Conquest Lunatic: First Time Through

[De Geso]

9 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

It's not my fault that I thought he was a BS artist from the very beginning, you know... I mean, hyping up Berserker Arthur when Arthur is already "most likely to wind up in a body bag because a grunt got a crit in", and one of the worst Nohrian units as well??? I'm sorry, but that's enough for me to have EXTREME doubts about your credibility. That also suggests a failure to grasp that not all instruments of war are created equal (to put it into perspective, why the fuck do you see a lot of complaints about status staves??? The answer is simple: They're incredibly annoying to deal with, and when you get them they're incredibly niche, if they're even useful at all, which they often aren't. Critical hits are another thing that's incredibly lopsided in terms of usefulness - like I've said in other threads, they're generally not much help when you get them, but if you wind up on the receiving end of a critical hit, you probably have to restart because you lost a unit; incidentally, this is why I think Berserkers are MUCH better as an enemy class than they are as a player class in Fates).

Chill. I wasn't arguing with you in any way. I don't really care about whether you guys disagree with each other. I just don't think you guys need to be at each other's throats so much.

[joshcja]

8 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

DSFE Staves are ridiculous but they aren't really status staves

 

Or is it? All i remember is had DSFE did not degenerate into Warp vs warp it would become Ultimate Fortify vs Fortify, fate of two Fortify

Fair. I just remember deploying All The Stavebots ft Reloadthestaves girl in 12.

On another note what's the Dwyer build that makes him stronger than a fully optimized Murderphelia?

LevanEdit: I am not having the "zerks can be crit!" argument/derail again. No. Bad. Shame on you. Rolled up newspaper. Squirty bottle.

Edited November 15, 2017 by joshcja

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, joshcja said:

Fair. I just remember deploying All The Stavebots ft Reloadthestaves girl in 12.

On another note what's the Dwyer build that makes him stronger than a fully optimized Murderphelia?

LevanEdit: I am not having the "zerks can be crit!" argument/derail again. No. Bad. Shame on you. Rolled up newspaper. Squirty bottle.

I actually forgot about Ophelia, because the build is really just LnD Vantage but Jakob allows it at like ch 12-13

Edited November 15, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, joshcja said:

Fair. I just remember deploying All The Stavebots ft Reloadthestaves girl in 12.

On another note what's the Dwyer build that makes him stronger than a fully optimized Murderphelia?

LevanEdit: I am not having the "zerks can be crit!" argument/derail again. No. Bad. Shame on you. Rolled up newspaper. Squirty bottle.

You should be the one ashamed of yourself, not me. Not that you're capable of grasping that. . .

Edited November 15, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Agro]

I think Freeze is extremely useful. Any time you have a huge mob of enemies that would collectively kill your one thank you can freeze one (Chapter 13 Orochi comes to mind) and not have to worry about it.

I also think Wyvern Elise is pretty good. Combat unpromoted is quite ordinary but she has flier utility which is pretty great in the earlygame. If you get the strats right you won't really miss her healing much

[Shadow Mir]

16 minutes ago, Agro said:

I think Freeze is extremely useful. Any time you have a huge mob of enemies that would collectively kill your one thank you can freeze one (Chapter 13 Orochi comes to mind) and not have to worry about it.

I also think Wyvern Elise is pretty good. Combat unpromoted is quite ordinary but she has flier utility which is pretty great in the earlygame. If you get the strats right you won't really miss her healing much

You have a point there.

Frankly, I don't see the appeal of Wyvern Elise. At all. Her strength growth is likely going nowhere fast, which means she's pretty much useless until C rank, and even then I'd STILL doubt I didn't make a foolish move... If I really wanted to reclass a healer into a combat unit, I'd be a hell of a lot better served by the other little sister heroine.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[ruruo]

18 minutes ago, Agro said:

I think Freeze is extremely useful. Any time you have a huge mob of enemies that would collectively kill your one thank you can freeze one (Chapter 13 Orochi comes to mind) and not have to worry about it.

I also think Wyvern Elise is pretty good. Combat unpromoted is quite ordinary but she has flier utility which is pretty great in the earlygame. If you get the strats right you won't really miss her healing much

Seconded on Freeze being handy. It's also great for giving -20 advo which is quite useful for some bosses, even if they don't move (one that comes to mind is Kotaro) and also Enfeeble is great for turning them into sitting ducks. I like to play around with those two because sometimes I don't like risking RNG screwing up on a boss fight after beating most of a map and needing to restart. 

[joshcja]

 

4 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I actually forgot about Ophelia, because the build is really just LnD Vantage but Jakob allows it at like ch 12-13

Gonna say this is bad. Not based any sane or reasonable platform, seems viable enough. Dwyer is just 100% less waifu in my lifeu x.x

(Assuming he goes Sorc off Ophelia and Magik off Percy?)

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, joshcja said:

 

Gonna say this is bad. Not based any sane or reasonable platform, seems viable enough. Dwyer is just 100% less waifu in my lifeu x.x

(Assuming he goes Sorc off Ophelia and Magik off Percy?)

When i first did it i just went GK arm scrolled then roll a forged hand axe so idk. Thats already 3 skillslot used anyway

[Agro]

13 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Frankly, I don't see the appeal of Wyvern Elise. At all. Her strength growth is likely going nowhere fast, which means she's pretty much useless until C rank, and even then I'd STILL doubt I didn't make a foolish move... If I really wanted to reclass a healer into a combat unit, I'd be a hell of a lot better served by the other little sister heroine.

Even without forges (which I still think are valid arguments, within reason) Elise has a base Str of 2. Wyvern Rider's is 6 and then she learns Str+2 on her first level.  This would make her Str 10. Giving her a Str tonic then boosts this to 12. Arthur has 13 Str at base as a Fighter, by the way, so she's not doing terribly. Her high movement and flying ability is enough to allow her to get in to some good Attack Stance formations and her hit rate is about on-par with Iron Axe!Arthur.  I'd suggest giving it a go if you haven't already... I had my doubts initially but it really is useful having another flying unit that early. She will need to chip a bit to get some kills but most of the utility comes from her personal skill and Demoiselle which is slightly more usable now that she's an attacker. Of course she may then promote and proceed to kick ass with Bolt Axe/Fire Tome as needed.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, Agro said:

Even without forges (which I still think are valid arguments, within reason) Elise has a base Str of 2. Wyvern Rider's is 6 and then she learns Str+2 on her first level.  This would make her Str 10. Giving her a Str tonic then boosts this to 12. Arthur has 13 Str at base as a Fighter, by the way, so she's not doing terribly. Her high movement and flying ability is enough to allow her to get in to some good Attack Stance formations and her hit rate is about on-par with Iron Axe!Arthur.  I'd suggest giving it a go if you haven't already... I had my doubts initially but it really is useful having another flying unit that early. She will need to chip a bit to get some kills but most of the utility comes from her personal skill and Demoiselle which is slightly more usable now that she's an attacker. Of course she may then promote and proceed to kick ass with Bolt Axe/Fire Tome as needed.

The best part is the part where she is also not Arthur and had Arthur support (Quick). Anyone with Arthur slapped on them is basically godly as far as offense goes

Its only 6 chapter between that and Bolt Axe too

Edited November 16, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, Agro said:

Even without forges (which I still think are valid arguments, within reason) Elise has a base Str of 2. Wyvern Rider's is 6 and then she learns Str+2 on her first level.  This would make her Str 10. Giving her a Str tonic then boosts this to 12. Arthur has 13 Str at base as a Fighter, by the way, so she's not doing terribly. Her high movement and flying ability is enough to allow her to get in to some good Attack Stance formations and her hit rate is about on-par with Iron Axe!Arthur.  I'd suggest giving it a go if you haven't already... I had my doubts initially but it really is useful having another flying unit that early. She will need to chip a bit to get some kills but most of the utility comes from her personal skill and Demoiselle which is slightly more usable now that she's an attacker. Of course she may then promote and proceed to kick ass with Bolt Axe/Fire Tome as needed.

If I need that much to make it work... I'd see a big problem with needing that much, is all I'll say. Seriously, forging in a game where you only get one resource, need duplicates of the weapon to forge, AND need luck to get anything other than the one resource point in your castle...??? Hell no. And this is ignoring that there's better uses for those precious Heart Seals.

Quote

The best part is the part where she is also not Arthur and had Arthur support (Quick). Anyone with Arthur slapped on them is basically godly as far as offense goes

Its only 6 chapter between that and Bolt Axe too

You mean the same Arthur who's busy licking the dust off the bench? THAT Arthur?? Because that's the only thing he's good for, far as I'm concerned.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Agro]

Sorry, I don't really see where the extra investment is aside from the initial Heart Seal. Everything else she learns/gains on her own and the Attack Stances should form as a natural result of good strategy and unit placement... and EVERYONE in early Conquest needs good Attack Stancing to be used properly except Camilla. All I was saying is that Wyvern makes her (pre-learned!) skills even more useful.

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, Agro said:

Sorry, I don't really see where the extra investment is aside from the initial Heart Seal. Everything else she learns/gains on her own and the Attack Stances should form as a natural result of good strategy and unit placement... and EVERYONE in early Conquest needs good Attack Stancing to be used properly except Camilla. All I was saying is that Wyvern makes her (pre-learned!) skills even more useful.

You mean the same Heart Seal that has better uses, like (le gaspe) Wyvern Lord Camilla? I mean, while Wyvern Elise might not be a steaming pile of guano after hitting C rank, she's dependent on an inaccurate weapon to get *bleep* done, and her Skill issues only make things even worse. On top of this, I frankly think more mobility for Demoiselle to with with means little because Corrin and Xander are the only male units worth a damn.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 11/14/2017 at 11:43 PM, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Childhood Seals isn't worth it, since from my experience they hurt your progression on that character. The one time i would say its semi worth it, was to make 3 Rally Percy but its dubious because Rally STR is plenty most of the time before Rallyman. One use you can make off late paralogue is to top up your EXP to reach x/15 earlier

Like you get that many seals? Prior to C20 you're getting like 5 Heart Seals. Not that many. Partner and Friendship Seals exist too in similar quantities, but they take time to be able to use barring online support grinding. Those Heart Seals have plenty of competition. You could buy more Hearts and such online- but would that be cheating?

Childhood Seals are worth it, save the children who are difficult to save (like Ignatius and Shiro) and those who you might want the chapter rewards from early, such as Ophelia, and Percy if you want the gold. You miss nothing saving Shigure for later, and little from saving Midori or Soleil. I like late recruiting to fill in open unit slots with practical prepromotes I never had to feed a drop of EXP to.

As for Rally Strength, you need a level 5 Berserker for that. I don't recall any Berserker Capture fodder being available for most of CQ (barring Paralogue use). So instead you have to get someone to a level 5 Berserker- Arthur and Charlotte need some time to attain that. Defense Rally is plentiful on the player side, and I can easily see Capturing a Falco for Speed Rally, and Izana exists for Magic Rally.

 

I rarely see real consensus on what is good and bad in Conquest, compared to other FEs. I mean some stuff like Camilla top/high and Charlotte on the lower end can be agreed on, but the rest is much in flux.

With this stated, I'm just going to pull of this. It's a little toxic.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Like you get that many seals? Prior to C20 you're getting like 5 Heart Seals. Not that many. Partner and Friendship Seals exist too in similar quantities, but they take time to be able to use barring online support grinding. Those Heart Seals have plenty of competition. You could buy more Hearts and such online- but would that be cheating?

Childhood Seals are worth it, save the children who are difficult to save (like Ignatius and Shiro) and those who you might want the chapter rewards from early, such as Ophelia, and Percy if you want the gold. You miss nothing saving Shigure for later, and little from saving Midori or Soleil. I like late recruiting to fill in open unit slots with practical prepromotes I never had to feed a drop of EXP to.

As for Rally Strength, you need a level 5 Berserker for that. I don't recall any Berserker Capture fodder being available for most of CQ (barring Paralogue use). So instead you have to get someone to a level 5 Berserker- Arthur and Charlotte need some time to attain that. Defense Rally is plentiful on the player side, and I can easily see Capturing a Falco for Speed Rally, and Izana exists for Magic Rally.

 

I rarely see real consensus on what is good and bad in Conquest, compared to other FEs. I mean some stuff like Camilla top/high and Charlotte on the lower end can be agreed on, but the rest is much in flux.

With this stated, I'm just going to pull of this. It's a little toxic.

Lemme quote one by one lol just to make it easy to adress it

 

>Like you get that many seals? Prior to C20 you're getting like 5 Heart Seals. Not that many. Partner and Friendship Seals exist too in similar quantities, but they take time to be able to use barring online support grinding. Those Heart Seals have plenty of competition. You could buy more Hearts and such online- but would that be cheating?

 

You get 2 Heart Seals from Haitaka and Shop, and 5 from ch14 version of Seal Shop. When you consider that theres around.... 5 character? who would benefit from reclassing to begin with, its actually fairly plenty

 

>Childhood Seals are worth it, save the children who are difficult to save (like Ignatius and Shiro) and those who you might want the chapter rewards from early, such as Ophelia, and Percy if you want the gold. You miss nothing saving Shigure for later, and little from saving Midori or Soleil. I like late recruiting to fill in open unit slots with practical prepromotes I never had to feed a drop of EXP to.

 

What i meant in that post is along the lines of "what children would get benefit from the Children Seals"more than anything else. Ophelia and Percy is good regardless(Oph depending on her level of customizaton) so in a sense they didn't really gain much from getting dropsacked while i'd say many other childs would get better when recruited early.  As for those like Ignatius, its less that "don't use Children Seals on them" and more "this shit ain't usable without Children Seals lmao" so i don't consider that as the seals being worth it, and more "the seals is part of the character" so to speak.

To reword it in a more exact form, when i said Children Seals are not worth it i meant it in a sense that you shouldn't deliberately use it for the sake of using it

As for Zerker that comes from my tendency to assume L5 Arthur which comes from him being prime pair up fodder. I guess 5 Arthur from instanly Promo should be easy? I concede this one though

Edited November 16, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[joshcja]

 

Mythbusting: First use of non-heart seals kicks in on ch9. There are more seals than you will ever need. Only Elise and (Some) Corrins really want the ch7 seal. Only Mozu, Dwyer, and (Delayed seal wanty) Corrin want the ch9 seal. There is not a huge pool of units for the ch7-9 seals, there are 2-4 units competing for 2 seals. All of whom have viable not-first-seal routes to their ideal final build(s).

For clarity: You take Percy early because he's almost always mothered by Effie and you want to drop that hot garbage asap for DracoPit. You take Ophelia early for her loot even if you're self banning the best unit in the game. You take viable Dwyers early for cav growths, his inventory/loot, and because early high-stack is his niche. You take Sophie early to fill out your roster, swim in Exp, and to snag another copy of the good early seal+Edrop.
 

Dwyer/Some Sophie's/Ophelia all really want to build percy support early as well.

Edited November 16, 2017 by joshcja

[Mandokarla]

So I got Murderphelia. She got Vantage from Odin, I'm gonna get her Vengeance from Sorc and then make her a Witch. Why? Because Takumi's wall. Me skipping half of that map quickly requires Warp abuse, and I will fucking use it. Elise is her mom, so she's busted now. 

I HS Keaton into Berserker, and I'm gonna pair him with Camilla (who I will HS into Wyvern Lord), with the plan being a Rally Str and Rally Def velouria. 

1 hour ago, joshcja said:

For clarity: You take Percy early because he's almost always mothered by Effie and you want to drop that hot garbage asap for DracoPit. You take Ophelia early for her loot even if you're self banning the best unit in the game. You take viable Dwyers early for cav growths, his inventory/loot, and because early high-stack is his niche. You take Sophie early to fill out your roster, swim in Exp, and to snag another copy of the good early seal+Edrop.
 

Dwyer/Some Sophie's/Ophelia all really want to build percy support early as well.

Clarify DracoPit? I'm not up to date on lingo, clearly.

Why is Percy so good/important? He's always mothered by Effie and I've always found him to be mediocre at best. 

[Shadow Mir]

20 minutes ago, Mandokarla said:

So I got Murderphelia. She got Vantage from Odin, I'm gonna get her Vengeance from Sorc and then make her a Witch. Why? Because Takumi's wall. Me skipping half of that map quickly requires Warp abuse, and I will fucking use it. Elise is her mom, so she's busted now. 

I HS Keaton into Berserker, and I'm gonna pair him with Camilla (who I will HS into Wyvern Lord), with the plan being a Rally Str and Rally Def velouria. 

Clarify DracoPit? I'm not up to date on lingo, clearly.

Why is Percy so good/important? He's always mothered by Effie and I've always found him to be mediocre at best. 

Percy is voiced by the same guy who voiced Pit in Kid Icarus Uprising (Antony Del Rio). ALso, I think you're going to be disappointed by Vangeance - it's just not as reliable as it was in Awakening for multiple reasons.

[Mandokarla]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Percy is voiced by the same guy who voiced Pit in Kid Icarus Uprising (Antony Del Rio). ALso, I think you're going to be disappointed by Vangeance - it's just not as reliable as it was in Awakening for multiple reasons.

I know its not, but there's no reason not to grab it right now. It's a chance for more damage, not gonna complain about that. It will probably get replaced by something else later down the line. 

[Shadow Mir]

15 minutes ago, Mandokarla said:

I know its not, but there's no reason not to grab it right now. It's a chance for more damage, not gonna complain about that. It will probably get replaced by something else later down the line. 

Well, I just think something that's bound to prove a dud, especially in a game like this (Vengeance requires low HP to do anything, and with most units tending to have low HP in this game... yeah. Also, its activation rate got decreased, and lower stats don't help), is just a wasted skill slot imho. Anyways, I always found the portion of chapter 23 where Oboro is to be hell to break through.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Mandokarla]

Can't waste an early empty slot though.

[Mandokarla]

So I got Nina, made her an Adventurer (Azura is the mother, Niles gave her Rally Skill) because I like staff utility. She looks usable this time around, and just in time for a chapter that takes forever: The Ninja Cave. Calamity Gate Ophelia + Niles/Nina is going to be super useful, even if I hate this chapter. Soleil is unlocked, but I want to wait until Laslow levels up one more time and gets Sol before I grab her up. Gonna MN her too methinks. 

Is it worth getting Forrest and Siegbert? I don't see myself getting Xander and Leo paired up before like chapter 23 at the earliest without using the grind DLC. Wives would be Peri and Nyx respectively, unless y'all got a better option. Jakob is also unpaired, so Dwyer is kinda up in the air on existence. 

Silas has by this point fallen off, and Corrin just doesn't get into VoF range anymore (Paladin Corrin is just slaughtering things), so I think he's benched now. He was indispensable early, but his time has come and gone. Niles has managed to gain a few points of strength, so he ISN'T garbage for me for the first time ever. Keaton got Rally Strength and I HS him back into Wolfsengger, where he is looking quite solid. Next plans of action are to get the remaining heart seals I need for Soleil, Camilla (to Wyvern Lord), and maybe another kid. Shigure will have rally skill and rally speed as a pegasus knight, and then I'm probably gonna make him a Kinshi Knight because I like them. Kana is garbage, as usual, so nah. He was an exp chapter. 

Percy isn't being used, because frankly I don't get why he's considered good. He's never turned out well for me. 

Leo is lagging behind in levels, but I'm not sure who I can replace him with. Should I even keep fielding Jakob by this point? Soleil is gonna cover knives when I get her, and Nina is my second healer now, idk if I need 3. Xander is too good not to use, and Bryhildr is just strong as hell. 

 

[joshcja]

Vengance is bad. Not for Levants reasons but for sane ones. By 23 Ophelia has life-or-death. Nothing lives. Why care about venge making things doubledead? Bowbreaker is actually really useful though in 25/28. Trample is really solid in 26/27/28 if you're missing a few mag statues.

Blenders eat a lot of exp like 95% of the exp, and you get freestaves. Build for stack, utility is free. The run's fine as is, you'll make it through. Defining roles by weapon triangle slot or any other irrelevant distinction just bugs the hell out of me >_< (triangle in fates is axetome wins gg. ranjito and seigfried are pointy tomes. Bolt axe is both an axe and a tome so it's OP). Not saying be an optimalscumlord because thats boring, just clearing up a common misconception folks bring into CQ from other FE titles.

Percy is an early bird with inherent +15 stack off child bases/caps. So he's good. He also passes wyvern line to other gen2's, stops crits, joins early and uses axes. He also has an immediate Be support.

Silias doubles just fine, check his speed in BK holding MN kaze and a tonic+footwork. Not that it matters. Str tonic and lightforge bow splatter's mook ninjas in cave with VoF up. (VoF is very easy to keep up from 17-26, 14-16 are just gimmies). He stops blending after ch13 if you dont roll stackMN but he's never bad per say. +6 stack uninvested with his str base/growth gets orko's all game long. Cav tree is just really really bad lategame.

TL:DR. Venge is bad because Stack. You are not devoting yourself fully to the stack and it knows of your faithless ways. Percy is good because stack. Silias never falls off because stack. (Almost everything I post about this game can be summed up as "Because stack")

Edited November 16, 2017 by joshcja

[Mandokarla]

I'll be honest, getting LoD on Ophelia sounds like a massive pain in my ass, so no. Additionally, with Elise as her mother, her defense is practically negative, so I don't want to risk getting oneshot lategame because of the +10 dmg from LoD -- nos is useless if you get oneshot (implying nostanking with Ophelia -- not the plan, but also not an impossibility) I'm gonna go back to Sorcerer after I get Warp because of Bowbreaker for endgame. Getting trample on Ophelia is equally a pain in the ass, though I am much more inclined to think Trample is worth it for her than LoD. I don't like double-edged swords if they're avoidable. 

Silas is a 20/2 Paladin and his stats are weaker than 18/1 Adventurer Nina's in everything except str (by 3 points) and def (the only significant difference). He's just not worth the slot at this point. Kaze hasn't been deployed since ch.12 because I haven't had any need of him. I just gave both Nina and Niles Iron Bow +1, and they're doin just fine.