks with Vantage are not very reliable in my opinion since it requires them tank a hit and they need a lot of support to boost their Attack high enough to kill things in one hit; the amount of turns and support required to set up Vantage tanks can be instead used on nukes or Quick Riposte tanks to finish battles sooner.

I do not think a ranged nuke currently exist who can tank Brave Bows as well as melee nukes like Ayra. Ranged nukes are better than melee nukes in my opinion, so I prefer using ranged ones.

9 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Virion and Gordin is the one that comes to mind

EDIT: lol nvm Gordin killscore kinda sucked he need kill weighting to be called a decent nuke

I am not sure if Virion would pass as a decent nuke with so many Brave Bow archers with better nuking performance.

Edited November 15, 2017 by XRay

[DehNutCase]

26 minutes ago, XRay said:

I do not think a ranged nuke currently exist who can tank Brave Bows as well as melee nukes like Ayra. Ranged nukes are better than melee nukes in my opinion, so I prefer using ranged ones.

Rein's Bulk, 38/27

Ayra's bulk: 41/31

Rein's bulk after Fort Cav or Distant Defense 3: 38/33

Reinhardt is min-maxed to the moon and back, dude.

 

If there's a fort buff's worth of difference, Rein is literally tankier than Ayra versus Brave Bows. The problem with melee units is that ranged are better at actually hitting things to death, thanks to their reach, and they're not squishy enough in comparison for the higher BST on melees to matter.

 

The only archers that survive -blade Rein's counter is Mulgir B!Lyn and Firesweep users, for obvious reasons, but neither of those is a brave bow.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by DehNutCase

[XRay]

18 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Rein's Bulk, 38/27

Ayra's bulk: 41/31

Rein's bulk after Fort Cav or Distant Defense 3: 38/33

Reinhardt is min-maxed to the moon and back, dude.

If there's a fort buff's worth of difference, Rein is literally tankier than Ayra versus Brave Bows. The problem with melee units is that ranged at better at actually hitting things to death, thanks to their reach, and they're not squishy enough in comparison for the higher BST on melees to matter.

The only archer that survives -blade Rein's counter is Mulgir B!Lyn and Firesweep users, for obvious reasons, but neither of those is a brave bow.

I guess I am wrong and a ranged nuke does exist for that, but I am not sure if anyone would give Reinhardt that set up. The beauty of normal Reinhardt is that he needs no support to be amazing. Blárblade Reinhardt may have a higher performance ceiling if set up properly, but it demands constant support to operate well. I personally do not think the higher performance ceiling justifies the extra cost in giving him constant support.

[DehNutCase]

6 minutes ago, XRay said:

I guess I am wrong and a ranged nuke does exist for that, but I am not sure if anyone would give Reinhardt that set up. The beauty of normal Reinhardt is that he needs no support to be amazing. Blárblade Reinhardt may have a higher performance ceiling if set up properly, but it demands constant support to operate well. I personally do not think the higher performance ceiling justifies the extra cost in giving him constant support.

That's fair.

(Honestly I'd have trouble fitting 3 horses into an offense team outside bonus horse season as well---Dancers are just as good at generating extra mobility for the team as being cavalry, and even have extra buffing utility from Axe!Azura and their B-slot now. 3 horses + bonus makes the bonus unit even more dead weight than usual, because the bonus doesn't get dancer or buff support.)

 

It's kind of ironic that the reason Rein's -blade build isn't run is because the guy starts crazy good to begin with, so spending extra effort to top him out doesn't feel worth it.

[Ice Dragon]

24 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

It's kind of ironic that the reason Rein's -blade build isn't run is because the guy starts crazy good to begin with, so spending extra effort to top him out doesn't feel worth it.

It's not surprising that given the options of:

1. Use Blarblade+ to bring a 5/10 to a 9.5/10, or
2. Use Blarblade+ and Close Counter to bring an 11/10 to a 12/10,

the first option is almost universally chosen.

[DehNutCase]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

It's not surprising that given the options of:

1. Use Blarblade+ to bring a 5/10 to a 9.5/10, or
2. Use Blarblade+ and Close Counter to bring an 11/10 to a 12/10,

the first option is almost universally chosen.

I mean, you'd think FE players would get the idea of dumping resources into the character that's already overpowered (Carmilla, PoR Titania, RD Haar) rather than the trainees you have to grind up.

It's why I've taken off my summoner support on Cordelia and put it on Axe!Azura instead. Yeah, Azura isn't going to use it at all, probably, but Azura's going to be on every single damn team I make, PvE or PvP, kind of like how Titania and Harr would be responsible for like 40-50% of all kills in a given play through.

 

I said, while not actually planning to give -blade to Reinhardt anytime soon.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

7 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I mean, you'd think FE players would get the idea of dumping resources into the character that's already overpowered (Carmilla, PoR Titania, RD Haar) rather than the trainees you have to grind up.

It's why I've taken off my summoner support on Cordelia and put it on Axe!Azura instead. Yeah, Azura isn't going to use it at all, probably, but Azura's going to be on every single damn team I make, PvE or PvP, kind of like how Titania and Harr would be responsible for like 40-50% of all kills in a given play through.

 

I said, while not actually planning to give -blade to Reinhardt anytime soon.

overkill investment is an exception though

In a game where the trainees is actually good, you do invest on the trainees. Heck didn't PoR have Marcia?

[DehNutCase]

6 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

overkill investment is an exception though

In a game where the trainees is actually good, you do invest on the trainees. Heck didn't PoR have Marcia?

PoR also had a broken ass bonus exp system. And I don't think Marcia even started bad. (I just started a new run recently, and my Ike was so gimped STR-wise that Marcia had more of Str AND Spd... when Ike was level 18 and she was 12. I'm currently on the Astrid recruitment map where everyone 2RKOs her and like 5 different units start in range to attack her. lul.)

 

And there's really no way to overkill investment when you can only bring 4 units into a map. Assault is a different issue, but they're tuned so that 3 and 4*s with investment can clear them, much less 5*s with even the most minimal (talking less than 10k feathers here) skill investment.

Edit: By trainees I'm not referring to trainee units with bonus BST, I mean units with high feather cost investment to get going. Investment's probably better measured in feathers rather than levels for FEH.

Edited November 15, 2017 by DehNutCase