Persona 5 Mafia - Game Over

[Mackc2]

So first read was on Balderick, general impressions is they where all bark and no bite, generally their posts where on the scarser side, the talk on almost every page indicating they check the page often but they make an average of about 1-2 posts per page, not too bad but not fantastic. So multiple complaints firstly, their votes just seem all over the place and have little to do with what they say their suspicions are. Namely they vote park on Ken for the whole beginning while talking about how suspicious they find Shinori and Marth, mostly Marth. I think their case on Shinori was mostly that the vote change was sus (I don't really agree) and maybe I am just stupid or maybe I missed it but I don't know what their problem with marth was besides that it felt like he was disinterested (something Balderick admitted he felt himself). There is also something about the way they treat the Ken Masters sub that rubs me the wrong way, they swap their vote off him before he even says anything despite the fact that "He was most suspicious of Ken." swapping the player doesn't swap the role, if Ken is suspicious then Gaius is just as suspicious, yet apparently he starts from square one? I don't know what you where trying to pull but town would have thought of the role not the player. 
Almost forgot one last thing, it felt that they where ignoring the general goings on in the game and tunnelling Shinori, Marth and Ken. 

##Vote: Balderick

Also @Refa there was something I was curious about, when the guy not playing posted you mentioned SB might sub him in as a hidden player, are hidden players a common thing, and what are they?

[BBM]

here and here are posts detailing why your case against Bartozio was weak; here and here are posts about why I thought your case against me was weak so don't say I haven't been giving counterpoints

I have a slight townread on Bartozio yeah but more than having specific reasons for thinking he's town, I think your reasons for scumreading him are mostly bad. The strongest part of your case is that he didn't do much other than votepark Ken and should have tried harder to reread the game rather than re-vote Ken. This is true but coming from you it reads hollow when you have several posts saying "I'm just skimming in between League games right now". Also, why is that worse than other people who never even unvoted Ken in the first place?

 

[Baldrick]

##vote: Shinori

This post here analyses his Bartozio case, which I feel is at least as solid as my suspicions on Marth.

 

Also his last post is kinda bad. In his last post he said he was going to case me because I was "extremely iffy". We've just had a 24-hour pause where you don't have to worry about falling behind in the thread, he didn't use that time to construct a case on me?

[Shinori]

Nah I didn't. WHEN THE FUCK HAVE I EVER DONE THAT BALDRICK GOD DAMN.

[Shinori]

I legit don't think I have ever once fucking used a night phase to make a post detailing something. Like. Ever.

[SullyMcGully]

Okay I'm turning in for the night. Baldrick and Mack: my hunch about you two hasn't let up and I've felt like your last two posts were exceptionally weak. Especially you, Mack, I know I sound like a broken record and that my reasoning wasn't that great the first time around but it's starting to really sound like you want to use Michelaar as lynchbait. While I can't really defend him seeing as he's not posting, something about the fact that it's you pointing out his scummy appearance after multiple people here have pointed out that you might be taking advantage of him, just doesn't sit very well with me. I understand you both probably have more to say, and I'll look at that tomorrow. For now though, I still suspect both of you, but I think Mack seems to be the scummier of the pair.

Unvote

Vote: Mackc2

And my lynch priority for right now is

Mackc2>Baldrick>>>>>>>>>>Michelaar>Bartozio>Shinori>Marth>BBM>kersch>via>>>Refa

Everything except for Mackc2 and Baldrick being scummy and Refa being awesome town is gut feeling and the opinions of others, so I won't go into detail on that.

Michelaar where are you? 

[BBM]

also another instance of shinori using his in-between-games time to defend himself as opposed to scumhunting

@baldrick- I just can't take the part about not having time to reread Mack or not paying attention to his posts at face value because if you were suspicious of him you should have been paying more attention to his posts while reading through the thread the first time. The dissonance between how you treat Mack vs Shinori and Marth, not just at the moment of switching away from Gaius but most of the time you were voting Ken, is what makes me think you just forgot about him, which makes the most sense if the read was fabricated. Regardless I'll echo Sully in asking you what your read on Mack is now.

Also, if you didn't have time to read Gaius's posts fully why not just say that when voting him? I can't see why you would make up stuff about him not giving reads or content.

can you link/quote the posts where you felt Marth's reasons to vote Bartozio were inconsistent? Also, if that's the case wrt Marth, why not change your vote from Ken to him (before the Gaius sub that is)? Do you still think Marth is scummy?

fair enough on the bit about not actually defending Mack while voting Shinori. I think you linked to the wrong post in your latest vote against Shinori though.

[Baldrick]

7 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

So first read was on Balderick, general impressions is they where all bark and no bite, generally their posts where on the scarser side, the talk on almost every page indicating they check the page often but they make an average of about 1-2 posts per page, not too bad but not fantastic. So multiple complaints firstly, their votes just seem all over the place and have little to do with what they say their suspicions are. Namely they vote park on Ken for the whole beginning while talking about how suspicious they find Shinori and Marth, mostly Marth.

I think their case on Shinori was mostly that the vote change was sus (I don't really agree) and maybe I am just stupid or maybe I missed it but I don't know what their problem with marth was besides that it felt like he was disinterested (something Balderick admitted he felt himself).

There is also something about the way they treat the Ken Masters sub that rubs me the wrong way, they swap their vote off him before he even says anything despite the fact that "He was most suspicious of Ken." swapping the player doesn't swap the role, if Ken is suspicious then Gaius is just as suspicious, yet apparently he starts from square one? I don't know what you where trying to pull but town would have thought of the role not the player. 

Almost forgot one last thing, it felt that they where ignoring the general goings on in the game and tunnelling Shinori, Marth and Ken. 

##Vote: Balderick
 

You don't have my D1 reads right, here

I said I wanted to give Gaius time to acclimatise (i.e. read the thread and post content). This is the exact same expectations I had of Ken. The difference is that Ken had the whole phase to read the thread and Gaius had about 18 hours. Given my lack of time around phase end, there was no way he could get a content post out and I could properly read it before phase end.

What goings on do you think I should have talked about?

[Bluedoom]

OK Baldrick, what do you think of other players on the game? Please comment on them.

[BBM]

1 hour ago, Mackc2 said:

So before I go back and read the thread I wanted to say something about Michelaar, he should not be given a free pass just because of how he acts because acting like mafia all the time doesn't stop him from actually being mafia. Only problem is that conventional tests and analysis of plays don't work well on him because he just ends up looking scummy, its annoying me because if he's mafia he could just be cruising off his reputation, Its unlikely but the thought still annoys me and if anyone has a method they think would work they should try it.

Now time to read the thread... for real this time I am not going to just stop when I get bored 

do you even think Michelaar is scum? here you're just trying to like spread the idea that he could be scum. reads like scum being salty that someone else is getting a pass despite playing badly

[BBM]

35 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

##vote: Shinori

This post here analyses his Bartozio case, which I feel is at least as solid as my suspicions on Marth.

 

Also his last post is kinda bad. In his last post he said he was going to case me because I was "extremely iffy". We've just had a 24-hour pause where you don't have to worry about falling behind in the thread, he didn't use that time to construct a case on me?

I will agree with Shinori though that the point here is a bit weak because people like to use the night phase as a break from the game. it doesn't seem like you reread the thread over the night phase?

[Baldrick]

@BBM; my posts on Marth D1 are here and here

my first post in the day phase is replying to Marth and Shinori and expanding on Shinori's read. I didn't reread everyone, true, but I spent my time making my main scumreads as good as they could be. Now, Shinori explicitly promised to case me in the last post on D1. If he takes a break N1, then splits his time ED2 between playing league and defending himself, when does he plan to post his case on me?

 

[Sunwoo]

The "SB isn't here" Votals

Bartozio (1): kirsche
Mackc2 (3): Bartozio, Refa, Sully
Baldrick (3): BBM, Magnificence Incarnate, Mackc2
Shinori (1): Baldrick

[Mackc2]

10 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

You don't have my D1 reads right, here

I said I wanted to give Gaius time to acclimatise (i.e. read the thread and post content). This is the exact same expectations I had of Ken. The difference is that Ken had the whole phase to read the thread and Gaius had about 18 hours. Given my lack of time around phase end, there was no way he could get a content post out and I could properly read it before phase end.

What goings on do you think I should have talked about?

Firstly don't add paragraphs in when quoting me thank you

I feel like you are missing my point about Ken, It shouldn't matter what you think of the individual players because in the end they both defended the same slot so they may as well be one. You thought Ken was suspect, hypothetically if you are town you would be assuming he is acting that way to hide a scum role. Thus Gaius also is still scum and its his job to convince you that Ken wasn't mafia but just being an asshat, and yet you unvote him before he proves anything and vote him after he attempts to prove it with your reasoning basically being because he tried to say that Ken was an asshat. 

There where plenty of people posting not called Mack, Sully, Marth or Shinori, you had barely said a word about any of them. 

Just now, BBM said:

do you even think Michelaar is scum? here you're just trying to like spread the idea that he could be scum. reads like scum being salty that someone else is getting a pass despite playing badly

I don't think he is scum but the idea has wormed my way into my mind that maybe he is and its pissing me off that we have no way to check, there is no indicator whether or not it is true, and the only way to really have any idea is to Lynch him and that really is not a viable solution because it would just be a wasted lynch and we would lose one more townie vote if it is actually the more likely option (He is town.) 

tldr: I am frustrated with Michelaars play and feel like complaining in case anyone had an actual solution 

[Shinori]

32 minutes ago, BBM said:

also another instance of shinori using his in-between-games time to defend himself as opposed to scumhunting

Yeah because I totally don't actually play games. I'm actually in a series for something I've been aiming to reach for for a long ass time. At the moment that is literally more important to me than anything related to this. The fact that I'm posting at all is something.

9 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

@BBM; my posts on Marth D1 are here and here

my first post in the day phase is replying to Marth and Shinori and expanding on Shinori's read. I didn't reread everyone, true, but I spent my time making my main scumreads as good as they could be. Now, Shinori explicitly promised to case me in the last post on D1. If he takes a break N1, then splits his time ED2 between playing league and defending himself, when does he plan to post his case on me?

 

And I still think your scum and that post is coming when I'm done with my series.  Also like this day phase just fucking started.  Like are you actually serious in the fact that you believe I should 100% put this mafia first. Sorry fam it's not the biggest part of my day.  Literally when this day started I was almost at my series and have been doing nothing but push for this on league.  Streaming it too if people don't believe me.  I feel like you're just being petty at the moment and looking for anything you can say and do to make me look bad.  Literally been stuck on me since half way through day 1 with very little pressure on ANYONE else.

[Baldrick]

OMG! It is a Baldrick reading Mackc post!

I can't get the quote tags to co-operate so his posts will be in black, my response in blue.

Regardless the only people I am not liking currently are Ken for reasons a lot of people have stated and Shinori mostly because I am confident that at least someone on my wagon is scum which there are 4 Refa, Sully, BBM and Shinori.

Refa seems to be trying to get everyone talking and to me their attitude generally reads as town, Scum wouldn't be giving me chances to defend myself. So he's a townread.
BBM is a similar case to Refa, they seem to be a bit of a conversationalist on the pressing topics and it feels like they are trying to push Towns agenda
Sully is one I'm less sure on but I don't think scum would have come up with that reason for chasing me when there some decent reasons to sheep.
Which leaves Shinori who I am not comfortable with because it feels like they have just sheeped my wagon and there reasoning seems the weakest to me.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shinori

Ken suspicion I will cover later when he votes there. The analyses of his wagon is consistent in that he's considering conversationalist to be town and non-conversationist to be scum.

I agree with Shinori here, there is nothing odd about their vote swap or its timing, I answered their question, they no longer found me Sus and decided someone else was more sus. I can also accept that you hopped on my wagon to sheep some pressure on me. But your attitude about it really isn't great, essentially calling the opposition fucking stupid isn't a good way to win arguments and its counterproductive but that's not really alignment indicative.

That said I don't like that you voted BBM for doing things that you had been doing up until that point, namely you called him out for not pushing towns agenda while you weren't really doing much up until that point but sitting on your vote on me and commenting on me and Ken once, and also for not posting deep post. That said I have a bad feeling about you but I need to read a bit more before I can say if I still find you most scummy.

##Unvote

Addressing that top bit, I don't like changing my vote unless I have someone else to vote for and I thought there really was no harm in just keeping my vote on Michelaar until I found someone better because there wasn't anyone else who would vote him, there is no danger of him getting lynched if I kept my vote there so thats just what I did, that said I think shinori is currently at L-1 so I am taking that away.

The reasons for unvoting is really weird. At this point, I'd expect you to unvote because of how you understand his thoughts better, or keep your vote because of the BBM read you don't like. But you unvote him because apparently Shinori is at L-1. This frankly feels like BS to me; you've played two games that I can see, you should understand how hammer works.

Yeah I have been reading Baldericks posts because something bothered me about his recent plays but I can't figure it out, so I could keep flicking through pages looking for readings on everyone (which I will do when I get bored.) or I could just go with the person who has been bothering me the whole game and go do something a bit more fun for a while.

##Vote: Ken Masters

At this point Ken had 3 votes, BBM had 3 and Sully had 2. Why did you not even give an opinion on the other two wagons? You said Shinori was scum for sheeping and not adding to the conversation. By your own admission, you're sheeping there, and what are you adding to the conversation? There's not much evidence of your "readings on everyone".

I feel like you are missing my point about Ken, It shouldn't matter what you think of the individual players because in the end they both defended the same slot so they may as well be one. You thought Ken was suspect, hypothetically if you are town you would be assuming he is acting that way to hide a scum role. Thus Gaius also is still scum and its his job to convince you that Ken wasn't mafia but just being an asshat, and yet you unvote him before he proves anything and vote him after he attempts to prove it with your reasoning basically being because he tried to say that Ken was an asshat.

No. I unvoted Ken to pursue other scumreads (compared to you unvoting Shinori and doing nothing with it) and voted him to secure a lynch.

In summary; there is
a minor Shinori case that is cut off for dubious reasons
a Ken vote that is scummy by the logic of his own Shinori case
a case on me today that lists the wrong reasons for every vote I made

 

I'm now confident of Shinori/Mackc2 being buddies from both their interactions.

 

[Michelaar]

Wow guys. Sorry about this. The last part of day 1, I was kinda busy with family matters that are private for the most part, I may have been lurking a bit but I definitly didn't feel like posting/Didn't have the time. And this day only started for 6 hours. Come on guys. Timezones DO in fact, exist. No need to sub me out quite yet, though if it's getting too heated with my family, I am going to have to ask SB to sub me out.

Now, I struggle to find the reason why i'm scum other than ''You're inactive'', which is kinda stupid. Quote saying that I should die now is kind of annoying. Is that how you usually play mafia games? 

 

Now for my reads. if Shinori still suspects me for the BS reason he gave yesterday then he is high on my list. It is pretty much a ''You think i'm scum? Nonsense! You're the scum'' vote. 

I am actually kind of scumreading Sully here. I feel like he puts in.. minimal effort, and kind of lifts on other player to explain his cases. And he mostly suspects people, if other people suspect them. His cases don't seem particularly strong either. I see people often have to call him out for him to explain his reasons, because they don't make a lot of sense.

From what i've read, the baldrick cases actually make a lot of sense, but i'm personally not really feeling it at the moment since I myself voted LG too yesterday, and I think that's the primary reason people vote him? Forgive me if I'm wrong, it's 8 in the morning.

 

## Vote: Sully

[Shinori]

6 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

 

Now for my reads. if Shinori still suspects me for the BS reason he gave yesterday then he is high on my list. It is pretty much a ''You think i'm scum? Nonsense! You're the scum'' vote. 

???????????????????????? So what your thoughts on me outside of day 1 shit? Cause this is like a blatant OMGUS.  You literally said if I think your scum based off of one thing, then I'm high on your list. So what if I don't think your scum? Am I randomly nuetral or town? How does that one thing make you think of me as scum?

 

ALSO IM OFFICIALLY DIAMOND SO FUCK YEAH.

Gonna get some chili then I'll be back to post some stuff.

[Baldrick]

Not reading anyone else tonight, but have a list.

Shinori

Mackc (better buddy than Marth)

Marth

Sully (haven't read, but worse than BBM)

Michelaar (quiet but normal)

Via (spammy but normal)

Kirsche (forceful but normal)

Refa (inquisitive but normal)

Bartozio (not shinori's buddy)

BBM (scumreading shinori's and Mackc)

[Michelaar]

31 minutes ago, Shinori said:

???????????????????????? So what your thoughts on me outside of day 1 shit? Cause this is like a blatant OMGUS.  You literally said if I think your scum based off of one thing, then I'm high on your list. So what if I don't think your scum? Am I randomly nuetral or town? How does that one thing make you think of me as scum?

If you have given up then you're still on my list, but not top priority.

[Shinori]

4 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

If you have given up then you're still on my list, but not top priority.

So why and how am I scum?  What are your other priorities? At the moment it seems sully is your top priority but outside of that I don't know.

 Seems like you can understand the baldrick cases but you don't agree with them or something? That's a little on the fence, can't quite understand how your reading him.  What are your other scum reads?

[Percivalé]

43 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

Quote saying that I should die now is kind of annoying. Is that how you usually play mafia games? 

yes

i used to think you were scum and not because you're "inactive" but because it felt like you were active lurking, though it probably wouldn't make much sense for scum to sit and blatantly refuse to cooperate like you were doing i guess but whatever.
but for the record inactive is Not Being Here At All whereas what you were doing was sometimes being here and posting small comments and refusing to do anything else. it was admittedly frustrating me and i figured if you were just going to sit here and lurk but not play why not just get a sub or something. also that comment you made about voting me for annoying you was scummy for reasons i explained yesterday before the lynch. 

##vote: mack

this post is scum. i'm sticking on this vote all day unless someone is literally confirmed scum by the mod today.
people including me have been discussing here and there already what to do about mich and this post came up like... it just feels... very... like almost unnecessary and one of those scum things that scum do where they are like "hey look at this dude he could be scum for <reason anybody else could be scum>. for example i base a large number of my reads on gut and spam often every game and yeah i should not be given a pass for my playstyle just like everyone else shouldn't really but scum and especially people who are fairly new to playing scum (and yes i've done this before as scum too) will do this "okay i am doing this thing but anyway what about this guy" idk i don't know how else to explain it but this plus things people have already said about mack plus his just flying under the radar in general (i've already expressed i think that one of the scum HAS to be one of the lower-key players & going off of what prims said yesterday about most of the more prominent players being townreads, which is an issue i am having too).

i don't know what to think about kirsche, namely because i don't know why he if he were scum would start a prims wagon yesterday then have him nightkilled right after that, HOWEVER i was kind of paranoid about how maybe he knew a fair number of people were scumreading prims & took the opportunity to start a prims wagon and see if it would gain traction, which it did. i nearly almost voted for him too and got kinda hesitant last minute.

[Percivalé]

mich what do you think about the current mack wagon? 
also um tomorrow i might be ~getting high~ and i apologize in advance if i try to play mafia tomorrow loooooooooooool

by the way i guess it wouldn't hurt now to explain that yesterday i was KINDA paranoid about a prims-bbm scumteam which is obviously not true now but maybe this will explain some of my behavior yesterday, i even had it written up in my pm (i'm keeping notes in there) and was super ready to go for the other if one of them flipped scum. elaborating further would be dumb since none of it is relevant now but yeah.

 

[Michelaar]

41 minutes ago, Shinori said:

So why and how am I scum?  What are your other priorities? At the moment it seems sully is your top priority but outside of that I don't know.

 Seems like you can understand the baldrick cases but you don't agree with them or something? That's a little on the fence, can't quite understand how your reading him.  What are your other scum reads?

I still don't like your overly aggresive play (in my eyes), which really isn't neccesary. Yeah, the main argument for Baldrick is that he voted LG or something? I don't really agree and can apply to anyone if that's your way of logic. I don't currently have scum reads outside those 3.

29 minutes ago, Quote said:

mich what do you think about the current mack wagon? 
also um tomorrow i might be ~getting high~ and i apologize in advance if i try to play mafia tomorrow loooooooooooool

by the way i guess it wouldn't hurt now to explain that yesterday i was KINDA paranoid about a prims-bbm scumteam which is obviously not true now but maybe this will explain some of my behavior yesterday, i even had it written up in my pm (i'm keeping notes in there) and was super ready to go for the other if one of them flipped scum. elaborating further would be dumb since none of it is relevant now but yeah.

 

Not really understanding the case on him. Care to explain to me?

[Shinori]

Those 3?

So me Baldick and sully are your only reads?  I'm confused. Who is scum Mich?