Conquest Lunatic: First Time Through

[Mandokarla]

I have decided to torment myself, and so I have started Conquest Lunatic. Female +speed/-mag Paladin Corrin, I'm on chapter 11. Already paired Silas with Effie and recruited Sophie. Paired Nyx and Odin. Paired Corrin with Jakob to maximize the abuse of his personal skill. Recruited Anna -- planning on making her a Mechanist and then heart sealing to Adventurer after I get Replicate, so I can get more healing on the board. 

I have used the free gifts from Anna, I made Nyx a witch, gave boots and paragon to Corrin. I used the dread scroll path bonus on Jakob, because he will also be a combat unit when I need more damage on the board. I have the EXP grind dlc map, and I am not afraid to use it if I get completely roadblocked. I had to grind a few levels out for chapter 10 (roughly 2 levels for everyone). 

Selena died on the last turn of Pearl Harbor, and I really didn't care to restart for her. 

What do you guys think I should do in terms of future pairings and strats? Any general advice? I do not intend to use the grind map a lot -- only when I hit a non-paralogue chapter that makes me reset more than six times in a row, without having an invasion or paralogue to get exp from. 

[De Geso]

Use Odin. Seriously.

[Mandokarla]

1 hour ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

Use Odin. Seriously.

Its too late for that -- I'm not going to grind him up from level 5, as much as I love him. His stats are too mediocre for me to use, and nostanking seems as viable as on Hard -- Not. 

[Shadow Mir]

Avoid Arthur and Charlotte like they were Ornes in Kid Icarus Uprising. They suck. Like, really badly.

[joshcja]

12 hours ago, Mandokarla said:

Its too late for that -- I'm not going to grind him up from level 5, as much as I love him. His stats are too mediocre for me to use, and nostanking seems as viable as on Hard -- Not. 

Odin is the cheese mode of no-grind lunatic...

My advise is reset and forgoe dlc. If you had to grind for a weak ch10 clear you're pretty much boned.

Quick and dirty LCQ for dummies party guide. Build one of each ep blender (sorc+sm, mn+sol+stack, talisman!Xander+draco), 1-2 aurabots in combat classes, stacked bosskiller (zerker), all else in kinsi/bk/bird. Freezana and Freelora are free. Spam freeze/entrap/enfeeble maliciously. Capture rallyman and passfalco. Jakobdin is for suckers. Corrins build doesn't matter past ch7 because VoF is better, +hp/+mag are the only boons that let Corrin contribute meaningfully at half hp if that's a thing. There is more money than you will ever need. There is more exp than you will ever need. Learn to stack.

Avoid nyx, keaton, effie, kaze, harlot, and peri outside of pairup bot shenanigans. (Kaze can be useful he's just better as a bot, peri can shelter)

Edited November 13, 2017 by joshcja

[Mandokarla]

11 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Avoid Arthur and Charlotte like they were Ornes in Kid Icarus Uprising. They suck. Like, really badly.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of them. If I feel like using a fighter/zerker, I'll reclass Beruka. But that means using Beruka, and she's just so slow -- meant to be a flying tank I guess. 

 

36 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Odin+nos is half the cheese mode of no-grind no-kid lunatic...

My advise is reset and forgoe dlc. If you had to grind for a weak ch10 clear you're pretty much boned.

Quick and dirty LCQ for dummies party guide. Build one of each ep blender (sorc+sm, mn+sol+stack, talisman!Xander+draco), 1-2 aurabots in combat classes, stacked bosskiller (zerker), all else in kinsi/bk/bird. Freezana and Freelora are free. Spam freeze/entrap/enfeeble maliciously. Capture rallyman and passfalco. Jakobdin is for suckers. Corrins build doesn't matter past ch7 because VoF is better. There is more money than you will ever need. There is more exp than you will ever need. Learn to stack.

Avoid nyx, keaton, effie, kaze, harlot, and peri outside of pairup bot shenanigans. (Kaze can be useful he's just better as a bot)

Putting your condescension aside, I too can throw around small groups of letters with some degree of meaning. Clarify. Also, why would I not use the kids? A few of them are worth using, for example I'm probably going to wind up using Nina, just because Niles has never managed to get higher than 14 strength as a bow knight before the ninja cave, and therefore isn't pulling his weight. And that's on any of my now-several hard playthroughs, I don't expect different performance here. 

 

Remember this is my first time through lunatic -- I'm not intending to follow any elitist ruleset for this. I don't particularly care about turncount either, arbitrary judgement points of efficiency are irrelevant to me on my first time through. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Mandokarla

[Shadow Mir]

45 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Odin is the cheese mode of no-grind lunatic...

My advise is reset and forgoe dlc. If you had to grind for a weak ch10 clear you're pretty much boned.

Quick and dirty LCQ for dummies party guide. Build one of each ep blender (sorc+sm, mn+sol+stack, talisman!Xander+draco), 1-2 aurabots in combat classes, stacked bosskiller (zerker), all else in kinsi/bk/bird. Freezana and Freelora are free. Spam freeze/entrap/enfeeble maliciously. Capture rallyman and passfalco. Jakobdin is for suckers. Corrins build doesn't matter past ch7 because VoF is better, +hp/+mag are the only boons that let Corrin contribute meaningfully at half hp if that's a thing. There is more money than you will ever need. There is more exp than you will ever need. Learn to stack.

Avoid nyx, keaton, effie, kaze, harlot, and peri outside of pairup bot shenanigans. (Kaze can be useful he's just better as a bot, peri can shelter)

Ha. You talk so much, yet say so little (that's actually good advice, that is - Sol? Lol. Go play games before Awakening if you want a game where Sol is actually good. Vow of Friendship is trash, and Silas is nothing special himself).

Edited November 13, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[joshcja]

47 minutes ago, Mandokarla said:

Putting your condescension aside, I too can throw around small groups of letters with some degree of meaning. Clarify. Also, why would I not use the kids? A few of them are worth using, for example I'm probably going to wind up using Nina, just because Niles has never managed to get higher than 14 strength as a bow knight before the ninja cave, and therefore isn't pulling his weight. And that's on any of my now-several hard playthroughs, I don't expect different performance here. 

 

Remember this is my first time through lunatic -- I'm not intending to follow any elitist ruleset for this. I don't particularly care about turncount either, arbitrary judgement points of efficiency are irrelevant to me on my first time through. 

The no-drawback dracozerk is named Percy.

No hate. 10 is a watershed for how the rest of the run will look and "For Dummies" is a long running series of educational books. The advise was purely aimed at a mostly painless unspoiled first clear.

Bow Knight, Vow of Friendship.

Stack is the primary abusable mechanic of fates. Nobody else gave it a short name in the years the game has been out so stack it is. You take every possible additive skill/stat booster/pairup/mess hall/tonic/aura/rally/dance/reclass/forge/statue/W-rank and stack them to do very silly things to this game. This is busted from ch7-ch28.

Levant: Viable stacked MN's hit 40+ skill at 20-5, take single digit damage and heal for 10+ a tick. 40% is reliable when a unit attacks 20+ times per turn. Stop.

Edited November 13, 2017 by joshcja

[DragonFlames]

Oh boy, another firefight between Levant and josh incoming! Pass me the popcorn!

As someone who struggled his way through Hard mode, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors, OP!

I think the best you can do is use all opportunities to strengthen the people that you want to be strong (as in, get all the statboosters). So get as many children Paralogues as you can (especially the easier ones where you can get lots of EXP, like Kana's and Sophie's), abuse the crap out of status staves like Freeze, Enfeeble and possibly Entrap and, if you can, get a few Rally skills on your peeps as well. Abuse Tonics, abuse everything that gives you a benefit.
At least that's how I would do it.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, almost forgot: Some of the kids are godlike with the right parents, at least on the lower difficulty settings: Ophelia, Nina, Velouria and Midori in particular are very, very strong if you make them have the right parents.
Elise or Nyx for Best Girl Ophelia
Camilla or Effie for Velouria
Azura or Felicia for Nina
Selena, Beruka or Mozu for Midori -> definitely switch Midori's class to either Ninja or Dread Fighter to watch her wreck stuff with ease. Or keep her as her standard class and make her a Merchant if you lack a strong bow unit.

I might actually ghost this thread to get a few tips myself...

Edited November 13, 2017 by DragonFlames

[joshcja]

It's worth noting that Soliel is a strict upgrade over every other MN provided she has a high HP growth mom and she's basicly gaurenteed to exist because fancy footwork makes Lafast an auto-deploy on every map.

Edited November 13, 2017 by joshcja

[Mandokarla]

13 minutes ago, joshcja said:

The no-drawback dracozerk is named Percy.

No hate. 10 is a watershed for how the rest of the run will look and "For Dummies" is a long running series of educational books. The advise was purely aimed at a mostly painless unspoiled first clear.

Bow Knight, Vow of Friendship.

Stack is the primary abusable mechanic of fates. Nobody else gave it a short name in the years the game has been out so stack it is. You take every possible additive skill/stat booster/pairup/mess hall/tonic/aura/rally/dance/reclass/forge/statue/W-rank and stack them to do very silly things to this game.

Levant: Viable stacked MN's hit 40+ skill at 20-5, take single digit damage and heal for 10+ a tick. 40% is reliable when a unit attacks 20+ times per turn. Stop.

I'm aware of the for Dummies series. It was the rest in combination that contributed to that perception, so apologies. 
Also, I do agree with Levant here, Silas is so much of a mediocre unit that risking >=50% hp corrin in a map to make him usable just isn't worth it. Vow of Friendship doesn't cut it for Silas, especially considering that he very often fails to double anything. 

Clarifying stack is actually very helpful, I do intend on abusing that. 

Going back a ways, how is Nos!Odin even viable on lunatic? The only way I managed to make Odin good in Hard was to HS him into Samurai or make him a Grandmaster. 

[Mandokarla]

8 minutes ago, joshcja said:

It's worth noting that Soliel is a strict upgrade over every other provided she has a high HP growth mom and she's basicly gaurenteed to exist because fancy footwork makes Lafast an auto-deploy on every map.

Over every other what? something got lost in the edit I think.

I'm fine by it, as Soleil is my favorite kid and has one of my favorite maps in the franchise. 

[joshcja]

39 minutes ago, Mandokarla said:

I'm aware of the for Dummies series. It was the rest in combination that contributed to that perception, so apologies. 
Also, I do agree with Levant here, Silas is so much of a mediocre unit that risking >=50% hp corrin in a map to make him usable just isn't worth it. Vow of Friendship doesn't cut it for Silas, especially considering that he very often fails to double anything. 

Clarifying stack is actually very helpful, I do intend on abusing that. 

Going back a ways, how is Nos!Odin even viable on lunatic? The only way I managed to make Odin good in Hard was to HS him into Samurai or make him a Grandmaster. 

Stack lets Silias double on ch7 with a speed level up. After MN/BK adds and A/S supports kick in (kaze lol) it's just silly. This is a game that lets you casually slap 20+ speed onto a unit. VoF is strong stack yo.

Gonna quote JSND "You train Odin by letting him solo maps". Or just use the exp glut of P1+Invasion 1 constructively. XL10 Odin by ch9 is easy to set up. Vantage+tomes is just dumbstrong, dieing with vantage nos is actively difficult, and with stack (Lifeordeath is way too good) you can just one turn splatter half a map (This is why Ophelia is completely busted.) Odin is nosguy of choice because he's accurate, fat as fuck, and comes with the best innate skillset in the game.

+Hp/+Mag Corrins can chew a Hp tonic mid map to trigger VoF and safely enter combat. Supportive is just also better than Corrins combat past early game.

Edit: woops "every other mn"

Edited November 13, 2017 by joshcja

[Shadow Mir]

56 minutes ago, joshcja said:

The no-drawback dracozerk is named Percy.

No hate. 10 is a watershed for how the rest of the run will look and "For Dummies" is a long running series of educational books. The advise was purely aimed at a mostly painless unspoiled first clear.

Bow Knight, Vow of Friendship.

Stack is the primary abusable mechanic of fates. Nobody else gave it a short name in the years the game has been out so stack it is. You take every possible additive skill/stat booster/pairup/mess hall/tonic/aura/rally/dance/reclass/forge/statue/W-rank and stack them to do very silly things to this game. This is busted from ch7-ch28.

Levant: Viable stacked MN's hit 40+ skill at 20-5, take single digit damage and heal for 10+ a tick. 40% is reliable when a unit attacks 20+ times per turn. Stop.

Hah. You need to stop hyping stuff that's obviously garbage (Sol? Go back to Jugdral or Tellius if you want a game where Sol's actually worthy of a skill slot. It's a hell of a wasted skill slot here where it only works once, by which I mean it only does anything if it activates against a healthy enemy - if you think throwing a Master Ninja into a horde of enemies hoping Sol activates enough to keep them from taking a dirt nap is a good strategy, you must be a few grapes short of a bunch). Also, caps don't mean jack when you won't be hitting them until near the end of the game.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Mandokarla]

55 minutes ago, joshcja said:

It's worth noting that Soliel is a strict upgrade over every other MN provided she has a high HP growth mom and she's basicly gaurenteed to exist because fancy footwork makes Lafast an auto-deploy on every map.

Master Ninja Soleil with Charlotte as her mother has the following growths: 

50 hp

62.5 str

0 mag

55 skl

62.5 spd

45 luck

32.5 def

42.5 red

Those look decent to me. Not stellar, but respectable. I don't think sol is as bad as Levant says, nor do I think it's as reliable as you claim. That said, Soleil will be fine with it, considering she has Good Fortune + Strong Riposte to start, inherits presumably sol from Laslow and what, HP +5 from Harlot? Maybe Gamble, as bad as it is? so that's 4 skills, then comes her personal skill, making 5. 6 total skill slots, and she doesn't really need like, lethality, so you're really choosing between locktouch and poison strike, unless you ditch Good Fortune (which, you know, is probably the right choice, meh as it is). Come endgame, if she hits 15, you delete locktouch for Shurikenfaire if you want. It's not much of a wasted skill slot to have Sol on Soleil. Unless you make Laslow a BK and pass down Shurikenbreaker, and have Soleil HS after learning Sol naturally. 

 

But I feel safe in having extreme doubts about throwing MN Soleil into a horde of enemies a la Awakening Morgan.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Mandokarla

[joshcja]

32 minutes ago, Mandokarla said:

Master Ninja Soleil with Charlotte as her mother has the following growths: 

50 hp

62.5 str

0 mag

55 skl

62.5 spd

45 luck

32.5 def

42.5 red

Those look decent to me. Not stellar, but respectable. I don't think sol is as bad as Levant says, nor do I think it's as reliable as you claim. That said, Soleil will be fine with it, considering she has Good Fortune + Strong Riposte to start, inherits presumably sol from Laslow and what, HP +5 from Harlot? Maybe Gamble, as bad as it is? so that's 4 skills, then comes her personal skill, making 5. 6 total skill slots, and she doesn't really need like, lethality, so you're really choosing between locktouch and poison strike, unless you ditch Good Fortune (which, you know, is probably the right choice, meh as it is). Come endgame, if she hits 15, you delete locktouch for Shurikenfaire if you want. It's not much of a wasted skill slot to have Sol on Soleil. Unless you make Laslow a BK and pass down Shurikenbreaker, and have Soleil HS after learning Sol naturally. 

 

Gamble knives are pretty good.

Soliel gets +5, gamble, and sol in hero with harlot as her mom. This is pretty much instant with a child seal.

Shurikenfaire is kosher late as is dipping off supports for more stack. Inherent BK + ch24 + bronze bow makes building a Sbreaker ninja for ch25 ez. Harlot is a gr8 mom for stats but her not-axe stack contributions are minor. That said Soliel is named Soliel and has sisterhood+str for days so her need for stack is minimal.

Edited November 13, 2017 by joshcja

[Agro]

VoF is broken AF, especially in the earlygame. Pair up weakened Corrin with Silas and he gets +5/-5, exclusive of pair up bonuses. He can definitely 1HKO ch 10 ninjas in hard mode with a tonic/javelin forge. not sure about lunatic but I don't imagine it's terribly different...

Edited November 13, 2017 by Agro

[Shadow Mir]

24 minutes ago, Agro said:

VoF is broken AF, especially in the earlygame. Pair up weakened Corrin with Silas and he gets +5/-5, exclusive of pair up bonuses. He can definitely 1HKO ch 10 ninjas in hard mode with a tonic/javelin forge. not sure about lunatic but I don't imagine it's terribly different...

I don't buy this, because keeping Corrin half-dead and unhealed just for Silas to get boosted sounds about as smart as robbing a police station - Not. Also, part of that is coming from Corrin's personal, assuming they have a support with Silas. And I don't see forging as a legit argument, like, at all.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Mandokarla]

Alright, so I did wind up restarting because I was too curious about Odin being a good nos tank. He is indeed a good nos tank, and Chapter 10 did go much smoother as a result. 

As for VoF, It definitely makes a difference and I do feel like it is good, it isn't at all broken. It makes Silas a good unit, as opposed to an average (and therefore bad) unit when it is in effect. VoF + S support with Cornflake bonuses makes a lot of difference.

Working on pairing Odin and Elise, Effie and Arthur, and debating Niles and Camilla. I've again found that Niles has not gained a point of strength in the last three or four levels -- he is two levels up on Kaze and still has goddamn 11 strength. He's actually garbage, fails to kill anything that isn't flying. I've never had him be good. 

Seeing the dragon vein get moved in ch.12 is mean and annoying. Not sure how I'm going to go about beating that chapter this time.

[De Geso]

36 minutes ago, Mandokarla said:

Alright, so I did wind up restarting because I was too curious about Odin being a good nos tank. He is indeed a good nos tank, and Chapter 10 did go much smoother as a result. 

As for VoF, It definitely makes a difference and I do feel like it is good, it isn't at all broken. It makes Silas a good unit, as opposed to an average (and therefore bad) unit when it is in effect. VoF + S support with Cornflake bonuses makes a lot of difference.

Working on pairing Odin and Elise, Effie and Arthur, and debating Niles and Camilla. I've again found that Niles has not gained a point of strength in the last three or four levels -- he is two levels up on Kaze and still has goddamn 11 strength. He's actually garbage, fails to kill anything that isn't flying. I've never had him be good. 

Seeing the dragon vein get moved in ch.12 is mean and annoying. Not sure how I'm going to go about beating that chapter this time.

I hear you get a pretty good pre-promote in Chapter 10 that helps a lot with Chapter 12...

Edited November 14, 2017 by YouSquiddinMe

[Shadow Mir]

44 minutes ago, Mandokarla said:

Alright, so I did wind up restarting because I was too curious about Odin being a good nos tank. He is indeed a good nos tank, and Chapter 10 did go much smoother as a result. 

As for VoF, It definitely makes a difference and I do feel like it is good, it isn't at all broken. It makes Silas a good unit, as opposed to an average (and therefore bad) unit when it is in effect. VoF + S support with Cornflake bonuses makes a lot of difference.

Working on pairing Odin and Elise, Effie and Arthur, and debating Niles and Camilla. I've again found that Niles has not gained a point of strength in the last three or four levels -- he is two levels up on Kaze and still has goddamn 11 strength. He's actually garbage, fails to kill anything that isn't flying. I've never had him be good. 

Seeing the dragon vein get moved in ch.12 is mean and annoying. Not sure how I'm going to go about beating that chapter this time.

As for chapter 12, I'd just Google a map that shows the pots' effects, and break the ones you can get away with breaking (the Dragon Vein isn't worth it - whoever activates it gets hit with a half HP effect). 

Also, personally, I'd avoid using Berserkers, unless you REALLY like gambling.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Mandokarla]

2 hours ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

I hear you get a pretty good pre-promote in Chapter 10 that helps a lot with Chapter 12...

Yeah, I'll just go solo the map with Camilla, how absolutely stupid of me. Gawsh. 

[Agro]

Do the pot effects get changed in chapter 12 between hard and lunatic? I have all the rally/tonic ones memorised and I just gather my units around them to boost them all and break the chapter. I've never used the dragon vein before

[Shadow Mir]

3 minutes ago, Agro said:

Do the pot effects get changed in chapter 12 between hard and lunatic? I have all the rally/tonic ones memorised and I just gather my units around them to boost them all and break the chapter. I've never used the dragon vein before

From what I've read, the pot effects are fixed.

[joshcja]

3 hours ago, Mandokarla said:

Alright, so I did wind up restarting because I was too curious about Odin being a good nos tank. He is indeed a good nos tank, and Chapter 10 did go much smoother as a result. 

As for VoF, It definitely makes a difference and I do feel like it is good, it isn't at all broken. It makes Silas a good unit, as opposed to an average (and therefore bad) unit when it is in effect. VoF + S support with Cornflake bonuses makes a lot of difference.

Working on pairing Odin and Elise, Effie and Arthur, and debating Niles and Camilla. I've again found that Niles has not gained a point of strength in the last three or four levels -- he is two levels up on Kaze and still has goddamn 11 strength. He's actually garbage, fails to kill anything that isn't flying. I've never had him be good. 

Seeing the dragon vein get moved in ch.12 is mean and annoying. Not sure how I'm going to go about beating that chapter this time.

Just ignore the DV. Ch12 has so much movement tech on lunatic. Examples lunge apoth's are really useful to the player (Boost Odin into the room of mele and bowslol). You can also lunge Camilia/Percy through the entrap room with a forged hand axe. Peri gives you another shelter and breaks pots for free for days. Etc.

Niles is good for Kidnap, Nina, and his early combat is stellar. Just marry him off to a lady with quickdip damage (str+2/Eroom/etc) and burn some forges/freeEdrops if his str is booty garbage. (Or just A+ Arthur and sit in BE for a paralouge for +allthestr and +allthehp, this also gives Niles a BE pairup as needed for the rest of the game). This would be wasteful as fuck on a not kidnap dude but... kidnap is way too good. Mozu also gives males and Effie access to ez quickdraw and kinshi for tons of cheap damage and mobility. (If you're maso enough to use LCQ Effie x.x)

Edited November 14, 2017 by joshcja