Persona 5 Mafia - Game Over

[Refa]

43 minutes ago, BBM said:

@Prims/Refa- my lynch priority would go Sully > Ken/Shinori probably.

I do think Ken's reactions to people asking him to contribute, and what Prims said basically, is suspicious, but I think the bits about him purposely avoiding the thread as scum are a stretch. While that's possible, it's about equally possible that he just lost interest.

I actually thought Shinori had posted stuff more recently but I guess not. The listread post just has so little detail about everything except the bit on Michelaar that I don't really know what to make of it. The thing that bothers me most about his play as a whole is just that he says he's skimming while playing games, which fits given how his posts have been, but he's been using most of his limited time to defend himself rather than look for scum in more detail?

I'm not sure about Bartozio; I was townreading him slightly around the time I was scumreading Marth but he's dropped off the radar since then. It may just be a similar thing as Baldrick and Prims where his main scumread being AWOL is causing him to lurk slightly while waiting for them to return. Need to read his later posts again.

Fair enough regarding him flaking.  I'll wait to see what no doubt invaluable insight Gaius has for us on the morrow.

Shinori is null for me but I'm not really bothered by his content being defending himself considering that's where his scum reads are coming from as well.  If he defended himself without having any scum reads, then I'd have a problem.

I'm biased towards Bartozio because I'd feel like crap if I contributed to a mislynch again but I don't remember any of his content being particularly objectionable.

9 minutes ago, BBM said:

I guess a bit more about Sully because he's like a top townread apparently. Sully's play doesn't sit right with me because it just doesn't feel like it should for a newbtown. At the start of the game he was sort of passive and willing to hang around and wait back, which I thought was fairly in line with a new player and so when people were first a bit suspicious of him I didn't really see it. But since then he's become a lot more aggressive and that kind of shift just sits wrong with me? I suppose this change in play is what's causing people to be townreading him more, but it's done the opposite for me. I'm not really sure because I don't think anybody's given an explanation for why they think Sully is town except kirsche, but that consists mostly of a silly confirmation post thing and them agreeing on reads.

So I went looking for more concrete scummy things he'd done even if they weren't exact explanations for the shift in his play but maybe those things just seem more like bad play things to you guys rather than scummy things? I'd really like more detail here from Prims, Via, and kirsche in specific.

Screw you BBM, I said that WRT Sully before it was cool and Marth never responded to me about it :<.  Honestly, his case on you made me feel better about that because I didn't think he'd push you so hard as scum, but now that I'm looking at his case in greater detail, it doesn't seem to hold up for me.

[Percivalé]

I'm sedated

I might have oberestimsted the number of votes sit has had on him btj I thinkhenosneasyn to kybch and don't think hisplay isncoming from scum but woukd be easy forscum to frame as scummy and I just dont feel good sboitny yoy so it doesn't nice well

[SB.]

Votals 1.8

Lord Gaius (5): Prims, Bartozio, Mackc2, Refa, Michelaar
BBM (3): kirsche, SullyMcGully, Via
SullyMcGully (2): Marth, BBM
Refa (1): Lord Gaius
Marth (1): Baldrick

Not Voting (1): Shinori

With 13 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 9 to hammer. You have 15 hours and 40 minutes left in the day.

Mobile formating is awful, big sorry. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by SB.

[Mackc2]

1 hour ago, Refa said:

 Also can you explain your issues with Baldrick?  I'm null on the slot myself, so having another opinion would be great.

It felt like they where tunnelling Shinori when I was reading the pages I missed, but rereading I don't agree with myself on that anymore so thats why I said it turn up nothing 

[Percivalé]

iif sully flip scum I wiil actuallt eat my shoelavces

[Mackc2]

Also Lord Gaius is apparently the Ken Master replacement based on that votal  

[Michelaar]

1 minute ago, Mackc2 said:

Also Lord Gaius is apparently the Ken Master replacement based on that votal  

Yeah I didn't see that before. Well, LG, state your case I suppose.

[Refa]

If that doesn't sit well with you, then you definitely won't like this.

##Unvote

##Vote: Sully McGully

I feel more confident with my case on SMcG than I do with Ken M.  I can consolidate on Ken M, but I definitely don't want to lynch BBM.  A lot of people have been throwing around Shinori as a lynch option as well, but I'm not bothered by him and no one is really pointing out any scum intent in his posts so I wouldn't feel comfortable lynching him today.

[BBM]

1 minute ago, Quote said:

iif sully flip scum I wiil actuallt eat my shoelavces

You have to realize how frustrating this is to me lol. What makes you so sure he's town? All new players are an easy mislynch, relatively anyways. Is there anything about Sully in particular that would make him easy for scum to frame?

[Percivalé]

I can't 43qkky exolain it I just feelk it

[Percivalé]

refa have youbexplained why you don't want to lynch bbm bbecause it seened like you were ok with theb lynch earliet

[Percivalé]

if we end up lynchingn sully after all it mightbe bettwr than me latchijg onto am associative read with no flios

[Percivalé]

flips

[Refa]

1 minute ago, Quote said:

refa have youbexplained why you don't want to lynch bbm bbecause it seened like you were ok with theb lynch earliet

I was definitely on board with the lynch earlier.  In general, I think his responses to Sully/yours/Kirsche's cases are good but they moreso pushed him to null than him being town.  However, this is not a scum post.  I can understand his frustrations towards having a read that no one else agrees with, and I don't think his thought process would have such LORE if he was scum trying to push a mislynch onto Sully.  If Scum!BBM was trying to push a mislynch onto Sully, why wouldn't he mention this earlier?

[Percivalé]

theh only other persoin I would be okay with lynchint that isjnt ken/gain is prims and thats largely meta 

[Percivalé]

hold on inneed to sleep I'll answer the res to the stuff tomorrow

[BBM]

yeah I guess Bartozio is another guy who I just assumed had posted more recently but since there have been so many posts in the past 12 hours, he hasn't actually posted since like Page 7. His opinions are all fine; there just aren't very many of them.

via, if you don't think Sully is scum, there's no point to just voting him for associative reads. for one thing even if he flips town that won't mean that someone on his wagon has to be scum

 

[Percivalé]

I'm not voting sully rhoigh

[Percivalé]

it was a hypohtetical if it haooens because I'm not going to be here for phase ened

[Michelaar]

Quote, are you typing with your feet or something? Almost tempted to vote you.

[Baldrick]

@SB I am voting Marth. It's separate from my unvote, so I guess that's my bad.

---

 

@bbm

Marth's challenging of Sully's Shinori vote is good pressure, I wouldn't quite call it a read though.

He makes some good points on Mackc2 but on re-read, I got a query.

On 11/29/2017 at 1:18 PM, Magnificence Incarnate said:

I don't really like Mack's vote on Mich because it isn't pushing the game anywhere. He knows of mich's playstyle so this looks p scummy.

18 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

I want to expand on the quote of Mack that Refa is referring to on page 5: I feel like he is saying that as a WIFOM excuse for his vote. Like, his vote cannot have scum intent because he'd know as scum that the players in question would not allow a Mich lynch like that.

But it is likely that if he was scum then he just didn't think it through and wanted  to throw shade on someone who is easy to mislynch.

 

The first post Mackc's scum intent is planning to provoke Michelaar and the first part of the second post supposes that he is covering his tracks. But then the last part seems to be saying he's scum that didn't plan? I want him to clarify what that is trying to say.

 

Overall, I'm neither scumreading nor townreading his other play.

 

---

 

RE: BBM/Sully. I don't agree with Sully's assessment of BBM. This line

9 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

When people target me, it comes across as scummy to me because I'm the easiest to take advantage of.

actually bothers me a lot because it sounds like they're talking from experience they don't have.

shinori at the time had spent a lot of words defending himself so i could see why sully would accuse him of not having reads.

(quote via via)

Sully didn't say Shinori didn't have reads, but said Shinori hadn't posted any reads yet. He did have a discarded BBM read (and a kirsche read even I missed until kirsche mentioned it) at that point so while the former was true, the latter wasn't. I think Sully's choice of wording implies he missed Shinori's reads entirely rather than thinking they're irrelevant.

BBM spent a fair amount of time on Marth, so while the unvote was a bit of a non-sequitur I wouldn't call it a quick unvote. His defence seems pretty assured even though he's come under a lot of pressure.

At the moment I would tiebreak vote for Sully over BBM.

 

--

I'm going to sleep soon, so time to talk about Shinori's reads.

Via is gut, ok whatever.

Prims is just kind of there, yeah he's not obvtown but what are you doing to get a better read on him?

Michelaar unvoted you easily... though it took him a long time to do so. I'm not sure why he's scumreading over it, though.

Bartozio, claimed to be his strongest read, he will post about it later. If it doesn't turn up before phase end, that should be a major red flag.

I'm consolidating on him now, because even if I am around before phase end I won't have much time.

 

##unvote

##vote: Shinori

[Bluedoom]

I'm having bad net atm, can't guarantee a lot then.

 

Vote's sticking on Sully, I'd prefer his lynch over BBM's because BBM is more active in discussion, has better reasoning for his votes than Sully, and also, I see him being all over the place as NAI. He did this as town during D1 in Heroes Mafia so I'm not inclined to look at it as scum play.

[Bluedoom]

I guess LG should claim, I don't see his play really changing the tides here. I'd have rather had a Ken lynch and save LG as a sub than sub LG into a slot that's going to be lynched anyway, that just makes him feel terrible lol.

[Bluedoom]

@Baldrick Not sure what you're asking for here. In the first quote I said nothing about Mack provoking Michelaar. Michelaar isn't a player that gets provoked by a vote, you're putting words in my mouth here.

 

The point being I thought that Mack was throwing shade on Michelaar when people pressured him so that he could create some noise in the thread and get away with it. Then when he had his argument with Refa, over the course he figured out that he had to cover his tracks, and that he couldn't get away with what he did.

[Percivalé]

5 hours ago, Michelaar said:

Quote, are you typing with your feet or something? Almost tempted to vote you.

I thought it was a good idea to try to play mafia on my meds last night apparently