SF Official - FE Games Opinion Poll (Sheet in OP)

[Slumber]

4 minutes ago, Tuvy2 said:

Every other poll I've seen shows FE 4 as the most popular, mostly because of how good the story is. Though, now that I think about it, PoR is loved by a lot of people, I don't really get why though.

While I don't think it's the best FE game in any particular area, PoR is above average(For the series) in most areas. Difficulty aside, I don't think it hits any noticeable lows.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Slumber

[Zasplach]

None of the results seem that terribly surprising to me, my votes were mostly based on how many times I've replayed a game or will replay a game if the game is pretty knew (like Echoes) because I generally like all the games so it probably skewed some of my results.

[TheGoodHoms]

The poll looks like it's turning out the way I was expecting, but I'm taking it with a grain of salt because the poll is based on voluntary response which by nature will produce somewhat skewed results. I'm not saying doing this was a bad idea or that it was done poorly, I'm just saying I'm not taking this as the absolute truth. Unless we some how get every Fire Emblem fan on the internet to participate.

[De Geso]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

I'm not talking about how fast the game moves as a whole, I'm talking about how the game progression feels. Character progression feels slow as dirt, and even compared to FE1, a good chunk of character growth rates are actually lower. The game is one of the shortest in the franchise, but it feels like it takes forever.

The problem with the WT in SD is that IS didn't bother to change how often certain weapon types appear. After a certain point, virtually no enemy axe units start showing up. It almost completely comes down to lances and occasionally swords.

Gaiden chapters are content you're not getting. It shouldn't matter if they exist to "help noobs". There are full characters, items and chapters that are gated off if you don't kill your characters. It almost becomes some kind of meta game to determine who the most expendable units in your army are. It should say a lot that this is the first and ONLY time they ever tried to do this.

There's a difference between "letting you use your imagination" and "flatout not developing about 80% of the cast because they get no dialogue". In 1990, this was a result of the NES being a very limited console that could only handle so much data. By the time of the SNES, J/RPG writers actually had room to write dialogue for characters that developed their personalities. Bringing this aspect of the NES to the DS was not a good move. Even if you don't like stories, plenty of people do, and would have liked it if characters were given stuff to do in SD.

That's fair about the gaidens, but regardless I like the mechanic fine. I think the variance in playthroughs is appreciated. IS probably hasn't done it again because of people complaining about it.

Also that WT point isn't really different from a lot of FE games. In several circumstances the amount of axe users is lower through the end of the game. Granted, it's more extreme in Shadow Dragon, but it's still a common occurrence.

I never said I didn't like stories, I said they are unnecessary for my enjoyment of a game (and should be for most people - the story-centric direction that the industry as a whole has been heading in has led to a menagerie of walking simulators and otherwise non-games that are praised because "the story's good"). If a game has a good story it can be a fine supplement to a game, but the main focus in any discussion regarding video games as games (so not vehicles for a story) should be about the core gameplay and design. This poll is about FE games, not FE stories.

If this were an opinion poll about the story of Fire Emblem games, I wouldn't be bothered at all about SD's rating. In this case, though, I think that the game is underappreciated because people over-value story and other supplementary stuff while ignoring how good the core gameplay of SD actually is.

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Doesn't change the fact that IS made a plethora of bad design choices when it comes to Shadow Dragon, from where I'm standing. Also, I personally found Shadow Dragon's writing as impressive as the rest of the game itself - Not.

If you aren't going to actually say what you're talking about, why say anything at all?

Edited November 16, 2017 by YouSquiddinMe

[Shadow Mir]

18 minutes ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

That's fair about the gaidens, but regardless I like the mechanic fine. I think the variance in playthroughs is appreciated. IS probably hasn't done it again because of people complaining about it.

Also that WT point isn't really different from a lot of FE games. In several circumstances the amount of axe users is lower through the end of the game. Granted, it's more extreme in Shadow Dragon, but it's still a common occurrence.

I never said I didn't like stories, I said they are unnecessary for my enjoyment of a game (and should be for most people - the story-centric direction that the industry as a whole has been heading in has led to a menagerie of walking simulators and otherwise non-games that are praised because "the story's good"). If a game has a good story it can be a fine supplement to a game, but the main focus in any discussion regarding video games as games (so not vehicles for a story) should be about the core gameplay and design. This poll is about FE games, not FE stories.

If this were an opinion poll about the story of Fire Emblem games, I wouldn't be bothered at all about SD's rating. In this case, though, I think that the game is underappreciated because people over-value story and other supplementary stuff while ignoring how good the core gameplay of SD actually is.

If you aren't going to actually say what you're talking about, why say anything at all?

I'll be frank - I don't really care that much about game stories either, but I just cannot defend Shadow Dragon's not even attempting to modernize the game. Its keeping the NESisms intact just affects everything else, including the core gameplay, negatively.

Slumber happened to point out everything wrong with Shadow Dragon (which I happen to agree with), and I didn't feel like reiterating his point. Also, this reminds me - Shadow Dragon happens to have two characters that are exclusive to Normal mode; yet another facet of questionable design the game has. Literally no other Fire Emblem game locks you out of units just because you're not playing on a certain difficulty.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[X-Naut]

6 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'll be frank - I don't really care that much about game stories either, but I just cannot defend Shadow Dragon's not even attempting to modernize the game. Its keeping the NESisms intact just affects everything else, including the core gameplay, negatively.

Slumber happened to point out everything wrong with Shadow Dragon (which I happen to agree with), and I didn't feel like reiterating his point. Also, this reminds me - Shadow Dragon happens to have two characters that are exclusive to Normal mode; yet another facet of questionable design the game has. Literally no other Fire Emblem game locks you out of units just because you're not playing on a certain difficulty.

Karla and Farina would like to have a word with you.

And I don't know why you're single out those two when the other new additions are much worse. Athena isn't that bad but the others require nothing short of mass suicide to get.

[Shadow Mir]

1 minute ago, X-Naut said:

Karla and Farina would like to have a word with you.

And I don't know why you're single out those two when the other new additions are much worse. Athena isn't that bad but the others require nothing short of mass suicide to get.

They only require being on Hector's tale - if they were only available on Hector Normal specifically, that's when I'd raise an eyebrow.

I mentioned Frey and Norne specifically because complaints about the others requiring slaughtering your units to access were already levied.

[Noni]

19 minutes ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

This poll is about FE games, not FE stories.

The Story is part of the Game. It is not in a Book that is seperate from the Video Game. Of course it isn't the only Part, which is why Conquest still gets a B from me.

And since a Poll practically asks the participants to use their own Values to judge the Games, every Judgement is valid, wether someones gives Conquest an A, because he isn't valueing the Story at all or gives Shadow an F, because he only values the story. The Average Score is than an Average of all the Values that the different participants have.

I was pretty lenient. Shadow Dragon and Revelation got a C. Blazing Sword and Path of Radiance got an A. The Rest that I played(FE8, FE10, FE13, the other FE14 Pathes and FE15) got a B. It really hurted me, to give POR a better Score than RD, because I find it a bit bland in Comparison. That said, it does a perfectly fine job in setting up the story of RD, while RD has Problems with executing that Story and it doesn't have the balancing Issues of RD.

[ping]

13 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'll be frank - I don't really care that much about game stories either, but I just cannot defend Shadow Dragon's not even attempting to modernize the game. Its keeping the NESisms intact just affects everything else, including the core gameplay, negatively.

Dude, SD introduced reclassing. You could maybe cite "faithful in the wrong aspects", but even that is a matter of opinion. "Not even attempting to modernize" is plain wrong.

Anyway, I apologize for giving extremely boring answers - all B or C (for the games I've played, which is 6-12). I find FE as a series very consistent, in a good way when it comes to gameplay quality, and in a ambiguous way when it comes to storytelling. Even the games that I would say I like the least (which would be 7 and 11) are still games I enjoyed a lot, but at the same time, my favourites (6 and 9) both still have some very noticeable flaws. In a 1-10 scale, I'd probably vote between 6.5 and 9, fwiw.

[Shadow Mir]

19 minutes ago, ping said:

Dude, SD introduced reclassing. You could maybe cite "faithful in the wrong aspects", but even that is a matter of opinion. "Not even attempting to modernize" is plain wrong.

Anyway, I apologize for giving extremely boring answers - all B or C (for the games I've played, which is 6-12). I find FE as a series very consistent, in a good way when it comes to gameplay quality, and in a ambiguous way when it comes to storytelling. Even the games that I would say I like the least (which would be 7 and 11) are still games I enjoyed a lot, but at the same time, my favourites (6 and 9) both still have some very noticeable flaws. In a 1-10 scale, I'd probably vote between 6.5 and 9, fwiw.

Okay, I could've worded that better, but still, my point was that it was just too faithful to the original; also, while it introduced reclassing, I'm not fond of how it was handled in SD.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Magical Glace]

I think the problem with FE11 and faithfulness isn't so much the gameplay as it is the story and characterization.  FE11 actually changes/updates quite a bit in the gameplay department compared to FE1.  But the story is just such barebones NES stuff (even if it's written well) and the characters have literally no personality in a lot of cases, the game gets dragged down and the simplistic gameplay becomes more noticeable.  

That, and the ways new maps are accessed is stupid, with the prologue being locked to Normal (why) and Gaidens that require slaughtering most of your army (double why).  But that's not really an issue of faithfulness since that's all new content.

 

Anyway

I didn't give out any perfect scores, and I felt like most of the time I was saying "average."  My favorite FE is Binding Blade, and it's definitely not perfect.  There were some I deemed below average (Awakening I think I gave the worst possible score to) but none were higher than the second highest option.

[ping]

Well, it also has the weapon triangle, promotions for almost all character classes, skippable enemy phases, multiple difficulty levels, actual writing (relatively little, but many people like the style), character supports, weapon ranks instead of (randomly growing) weapon levels, high-ranged ballistae, individual and collective display of enemy ranges, XP through staff use, gaiden chapters (whose unlock criteria are shit, but that's not relevant to the Faithfulness argument), and well-used two screens.

4 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

But the story is just such barebones NES stuff (even if it's written well) and the characters have literally no personality in a lot of cases [...].

tbh, I would reduce that to the second half of the statement. The story is pretty much FE standard (Lord loses and flees country, travels across the continent while gathering allies, takes down the oppressor, suddenly dragon), but the lack of characterization outside of Marth's inner circle is something that puts many FE players off. I mean, Hardin has like three lines, and in the sequel you'd think that he was Marth's most trusted compagnon, given how disbelieving Marth was when Jagen figures out what's going on. Perhaps, since other games tend to take FE1/11's basic plot and add some kind of variety or twist to it (like FE9's racism, or the connection between lord and evil empire in BR), it feels more barren than it is.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Can I add to the SD criticisms the absence of a rescue mechanic? Even with a natural 7 move, having to drag Marth from village to village and throne because he's the only one who can visit/seize is a chore. If they at least fixed the village thing (some dialogue tweaks could make it work easily), then it wouldn't be so bad.

Like any FE, there are also character balances issues, except unlike say Conquest where there was a general effort to try to give everyone good pros and cons (save for like Cammy and maybe Xandy), SD doesn't have anything comparable. Julian is just plain better than Rickard, Arran and Midia are equals to Abel, Cain, and Hardin only with effective weapon forges. Those are the levelers of SD, since enemies are often overwhelmingly Cavs and Armors- another problem.

13 minutes ago, ping said:

Dude, SD introduced reclassing.

True, SD did introduce this radical now beloved mechanic, it does have that going for it. It also gave us those Weapon Rank Bonuses (eg. +2Mt with a B Sword rank) designed to make the WT more relevant after it kinda wasn't in RD or PoR. SD did try to make some innovations and update itself, but it didn't do enough.

 

As for plot- well I don't have a Google account so I couldn't answer, but the questions didn't ask about individual aspects of the games, only the whole. Understandably, those who play FE for gameplay just ignored the story when voting, which could explain CQ. 

SD's plot? Marth invades again and again, Medeus never really taking the offensive despite Marth roaming the world. This isn't exclusive to SD admitted, Gen 2 FE4 has passive Julius and Manfroy, while Ashnard is passive in FE9 (but at least he has an excuse for it- buying time for more chaos generation and to provoke Gallia and Goldoa). 

Back to SD, the plot is simple, traditional, minimalistic, little to mess up, but little to do in the first place. It is a Marth soliloquy since few others (Nyna, Malledus) feature, and they are generally passive to him. Again, this is not exclusive to SD, FE4 Gen 2 is something of a Seliph soliloquy from what I can tell, while FE6 is a Roy one to some degree, but SD coming in a later era, makes it come off as worse than it is to those older games. FE7 and FE10 and probably FE15 from what I hear, by comparison have good ensembles in the main story.

Marth's noble, reserved personality and subtle development over the course of things doesn't bother me though, that's fine. The writing of what is there is fine too.

[Shadow Mir]

10 minutes ago, ping said:

Well, it also has the weapon triangle, promotions for almost all character classes, skippable enemy phases, multiple difficulty levels, actual writing (relatively little, but many people like the style), character supports, weapon ranks instead of (randomly growing) weapon levels, high-ranged ballistae, individual and collective display of enemy ranges, XP through staff use, gaiden chapters (whose unlock criteria are shit, but that's not relevant to the Faithfulness argument), and well-used two screens.

The implementation of the weapon triangle is honestly more of a negative, if you ask me...

Edited November 16, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Magical Glace]

14 minutes ago, ping said:

tbh, I would reduce that to the second half of the statement. The story is pretty much FE standard (Lord loses and flees country, travels across the continent while gathering allies, takes down the oppressor, suddenly dragon), but the lack of characterization outside of Marth's inner circle is something that puts many FE players off. I mean, Hardin has like three lines, and in the sequel you'd think that he was Marth's most trusted compagnon, given how disbelieving Marth was when Jagen figures out what's going on. Perhaps, since other games tend to take FE1/11's basic plot and add some kind of variety or twist to it (like FE9's racism, or the connection between lord and evil empire in BR), it feels more barren than it is.

Fair enough.  

I think the general consensus on the game (and certainly my opinion on it): It's a fine game on its own, but it could be so much more.  People's problems with FE11 is less what it is and more what it could have been but isn't.

[gone]

So we're going there. Interesting 

I'm very pleased with those results. Especially with Sacred Stones - I love this game  to death, glad to see I'm not the only one. Revelation! Sorry not Sorry - you're a total mess.

Edited November 16, 2017 by fOrEiGn sOUl

[Jedi]

2 hours ago, TheGoodHoms said:

The poll looks like it's turning out the way I was expecting, but I'm taking it with a grain of salt because the poll is based on voluntary response which by nature will produce somewhat skewed results. I'm not saying doing this was a bad idea or that it was done poorly, I'm just saying I'm not taking this as the absolute truth. Unless we some how get every Fire Emblem fan on the internet to participate.

Yeah my intent, was just to see what Serenes thought.

[ping]

31 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The implementation of the weapon triangle is honestly more of a negative, if you ask me...

So? Matter of opinion aside, that doesn't make it less of a change, both with regards to Dark Dragon and Radiant Dawn. The two DS games have a very unique gameplay, not only through mechanisms, but also because it features fewer, more powerful enemies than its predecessors. You just move the goalposts if you switch from "too few changes" to "I didn't like the changes it did".

28 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Fair enough.  

I think the general consensus on the game (and certainly my opinion on it): It's a fine game on its own, but it could be so much more.  People's problems with FE11 is less what it is and more what it could have been but isn't.

Fair enough yourself. ;) I can agree with that.

[UNLEASH IT]

I'm surprised at how positive the reception to Echoes is here, despite it having many of the same faults in gameplay that Awakening and Revelation were skewered for.

[Shadow Mir]

37 minutes ago, ping said:

So? Matter of opinion aside, that doesn't make it less of a change, both with regards to Dark Dragon and Radiant Dawn. The two DS games have a very unique gameplay, not only through mechanisms, but also because it features fewer, more powerful enemies than its predecessors. You just move the goalposts if you switch from "too few changes" to "I didn't like the changes it did".

I'm not saying that I didn't like the changes it did - in fact, I don't mind most of them - I'm just saying that the implementation of the weapon triangle in SD was not thought out at all, and that I dislike its addition as a result.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[donkeykhang]

Interesting that some find Shadow Dragon to be slow. Honestly, I find the 10 games that come before it feel even slower.

As for these ratings, I'm having difficulty deciding whether or not to include nostalgia in my selections, i feel there would be lots of Cs thrown around if I weren't lenient.

[Dandy Druid]

I only gave PoR the "Fantastic" rating. It's not my favorite in the series, but it does a lot of things right, and does less wrong than other entries. It was polished. I hope the next installment is at or better than its caliber.

[Renkindle]

17 hours ago, Euklyd said:

he's not asking who married the 10-y/o dragons so idt the FBI is toooo interested in the data

...or Lissa (and Elise)? Don't mind me, I'm just casually kicking this Awakening file under the table...

[Zapp Branniglenn]

18 hours ago, Jedi said:

Ah yes, you caught me red handed! I'm looking for crooks who happen to play FE games

Well you found them. Some of these guys are evading their vote taxes by hiding votes in offshore Thraccia accounts. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Glennstavos

[Slumber]

5 hours ago, UNLEASH IT said:

I'm surprised at how positive the reception to Echoes is here, despite it having many of the same faults in gameplay that Awakening and Revelation were skewered for.

Most complaints I see about Awakening is that the characters are kind of 1 dimensional and gimmicky, you're given TOO much freedom, the story falls apart, it's way too fanservicey and that the map design is bad/simple. I don't think Echoes shares the bolded problems. Characters generally aren't defined by a single gimmick(Deen and Faye being obvious exceptions), the game's a lot more structured and set in how you play it(IE you pick a classline and you're stuck in it unless you do the DF loop or have a Villager's Fork), the story probably falls apart for some, but I don't think it's nearly as radical of a shift as Awakening after Gangrel, and it keeps fanservice to a bare-minimum for modern FE. You get Sonya, but that's about it.

It does have bad map design, so that's where I'd compare the two. Outside of that, nah.

Revelation, on the otherhand, is often critiqued for its abysmal story, absolutely TERRIBLE map gimmicks, and just the worst unit balance in the entire franchise. I can't say really any of those reflect the complaints of Echoes. You get Atlas, who is still a villager when he joins in the mid-game, but it's nothing compared to getting an unpromoted unit that is lower than level 10 after the mid-game. And ones that aren't even Nino archetypes. If you squint enough "bland maps" and "gimmicky maps" kind of look like similar complaints, but they're really not. Most people, I'd imagine, would rather play flat, empty Echoes maps than do most of Revelations' convoluted, slow maps. Could just be me, but it seems like a common complaint for Rev.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Slumber