SB.

Persona 5 Mafia - Game Over

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1 minute ago, Prims said:

Mich could be scum. He stepped his game up mid-D1 when he got lynched as Godfather too. It just didn't stop his lynch because he had scummy actions on record already. This game is a blank slate. Despite his lurking I don't think he's much worse than my main scumreads, though.

I don't think he really did, though.  If you look at his reads from that game, they were practically nonexistent.

Regardless, he only made those reads after he was pressured, while in this game the only person who pressured him was Mackc2 (and he got a lot of flak for that).

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##unvote

#vote: Gaius

bbbbbbbbbnbnnbbbbbbb

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##vote: Gaius I fucked up the formatting

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I just want a flip right now, I am so done with this day.

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same

also I have experienced in my time so many scum and especially new scum who vote people for being "unhelpful" over having scum intent, because this way they can look like they have town's best interests in mind, but without actually having a scumread. does this make sense because this has happened so many times and this isn't even a joke it's a huge red flag via-brand tested & approved scumtell

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Well this is unfortunate. Least I managed to churn the pot and get some association settled. I didn't honestly expect to survive this phase subbing into the leading wagon with 24 hrs left so any little bit I could do hopefully helps. Im gonna think of stuff to look for after my flip.

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someone being unhelpful/annoying =/= scummy 

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i get what you're saying via but who are you referring too

1 minute ago, Lord Gaius said:

Well this is unfortunate. Least I managed to churn the pot and get some association settled. I didn't honestly expect to survive this phase subbing into the leading wagon with 24 hrs left so any little bit I could do hopefully helps. Im gonna think of stuff to look for after my flip.

in retrospect, i regret asking for a sub for the leading wagon but i didn't want to #sftowns and lynch a power role

mafia sucks

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Most I can really say is pressure Prims for more content tomorrow. 

Gun to my head would be Prims/Sully/one of Bartozio/Mack/Baldrick? I didn't get a chance to make good reads on Marth, Mack, Quote, Kirsche, Baldrick.

Make sure to look at the wagons on myself and Prims in detail, at what times people swapped and who moved where. 

Shinori's largest post on p.13 has a lot of content I agree with (Bartozios waffles and part where he tests the waters before dropping a vote on Shinori) @Refa that is probably the key part

With that I bid you adieu~

P.S. Insert persona 5 joke here (what's a persona)

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Alright, managed to catch up on most thing by now, but excuse me if I missed some details. Since LG is going to get lynched anyway at this point, I'm not going to bother stating my current reads on him. For other people:

Sully still seems to be following the same pattern of voting people who seem be under suspision and all. In my rushed read his defence didn't do much to change my mind there.

Mack hasn't posted while I was away it seems. Most of what I can remember from him is voting mich because of a weird vote he read wrong, and then claiming he kept it there for pressure only to later admit it was bad himself, and checking up on his own wagon to find scum without a reason why it would be there. Oh, and voting Ken later on who he has been sus on for the whole game (which admitedly he did mention several times, but it's still nothing more then a sheep). All of that seems bad and there's nothing really redeeming for now. I might have missed some side reads from him somewhere, but with these beinghis actual votes I'm not suspecting a lot from them if I find some. Would like to hear reads from him soon.

Gonna post now, becausee time

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One last thing: I don't think scum!kirsche pushes Prims as hard as he does with my Lynch being inevitable, he doesn't have to go all out like that for any reason with me being such a valid target

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@refa; it's too much of an opinion, it probably wouldn't convince anyone scumreading Prima not to vote him.

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After gathering again in the morning, you realise that Prims is nowhere to be found.

Prims - ???, Died Night 1

How peculiar.

It is now Day 2. With 11 alive, it takes 4 to lynch and 8 to hammer.

Phase ends in 72 hours.

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So my N1 reread was mostly pointless then since it focused entirely on Prims.

Well here it is if any of you want it. Don't want it to go to complete waste.

Spoiler

Gaius’ comments about how early Ken’s content is that Prims is harping on about really rings true. Since I joined late I kinda forgot how early it was, but page 2?

<BBM>:Why is Prims worse than Baldrick and Bartozio for voteparking Ken? Is it just that he's held to a higher standard of play?

Kind of. Prims was the one that stuck out to me most out of the bunch but I didn’t have a lot of time to read so I can’t say that I found him definitively worse as I kinda completely forgot/skimmed over Bart and Baldrick’s posts. I still find it strange that Prims has behaved very differently this game than what I’d expect from him and his cases have been very lazy and sporadic.

He pointed out my and Vias absence but doesn’t really talk about what little we did write.  He asks Shinori a couple of questions about who he actually reads as scum and why. He made a couple of comments on why Mack might be scum (and seemingly a good alternative to Ken no doubt).  Does he follow up on this? Not really, he admits his point about Shinori calling out crap logic was false but has nothing to say about Shinori’s reads other than stating that he’s “Not really feeling Shinori lynch today overall.” He doesn’t comment on Mack’s posts at the time (he does later though) and instead goes on to defend his Ken park:

When Elie is annoyed with ED1 he puts in work to get everybody talking. Ken was leaving that up to everybody else and not getting engaged in the game even when people were starting to take it seriously.

I saw this and this is fine and all but I’m just not convinced. I think the blame lies with me for choosing Elie and not someone else who dislikes D1, but all other examples I can’t recall. I can’t think of any time scum really is this brazen about it. Scum flake all the time but what Ken did was really ridiculous to be coming from scum. You didn’t really explain why Ken would do that as scum.

he says serious suspicion won't happen until later today, but what's he doing to reach that point? Is he just waiting for everybody to provide content for him?

I’m pretty sure I’ve made this spiel before and it never flipped scum as far as I can recall. The best use of this logic is to apply pressure but if someone isn’t there it isn’t applying pressure.  I don’t think the way Ken went about stating his opinion regarding ED1 as “passive” and I certainly don’t think it makes sense from scum and I’m still not convinced you’ve answered that either. What do scum have to gain from his style of play? Not talking for a day? Let’s say he was stalling to find content to fake content of, surely there’s easier and less aggregating ways of doing so.

I would rather just lynch the slot and not worry about it. I don't feel strongly about any other reads atm.

This is the post that bugs me the most. It is so resigned. This is how scum flake their way through D1 to get content to fake, not with a bang but with a whimper. Prims has secured an easy mislynch for day one. Job done. By spearheading the main wagon it looks as though he has content at a glance, when in reality he has no reads, and no this is not excused by admitting it.

I haven't read anything but the votals but no I'm not getting turbo lynched in the last 6 hours of Day 1 you nitwits, that's straight up atrocious play. Don't expect a claim from me either.

Terrible post. No comments on the logic. Really quick and simple “turbos are bad” no shit but why aren’t you scum? BBM points this out rightly and then here he comes, with the big bold red letters so you know he’s serious.

I’m going to put the rest of this in quotation marks because fuck SF quoting system. This stuff feels more important than just elaborating on what caused my initial vote.

“Stop defending a scummy slot for bad/non-existent reasons” why are they bad/ non-existent? Nothing changed from your posts, my argument didn’t fall into pieces. I was using anecdotal evidence to argue that the Ken lynch was a waste of time and that it would leave us with nothing.

“it's a meta case based on one game, an OC game (this game is not OC) and not the several NOC games I've played in as town, the two most recent of which where I actually put in less effort than I am in this game”

It isn’t entirely meta, just supported by it.

“You might notice the point in the day where I thought the player most likely to be lynched was BBM and switched my vote there until I changed my mind.”

Admittedly I didn’t notice this (still didn’t, even on a reread, good reading comprehension), but I don’t think it really stops your vote on Ken to be a park. I still can’t find it as it doesn’t seem to be on any of the votals and I can’t ISO. Of course I took into consideration you being town, part of my case is me thinking about how you would play as town and how your tone and thought process here seems to differ, and how your play benefits you as scum. 

“Obviously I'm not going to be pushing people who aren't Ken when I think Ken is the scummiest target.”

Why not? Is there something wrong with pushing other people while you have a scumread? This is really dumb because you could have just said “I didn’t find anyone else scummy” but hey just come up with whatever to answer the question I guess.

“I hate his Shinori defense because Shinori is obviously not getting lynched today”

Great breakdown of the logic behind the defence here. 10/10 would sheep.

“Actually I don't know why he didn't just post scum reads on me and Sully to begin with instead of throwing in a bunch of secondary town reads that aren't topical to game state? Potentially padding, maybe.”

Again, another reason to find someone scum that looks nice in paper but isn’t thinking about the practice at all. If Gaius is about to get lynched then of course he is gonna post his reads, especially if they’re of people who’re being considered scum. Prims is once again guilty of what he accused me of: not considering why Gaius would do what he did if he were town.

“Nothing to push. Only one player gets lynched each day anyway. Following flips it becomes easier to find people through connections but one strong read is good enough for D1.”

How is Prims not scum for this, seriously?

“One strong read” you mean a read on a guy from his posts on page two? Yes it becomes easier to find people based on lynch and kill flips but that doesn’t mean you only look at one guy and no one else all phase.

How can town possibly justify this to themselves? He’s more interested in lynching Ken than he is with catching scum. No, they’re not necessarily synonymous because Prims never once thought to himself “I may be wrong” despite being aware that his vote was a park. There’s tunnelling and then there’s complete denial at any possibility of Ken being town. Town do the former, scum the latter.

“What kirsche says here is straight up not true because when a lynched player flips scum, you”

Imma let you finish but I did say that my example isn’t necessarily true but just an example of a type of associative read.

“I do think kirsche is extremely scummy now for pushing the train of thought that you should lynch for associative reads and not scumminess.”

....Except I voted you because

1)      I thought you were scummy <----------- crazy huh

2)      You would give better associative reads than alternatives (like the guy who never posted past the first 24 hours)

3)      BBM’s presence I felt has a greater potential benefit to the town if I’m wrong about him and my doubts were growing.

4)      If you were town you had a greater chance of contributing thanks to my vote.

But yeah, that’s a nice misrep.

“tbh everyone on the Prims wagon should explain how the hell my Ken vote is worse than this.”

Your point about Bart is actually good and I very much look forward to hearing him explain his side of things. Don’t think you can both be scum though, but in the unlikely event that you are town I am thankful you bothered to read someone’s post other than Ken masters because this is potentially a good lead and IIRC Shinori conveniently put all of Bart’s posts in his case.

As for Baldrick IIRC he mentioned that he was gonna keep in mind my thoughts on Ken so that kept me happy with him but I just kind of forgot about his stuff in my original Prims case.

Prims cooling off on Gaius is also surprising and nice to see but could still come from scum setting up D2 reads.

Tl;dr: Prims didn’t show any desire to catching scum until after the pressure was put onto him, but his point about Bart is good and I’m excited to see what he brings to the table in comparison to Mr. Big Red Text.

@Prims: Again, why would scum!Ken actually do what he did so brazenly? Do you have anything to say on Bart’s non-Ken content?

@Bart: Got any scumreads/lynch priority, you said you spsected Mack and Sully but imo those are easy reads to make, what is your opinion on Refa/BBM/Via and why? What was your closing read on Gaius that you didn’t have time to say?

@Baldrick: Can you make like a reads post or something and save me the hassle of rereading you right now will love you forever.

God I fucking hate being wrong now I don't know what to think.

##Vote: Bartozio

Best lead right now because Prims made a good point and that end of day post is kinda meh. Didn't get the same vibe from BBM by his EoD stuff I guess but wasn't really focused on him.

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....

Okay no information about Prims sucks, but I'll think more about that after I get some sleep.

Still stand by what I posted at the end of the previous phase, I would like to hear about @Mackc2 's current scumreads.

I feel Shinori's main content was a casing on me and defending himself. The case on me didn't read scum. There were some things I feel he overexagerated, but the main point was about my limited number of cases and reads, and this didn't feel bad. I also wouldn't suspect scum to make that case after Marth unvoted me and the train seemed to be dying down. What I don't get is that Mack isn't getting the same case on his neck though. You were already sus on him before, he didn't add much good after (his vote on you might not have been super scummy, but I really don't think you can count that as a worthwhile case), so why is he less sus then me, mich and Balderick?

Would also like you to give that Balderick case now @Shinori.

Still sus on Sully ofc, but I feel  I'll get more out of my vote here.

##Vote: Mackc2

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Fuck sake SF.

There's a somewhat short tl;dr at the end of the quote nest but I was too tired to write a detailed one. Hopefully any individual points about my case and what Prims said can be found but feel free to ask if you cba to look through all that because I know I wouldn't.

God I miss ISOs.

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Shinori still needs to explain his read on me if he has one. He didn't like my BBM case (for a dumb reason) but what about my Prims case at the time?

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