Fire Emblem Heroes buffed some stuff: New precedent discussion

[Hilda]

25 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I want Exalted Falchion...(maybe they plan to add Anri with it?) Still, hopefully they will get their buffs.

Seriously though, the core of my arena team uses Falchion, a raven tome, and a blade tome which means that none of them get to upgrade. Guess I can upgrade lightning breath at least.

Blade tomes not gettung upgrades is understandable (that stuff is broken), Falchions not getting upgrades not really. Raven tomes... depending on the buff it would recieve it would utterly destroy colorless units... so ugh :/

[Arthur97]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

Blade tomes not gettung upgrades is understandable (that stuff is broken), Falchions not getting upgrades not really. Raven tomes... depending on the buff it would recieve it would utterly destroy colorless units... so ugh :/

Oh no, I know blade tomes are fine as are, but I was just saying that I'm not getting much options for upgrades. I mean, I do have units that are eligible, but they typically aren't my core team. Even Cherche and Cordelia who can make a good fourth member use brave weapons. Young Tiki is probably my highest priority upgrade with lightning breath+.

[Ice Dragon]

Falchion is still considered to be one of the better unique weapons due to the ability to stack Renewal on the combat medic build.

In comparison,

• Sol Katti has had its old niche tread on by the Brash Assault seal, and Lyn is on the weaker side to begin with,
• Mystletainn and Hauteclere are not all that much stronger than Slaying weapons anymore (especially if the upgrade on Slaying weapons bumps their Mt up to 15 or 16),
• Fujin Yumi was crap from day one being effectively a Silver Bow+ with +1 Atk,
• Siegmund seems to be there to make a certain person from a certain interview happy and probably because Ephraim is about to have stiff competition with a certain waifu with a Distant Counter lance and an actual Spd stat,
• and Deathly Dagger was pretty much crap from day one, as well.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[dragonlordsd]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Falchion is still considered to be one of the better unique weapons due to the ability to stack Renewal on the combat medic build.

In comparison,

• Sol Katti has had its old niche tread on by the Brash Assault seal, and Lyn is on the weaker side to begin with,
• Mystletainn and Hauteclere are not all that much stronger than Slaying weapons anymore (especially if the upgrade on Slaying weapons bumps their Mt up to 15 or 16),
• Fujin Yumi was crap from day one being effectively a Silver Bow+ with +1 Atk,
• Siegmund seems to be there to make a certain person from a certain interview happy and probably because Ephraim is about to have stiff competition with a certain waifu with a Distant Counter lance and an actual Spd stat,
• and Deathly Dagger was pretty much crap from day one, as well.

With this update, they seem to have specifically picked out all of the least-meta weapons to target, but I ASSUME that all non-divine tier weapons will receive the same treatment at some point (armands, falchion, etc).

Due to how utterly sweeping the changes are, I don't think it's safe to say anything about how the meta will be shifted at this point. There are so ridiculously many new possibilities this has opened up that all we can do is wait and see.

Also, Fjorn's speed was only 31, I think? Idk on the distant counter part, that may have just been her skill (though I really, really hope she does actually have dc)

The tiering of speed has changed so drastically recently that I don't think it really matters all that much. You either have more than 36 base speed or you don't.

That said, you're right, she IS going to see use being a) free b) waifu c) uniquely skilled.

[Sire]

I like the fact that this is an actual balance patch instead of adding new stuff that tries to be competitive with the old stuff. So, I lean more towards approving of these changes.

However, I am still hesitant as better weapons and new heroes with higher stat lines are becoming the norm. While I like the changes, there are still concerns elsewhere that prevent me from fully enjoying the game.

[dragonlordsd]

1 minute ago, Sire said:

I like the fact that this is an actual balance patch instead of adding new stuff that tries to be competitive with the old stuff. So, I lean more towards approving of these changes.

However, I am still hesitant as better weapons and new heroes with higher stat lines are becoming the norm. While I like the changes, there are still concerns elsewhere that prevent me from fully enjoying the game.

Heartily Agreed.

[Vaximillian]

@Ice Dragon: What if Fjorm’s DC is not due to her weapon but due to her special, Ice Mirror? It would make sense because of the name and everything, and can be her personal unique uninheritable special.

[Brother of Metal]

This kind of sweeping changes usually brings new problems, but the weapons and units affected by this were so on the underpowered side that I'm fine with it. If for some reason something that overshadows the Lynhardt dictatorship emerges, I'd be more than fine (and amused) with it.

And more importantly, I prefer altering balance this way than the previous one of adding new things without directly fixing the underlying problems.

[Arthur97]

49 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Falchion is still considered to be one of the better unique weapons due to the ability to stack Renewal on the combat medic build.

In comparison,

• Sol Katti has had its old niche tread on by the Brash Assault seal, and Lyn is on the weaker side to begin with,
• Mystletainn and Hauteclere are not all that much stronger than Slaying weapons anymore (especially if the upgrade on Slaying weapons bumps their Mt up to 15 or 16),
• Fujin Yumi was crap from day one being effectively a Silver Bow+ with +1 Atk,
• Siegmund seems to be there to make a certain person from a certain interview happy and probably because Ephraim is about to have stiff competition with a certain waifu with a Distant Counter lance and an actual Spd stat,
• and Deathly Dagger was pretty much crap from day one, as well.

I figured Ephraim's was already more or less overshadowed by Lancina.

[Stroud]

I guess I could be glad that I did not draw Amelia. I would have been pretty salty if I used her for giving Slaying axe too Sheena only to see that I can upgrade Sheenas weapon. :D

I have nothing to complain about this for now. 
I just don't have much characters with Legendary weapons I use.

But I'm glad for Seliph, maybe I will put him to his mothers side.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Stroud

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I hope Lloyd will be on the list of Prf upgrades in the future as well. +2Atk/Spd at 100% health isn't groundbreaking enough that you would make an effort to keep him at full health. 

I'm surprised to see Lightning Breath on the list of generic weapons you can upgrade. I hope whatever you can do with it doesn't keep Lightning Breath at the top of Breath choices. I'm especially curious about Dark Breath since it's basically just Atk/Spd Smoke. Complete with the flaw that it won't debuff your attacker. Seeing Fear+ makes me think they may go the route of having it affect your target, but also debuff just 5 points instead of 7.

[Emil Amnell]

6 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

A good step in the right direction but I wish that there characters got their weapon buffed to keep up with the newcomers. But one step at a time.

• Askr trio
• Jeorge 
• Roy 
• Zephiel 
• Eirika 
• mCorrin
• Leo 
• Sanaki 

l agree with you. These weapons have pretty basic Skills. Personally, l think that all weapons should be upgradable but those that fall behind (or are favored?) would simply have more options. Like Seigmund (Ephraim's Lance) has 5 options of upgrade and Binding Blade (Roy's Sword) would have like 2 options. Sure, in terms of upgrades it would be a bit unfair, but it would help balance everything in the end.

lt may be just me, but it doesn't feel right that ''Normal Weapons'' (Silver and alike) can have more MT than ''Legendary Weapons''. Sure, they can be close of their power (Silver+ at 15 and Legendary at 16, though Tomes at 14, beats me why), maybe even equal, if we push it enough, but not superior. lt may just be me, but this feels plain wrong.

8 hours ago, Mackc2 said:

I am not happy that owl tomes are not on the list, they needed it. Seiglinde is another one I am pissed about, but thats only because seigmund gets it.

l feel ya on this one. Those tomes are at 10 MT when you have them at + version (Unless l'm mistaken, in terms of MT and adding the update, they're the weakest). lt's obvious that many Heroes had a hard time keeping up and giving them a boost is only to make it more fair (at least, l want to hope that is the case), but in this case (especially Seigmung gets it but not Seiglinde), it's almost like favoritism since they both have the EXACT same effect and EXACT same MT.

[Thinks Their Own Way]

My Peri is going to love Slaying Lance+, I like upgrades like that; it begs the question as to why Saber is still 5 star exclusive. There is zero excuse now. The one thing I didn't like was that piece of poultry implied that Julia was week before getting Divine Naga.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

I'm loving the upgrades, because it means I may have a benefit from giving Raurwolf+ to Arvis in a complete left field move a few weeks ago. It's already a decent option on him since horses are loved by all, but with the chance to give arvis more might/spd/hp with it is delicious and it could really outclass valflame.

People are saying stat stuff about Fjorn; can anyone point me to where this information is? I'd really like to start taking a long long look at her, as I'm really excited for her too.

[MrSmokestack]

1 hour ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

I'm loving the upgrades, because it means I may have a benefit from giving Raurwolf+ to Arvis in a complete left field move a few weeks ago. It's already a decent option on him since horses are loved by all, but with the chance to give arvis more might/spd/hp with it is delicious and it could really outclass valflame.

People are saying stat stuff about Fjorn; can anyone point me to where this information is? I'd really like to start taking a long long look at her, as I'm really excited for her too.

Here you go:

Of note is how she is capable of counterattacking at range, as well as her Ice Mirror skill. Gameplay showed that she took 0 damage from the mage that was attacking her (2 listed), then counterattacked with the damage she was doing already on top of the damage Ice Mirror seemed to block (37 dealt, 35 listed).

Also, I love how loaded the second question is in the OP.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

1 minute ago, MrSmokestack said:

Here you go:

Of note is how she is capable of counterattacking at range, as well as her Ice Mirror skill. Gameplay showed that she took 0 damage from the mage that was attacking her (2 listed), then counterattacked with the damage she was doing already on top of the damage Ice Mirror seemed to block (37 dealt, 35 listed).

Also, I love how loaded the second question is in the OP.

Thank you! She looks really great, and the perfect replacement for Camus on the team. He's double stacked with Distant Defense, so assuming I do something similar with her, magic can almost never hurt her - period. I'm really liking that, and with double DD she'd even tank archers well.

[Hilda]

14 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Thank you! She looks really great, and the perfect replacement for Camus on the team. He's double stacked with Distant Defense, so assuming I do something similar with her, magic can almost never hurt her - period. I'm really liking that, and with double DD she'd even tank archers well.

her Distant Counter might tough only work against Tomes maybe? there is alot of ways they might go with this one

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Just now, Hilda said:

her Distant Counter might tough only work against Tomes maybe? there is alot of ways they might go with this one

That's true. I'm really excited for her as a unit and as a character!

Do we know for sure the straight upgrades for the other weapons, or is that all speculation at this point? If keen wolf because even close in might to valflame and adds speed & HP, I imagine I'm going to have a lot of fun with everyone's horse love.

[Hilda]

Seliph with an upgraded Divine Tyrfing might be a better magical tank (- Reinhardt) then Sigurd, ecxept for the speed part :/. 6 more HP and 5 more Res compared to Sigurd, but Sigurd has far more range and 5 more Speed. omg Seliph might be actually decent at something /shocked.

Also i do get now why the Smoke passives were excluded from being inheritable to healers. If any of the staves follows Sakuras Fear trend then Gravity + Spd Smoke + Atk Smoke Seal + Dazzling Staff Aoeing everything and restricting their movement to 1 would be a nightmare for every team to face oO

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, dragonlordsd said:

Also, Fjorn's speed was only 31, I think?

Still way better than 25.

 

1 hour ago, dragonlordsd said:

Idk on the distant counter part, that may have just been her skill (though I really, really hope she does actually have dc)

Distant Counter appears to be on her weapon. Her default passive A skill appears to be Atk/Def Bond.

 

44 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

What if Fjorm’s DC is not due to her weapon but due to her special, Ice Mirror? It would make sense because of the name and everything, and can be her personal unique uninheritable special.

It would be weird if Ice Mirror gave you Distant Counter on activation since the UI damage display in combat shouldn't be affected by special skill activations, and the display was showing Fjorm as capable of counterattacking the red mage.

 

31 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I figured Ephraim's was already more or less overshadowed by Lancina.

I mean, Ephraim is also currently seeing competition with Lukas, who has a better enemy-phase spread, and Nephenee, who has a better base kit and more player-phase presence. Eirika does the same buffing role with less investment.

Fjorm and a possible Fensalir upgrade for Sharena are certainly not helping his case.

 

4 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I'm surprised to see Lightning Breath on the list of generic weapons you can upgrade.

Lightning Breath is currently held back by being absurdly weak, which is a significant downside for Mystery Tiki and Corrin, who have naturally low Atk stats.

 

8 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I'm especially curious about Dark Breath since it's basically just Atk/Spd Smoke.

It would be really useful to not only debuff the opponent, but also work on enemy phase.

[Alexmender]

Outside of my salt for IS ignoring Eirika (I don't buy the 5* exclusive thing after seeing Michalis getting the buff too) I like this a lot, this will give those underperforming units a new leash on life and make them relatively relevant. Now considering the resources needed coming from Arena it most likely means that it's going to take a while to make all our units better so it's going to be more of a favoritsm thing.

To be honest most of my favorites are already on the upper scale of power so I'll have to wait for the time they'll need a buff. Why are you so awesome Tana!? Also I'm really glad they're not buffing B!Lyn and Reinhardt (as if they need it to destroy everyone) but that's obvious.

[Arcanite]

7 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Oh no, I know blade tomes are fine as are, but I was just saying that I'm not getting much options for upgrades. I mean, I do have units that are eligible, but they typically aren't my core team. Even Cherche and Cordelia who can make a good fourth member use brave weapons. Young Tiki is probably my highest priority upgrade with lightning breath+.

The upgrades are only good for those who need them

Obviously Cherche and Cordelia can do their best (as examples), since they have their greatest sets already. 

I gotta say though, I'm really glad I saved my Lyn!

[GinRei]

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

• Siegmund seems to be there to make a certain person from a certain interview happy and probably because Ephraim is about to have stiff competition with a certain waifu with a Distant Counter lance and an actual Spd stat,

I doubt she'll be able to fulfill his actually niche of being a buffbot, though.  That's really just a him and Eirika thing.  I see this buff as letting him actually do combat rather than just being a cheerleader and bodyguard.

6 hours ago, dragonlordsd said:

Due to how utterly sweeping the changes are, I don't think it's safe to say anything about how the meta will be shifted at this point. There are so ridiculously many new possibilities this has opened up that all we can do is wait and see.

I'd say the bigger reason we can't call the meta shift right now is because we don't even KNOW those possibilities.  I somehow doubt that this is the only effect option for Ephraim, since otherwise any raw stat buff would have to be massive to be worth an almost guaranteed double on initial hit.  So that means we know one of four or so effect possibilities, on one of a handful of weapons.  Any of these units could shift the meta.

5 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

I figured Ephraim's was already more or less overshadowed by Lancina.

For general use, yes.  For Blade teams, no.  Blade teams still want him or Eirika.

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

Seliph with an upgraded Divine Tyrfing might be a better magical tank (- Reinhardt) then Sigurd, ecxept for the speed part :/. 6 more HP and 5 more Res compared to Sigurd, but Sigurd has far more range and 5 more Speed. omg Seliph might be actually decent at something /shocked.

Also i do get now why the Smoke passives were excluded from being inheritable to healers. If any of the staves follows Sakuras Fear trend then Gravity + Spd Smoke + Atk Smoke Seal + Dazzling Staff Aoeing everything and restricting their movement to 1 would be a nightmare for every team to face oO

Sigurd still has his B skill, which frees up his seal slot, free distance counter (saving rare SI fodder), and access to horse buffs.  Seliph won't be useless, but he's going to take a beating regardless.

Also, Sigurd's best IVs have -Res, so I don't think that part really matters here.

1 minute ago, Arcanite said:

I gotta say though, I'm really glad I saved my Lyn!

I rerolled in the beginning to get my Lyn, so I'm just hoping she isn't near the bottom of my sword barrel after this.

[Rezzy]

I'm kinda bummed that it appears Gem Weapons aren't included in the refinery.  They aren't OP by any means, but they are often the best weapon choice for units without access to a Legendary weapon or the Atk to use a Brave weapon.  I guess my Titania won't be getting an upgrade after all.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

2 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I'm kinda bummed that it appears Gem Weapons aren't included in the refinery.  They aren't OP by any means, but they are often the best weapon choice for units without access to a Legendary weapon or the Atk to use a Brave weapon.  I guess my Titania won't be getting an upgrade after all.

At worst, would you be able to give her a killing axe to refine to a slayer, then refine again? It'll take a bit of investment, but I think it'd be worthwhile.