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Who would you choose for a mixed-roster run of Birthright or Conquest?


Alastor15243
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Alright, so, here's the deal: suppose you had the ability to do a run of Birthright or Conquest, and you could take as many characters as you like from the game's roster and replace them with their opposite-country counterparts. And to clarify this because in some cases it's unclear (I'm going by what the game's revelation support options deem their counterparts to be in the case of no clear-cut parallel or in the case of Camilla and Leo not having two opposite-sex retainers):

 

Spoiler

Ryoma-Xander

Saizo-Laslow

Kagero-Peri

 

Hinoka-Camilla

Azama-Beruka

Setsuna-Selena

 

Takumi-Leo

Hinata-Odin

Oboro-Niles

 

Sakura-Elise

Subaki-Arthur

Hana-Effie

 

Orochi-Nyx

Rinkah-Charlotte

Hayato-Benny

Kaden-Keaton

 

 

You are also permitted to choose whether to keep their canon support list or replace it with the support options of the unit they're replacing.

In addition, since birthright and conquest have an uneven number of corrinsexuals, you can trade those freely and pick any 2 for conquest and any 3 for birthright.

Personally, the mere act of going through this thought exercise made me realize just how much I prefer the Conquest cast when it comes to gameplay. It wouldn't matter which run I was doing, I would pretty much across the board pick the Nohrians. Xander's low speed is a more easily-patched hurdle on an enemy phase unit than Ryoma's low defense, Camilla has a way better start and has magic, Leo just generally has far more utility and combat potential than Takumi, and Elise has better magic and mobility. As for the others, Laslow's rally utility is something I just can't resist, Selena's the perfect support partner for Xander, Odin at least breeds the physical manifestation of lunatic cheesing, Arthur can be made really useful if you try while a low-speed peg is just flat-out unacceptable, Effie's just generally statistically superior to Hana once you get her into a class that can double, Nyx has comparable offense and can actually double, Benny is at least at a usable level and if you're not using him is awesome great knight insta-promote pairup fodder, and Keaton and his daughter are objectively superior to Kaden and his in every conceivable way, statistically and personalitywise, fight me.

Really the only ones I'd switch out would be Peri for Kagero because ninjas are always great and I kinda hate Peri, Niles for Oboro if I didn't care to do any capturing that playthrough because Oboro is a great physical unit who's only missing 1-2 range, and Beruka for Azama depending on what I intended to do with supports.

I'd definitely pick Scarlet instead of Flora though.

 

What would you do?

 

 

Edited by Alastor15243
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Spoiler

Ryoma-Xander - Xander's utility is ridiculous. Ryoma is really only good on Birthright, but Xander would be good in both routes.

Saizo-Laslow - Rally is a pretty good skill.

Kagero-Peri - Anime titty + actual decent personality + the superior unit stat-wise imo. Peri's shelter and cooking will be missed.

 

Hinoka-Camilla - Hmm I wonder which is better, the broken pre-promote or the decent peg?

Azama-Beruka - I like Beruka a lot.

Setsuna-Selena - This one's a bit of a wash but Selena is the more useful support partner than Setsuna.

 

Takumi-Leo - Kinshi Takumi is pretty good. Leo's a good unit but kind of superfluous when you have Odin

Hinata-Odin - Odin is an incredibly good and under-appreciated unit. He'd make any of the routes a joke tbqh.

Oboro-Niles - Capture 3 good.

 

Sakura-Elise - Another wash, they're both very strong and have healing utility. But Elise has a hurse.

Subaki-Arthur - Justice-kun > Perfect-san.

Hana-Effie - I just like SM Hana. Plus, Effie's just alright imo. I wouldn't be too mad about either one, though.

 

Orochi-Nyx - Orochi is hot garbage. Nyx isn't much better but at least 10/1 DK Nyx has a niche.

Rinkah-Charlotte - Oni Chieftain is seriously so good, I couldn't pass it up.

Hayato-Benny - Both are pretty underwhelming. Benny has more utility immediately after he joins than Hayato, though.

Kaden-Keaton - I like Velouria too much to not pick Keaton here.

12 Nohrians, and 4 Hoshidans...yikes. Hoshido's cast really isn't that spectacular.

Oh, and I'd pick Flora over Scarlet because I think she's cuter and has more utility, but both are great units.

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13 minutes ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

Oh, and I'd pick Flora over Scarlet because I think she's cuter and has more utility, but both are great units.

Just to clarify, it isn't a choice between those two, I was just going with "the Nohrian cast unless noted". It's "Gunter, Flora, Reina, Scarlet and Yukimura, pick 2 for Conquest or 3 for Birthright." I just didn't elect to swap Gunter out for anyone since he's such good pairup fodder and Reina's the only one I'd actually consider using for anything else.

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Well...

For the Conquest switching, I'd pick the following:

  • Oboro's obviously a given, especially as early as she'd come in this path and because I don't give a single damn about capturing units
  • I'd probably also replace Owain with Hinata unless we're factoring kids
  • Kagero or Saizo; probably the former since the latter would replace Laslow
  • I actually would replace Elise with Sakura; I prefer my healers to be at least a little bit tougher than a sponge in the event that they get attacked due to faults in strategy, and I'm willing to sacrifice the extra movement and slightly lower magic stat for that
  • Rinkah's tankier than Charlottesville, so I'll take her
  • I'd take Scarlet and Reina over Gunter and Flora, honestly; Yukimura would also actually be a tempting option to replace Flora if only so that he can take down the damn stoneborns that show up in Ch 26 more easily than the others without reclassing BS
  • I'll take Hana as well just so that I can hate myself

For Birthright switching, here's who I'd pick:

  • Get Ryoma out of there; I definitely like having units that can tank (whether it's through actually tanking hits or through dodge-tanking), but not if they're gonna steal kills from all my other units all the damn time, and I know Xander wouldn't do that because he doesn't have the crit power or speed to do so
  • I'd take Arthur over Subaki, because Subaki just sucks at damaging things and actually is useless compared to any other fliers in the game; I'm keeping Hana and Sakura, though
  • I'll replace Setsuna with Selena, if only because I don't find Setsuna useful; Azama can at least produce Mitama and be a reliable healer-combatant unit if I choose to use him, and Hinoka's a solid enough unit
  • I might only be inclined to replace Yukimura with Flora; I really don't care to get Gunter at all

I really don't care to bring too many Nohrians to Birthright, honestly.  Not as many as most others probably would, anyway.  I think it's funner to use the units people trash on over the ones everyone says are really good unless the game is actually really tough.

Edited by Ertrick36
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38 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Just to clarify, it isn't a choice between those two, I was just going with "the Nohrian cast unless noted". It's "Gunter, Flora, Reina, Scarlet and Yukimura, pick 2 for Conquest or 3 for Birthright." I just didn't elect to swap Gunter out for anyone since he's such good pairup fodder and Reina's the only one I'd actually consider using for anything else.

Oh I completely missed that line when I first read your post, my mistake. In that case I'd probably just keep Scarlet and Flora for CQ and add Reina for BR.

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35 minutes ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

Oh I completely missed that line when I first read your post, my mistake. In that case I'd probably just keep Scarlet and Flora for CQ and add Reina for BR.

Still a less biased pick than mine.

Saizo+Nhorian cast ez.

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If I had my own mixed team it would be

Ryoma-Xander - Lobster Lord > Dude who blindly trusts his Evil Dad

Saizo-Laslow - Though I like both, I pick Saizo for more dagger users to debuff foes, plus I have Selena as a Merc.

Kagero-Peri - Kagero is superior girl in terms of utility and character.

Hinoka-Camilla - Camilla just wreck crap early on.

Azama-Beruka - Beruka is much nicer and interesting character than Azama

Setsuna-Selena - Sorry stoner girl, but I want a Merc so Tsundere Redhead gets to join in the fun.

Takumi-Leo - Not big on either of the two, but Takumi stands out more to me, plus he's a powerful Archer.

Hinata-Odin - Because Odin is more fun personality wise, not that both are that great units to begin with

Oboro-Niles - Niles is BAE, though I do like Oboro.

Sakura-Elise - Wish I had both, but Elise for horsey and can be a magic powerhouse when promoted.

Subaki-Arthur - Subaki is as boringly perfect as Kirito, along with being a weak unit. Arthur more fun.

Hana-Effie - Effie isn't considered the strongest Armor Unit for nothing, though I like Benny characterwise more compared to her meathead localization.

Orochi-Nyx - Both aren't that great mage units, but I like Orochi more characterwise.

Rinkah-Charlotte - The Gold Digger is more amusing than the one axe user in hoshido who struggles to be a competent unit, let alone a meh character.

Hayato-Benny - Benny is such a Cinnamon Role, Hayato is just a brat.

Kaden-Keaton - Gotta love them foxes and their nice bushy tails.

Scarlet - Flora - Can debuff and heal, plus I have Camilla and Beruka for Wyverns.

Reina - Gunter - Reina isn't bogged down on stat for being a "Jeigen".

May not be the most "optimal" setup, but At least I picked characters I like that I can count on.

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For Birthright switches, I'd switch:

  • Hana with Effie - the latter can take a damned hit at least, and dodgetanking is unreliable
  • Ryoma with Xander - as stated above, dodgetanking isn't viable as a defense, and swordmasters have seen better days
  • Setsuna with Selena - Better class, and Selena can actually take a hit

For Conquest switching I'd switch:

  • Arthur with Subaki - Both of them suck badly, but it doesn't take much to be better than a reset hazard like Arthur
  • Niles with Oboro - I'm not big on capture, especially when I have to use a weakling like Niles, who struggles to achieve anything resembling competence, to do it
  • Charlotte with Rinkah - both are just plain bad as units, but Rinkah manages to suck less
  • Elise with Sakura - I like both, but Sakura doesn't instantly die or come close to it if I screw up
  • Odin with Hinata - neither of them are very good, frankly, but Hinata comes off as more useful
  • Laslow with Saizo - Laslow's rally is really (bleep!)ing underwhelming (a measly +1 to strength and speed isn't nearly useful enough to justify wasting a turn), and I want a dagger option that isn't wimpy Kaze

For all the praise Conquest seems to get, unit balance just is NOT one of those things I can see the praise for...

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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In order:

Ryoma-Xander - Xander makes a nice wall, but I really want things to die.

Saizo-Laslow - Better personal skill, and can reclass to Ninja to take care of his bleh Speed.

Kagero-Peri - She makes a better mom, since Ninjas are really useful subclasses.  Much as I like Peri's personal skill, it requires way too much finagling to use effectively.

Hinoka-Camilla - Wyverns get superior class skills. . .never mind the fact that Camilla breaks things in half by existing.

Azama-Beruka - This is solely for Mitama, though I don't mind having a wall for a healer.

Setsuna-Selena - It's not that Setsuna is good.  It's that Selena has arguably the worst personal skill in the game, and her reclass into Pegasus Knight doesn't make up for it.

Takumi-Leo - Fujin Yumi is that good.

Hinata-Odin - I had to think about this for a bit.  Hinata makes a hilarious wall, and Hisame's amusing.  However, I'm a little short on magic, so Odin and his game-wrecking potential comes in.  Plus, Ophelia's pretty good.

Oboro-Niles - If I want a bow unit with utility, I'd field Shura.

Sakura-Elise - Sakura has a weird weapon combination.  Elise dumps Strength and calls it a day.

Subaki-Arthur - Oh man,decisions.  I really like Percy, but Subaki can either go Samurai to fix my lack of swords, or be a flying staffbot thing. . .dammit.  Eh, I'll go with Subaki, and pretend that Calamari doesn't exist.

Hana-Effie - Fastest choice of them all. Effie has better mods and can act as a wall that hits back.

Orochi-Nyx - This is so I can capture enemy units.  Both of them are outclassed by a well-trained Odin, though.

Rinkah-Charlotte - Charlotte wins on modifiers.  That's.  It.

Hayato-Benny - Ignatius has his uses, even if his paralogue is annoying.  Ratface just annoys me, much like her dad.

Kaden-Keaton - Keaton's job is to wreck things, and he does it very well.

Scarlet - Flora - She turns out decently enough, and I have my utility already.

Reina - Gunter - Her personal skill is a damn sight better than anything Gunter can offer.

That's a surprisingly even split!

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Finished Birthright recently; found the general lack of good class skills / mounts compared to Conquest underwhelming. At least good old Nohrian Silas is there to pass Cavalier to Kaze / Ryoma / wife.

 

Speaking mostly from a Conquest point-of-view.

Xander > Ryoma - Ryoma is excellent but Xander has enough speed to work with + extra move and raw bulk.

Saizo > Laslow - Saizo joins earlier and doesn't use a Heart Seal, Inigo has rally and Sol access.

Kagero > Peri - shuriken access is really strong. Peri passes a more useful class to husband. Not sure I'd use either much.

Camilla > Hinoka - Hinoka's good but this isn't a match-up she can win.

Beruka > Azama - yes I'll take the Wyvern Rider over healer that wants a reclass to contribute #3.

Selena > Setsuna - Setsuna has availability but doesn't actually seem to contribute to anything? Severa's solid enough.

Leo > Takumi - Kinshi Knight is good (in Conquest at least!), Dark Mage is better.

Odin > Hinata - Owain requires a decent bit of investment but sort of becomes invincible, Hinata has an OK start but doesn't really go anywhere.

Niles > Oboro - dude provides so much utility across a run.

Elise > Sakura - higher level, better staff rank, more movement, better reclass option.

Arthur > Subaki - probably similar to Owain / Hinata where you have rocky start -> solid when trained vs. good start -> doesn't go anywhere. This one's closer because flight in Chapter 7 sounds pretty solid!

Effie > Hana - both are getting benched! Effie provides quick Arthur support for quick Percy though.

Orochi -> Nyx - capture + Rally Magic + staff + speed pairup is probably more than Nyx's early promote shenanigans.

Rinkah > Charlotte - E axes is very underwhelming but is available to provide her pairup bonuses for longer than Charlotte is - I imagine she does a solid enough job at swinging Bolt Axe around if you invest in her as well.

Benny > Hayato - he's not level 1.

Keaton > Kaden - yep neither of you are getting used either.

 

Flora depends on how much you rate B staves - I imagine if I tried hard enough I could get Felicia to B so Flora might get cut. I'd take Scarlet because Wyvern Lord with good stats. Gunter provides a bunch of support but I'd also probably go with Reina.

12 Conquest vs. 6 Birthright.

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On 11/25/2017 at 6:07 AM, Dean said:

Saizo > Laslow - Saizo joins earlier and doesn't use a Heart Seal, Inigo has rally and Sol access.

You don’t get their original join times, just so you know. They join when the ones they’re replacing would have joined.

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Ok. What level are they recruited? Is someone like Level 11 Archer Takumi competing with Level 2 Dark Knight Leo in Conquest chapter 14?

 

Do they keep their original inventories? I think I’d prefer Energy Drop and Sting Shuriken to Peri.

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2 hours ago, Dean said:

Ok. What level are they recruited? Is someone like Level 11 Archer Takumi competing with Level 2 Dark Knight Leo in Conquest chapter 14?

 

Do they keep their original inventories? I think I’d prefer Energy Drop and Sting Shuriken to Peri.

Fair point, the level differences between Conquest and Birthright are pretty major at times... not sure how I'd personally do it since this is all hypothetical...

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