My Opinion -- Months Later

[Mandokarla]

I feel like this game is one of my favorites in the franchise for a few different reasons. The presentation, from the voice acting (ranging from decent to really good), to the MUCH better visuals, to the musical score that makes my knees weak, was incredible. The gameplay, while having a few undeniable flaws (the only one of which that actually annoys me being swamps. I hate the damn swamps), is thoroughly enjoyable to me, and there is enough replay value built in with the villagers and the free dlc to make me want to try different things. Hard felt like a rewarding experience for almost every chapter (except Nuibaba's Abode. God how I hated it), and while I took a break after beating the main story -- and as a result have not delved into the short-but-interesting postgame -- I am excited to do so now. I'm just starting a second playthrough, on Normal this time, because I want to be able to slow down and experience the narrative (which I find to simple, but effective and well told. Yes, I'm aware of the plot's weak points, I just don't mind them as much). 

I also just bought, played, and enjoyed the Rise of the Deliverance DLC for the first time tonight. On one hand, holy shit I feel so much more for Fernand than I already did, and while the maps were simple and not inherently interesting, the story and character buildup around them was what I cared about, and I feel like they delivered. They delivered so strongly, in fact, that I honestly think this DLC should have been the game's prologue by default, but hey. 

I find myself putting this game in my top three FE games, because I am generally a story focused gamer, and this is very much a presentation and narrative focused fire emblem game. Can't claim open fields are game-mechanics heavy map designs, so it's not a gameplay focus. I appreciate SoV greatly, and I hope it emboldens IS to make more Echoes games, and make the small changes and tweaks to the old games (FE4? Please?). 

[Armagon]

I feel pretty much the same way. I've done two playthroughs of the game, both on Hard. The cast is among my favorite in the series, and i even like some controversial characters like Faye. Map design honestly wasn't an issue because i had seen worse (FE4, FE13), though i did find the desert levels to be bad. I didn't have any issue with the swamp maps though, because Palla just carries everyone there, pretty easily. Stuff like the Turnwheel, Arts, and village and dungeon exploration is stuff i'd like to see return.

Story-wise, it's definitely my favorite. Yes, it has it's flaws, but honestly, i don't see those flaws as dealbreakers. Alm may somewhat go against the themes of the game, but his personality is great, so who cares? I like Celica too, though looking back on it, she shouldn't have been made into a damsel in distress near the end. Some of the non-Lords being story relevant definitely made this story good for me. The game being fully voiced really did deepen the experience.

The music is pretty fantastic. Rank it among the top 5 best FE OSTs and Twilight of the Gods is the best final battle theme imo.

I don't like some parts of SoV though. The sidequests felt pointless imo. Didn't like how Barons were locked at 4 Mov. Desert maps suck. I don't like Deen and Fernand. Aside from the Rise of Deliverence and Cipher Companions DLC, the DLC was pointless. Some characters can't Support with each other even though they should (why can't Gray Support with Faye and Kliff?).

Overall, SoV gets a solid 9/10 in my book.

[Mandokarla]

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

I feel pretty much the same way. I've done two playthroughs of the game, both on Hard. The cast is among my favorite in the series, and i even like some controversial characters like Faye. Map design honestly wasn't an issue because i had seen worse (FE4, FE13), though i did find the desert levels to be bad. I didn't have any issue with the swamp maps though, because Palla just carries everyone there, pretty easily. Stuff like the Turnwheel, Arts, and village and dungeon exploration is stuff i'd like to see return.

Story-wise, it's definitely my favorite. Yes, it has it's flaws, but honestly, i don't see those flaws as dealbreakers. Alm may somewhat go against the themes of the game, but his personality is great, so who cares? I like Celica too, though looking back on it, she shouldn't have been made into a damsel in distress near the end. Some of the non-Lords being story relevant definitely made this story good for me. The game being fully voiced really did deepen the experience.

The music is pretty fantastic. Rank it among the top 5 best FE OSTs and Twilight of the Gods is the best final battle theme imo.

I don't like some parts of SoV though. The sidequests felt pointless imo. Didn't like how Barons were locked at 4 Mov. Desert maps suck. I don't like Deen and Fernand. Aside from the Rise of Deliverence and Cipher Companions DLC, the DLC was pointless. Some characters can't Support with each other even though they should (why can't Gray Support with Faye and Kliff?).

Overall, SoV gets a solid 9/10 in my book.

Have you viewed the Memory Prisms? They VERY much made me appreciate Fernand more. I sympathize with him. But yeah, Deen is boring, meh. 

I kinda agree with the sidequests, but I felt like they were mostly there to give you more coins for forging, which I did enjoy playing around with. I feel like Barons are bad for the same reason Generals are bad (in my opinion) in pretty much every FE i've played -- they are slow, their defense isn't high enough to make up for it (especially considering in SoV Saber wound up having only a few points lower def than Forsythe) and they just don't feel good to use. If you gave Barons immunity to terrain movement penalty modifiers (for some reason) then, in SoV specifically, it would be a bit better. 

[Armagon]

55 minutes ago, Mandokarla said:

Have you viewed the Memory Prisms?

I have but my issue with Fernand isn't that he hates commoners. Is that he betrays Zofia literally because Alm was made leader of the Deliverance.

[Mandokarla]

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I have but my issue with Fernand isn't that he hates commoners. Is that he betrays Zofia literally because Alm was made leader of the Deliverance.

I agree that Alm being the tipping point is a little...much, but the way I see it he had a lot of things destroying his faith in Zofia before that point, and Alm just represented the final death knell of the nation he loved.

[Alastor15243]

I feel it was a major disappointment gameplaywise after Conquest. I loved a return to pairupless gameplay and I found the magic and skill system to be an interesting change of pace, but this game just does not have much strategic depth outside of speedruns, the class balance is atrocious, the hardest difficulty is an utter joke even without grinding, and the fact that the game intentionally throws unavoidable reinforcements at you is infuriating as all hell if you're trying to do a no-grind run.

On 11/19/2017 at 11:20 AM, Mandokarla said:

I agree that Alm being the tipping point is a little...much, but the way I see it he had a lot of things destroying his faith in Zofia before that point, and Alm just represented the final death knell of the nation he loved.

Yeah. The way I see it, from Fernand's point of view, he refused to put the fate of Zofia in the hands of a member of the savage masses, because the last time they "came together and made a big decision", it was to kill his entire family for something that wasn't even his fault.

[Mandokarla]

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I feel it was a major disappointment gameplaywise after Conquest. I loved a return to pairupless gameplay and I found the magic and skill system to be an interesting change of pace, but this game just does not have much strategic depth outside of speedruns, the class balance is atrocious, the hardest difficulty is an utter joke even without grinding, and the fact that the game intentionally throws unavoidable reinforcements at you is infuriating as all hell if you're trying to do a no-grind run.

I see where you're coming from, and you aren't at all wrong, but I am a Story-First kind of gamer most of the time, so if the story pulls me in without completely sacrificing gameplay, I'm happy. Considering Sacred Stones is my favorite FE game, and it is easy as piss in every way except for Ephraim!Hard No Grind Ironman (which still isn't super hard, but it's a lot of fun), you can see where I stand on things.  That said, I am in the midst of Conquest Lunatic, and I feel like Conquest Hard is the most balanced and most well made gameplay entry in the entire franchise. I play CQ to be challenged, anything else to relax and have fun. CQ lunatic is starting to give me problems (i'm at the Furry Genocide), but it is a very well made game. 

[Hawkwing]

If Gaiden was The Adventure of Link, Echoes: Shadows of Valentia is Skyward Sword. I love both SoV and SS to death, but its not hard to see why people both love and hate these games.

First off, my history of the game. I was hooked the moment I saw the game revealed in the January Nintendo Direct. From the story showing that both sides of the conflict were going to be gray, to finally getting a chance to play an older game in the series, to the awesome combat animations showing that units would run into battle and having more visually interesting dodge and counter animations than the previous 3DS games, and than the fact that it was coming out on the same week as my birthday, all combined to make me so excited for the game that I almost completely forgot about Fire Emblem: Warriors or even Heroes! Almost immediently, I searched for any and all information that I could about the game, from visiting wikipedia and tv tropes, to finding and reading a helpful lets play of the game twice (which taught me ahead of time about many of the quirks and mechanics of the original game that were), to even temporarily playing the game on an online emulator once I learned how to work one (which is a fun story in and of itself of how I managed to find two online emulator sites, but that's for a different day. Speaking of which, I couldn't save the game(s) I was playing, which I considered a fair trade off considering I was playing these games for free). In fact, it was in this way that I first discovered Serenes Forest, which provided well analyzed and consistent information on the game, eventually leading to me discovering their (in)famous forums and eventually becoming a member.

As for the game itself, I love how it manages to both be a very solid strategy game on its own, while still being both a Fire Emblem game first and foremost, while still deviating from the established norm.I loved both the things that got a lot of attention, such as the versatility of the villager classes, how magic cost health to cast, Mila's Turnwheel, and how class promotion worked, and the little things, such as the AI retreating at low HP, to the one round RNG, to how the erratic growth rates made each playthrough a little different. I love how you can field everyone, and even if their growths haven't been impressive, they still have a use. I'm also impressed at how well they balanced the dungeons, since I could see them accidently making grinding too easy or too hard, but instead they nailed the balance where they're beneficial, but not game-breaking. You can tell that a lot of heart and effort went into this game, and it shows.

About the only gripes I have with this game gameplay-wise is some elements of the maps and summoning. I actually don't mind the map design of this game, both because I've never really cared that much for map design with any game, but also because the maps actually match the kind of fight you're in. In this game, you have to earn every step of ground when invading a castle or fort, enduring the defenses that the enemy throws at you, and slowly but surely breaking through. It seems like you're trying to conquer an actual fortified building, not a level with castle aesthetics. Same for the fights in the forests; It seems as if you're actually fighting in forest rather than on a map with a few trees. However, they really needed to add some different maps in place of the copied ones from the original game, as Gaiden only reused maps because of hardware limitations, and while I find the desert maps to be cathardic (seeing Wolf (The archer fort boss (they missed an opportunity for a Star Fox joke/reference there))or Grieth hit the dust after all the trouble they put me through was worth all the pain it took to get to that moment), the swamp maps can rot in hell. I also think that there needed to be a harsher punishment on summoners for, well, summoning, as while I know some tricks to kill them before things get nasty, I know they have been a legitimate grievance for many players.

Storywise... I personally enjoyed it, but it was both a fun and saddening experience to see which areas of the story SoV improved, and which ones Gaiden handled better originally. I love the overall story, and it is presented GLORIOUSLY. I never before though how much voice acting could add to the characters and experience, and speaking of which, this is a very likable cast. Considering that the most you had to go out of the game for each characters personality was their recruitment quote, death quote, and ending (and yet they still had more personality and character than all of the units in Marth's games), and to a lesser extent appearance and stats, it was fun seeing which interpretations I personally made compared and contrasted with how they appear in the remake, and it's amazing (and sad) that some of the side characters here have as much (if not more) presence and personality as many of the series lords themselves. I also like how the story manages to be surprisingly dark, even in its NES days, without becoming edgy or brooding.

Sadly, if you've look at any of the story threads on this site, the story isn't perfect and if having your flaw's be obvious is a flaw, than this game has that problem. Celica and Alm's meeting felt forced, which is sad as it's a big and well-done moment in the original game, and I thought that the reason you could only recruit Sonia or Deen was handled better in the original game as well, as in Gaiden, according to Jesse, they hate each other, but they hate Grieth even more, but neither of them are willing to backstab them as long as the other is alive. This adds backstory to both characters that's up to the players imagination as too why Sonia and Deen aren't on good terms, and the whole backstabbing conundrum is actually pretty clever if you think about it. While in SoV, it seemed like "if you beat one, the other may or may not attack you"... it was pointless drama that didn't pay off or go anywhere. Also, I wish that Alm's recklessness appeared more, as his flaws aren't really shown as well or as often. I also would have liked to have known his thoughts on people assuming he would become king after the conflict was over, or after he unintentionally became a broken Aesop. We could have had some very interesting conversations, and it would have analyzed and strengthed Alm's character, but alas, it is not so.

The big thing about the games flaws, though, is that they're either going to bother you to no end, or you simply won't care. I remember rolling my eyes, face-palming, or not caring about some games story problem and moving on, while some of these moments have greatly and legitimately bothered others. It will depend on the person if the story problems are just minor hiccups or actual grieviences. Same thing with the gameplay, you are either going to very much love or very much hate certian mechanics, which is why I made the comparison to Skyward Sword earlier. I actually think recommending this game altogether is the hardest problem I have with it, as I will have no idea if I'm going to give someone their favorite game, or if they'll think they wasted money on the game.

This took me two fricken hours to write, and I had to go into detail about every single thing I enjoyed or disliked about the game, I'd probably give the longest article on this website. As I've said multiple times earlier, I loved this game since the moment I've seen it revealed, and so many of the things I've enjoyed clicked with me so well that I honestly have a difficult time finding things I didn't enjoy. It's a game that has a lot of heart and care put into it, and its greatest strength and biggest flaw is that all of the gameplay mechanics and much of the story will rely on personal preference, which leads to something being either passionately loved or prominently hated.

Spoiler

This is a little off-topic, but is anyone else interested in seeing a sequel or expansion pack to this game? Storywise, I honestly want to see how Alm and Celica handle being King and Queen of a United Valentia, and how they handle the rebellions that pop up. I could see that being a great deconstruction of the games current story, and it would give the writers and opportunity to fix some of the problems the original story had. Gameplaywise, can we take the mechanics of this game and give them some solid level design, and maybe add some new classes and mechanics? I could see an excellent continuation of this game, though I wonder if anyone else would want another round with this world and its characters and mechanics.

 

[Seazas]

Actually from the DLC, Alm was Fernand's breaking point he already started to doubt the Deliverance when they went against his ideals and morals when they put innocent people hostage threatening to kill them. He clearly had a problem with that with his dialogue. 

[Etrurian emperor]

My opinion of the game has largely the same ever since its launch. I'm still feeling very positive of the game and I tend to go lenient on its flaws.  But that's also a matter on how I judge games. I don't think big flaws necessary have to be a deal breaker if there are strong positive points to compensate for those flaws. Celica's last act is a little dumb but throughout the rest of the story Celica is great so she deserves a bit of a pass. Same with Alm, he's a great lord so I forgive his mister perfect tendencies. I think the game also deserves some lenience for being a NES game. Echoes made enough strives to modernize itself so I can forgive the leftovers like most females being damsels or Rudolfs plot not holding up, of course a conspiracy from a 20 year old game with barely any text doesn't hold up. They made a good effort and that's good enough for me. 

Echoes did a lot of new stuff that future fire emblem games should learn from. The full voice acting and minor characters actively commenting on the story are great new features that really help the game's presentation and the turnwheel is a very convenient addition. 

The games stumbles at times because its to faithful but even those things helps Echoes stand out. I wouldn't want all future games to have the Echoes gameplay but for just this one game it can feel as a breath of fresh air. Echoes plays differently and both the good and bad mechanics ensures that it does. 

I'm less forgiving for new additions that don't work though. Fernand wasn't chained to NES limitations like Rudolf was so he had no excuse for being such garbage. His tale isn't tragic because he was always in 100% jerkmode, his conflict with Clive wasn't a conflict because he kept making absurd statements like commoners not needing to be rewarded for their contribution. Fernand just never had any legitimate point and his extremism makes the Begnion senators seem reasonable in comparison. He gets better in the dlc but locking the sole redeeming aspects of a supposedly tragic characters behind paid DLC is kinda scummy. Berkut started a lot stronger then Fernand and he's got his moments but at the end his plotline kinda failed too. 

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by Etrurian emperor