Fire Emblem Heroes buffed some stuff: New precedent discussion

[Zapp Branniglenn]

So Fire Emblem Heroes is setting some new precedents by buffing things that exist in the game. That has never happened. To be clear, here are the changes I am referring to in the upcoming 1.9 update:

• the Daylight line of special skills is having its cooldown reduced by one
• the Night Sky line of special skills is having its cooldown reduced by one
• The AoE special skills (Rising Thunder, etc) are having their cooldown reduced by one
• outdated Prf weapons can be upgraded through the Weapon Refinery, directly buffing the unique wielders of said weapons
• generic weapons get some attention in the Refinery too
• Healers are given upgraded versions of their attack and heal skills that you learn with SP like any other skill. Note: These are 5 star locked. Kind of like Prf weapons, and they didn't say if they were inheritable.

So what interests me most are the first three points. That's an actual balance patch. Normally this game "balances" skills with the addition of more skills. Are there any other skills you think deserve that sort of direct update? Particularly among passive and assist skills. Also I love how all of these are freely distributed buffs. You don't have to pull a new character with the improved special skills or healer skills to put on older units. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Glennstavos

[property of nuvelle]

Moonbow at 2 but Noontime at 3 made zero sense so I'm really glad that change was made.

Happy that healers are getting extra.

[Florete]

I like the idea, but some of this I doubt will make a real impact.

• Reduced cooldown is nice, but these specials still aren't likely to be used because their effects just aren't valuable enough, and on top of it the AoE specials still have really high charge for what is often situational use.
• Maybe other healer upgrades are better, but the ones we saw for Sakura don't really make healers more appealing.

I do like the idea of upgrading weapons and I hope this is just a start and they will get to other personal weapons in time (Noatun when?). Being able to upgrade Killer weapons into Slaying weapons is pretty unexpected and should curb some of the complaints.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Just now, Florete said:

 

• and on top of it the AoE specials still have really high charge for what is often situational use.

I actually think those skills can be great. They've already got a niche in being 300SP special skills to raise your arena score. And they're not 5 star locked like Galeforce and Aether so you can pass them on to whoever least needs a conventional special skill. Also, in my experience, these skills are a lot of fun to use. Baiting enemies into the right spots is a neat approach to player phase movement tactics. And the only real downside is that it will proc some enemy phase skills early, like Vantage, but it will shut off others like Quick Riposte.

[Johann]

Just for reference, here's the list of upgrades through the Refinery:

Refinable Weapons:

Spoiler

• Silver Sword+
• Slaying Edge+
• Wo Dao+
• Armorsmasher+
• Zanbato+

• Slaying Hammer+
• Legion's Axe+
• Carrot Axe+
• Melon Crusher+
• Lilith Floatie+

• Silver Lance+
• Slaying Lance+
• Slaying Spear+
• Ridersbane+
• Berkut's Lance+
• Carrot Lance+
• First Bite+
• Deft Harpoon+

• Bolganone+
• Fenrir+
• Keen Rauörwolf+
• Tomato Tome+

• Rexcalibur+
• Keen Gronnwolf+
• Green Egg+
• Hibiscus Tome+
• Dancer's Ring+
• Spectral Tome+

• Thoron+
• Keen Blarwolf+
• Blue Egg+
• Blessed Bouquet+
• Sealife Tome+
• Dancer's Score+

• Flametongue+
• Lightning Breath+
• Light Breath+
• Dark Breath+

• Silver Bow+
• Slaying Bow+
• Guard Bow+
• Clarisse's Bow+
• Cupid Arrow+
• Refreshing Bow+
• Monstrous Bow+

• Silver Dagger+
• Smoke Dagger+
• Rogue Dagger+
• Seashell+
• Dancer's Fan+

• Absorb+
• Fear+
• Slow+
• Gravity+
• Pain+
• Panic+
• Candlelight+

• Sol Katti
• Mystletainn
• Sigmund
• Hauteclere
• Fujin Yumi
• Deathly Dagger

The following weapons can be "evolved":

Spoiler

Through Refining Stones:

• Killing Weapons+ (sword, axe, lance, bow) > Slaying Weapons+
• Armorslayer+ > Armorsmasher+
• Hammer+ > Slaying Hammer+
• Heavy Spear+ > Slaying Spear+
• Assassin's Bow+ > Guard Bow+
• -Wolf+ tomes > Keen -Wolf+ tomes
• Candlelight > Candlelight+ (other staves+ are inherited, seemingly, which would not be an option for some due to Bride Lyn being unavailable)

Through Divine Dew:

• Tyrfing > Divine Tyrfing
• Durandal > Blazing Durandal
• Aura > Dark Aura
• Excalibur > Dark Excalibur
• Naga > Divine Naga

The following inheritable weapons don't appear to have any capacity for upgrade:

Spoiler

• Brave Weapons
• Gem Weapons
• Firesweep Weapons
• Blade Tomes
• Owl Tomes
• Raven Tomes
• Poison Dagger+
• Kitty Paddle+

All other exclusive weapons appear to be unchanged as well.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Johann

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

16 minutes ago, Florete said:

I like the idea, but some of this I doubt will make a real impact.

• Reduced cooldown is nice, but these specials still aren't likely to be used because their effects just aren't valuable enough, and on top of it the AoE specials still have really high charge for what is often situational use.
• Maybe other healer upgrades are better, but the ones we saw for Sakura don't really make healers more appealing.

I do like the idea of upgrading weapons and I hope this is just a start and they will get to other personal weapons in time (Noatun when?). Being able to upgrade Killer weapons into Slaying weapons is pretty unexpected and should curb some of the complaints.

On paper Glimmer seems on par with Moonbow actually

[Johann]

I'm very curious to see how much diversity there is for these upgrades.

16 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

On paper Glimmer seems on par with Moonbow actually

Hmm... Steady Breath, Wo Dao, Quick Riposte Glimmer on a unit like Laslow with -spd, backed by a healer was the first thing that came to my mind, but I'll leave that sort of thinking to the heavy investors and mathletes.

[Ice Dragon]

Glimmer hits harder than Moonbow if you're actually doing damage with your attack. Glimmer is definitely superior when using Litrblade. Moonbow is definitely superior when using any Wo Dao or Wrath variant and controlled by the AI.

Astra is still shit.

The AoE special skills are still only useful in longer maps, like ones with reinforcements and multi-map game modes. The biggest restriction on the usefulness of them is not that they have a long cooldown, but that they require the user to initiate combat.

The Sol line looks usable now. It looks like it'll help bulky units and Wo Dao-variant and Wrath users. And AI-controlled Faye.

 

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

Note: These are 5 star locked. Kind of like Prf weapons, and they didn't say if they were inheritable.

Normal "+" weapons are also locked to 5-star rarity, you know. They look like they'll be inheritable.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[Zapp Branniglenn]

6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Normal "+" weapons are also locked to 5-star rarity, you know. They look like they'll be inheritable.

Right, I could have worded that better. I didn't see any text in the Broadcast or in tonight's notification that suggests they're uninheritable. But I feel like they ought to have been in order to discourage people from doing 4*+10 healers over promoting them to 5 star.

Also, hearing how great Glimmer can be, I suddenly wish I didn't trash a bunch of berukas to make space. She, peri, and Lonqu just became more valuable fodder.

[Hilda]

mmm stave users barely got a boost. They just got a free weapon upgrade, compared to the boost the other weapons got, it puts them right at the position they were lol. I hope the Assist boost and debuff boost is worthwile...

[Hilda]

I retract my statement, apearantly according to the video the allready enhanced Healer staves can be upgraded even further with weapon refinement oO, so it is indeed a boost

Edited November 15, 2017 by Hilda

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Hilda said:

mmm stave users barely got a boost. They just got a free weapon upgrade, compared to the boost the other weapons got, it puts them right at the position they were lol. I hope the Assist boost and debuff boost is worthwile...

Dazzling Staff + Panic+ might actually be meaningful now since if Fear+ was anything to go by, the debuffs should now have an AoE effect. Fear+ and Slow+ would also be useful. Unlike all of the other after-battle debuff skills (like Smoke and Savage Blow), the staff debuffs also affect the target of the attack. AoE Pain+ would also be obnoxious to deal with since the effect activates if the user attacks at all, even if the user is killed.

I don't really see the Assist boost being particularly necessary since the department that healers were lacking in was support and not healing.

[Hilda]

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Dazzling Staff + Panic+ might actually be meaningful now since if Fear+ was anything to go by, the debuffs should now have an AoE effect. Fear+ and Slow+ would also be useful. Unlike all of the other after-battle debuff skills (like Smoke and Savage Blow), the staff debuffs also affect the target of the attack. AoE Pain+ would also be obnoxious to deal with since the effect activates if the user attacks at all, even if the user is killed.

I don't really see the Assist boost being particularly necessary since the department that healers were lacking in was support and not healing.

actually the assist boost can become quite in hande, physic healing for 50% HP from range is quite nice, i wonder what the other skills will do

Oh no no no no no, the Tomeowls are missing in the upgrade weapon list... i understand Dire Thunder and the Litrblades not being present, but the Litrowls not being present ._.?

Also Meric is the new Tanky version of Sonya, Dark Excalibur might make him a bit more decent against physical attacking units. I wonder if his Dark Excalibur keeps the effect of being effectiv against flying units!

Sol Katti Lyn might become a monster orz ._.

Sol Katti + with +4 SPD

Moonbow

A: New SPD heavy Blade skill from Mia
B: Wrath 3
C: pick what you want
Sacred Seal: Brash assault 3 Seal

----> go to town lulz

Edited November 15, 2017 by Hilda

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I wonder if his Dark Excalibur keeps the effect of being effectiv against flying units!

Probably not. It's almost certainly the exact same skill that Sonya has.

 

9 minutes ago, Hilda said:

i understand Dire Thunder and the Litrblades not being present,

Dire Thunder is a unique weapon, and literally only 6 unique weapons have upgrade opportunities (not including the upgrades that are a different weapon skill).

Edited November 15, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[Vaximillian]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Glimmer is definitely superior when using Litrblade.

I just accidentally have a whole lot of Berukas with poor natures lying around gathering dust! Yeah, time to take out the trash.

[Magical Glace]

There are some things I wish were on the upgradable list but aren't (why is Siegmund there but not Sieglinde, they do literally the exact same thing, Binding Blade despite being one of the most shafted legendary weapons isn't there either), but hopefully future updates expand the list.

Otherwise this solution seems nice.

[LucarioGamer812]

So really excited for this, in terms of weapon buffing, I'm so excited. For starters my Ephraim is -Atk, so giving a Siegmund with more might will help a lot. And then Growing Flame on my Lilina will be even better. So already two of my four main five stars are getting buffed, since Ephraim is getting buffed, Eirika probably is as well, so that makes three, and Brave Lyn is probably going to be allowed the same treatment due to fairness. So my entire main team gets buffed. Also unrelated by I am really excited for the legendary summoning (I spent $70 trying to get Bride Cordelia and only got Bride Caeda, this time will be different)

(note: Read above, RIP Eirika, maybe in the future or they forgot to include it in the entire list of legendary/prf weapons)

[Mackc2]

I am not happy that owl tomes are not on the list, they needed it. Seiglinde is another one I am pissed about, but thats only because seigmund gets it.

[Corrobin]

Of note: Base Fear was -6 Attack. Fear+ is -7.

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

So really excited for this, in terms of weapon buffing, I'm so excited. For starters my Ephraim is -Atk, so giving a Siegmund with more might will help a lot. And then Growing Flame on my Lilina will be even better. So already two of my four main five stars are getting buffed, since Ephraim is getting buffed, Eirika probably is as well, so that makes three, and Brave Lyn is probably going to be allowed the same treatment due to fairness. So my entire main team gets buffed. Also unrelated by I am really excited for the legendary summoning (I spent $70 trying to get Bride Cordelia and only got Bride Caeda, this time will be different)

(note: Read above, RIP Eirika, maybe in the future or they forgot to include it in the entire list of legendary/prf weapons)

I really dont think Brave Lyn will get a similar Treatment as Ephraim in terms of Weapon upgrade. Her Weapon is allready strong as it is, it will prolly just give her +2 might thats it.

[Jingle Jangle]

A good step in the right direction but I wish that there characters got their weapon buffed to keep up with the newcomers. But one step at a time.

• Askr trio
• Jeorge 
• Roy 
• Zephiel 
• Eirika 
• mCorrin
• Leo 
• Sanaki 

Nice to see that breath weapons got boosted, now we just need home dragons.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Jingle Jangle

[Roflolxp54]

Fear+ basically has Atk Smoke 3 built in which is a strong effect and also affects the target, too, unlike the actual passive skill.

Candlelight+... oh boy. If it’s like Fear+, it may not be fun to play against but fun to use, especially in training.

Physic+ healing scales off of the user’s Atk stat. Now Wrathful Staff isn’t the only reason to have +Atk on a healer (or go neutral Atk instead of -Atk).

Very curious on the Sol Katti upgrades...

[Arthur97]

So, they do seem to be going for weapons that are either outdated or special weapons of characters that need some help (Takumi and base Lyn for example), however, why aren't characters like Leo, base Roy, and Chrom getting a boost (okay, Chrom shares his weapon with Marth, Lucina, and masked Lucina so maybe passing on Falchion is more understandable)?

[Vaximillian]

16 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

why aren't characters like Leo, base Roy, and Chrom getting a boost?

Next batch, probably. Maybe by the anniversary along with the trio.

[Arthur97]

4 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Next batch, probably. Maybe by the anniversary along with the trio.

I want Exalted Falchion...(maybe they plan to add Anri with it?) Still, hopefully they will get their buffs.

Seriously though, the core of my arena team uses Falchion, a raven tome, and a blade tome which means that none of them get to upgrade. Guess I can upgrade lightning breath at least.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Arthur97