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Weapon Refinery and it's Beneficiaries


Zeo
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So, we all know the Refinery is coming and based on what we saw, generic weapons (Silver Lance+ as an example) gain the MT of Legendary weapons with a boost and can also boost a certain stat.

  • ATK boosts MT by 3 for normal (silver) weapons 2 for legendary ones based on the stream.
  • SPD boosts that stat by 3 and ATK by 1.
  • DEF/RES boosts each respective stat by 4 and boosts ATK by 1 (for silver weapons) or 0 for legendaries.
  • All boosts give +5 HP. for normal weapons (3 for particular legendaries based on Ephraim's prf?)

Based on this we can assume it scales for tomes and we'll be seeing 16 MT Legendary tomes and 16 MT (ATK boosted) Generic tomes and their respective boosts. We can't say how this will affect Killing Weapons, Slayers and the like but it's still all speculation at this point. This is more of a topic of possibility and opinion (like most others) with a question at it's head.

As you know, we have legendary weapon users who dominate with their weapons, fast and powerful or slow and devastating users who can run Brave Sword+ and Wo Dao+ as well as the Blade tome favorites and Raven tome optimals, but what about the units in the middle? The ones that don't fulfill any specific role best? For me I'm just going to toss out an example.

LillinaBolganone++ (ATK Boost)

Spoiler

Tharja and Katarina are better blade tome users, Celica has her legendary tome, Leo is a Cav mage filling a unique role, Arvis is the best debuffer and Sophia is a better raven mage. Lillina stands in between with Sanaki as better units than Henry/Ray/S!Leo but more or less inferior to the otherwise mentioned mages at the height of their potential. She can be a nuclear explosion blade tome user, but Tharja performs the role better and is 20k feathers cheaper.

Lillina's tome with the ATK boost would bring it up to 16 MT, if she's +ATK and runs DB3 That's 59 ATK without any form of hone or spur. That's pretty ridiculous nuclear firepower and that's without the boost of an ATK seal which would take her up to 62 Base ATK on initiation. Obviously she can get better results running a blade tome, but she gets this out of her base tome.

Who do you think will benefit most from the forge boosts? Legendary weapon users included.

 

Edited by Zeo
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2 hours ago, Zeo said:
  • ATK boosts MT by 3 for normal (silver) weapons 2 for legendary ones based on the stream.
  • SPD/DEF/RES boosts each respective stat by 4 and boosts ATK by 1 (for silver weapons) or 0 for legendaries.
  • All boosts give +5 HP.

The Spd refinement only provides +3 Spd, at least for the Silver Lance, shown in the video. The “Effect” refinement (placeholder name) for Siegmund only added +3 HP.

~

As for the question...anyone who doesn’t mind running an refinable weapon in the first place, imo. Assuming you can refine an inherited weapon (correct me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that you can’t), Wo Dao and Lightning Breath users strike me as two of the big winners.

I personally expect to get good use out of a refined Sealife Tome, which I run on Summer Corrin (she’s on a Goad Team), but most Summer Corrin users have likely outfitted her with a -Blade Tome, so I don’t see that being a widespread thing.

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I'm interested in seeing how they will eventually handle the Falchion, since it already has two permanent effects it falls more under the 'evolved' weapon category like Blazing Durandal and Urvan. Unless they swap out the Renewal effect for different effects.

I'm not sure who will improve the most, but I am looking forward to seeing what Lyn can get out of the Sol Katti, she's the first I have planned to upgrade out of the legendary weapons. I have a feeling one of the options for that will be a special -1 and a boost to Res, so that could be interesting. Or maybe instead of the special reduction it will be dragon effectiveness.

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Honestly, any buff to magic needs to be huge to compete with Litrblade, Litrraven, or Litrowl even.

Raudhrowl+ with two stacks is +0/14/4/4/4. Assuming the same pattern as Silver Lance+, Bolganone+[Atk] is +5/16/0/0/0, and Bolganone+[Spd] is +5/14/3/0/0.

Unless a unit really wants the +5 HP to run Panic Ploy, there's not much a refined Bolganone+ really does that the other options don't already do.

 

I'm currently looking forward to getting upgraded gear for my dragons and armors. Lightning Breath+[Atk] would significantly help with Lightning Breath's naturally low Mt, and it feels natural running either Slaying Lance/Axe+[Def] or Slaying Lance/Axe+[Res] on my armors.

I'm also looking forward to seeing what Sol Katti is going to get (and holding off on building Lyn until it gets released) and I really want to see what Mystletainn and Hauteclere are getting since Eldigan is now a staple of my Arena Assault line-up, and Minerva has been on my Arena defense team since forever.

 

Linde is getting Dark Aura as soon as I can afford it. The other upgrades are lower priority, though Eliwood is probably at the top of that list.

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I was talking earlier about just how fun it will be to run a +RES Seliph with Divine Tyrfing. After fiddling around with calculations, Reinhardt just can't kill him in one round. Even a +10 super buffed one. A +10 -blade!Linde can do the job I think, but only with max buffs. A -blade Olwen or Ursula might be able to do the job. Too lazy to run the calcs though. XD It takes a TON of fire power to wipe him out though. 

I know my first upgrade is going to Merric. He's getting Dark Excalibur even if I kind of like his current tome simply for his effectiveness against fliers. Bonfire will hurt even more. Granted, Dark Excalibur doesn't feel like an upgrade... His old weapon isn't bad, especially since having a magical archer means you don't have to run a colorless unit if you're worried about mostly fliers. But the +10 damage during his special will significantly help out his damage output. 

I feel like investing in the legendary weapons overall will be worthwhile, but I'll have to see what kind of effects we get. Lucius is definitely getting whatever staff catches my eye no matter what the cost. And I kind of want to upgrade Julia as well... I'm going to have to make a list and prioritize. 

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I'm really curious as to what the Guard Bow does exactly. Apparently its name in Japanese is "Distant Defense" Bow from what I remember seeing being mentioned -- correct me if I'm wrong -- and that would be really interesting. The weird thing is it would come from Assassin's Bow, so going from Daggerbreaker to Distant Def is a bit strange.

Edited by Kaden
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I am hopeing that Healers and Dagger users get the most out of the Weapon rifenement. Healers get allready a free weapon upgrade, but they can upgrade their weapons further. For Daggers i really hope they can shake of some of the stigma and become really powerfull debuff units.

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Wasn't the attack boost also minimal? just 2 more attack as the other Weapon boosts? (At least if all weapons are the same with this increase)
My A!Tiki has quite a solid attack already, so I think about giving her Def or Res boost. More bulk for her. And if I should get another B!Ike I could give her Steady breath and make Res boost on the weapon.

Also Gwendolyn and Sheena are really happy about it, with slaying weapons. At the moment I better think twice about giving Gwendolyn Berkuts lance now.

Also I still don't know about characters like Fir I want to use later on. If I should just improve her low strength or give her Res+.

For Dagger/Healer I still have to get my loved units. The first time I would think about using a healer in my core would be the day they release Tatiana.
But I hope that they extra upgrade also has a bit influence on their score, I still will use Elise and Sakura then I can. And I think that they both profit nicely.
Dagger users are the same for me, I still don't have a 5star Dagger user.

I would use Kagero/Felicia or Matthew if I had more feathers.
And such units as Matthew would maybe also gain something from more bulk.

I also saw that we can upgrade weapons who are good against Armor to slaying versions.
But I still don't know if they ever will get a chance to shine..

 

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Fae's probably going to spring for forged Lightning Breath as my only unit with a forgeable weapon on my Arena core (Tana uses Vidofnir and Lyn uses Mulagir). Arena score incoming!

After that, I'm a tad more reserved. Who do I even have that has those weapons ready? Who knows.

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2 hours ago, Stroud said:

Wasn't the attack boost also minimal? just 2 more attack as the other Weapon boosts? (At least if all weapons are the same with this increase)
 

It was +2 for Ephraim's Siegmund, but with that came a new passive. Without the passive, he would have gotten +5 attack, same as the silver lance.

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Off the top of my head:

  • Dragons will appreciate the boost from Lightning Breath+ forging.  My Adult Tiki will be a total monster enemy phase with an Atk boost and possible Def boost as well.
  • Camilla!  She has good stats overall, but her main issue is that she is a subpar Brave Axe user due to her meh attack.  She will do much better with a Slaying Axe.  She could be kind of like Nephenee on wings with a Moonbow skill equipped. 
  • As others have mentioned, Minerva and Seliph will appreciate an upgrade to their weapons.
  • Oboro, Beruka, and Selena will become slightly more usable, since Beruka will get increased damage output from Slaying Axe+ and Oboro & Selena can at least KO armors now.
  • Distant Counter Effie could become a thing with an upgraded Silver Lance+.  Slap on a Dstant Defense skill with Wary Fighter and she becomes very hard to kill.
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Assassin's Bow always interested me. It's the only weapon in the game that gives you a Breaker effect. But this one never shuts off after an HP threshold. I don't know if generic weapons will be getting extra effects, but I really want to see a bow that has Deflect Missile 3 as an effect. Archers with normal bows being able to take on brave bow users is an interaction I'd like to see, giving a niche to those bow users that are outclassed by other potential Brave and Firesweep users. 

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I'm pretty interested in what the Fujin Yumi will get. Even at launch, Pass was a pretty bad weapon passive. I kind of wonder if there will be a variant that turns it into a Close Counter weapon, opening Takumi's A-slot...?

 

It's also nice to see the horse tomes and armor weapons get buffs. They always felt criminally weak for their purposes. Though now there's the issue of 2 of those tomes being on GHB-only units still, but I'm guessing we'll be getting new units with the Keen tomes eventually.

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If I ever get him, Eldigan since I'm really curious how they'll refine Mysteltainn. I'm really hoping it's not just something dumb like +3 res, which worries me a little since skill (the stat), the crit skill, and res were its FE4 boosts. I'm hoping it'll be something like -2 cooldown, but that means 1 charge bonfire, which seems scary with his def, and might be a little much to hope for. Then again, I could be overestimating it and -2 cooldown wouldn't actually help. Probably end up being +10 damage on special.

Anyway, Seliph is a definite plus.

Michalis might actually be worth a damn again if Hauteclere's boost is good.

Jaffar, too, possibly. Deathly dagger has good effects, but low might, and his strength is so abysmal, it makes it not worth it.

Then obviously anyone who runs slaying weapons and wo dao will benefit a lot, and hopefully staff users.

2 hours ago, Clogon said:

It is already a thing. Almost every Effie you see in top tier arena is DC with either riderbane or Berkut's lance+.

I'm actually surprised more people don't run slaying lance plus. That's a 1 charge moonbow with already 57 attack.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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57 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

I'm actually surprised more people don't run slaying lance plus. That's a 1 charge moonbow with already 57 attack.

The investment cost is very high if you want any consistent return.

Slaying Lance is pretty rare since only Nephenee has it and she has only been in her debut banner so far. Distant Counter is more affordable since Hector is more widely available, but it is not exactly cheap either.

Effie or any armor unit are basically dead weight in a mixed team. Armor teams are impractical until the player is able to get enough merges on everyone to prevent ranged pony teams from appearing frequently.

In contrast, investing in ranged units is a lot cheaper and the returns are astronomically higher. Unless you are a whale, the opportunity cost is too high to not invest in cheaper and better ranged units, or even just melee infantry units.

Edited by XRay
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9 hours ago, Kaden said:

I'm really curious as to what the Guard Bow does exactly. Apparently its name in Japanese is "Distant Defense" Bow from what I remember seeing being mentioned -- correct me if I'm wrong -- and that would be really interesting. The weird thing is it would come from Assassin's Bow, so going from Daggerbreaker to Distant Def is a bit strange.

Yes, it's Japanese name is "Distant Def Bow". I'm guessing it has Distant Def 2 or Distant Def 3 built-in, more likely Distant Def 3 since I think the developers are realizing that defensive boosts need to be higher to see actual use.

Changing Daggerbreaker to Distant Def isn't too different from Excalibur changing flier effectiveness to Wo Dao's effect, Aura changing Breath of Life 2 to Hone Melee Atk 5, or Tyrfing changing Defiant Armored Blow Steady Stance 2 to Resistance +3 and first-hit Deflect Magic 2.

 

32 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

I'm actually surprised more people don't run slaying lance plus. That's a 1 charge moonbow with already 57 attack.

Moonbow is weak, especially against the typical squishy ranged attackers.

Ridersbane ensures a kill on counterattack against cavalry, and Berkut's Lance raises the threshold to one-hit kill her with magic. With Berkut's Lance, it takes 83 Atk to land a one-hit kill against Effie [=HP, =Res] (Berkut's Lance+, Distant Counter, Wary Fighter 3, Distant Def 3), 58 Atk for a two-hit kill (54 Atk with a Moonbow activation), 91 Atk for a one-hit kill at +10, and 64 Atk for a two-hit kill at +10 (59 Atk with a Moonbow activation).

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I'm very excited at the potential this might have to help units with bad attack who have been stuck relying on the effects of lower mt weapons. Even taking the other upgrades like spd or def sounds cool to have some more variety and choice in builds for some units.

I'm drooling at the prospect of (if we get a close defense seal from this TT or in the future) +def Beruka (40) with CD A slot(+6), CD seal (+6), +def pick on slaying axe(+4). 56 def when attacked in melee, 62 if under fortify fliers, 70 with 2 wards (>ever using wards, though). H O W F A R C A N W E G O, THE FLYING FORTRESS

Interesting for Camilla too. I was going to go for Emerald axe when I eventually made her DC build, but with this coming I'll have to wait and see if Slaying Axe++ might be that much better for her.

I'm not sure about the other generic tomes' uses. Buffing a blade tome user is so easy, even units like Lillina are still probably better off with one. I guess if you really don't want to run hones in your teammate's C slots that stuff like Bolganone++ could be worth considering. Or you really want the extra spd or other stat instead of increasing raw attack. (though not really in Lillina's case) Either way at least it does make going for less conventional options not as sub-optimal as they have been.

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Here's hoping that -ravens get a boost. . .because I want to wreck colorless harder!

Of the legendary weapons, off the top of my head:

- Binding Blade is in dire need of an update.  Its effect is pretty bad in comparison to other legendaries
- I'm super-hyped for a Yato upgrade.  I consider it to be one of the funnier weapons already.  Having Corrin turn into a freight train on attack is hilarious.
- I also consider Alphonse's beatstick to be pretty good (since I like running idiotic half-health builds), so an upgrade will make it all the more amusing.
- I'd love some differentiation between the DC weapons (say, Ryoma's weapon gives him speed, Xander's gives him durability, Camus' heals him, and Ike's gives him overkill attack).
- Brynhilder's in-built Gravity requires a good amount positioning.  Would be funny if it's secondary effect was to make spaghetti sauce something like Savage Blow.
- As cool as Blazing Durandal is, I don't know if it will make Eliwood a better unit.

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My Seliph is waiting for his weapon to be upgraded and he is first on the list, but I have other legendary weapon wielders who are also waiting

Navarre is one of the top units waiting to have an upgrade as well, as well as all the units that I have that have killer weapons I want to upgrade them to slaying weapons. 

I just want this update to hurry up and come because I have several units who will become good again once I upgrade them:)

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49 minutes ago, eclipse said:

- As cool as Blazing Durandal is, I don't know if it will make Eliwood a better unit.

Basically, Eliwood would probably become a more "budget" version of Brave Roy due to his being available at 3-4* (easier to IV hunt) whereas Brave Roy is a 5*-exclusive (and not the most popular choice from the pick-1 banner). I can imagine that Eliwood would probably be built similarly to a glass cannon Brave Roy (Life and Death 3 + Desperation 3) and be put into a team comp that includes a cavalier with Hone Cavalry (so Eliwood, with =Spd, Life and Death 3, and Hone Cavalry buff, hits 41 Spd). The setup is mainly so Eliwood can make use of the Heavy Blade 3 effect during player phase. It's not fantastic since Brave Roy with ideal IVs can do better (+Atk/=Spd Eliwood hits 53/30 offenses w/ Blazing Durandal and no buffs, +Atk/=Spd Roy hits 54/34 offenses w/ Blazing Durandal and no buffs) but Eliwood's easier to get than Brave Roy is assuming the player didn't pick Brave Roy.

Edited by Roflolxp54
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Eliwood is a better mage killer than Roy. Before Durandal only gave +4 ATK on initiation. With Blazing Durandal he gets +3 ATK during enemy phase too. 53 ATK (59 with cavalry buffs) is enough for him to 1shot almost any green mage while charging a 3CD special and nuke on player phase. You can even give him a 5 CD skill with desperation brash assault to basically guarantee a kill.

 

Edit: Alternatively with Deflect Magic and Summoner support alone, he can even survive Reinhardt and kill him while charging Aether to nuke and heal on player phase. Blazing Durandal will give Eliwood a big boost in options at the cost of only 1 ATK.

Edited by Clogon
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I’m going to bump Lilina’s Bolganone up a notch just because. She was my very second 5★ and was with me through so much, all with her trusted Bolganone.

It’s the least I could do to show my gratitude.

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The only Eliwood that would be decent with this IMO is +Spd/-Res, which puts him at 1 less Atk/Spd than neutral Roy.  +Atk is asking to be murdered by something that's infantry and somewhat fast.

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11 minutes ago, eclipse said:

The only Eliwood that would be decent with this IMO is +Spd/-Res, which puts him at 1 less Atk/Spd than neutral Roy.  +Atk is asking to be murdered by something that's infantry and somewhat fast.

But this is making him into a budget Roy and does not play off his stength of being a better mage tank DC user. Either way, I like that it allows him to be built in different ways to fill different roles now.

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