The reason for fire emblems near cancellation and Awakening’s success

[Ottservia]

Okay so recently I’ve wondering about the reason for fire emblem’s decline a few years back and how awakening obtained it’s success. I know the obvious answer is they actually decided to market the game this time but was it really just a matter of marketing. I mean yeah the lack of marketing was certainly true for western countries but what about japan? I mean awakening was going to be the last game period. Not just in the west but of all time.  I dunno It’s just something on my mind.

[X-Naut]

Aside from the marketing the biggest factor is probably the significant shakeup in the series' long established formulas. In some ways it went back to the basics, but in others it tweaked existing mechanics and introduced a few new ones.

[VincentASM]

There's a lot to say, but I'll just mention one thing that's easily forgotten.

I believe Nintendo made an effort to push the game because the Nintendo 3DS wasn't selling so hot near the beginning. Most of the games were remakes, ports or very short or experimental games. A bit like the early DS games. So when Intelligent Systems made a brand new Fire Emblem, Nintendo obviously jumped at the chance to promote it as part of the 3DS's growing library of shiny new software.

[Dragoncat]

1 hour ago, VincentASM said:

There's a lot to say, but I'll just mention one thing that's easily forgotten.

I believe Nintendo made an effort to push the game because the Nintendo 3DS wasn't selling so hot near the beginning. Most of the games were remakes, ports or very short or experimental games. A bit like the early DS games. So when Intelligent Systems made a brand new Fire Emblem, Nintendo obviously jumped at the chance to promote it as part of the 3DS's growing library of shiny new software.

Isn't it the same thing with every console when it first comes out? I mean, the wii had Twilight Princess as a launch title, but that's the only console I can think of that had launch titles that made it sell well.

[omegaxis1]

This guy made a video, and there's a lot of thought put into it. Check it out:

 

[Strawman]

I know casual mode was controversial at the time, but I don't think it should be underestimated how that affected sales, marketing, and accessibility. It might be difficult to quantify, but it was rare that I spoke to any of my video game playing friends (who didn't already play FE) about Fire Emblem and they didn't mention being turned off by perma-death. 

[Hardin]

If you compare the sales of Awakening compared to previous entries, you can see that word of mouth played a big part in why it was successful. Generally speaking, Fire Emblem games prior to Awakening sold to the core fanbase, but people outside just didn't get on board. Awakening stayed in top 20 sales charts for a few months, whereas previous games would typically only stick around for about 3 weeks. 

Saying that "Marketing" is responsible for Awakening being successful and the other games bombing only demonstrates a complete lack of understanding, and intellectual laziness. 

[Dandy Druid]

It was a combo of a few factors- Marketing is probably the one of the biggest, but this FE was also accessible. The Tellius Games + DS remakes weren't exactly easy to find (there weren't many copies made and distributed IIRC). Awakening's distribution had a significant impact on sales. Also, casual mode may have also helped to an extent- it may have drawn in people who aren't necessarily fond of strategy games and younger kids, so that may have widened its appeal to more than just the fanbase that's been here a while.

[Hawkwing]

A number of factors went into Awakenings success. It was well-marketed and spread fast through word-of-mouth, so it wasn't hard to hear about the game, and it was on a recent and convenient system. A lot of people didn't buy the games as they simply didn't know they existed, and even if they did, you had to play half the games on an emulator (or learn Japanese, never mind), or try in vain to find a physical copy. I've only seen a physical copy of Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn once in my entire life, and it personally took me over a year to discover how emulators work.

It also helps that, despite the criticism and hatred thrown at it, Fire Emblem: Awakening is still a very solid strategy game on a system that didn't that many. One can tell that the developers put a lot of heart into the gameplay and worked with a "go out with a bang" attitude, and even if not everything worked, a lot of it did. They inserted a lot of ideas that adhere to the series formula while shaking it up, and manage to pull off some surprisingly subtle call-backs to previous games. Helping the games case is that while a lot of the games criticisms are pointing out legitimate flaws, some of it is up to personal tastes. It's not difficult to see why some people see Awakenings characters as nothing more than "anime tropes," while others manage to see some depth in them, due to the games support system being a double-edged sword. Similarly, both casual and classic mode come with their own pros and cons

Overall, Fire Emblem Awakening was better marketed and easier to obtain than previous Fire Emblem games, while backing up its reputation by being a very solid game in its own right.

[edgelordweeaboo]

it's just marketing. they marketed the game much more heavily than other games and they tried to appeal to more audiences such as the anime/weeaboo audience

[Hardin]

It is not just the marketing, if you look at the sales data, it does not support that conclusion. 

This chart shows the sales trends for Fates and Awakening. If marketing was why Awakening was so successful, you would not see that kind of sales curve. 

[Lau]

Marketing and word of mouth are the big factors, but also the fact that it was on a brand new console which didn't have a lot of good games at the time.

I also think Brawl was a big reason too, despite coming out years before. FE made its debut in Smash with Melee, obviously, but Melee was on the Gamecube, which didn't sell all too well. FE returned for Brawl, which was on the Wii, which sold...a million units, I think? Plus, during the Subspace Emissary, Ike has that whole cutscene, and Marth fights with Meta Knight for a little bit...yeah. You're gonna want to know who the hell those two are. But obviously, the Tellius games and SD were quite difficult to find, so maybe they just waited, until one day, boom, Awakening. "Oh hey, I recognise Fire Emblem, lets buy this game!"

I'm probably wrong, but ah well.

[dragonlordsd]

On 12/4/2017 at 11:29 AM, Otts486 said:

Okay so recently I’ve wondering about the reason for fire emblem’s decline a few years back and how awakening obtained it’s success. I know the obvious answer is they actually decided to market the game this time but was it really just a matter of marketing. I mean yeah the lack of marketing was certainly true for western countries but what about japan? I mean awakening was going to be the last game period. Not just in the west but of all time.  I dunno It’s just something on my mind.

I think other people have pointed it out, but there are three reasons for series nearly got cancelled:

1. Radiant Dawn

2. Shadow Dragon

3. Shin Monsou no Nazo.... you know. 12. I'm not going to try to get that one right.

There are multiple reasons these three failed, but one reason stand above all others: The removal of support conversations.

This is the single biggest factor. In the history of the series, no Fire Emblem game that had traditional C,B,A unique support conversations has ever scored lower than 85 on metacritic. And no Fire Emblem game without them has scored higher than 84 (including Shadows of Valentia and Warriors)

[Hardin]

1 hour ago, dragonlordsd said:

I think other people have pointed it out, but there are three reasons for series nearly got cancelled:

1. Radiant Dawn

2. Shadow Dragon

3. Shin Monsou no Nazo.... you know. 12. I'm not going to try to get that one right.

There are multiple reasons these three failed, but one reason stand above all others: The removal of support conversations.

This is the single biggest factor. In the history of the series, no Fire Emblem game that had traditional C,B,A unique support conversations has ever scored lower than 85 on metacritic. And no Fire Emblem game without them has scored higher than 84 (including Shadows of Valentia and Warriors)

How do you then explain that those three games sold more than Path of Radiance which had supports? 

[dragonlordsd]

17 hours ago, Hardin said:

How do you then explain that those three games sold more than Path of Radiance which had supports? 

Failure isn't determined by sales numbers, it's determined by sales vs. expectations.

Even if a game sold more than it's predecessor, it can still be a failure if it didn't sell enough to cover it's budget, or didn't sell enough to cover it's stock (number produced/number sold, remember, this was the physical media era), or didn't sell as well as their projections.

Edit: Also, what are you talking about? I just checked, and Path of Radiance outsold each of those!!

Edit 2: Well, Shadow Dragon did a little better. But still.

Edited December 14, 2017 by dragonlordsd

[Hardin]

Did you check on VGChartz? 

[Azure Sen]

22 hours ago, dragonlordsd said:

I think other people have pointed it out, but there are three reasons for series nearly got cancelled:

1. Radiant Dawn

2. Shadow Dragon

3. Shin Monsou no Nazo.... you know. 12. I'm not going to try to get that one right.

There are multiple reasons these three failed, but one reason stand above all others: The removal of support conversations.

This is the single biggest factor. In the history of the series, no Fire Emblem game that had traditional C,B,A unique support conversations has ever scored lower than 85 on metacritic. And no Fire Emblem game without them has scored higher than 84 (including Shadows of Valentia and Warriors)

This is patently untrue. New Mystery and arguably Shadow Dragon set the sales benchmark for the rest of the series post-Tellius bombing in Japan, and they certainly weren't considered flops or the series would have been cancelled before Awakening was even a thing. People tend to forget that both these games sold at least 250,000 copies, which is why that was the number put forth as the goal Awakening needed to hit to keep the series going. Hence why I take every claim that Awakening "saved the series" with a grain of salt.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Azure Sen said:

This is patently untrue. New Mystery and arguably Shadow Dragon set the sales benchmark for the rest of the series post-Tellius bombing in Japan, and they certainly weren't considered flops or the series would have been cancelled before Awakening was even a thing. People tend to forget that both these games sold at least 250,000 copies, which is why that was the number put forth as the goal Awakening needed to hit to keep the series going. Hence why I take every claim that Awakening "saved the series" with a grain of salt.

Yeah, New Mystery of the Emblem managed to JUST make the cut. The cancellation could have been abrupt really, but because New Mystery managed to just make it, they managed to at least get one more game with the warning that this might very well be the last, and then they put their all into making a game that was to cram as many references as possible as an homage to everything they loved about Fire Emblem. But then Awakening exploded in popularity and Fire Emblem continued on. 

So it's both New Mystery and Awakening.

[Dandy Druid]

On 12/13/2017 at 2:10 PM, dragonlordsd said:

I think other people have pointed it out, but there are three reasons for series nearly got cancelled:

1. Radiant Dawn

2. Shadow Dragon

3. Shin Monsou no Nazo.... you know. 12. I'm not going to try to get that one right.

There are multiple reasons these three failed, but one reason stand above all others: The removal of support conversations.

This is the single biggest factor. In the history of the series, no Fire Emblem game that had traditional C,B,A unique support conversations has ever scored lower than 85 on metacritic. And no Fire Emblem game without them has scored higher than 84 (including Shadows of Valentia and Warriors)

FE12 had supports though, like actual conversations (CBA). It didn't sell well in comparison to other entries in the series because it was only sold domestically, not internationally. And the reason for this was because RD and SD didn't sell well. I'm also confused by your last statement, because SoV had them too, just a small amount of though; it still contradicts what you said about scoring.

[Slumber]

5 hours ago, Hardin said:

Did you check on VGChartz? 

Don't use VGChartz. They're not the most credible or accurate source.

[Jotari]

I am more curious as to why the series was failing before Awakening. All the games released prior to it were decent games. Why didn't they sell above expectations (I don't think it's soemthing as frivolous as a lack of supports)? I believe the reason New Mystery wasn't localised had more to do with the DS being on it's way out rather than sales. Were people just getting tired with the series at that point?

[Slumber]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

I am more curious as to why the series was failing before Awakening. All the games released prior to it were decent games. Why didn't they sell above expectations (I don't think it's soemthing as frivolous as a lack of supports)? I believe the reason New Mystery wasn't localised had more to do with the DS being on it's way out rather than sales. Were people just getting tired with the series at that point?

Radiant Dawn had a hilariously limited run, and next to no marketing.

SD was more available, but also had dogshit marketing.

[Jotari]

Just now, Slumber said:

Radiant Dawn had a hilariously limited run, and next to no marketing.

SD was more available, but also had dogshit marketing.

I don't know about Japan, but has far as marketing goes, like all the games before Awakening had pisspoor marketing in the west. I never even seen a Fire Embelm game being sold in my country until Radiant Dawn. Yet the series never seemed to be at any risk of cancellation with Sacred Stones or Path of Radiance (to my knowledge).

[Slumber]

Just now, Jotari said:

I don't know about Japan, but has far as marketing goes, like all the games before Awakening had pisspoor marketing in the west. I never even seen a Fire Embelm game being sold in my country until Radiant Dawn. Yet the series never seemed to be at any risk of cancellation with Sacred Stones or Path of Radiance (to my knowledge).

Well, Radiant Dawn also had being a sequel to Path of Radiance, another game that sold poorly, going against it. Shadow Dragon didn't do anything to inspire the fanbase.

Also, for what it's worth, FE7 when it first came here, had pretty decent marketing. There were primetime adds("WHAT HAPPENED TO DORCAS?!"), and it got a lot of push in the RPG/Adventure games that came out around the same time. If you bought the GBA version of A Link to the Past, you got an ad for Fire Emblem. You bought Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, you got an ad for Fire Emblem. You buy Advanced Wars(Which was a surprise hit), you got an ad for Fire Emblem.

FE7, not so surprisingly, was also far and away the best seller in the US prior to Awakening. Nintendo, for whatever reason, just gave up on marketing.

[Azure Sen]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Radiant Dawn had a hilariously limited run, and next to no marketing.

Can we let go of the "Radiant Dawn wasn't marketed well" myth too, at least when it comes to Japanese sales? It's patently untrue, and Radiant Dawn was a Japanese launch title for the Wii specifically meant to move units (source: this Nintendo Dream interview hosted on Serenes). Radiant Dawn simply did not appeal to Japanese tastes. Aside from Ike's recent popularity over there due to Smash, Tellius is still one of the least popular worlds among Japanese fans.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Azure Sen