Persona 5 Mafia - Game Over

[BBM]

I'm still kind of confused by what you mean but whatever

I guess in reality Marth was voting for both Reasons A and B, but the thing that I dislike about the "bartozio was just sheeping" case (Reason B) is that it's harping on barely-out-of-RVS stuff while ignoring later stuff, although this is more an issue with Marth still keeping his vote there rather than an issue with the initial vote. This is also a problem with Via's Bartozio vote but he has other stuff.

 

[Baldrick]

@Shinori; I truly believe Ken is scum. Marth and Mackc are would-lynch for me, Sully is borderline (their follow-up should push me off the fence).

Don't see a problem with BBM's case progression on Marth. He mentions Marth early and wanting a response. In his first post after Marth responds, he expands on it, and discusses his latest posts.

[Michelaar]

Sorry sorry I left you waiting everyone. I need my beauty sleep. Anyways i'm on the bus to school, so I'm just gonna post of what I just read, i'll make a detailed one latr, kind of braindead too.

Anyway I was really confused why Mack voted me but I understood it when I kept reading the thread, and he doesnt look as scummy anymore, he got out of the spotlight pretty swiftly. Still keeping my eye on him though.

Not really getting the bbm case, to be honest. Sus on Shinori, he got voted by mack because of joining the bandwagon without good reasons, only to ignore what mack just said and change his vote to bbm. If anyone could give me a rundown of the bbm case it would be great. 

I really don't get why Marth's vote is on Bartozio. I really haven't seen Bart doing something sus, unless I missed something? So what is your reasoning Marth?

Sully's read on mack is a bit unrealistic, kind of far'fetched, but I get where he's coming from.

To be honest I haven't seen a lot of the ken case at all so i'll reread later 2day and give my thoughts on that. For now i'll keep my vote on Shinori.

[BBM]

I don't fully understand the reason for your Shinori read, Michelaar. If his initial vote was without good reasons then why is it scummy for him to switch his vote away from there?

 

[Michelaar]

10 minutes ago, BBM said:

I don't fully understand the reason for your Shinori read, Michelaar. If his initial vote was without good reasons then why is it scummy for him to switch his vote away from there?

 

Because he ignores Mack, who just voted on him, and just switches to another person. And wouldn't you know, someone unvoted just before him. 

[SB.]

Votals 1.4

Ken Masters (3): Baldrick, Bartozio, Prims
Mackc2 (2): Refa, SullyMcGully
Bartozio (2):  Marth, Via
Shinori (2): Michelaar, Mackc2
BBM (2): kirsche, Shinori 
Refa (1): Ken Masters
Marth (1): BBM

With 13 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 9 to hammer. You have 36 hours and 50 minutes left in the day.

Edited November 29, 2017 by SB.

[Baldrick]

Hello, Bartozio.

Agree with Michelaar about the timing of Shinori's switch, just as the Mackc wagon was winding down and he was getting flak for it.

Prims, what's your opinion on Shinori?

[Bartozio]

11 hours ago, Quote said:

what do you think about prims's reaction to mack's "obvious joke vote" then?

Kind of overlooked it because a lot of people seemed to take Mack seriously, and prims' other content doesn't look as reactive. In a vacuum it would be just as bad though.

[Bluedoom]

This is hard, I'm going to see some things first. ##Unvote

@kirsche  Yeah I wouldn't vote mack at 3 votes unless I felt I had something stronger that what has already been said.

@BBM Few issues here. Do you still think I'm scum after your banter with Prims? You say that your problem with me now is that I'm keeping my vote on Bartozio, well why shouldn't I? There's still the issue that he didn't post anything non-RVS before that wagonhop but you seem to have decided to this is irrelevant to my vote? Also, you say that you don't like me bringing up the fact that Bart has been mislynched 3 times in a row before this game. Well, where is the scum intent in what I said? That literally destroys any kind of support that I'd want if scum!me is trying to push for a Bart lynch(not talking of his  alignment  here, I don't know what your opinion of associative is), especially if you think that my initial case was weak.

 

 

[Bluedoom]

I admit that I skimmed through Bart's post after his vote. I don't like that he spent most of it on Ken but I appreciate that its more insightful and engages Refa in some discussion regarding Ken. I think the Mack thing is ok but fakeable as mafia. @Bartozio Thoughts on the game atm? Reads list would be cool, even.

I had a sneaking suspicion that Prims might be mafia voteparking on Ken, but Ken isn't playing in a way that I can actually defend any of his actions. I didn't like the part where he votes me, BBM questions him, and he says that he was thinking that I would pose a non-starter question as scum. If it was a reaction test, why would you spoil it before I had the chance to reply? Otherwise, I was fine with his argument with BBM, he's talking about BBM's thought process and why that is alignment indicative and I like that. Probably town? I wasn't expecting stuff in the last couple of pages, tbh.

 

 

[Bartozio]

12 hours ago, Quote said:

prims's response to mack RVS vote was weird because i thought it was just an RVS vote (albeit worded in a bad way i admit but i don't see how it's much different from when i vote on ed1 gut vibe despite prims not posting yet) & as mack explained later it really just was an RVS vote which I like on their front so i think this is something worth mentioning. i dont think it reads like backpedling or whatever i really think it was just a badly-worded rvs vote and as ed1 as the case is i think that between prims-bbm-mack there Might Be A Scum Here which i'm going to look at whenever one of them flips later but right now i'm not putting my vote there yet

I can somewhat understand why you'd be suspicous of prims and bbm over this interaction, but how does mack factor into this? The way you say it makes it sound like you'd think mack is scum if prims and bbm flip town, but I'm not really seeing that. A bad case is a bad case, whether it's coming from town or scum.

@Shinori: You mention you didn't like BBM's initial vote, but didn't you sheep that vote? Can you explain this to me, because it seems a bit odd to say the least.

[Bluedoom]

I don't agree with the Shinori cases. I'm townreading Mich here, but Shinori's vote switch isn't alignment indicative IMO. The momentum of the Mack wagon wasn't really shifting anywhere, I mean you only had the BBM voteswtich from Mack-->Marf, the only other thing I see on page 5 is kirsche's first post in the game, not finding mack scummy. I can't see this somehow convincing Shinori to voteswitch.

[Bartozio]

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

I'll probably change my vote if I get a satisfactory answer for my question, but until then this bothers me more then other people.

@Magnificence Incarnate I'll post full thoughts on people in a bit, but to give the short version for now: I feel Ken and Shinori stand out as the most suspicous by far right now (I already posted my reasons for this really), not agreeing with the case on BBM, his voteswitch made enough sense to me. Prims and Mack feel more like null to me right now, but I'll go into detail about that more later.

I didn't mind your initial case on me, but after that it felt like you were tunneling me quite a bit. You unvoted now and are posting your thoughts on other people, but I'm not really getting who you actually do find sus right now (since you're mostly saying you don't like other cases). If you had to lynch someone right now, would it still be me, or do you also have other scum reads right now?

[Bluedoom]

I wouldn't vote you, but I'm not sure who I'd vote at the moment. Its been too easy playing devil's advocate in my head.

[SullyMcGully]

I am satisfied with Mack's answers... for now. I don't feel too suspicious about Ken, he just seems like a guy who doesn't like others telling him what to do, which might make him more suspicious but doesn't set off any more alarms. So for right now:

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

I agree with Michelaar and Bart; the timing on your votes is suspicious. Do you have a good explanation for this?

[Bluedoom]

Reading further I agree with Refa on page 3: that Sully not voting Ken even though he found him scummy and sticking his RVS vote on Bart look p bad.

I want to expand on the quote of Mack that Refa is referring to on page 5: I feel like he is saying that as a WIFOM excuse for his vote. Like, his vote cannot have scum intent because he'd know as scum that the players in question would not allow a Mich lynch like that.

But it is likely that if he was scum then he just didn't think it through and wanted  to throw shade on someone who is easy to mislynch.

What do you think of Mack's latest post, @Refa ?

Also, to talk more about Sully, I thought that he was being setup as lynchbait because there seemed to be a lot of talk about him compared to Ken or mack, who were wagons at that time. But I don't appreciate his Shinori vote, it doesn't even have the correct reasoning for it.

[Bluedoom]

Like Bart's reason is Shinori's take on BBM's initial vote on Mack.(He sheeped that too, so if he disliked BBM's vote, what compelled him to vote Mack over BBM?) This is a good line of reasoning.

 

Mich's reasoning isn't really great IMO and I've already given my thoughts on that.

[Bluedoom]

@SullyMcGully Do you have an answer for what I've had to say about Shinori so far?

[Bluedoom]

This is hard since usually my inuition's good D1 but I've been getting a lot of nulls here. In any case, ##Vote:SMcG

Vote for reasons in my last couple of post. Also scumreading mack for reasons in my last couple of posts.

Another scumread on BBM though he has also been very active in discussion, which I won't deny, and is throwing me off. Was coming with a townread on him but the case on me doesn't feel like its going anywhere. tl;dr: Picks on semantics of my Bart vote while ignoring that Bart hadn't done anything before then. Misses  the motive behind scum!me pulling off the Bart vote with explanations. Realizes that his earlier assumption about my behaviour is wrong so where is the case going from here?

[BBM]

I never said that my earlier assumption about your behaviour was wrong; I don't know what you mean by that. I said that your vote had more to it than I realized, but it doesn't change the vote not being good? Harping on someone for sheeping just out of RVS is dumb, especially since as Prims pointed out, you would have been doing it too. Where am I picking on semantics?

The switch on Sully from being set up for lynchbait to being scum based on the Shinori vote feels weird to me. Why is that worse than your reasons for townreading him? I have more to say but I'll let Sully respond first.

I do agree with your assessment of the Mich/Bart votes on Shinori though.

However, what bothers me most about Shinori isn't that he switched votes to me but his reasons for scumreading me. Even if he missed my first post about Marth or didn't interpret it as suspicion like Prims, he made the same claims about not pushing my reads about my play as a whole, which is untrue given that half of them to that point were about Mack. Also, I post more often, which naturally means that not all of my posts are going to be about my scumreads. And the rest of the reasons for suspecting me are more wack, as I covered in my initial response to him.

baldrick, why is Ken's refusal to give reads scummy and not just being new?

bartozio, do you still think Ken is scummy?

[BBM]

##Unvote

meh screw it I'm not feeling this anymore; I feel that scum Marth doesn't look for reasons to townread people. Also I misread some of the stuff about Sully and the switch in opinion has more to it than I thought initially.

debating between voting Ken and Shinori but I also need to reread Baldrick. His first few posts were good but the ones on the past few pages have seemed shallow. His reasoning for maintaining the Ken vote as his strongest scumread feels weak as well because I think there are better reasons to scumread Ken than just because Ken's not giving reads. 

Baldrick, what's the reasoning behind the ordering of your scumreads?

[Shinori]

10 hours ago, Michelaar said:

 

Not really getting the bbm case, to be honest. Sus on Shinori, he got voted by mack because of joining the bandwagon without good reasons, only to ignore what mack just said and change his vote to bbm. If anyone could give me a rundown of the bbm case it would be great. 

Out of curiosity what do you expect me to say in response to Mack's case?  He said my vote was weak and was a sheep and it was a sheep it was an early game vote for pressure, the vote wasn't made assuming he would be lynched.  It was a vote made day 1 questioning something that was done to get a response and a reaction from him, which it did.  I did actually comment about that and said that after his posts I was reading him as more town now.  I see zero actual reason to make a post responding to his vote against me when there is nothing for me to say about it.

[Shinori]

3 hours ago, Bartozio said:

I can somewhat understand why you'd be suspicous of prims and bbm over this interaction, but how does mack factor into this? The way you say it makes it sound like you'd think mack is scum if prims and bbm flip town, but I'm not really seeing that. A bad case is a bad case, whether it's coming from town or scum.

@Shinori: You mention you didn't like BBM's initial vote, but didn't you sheep that vote? Can you explain this to me, because it seems a bit odd to say the least.

Didn't say I didn't like his initial vote? I said I didn't like his marth vote.

[BBM]

unfortunately for you guys I have a presentation and report due this evening that I need to finish and practice and a problem set due tomorrow morning that I haven't even started so the rereading might be a while

[Michelaar]

6 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Out of curiosity what do you expect me to say in response to Mack's case?  He said my vote was weak and was a sheep and it was a sheep it was an early game vote for pressure, the vote wasn't made assuming he would be lynched.  It was a vote made day 1 questioning something that was done to get a response and a reaction from him, which it did.  I did actually comment about that and said that after his posts I was reading him as more town now.  I see zero actual reason to make a post responding to his vote against me when there is nothing for me to say about it.

At least acknowledge it instead of ignoring it would have done the trick.