Weapon refinery - unfair balancing issue!!!

[Hilda]

14 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The buff to breath weapons just means that high-Res melee units now have a use (though admittedly, green is pretty lacking in those).

Firesweep weapons are also an option (though Firesweep Axe doesn't yet exist).

You can also just Dazzling Pain+ them to death. Close Counter Wrys new meta.

you know exactly that Close Counter on any mage against Dragons isnt an option lol.
but yeah i usually deal with Dragons in the form of Azama Dazzling Pain+ savage blow 3x2 (seal and C Slot) or let Clair handle them (with the ecxeption of Fae)

Green actually has a high RES unit in the form of Axezura. She usually takes on Fae/nowi etc in Arena Assault. (omg a Dancer fighting!!!!)

[Clogon]

14 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

While I recently finally understood how much of beast Nowi is, I don't see her and her kind having lot of impact on meta.

This is because they require heavy investment. In the upper echelon of tier 20, I see them quire frequently.

12 minutes ago, Hilda said:

you know exactly that Close Counter on any mage against Dragons isnt an option lol.
but yeah i usually deal with Dragons in the form of Azama Dazzling Pain+ savage blow 3x2 (seal and C Slot) or let Clair handle them (with the ecxeption of Fae)

Green actually has a high RES unit in the form of Axezura. She usually takes on Fae/nowi etc in Arena Assault. (omg a Dancer fighting!!!!)

Like any other EP unit, you could also just let them attack into you while you have WTA. Luckily most of them aren't running Deflect Melee yet to survive any initiation while still being a great EP unit.

Also Ice Dragon isn't saying they don't exist, just that there aren't many. On the top of my head I can only name 7, Hawkeye, Sheena, Camilla, Anna, Titania, Azura and Fae (she kinda counters almost any top tier unit now XD so happy I +10'd mine).

Edited December 6, 2017 by Clogon

[Prince Endriu]

17 hours ago, Kruggov said:

Yeah, it does go by score, but Rank 20 (an to a lesser extent, 19) are filled to the brim with high score teams of whales. IMO, if your average enemy is below 700-something, you have no chance in hell of staying in 19, and to stay in 20 you'll need those 740 teams

I fkin hate Nowi on defense terrain, her defenses are ungodly.

I expect the next tier to be Fjorm+3 Amelias with Slaying Hammers to kill each other with. Or one of them with Grani's shield to screw over those Hammers.

708 points lets you stay in tier 20.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Clogon said:

Just because F2P players can't easily access fully built tanky units doesn't mean that they don't exist. My +10 -HP/+ATK Fae could already survive any +10 +SPD Fury Falcon user (disregarding seals) before 2.0. There are plenty of users that make their units tanky like this guy that made his Stahl a Reinhardt counter:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/7hd30b/magic_is_everythi_wait_nevermind/

The fact muse most units aren't meant to be tanky and the ones that are also have weaknesses doesn't mean that weapon upgrades should break them. +4 DEF/RES is more than enough to help EP units do what they need to do (counter specific units and match-ups) and have an advantage over choosing +ATK and +SPD.

I do not think +4 Def/Res is enough, and nor will giving them more break them. Stahl as a melee Enemy Phase unit requiring large stacks of buffs, supports,  refinement, merges, etc. just to counter Reinhardt does not make him or tanking units overpowered. That just highlights how vastly superior ranged Player Phase units like Reinhardt are who can achieve better performance with less investment and support.

[Charmeleonbrah]

@Prince Endriu I'm pretty sure you meant Elise.  I've fought one in Arena with Gravity+ forged with Dazzling Staff effect, and Wrathful Staff skill equipped.  She ORKOd my Hector, and after Horse Emblem buffs proceeded to one-shot the rest of my Gravity-bound units.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

@Prince Endriu I'm pretty sure you meant Elise.  I've fought one in Arena with Gravity+ forged with Dazzling Staff effect, and Wrathful Staff skill equipped.  She ORKOd my Hector, and after Horse Emblem buffs proceeded to one-shot the rest of my Gravity-bound units.

Beautiful. ;_)

[Charmeleonbrah]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Beautiful. ;_)

I have no idea how that guy managed to get that much SP on Elise.  It wasn't supermerged so I can imagine the epic grindfest in the training tower that took place.

There is a happy ending to this; I was able to run off a 7-in-a-row deathless streak with Big Tiki/Ayra/Hector/Azura.  Tiki essentially took out the entirety of enemy units by camping out on defensive tiles with her 45 defense and QR3. 

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 12:58 AM, Clogon said:

If you are F2P, sure. It is already difficult to ORKO many units thanks to the defense seals. 

One word: Ayra. 

 

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 12:36 PM, Ice Dragon said:

The buff to breath weapons just means that high-Res melee units now have a use (though admittedly, green is pretty lacking in those).

Firesweep weapons are also an option (though Firesweep Axe doesn't yet exist).

You can also just Dazzling Pain+ them to death. Close Counter Wrys new meta.

Huh.  It's like Camilla becomes viable almost by design...also I am thinking the best counter to dragons is other dragons.  As they say, fight fire with fire, or in this case fight fire with Nowi.

[Johann]

Might be slightly off-topic, but in the vein of defensive strategies, I'd like to point out how it's lame that defensive skills (Stances) aren't easily available (if at all) for inheritance, while offensive ones (-Blows) have largely been since the beginning.

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Johann said:

Might be slightly off-topic, but in the vein of defensive strategies, I'd like to point out how it's lame that defensive skills (Stances) aren't easily available (if at all) for inheritance, while offensive ones (-Blows) have largely been since the beginning.

That's because they're new. Give them some time (like half a year).

[Xenomata]

9 minutes ago, Johann said:

Might be slightly off-topic, but in the vein of defensive strategies, I'd like to point out how it's lame that defensive skills (Stances) aren't easily available (if at all) for inheritance, while offensive ones (-Blows) have largely been since the beginning.

Stances didn't exist at the beginning of the game. Closest there were were weapons like Binding Blade that had some sort of Armored/Warding Stance effect built in, and such weapons are considered terrible.

[Johann]

@Ice Dragon @Xenomata Allow me to clarify: They should have been there since day 1 and within at least the 4* pools.

[GinRei]

48 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I have no idea how that guy managed to get that much SP on Elise.  It wasn't supermerged so I can imagine the epic grindfest in the training tower that took place.

If you used them a lot early on, it really isn't difficult.  My Priscilla (no merges at all) had over 7k SP prior to 2.0 just because she was a staple on my pre-CYL horse team.  And only things I'd need to give her now are upgraded heal assist (done), weapon+, and weapon refinement (both on hold due to wanting Gravity+, but not having enough feathers that aren't earmarked for other projects to promote a Lissa to give that to her... also not sure I want to sac any Lissas anymore until I get a 4*+10 for Arena purposes).

Edited December 7, 2017 by GinRei

[XRay]

52 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I have no idea how that guy managed to get that much SP on Elise.  It wasn't supermerged so I can imagine the epic grindfest in the training tower that took place.

My main Elise and Clarine and Priscilla have several thousand SP from healing units that I was grinding. My BB!Lyn maxed her SP several months ago since her staff is super useful.

Edited December 7, 2017 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Johann said:

@Ice Dragon @Xenomata Allow me to clarify: They should have been there since day 1 and within at least the 4* pools.

Before Skill Inheritance was a thing, player-phase units were at much more of a disadvantage than they are now.

[Johann]

20 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Before Skill Inheritance was a thing, player-phase units were at much more of a disadvantage than they are now.

Yeah, fine, post skill inheritance. Just as they added Klein with 4* Deathblow, we ought to have seen 4* units with these defensive skills.

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, Johann said:

Might be slightly off-topic, but in the vein of defensive strategies, I'd like to point out how it's lame that defensive skills (Stances) aren't easily available (if at all) for inheritance, while offensive ones (-Blows) have largely been since the beginning.

this is true, but on the other hand they went out first on introducing more Defense oriented Sacred Seals in the form of Distant Def and Close Def (and various other indirect defenisv seals).

[Johann]

Just now, Hilda said:

this is true, but on the other hand they went out first on introducing more Defense oriented Sacred Seals in the form of Distant Def and Close Def (and various other indirect defenisv seals).

I figure that's mostly a way of making up for the lack of those skills, yeah, though there's the issue of the seals being limited acquisition, upgrade materials, and you can only have 1 of each.

[Ice Dragon]

Just now, Johann said:

Yeah, fine, post skill inheritance. Just as they added Klein with 4* Deathblow, we ought to have seen 4* units with these defensive skills.

The release schedule is likely decided months in advance (to give time for artists and voice actors to create content and developers to implement systems), so it was likely that they did not anticipate player-phase units to be as powerful as they ended up being and simply hadn't had the ability to respond to it very quickly.

[Charmeleonbrah]

Those jerks need to put down the sushi and Red Bull and put Distant Counter sacred seal in the game.

[Hilda]

27 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

Those jerks need to put down the sushi and Red Bull and put Distant Counter sacred seal in the game.

i think this will be the case once Distant Counter Weapons get their upgrade. otherwise you could flush all Distant Counter Weapon units down the toilet drain (with some few ecxeptions).