Would you want children units in Fire Emblem Switch

[Altrosa]

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Um, just what do you mean by Awakening limiting S rank choices??? Because outside of two certain characters, one of whom was the lord, there were no restrictions on marriage.

Exactly? 

I mean, Chrom's very limited, and so is Sumia, but that's less right there and that trickles down and affects everyone. I mean, there is no support chain for Chrom and Miriel, which in turn means Lucina doesn't support Miriel, has no sibling support with Laurent, and Laurent is never Chrom's son.

Awakening's total cast is much smaller, too.

All I'm saying is Fates' gargatuan cast, across two generations and 3 storylines, resulted in some characters getting the short end of the stick with the writing. A smaller cast and a lack of the second gen (and thus a new set of isolated supports and parent supports) could result in the main cast gettimg more care and development, with potentially fewer one-note characters.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Altrosa said:

Exactly? 

I mean, Chrom's very limited, and so is Sumia, but that's less right there and that trickles down and affects everyone. I mean, there is no support chain for Chrom and Miriel, which in turn means Lucina doesn't support Miriel, has no sibling support with Laurent, and Laurent is never Chrom's son.

Awakening's total cast is much smaller, too.

All I'm saying is Fates' gargatuan cast, across two generations and 3 storylines, resulted in some characters getting the short end of the stick with the writing. A smaller cast and a lack of the second gen (and thus a new set of isolated supports and parent supports) could result in the main cast gettimg more care and development, with potentially fewer one-note characters.

But that's only on a small scale. And at the same time, this results in Cynthia being the one child that can potentially be rendered permanently missable. I remember when it was discovered that marrying a female unit who could marry others in Fates with a male avatar resulted in not being able to recruit all of the children - and the whining that ensued.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Altrosa]

But, do at least understand what I mean when I say child units are a lot of trouble for what they are?

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Altrosa said:

But, do at least understand what I mean when I say child units are a lot of trouble for what they are?

To be frank, I would be lying if I didn't say I at least partially agree (though I really must ask what perspective you're asking this from). From a gameplay perspective, though, I kinda like having the extra options, since looking at Fates, I don't have the highest opinions of some of the first gen characters (Odin, Niles, Kaze, Subaki, Silas, Arthur)...

Edited December 21, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[kratoscar2008]

1 hour ago, Altrosa said:

But, do at least understand what I mean when I say child units are a lot of trouble for what they are?

From what? An story or gameplay perspective? If it story then they are not. For instance there are many people that hate reclassing and would rather return to set classes like the older ones on the basis that it gets in the way of making characters varied or contradicts their personality (Like Brady and Noire feeling uselless when they in gameplay can clear maps themselves alone or how Kjelle is canonically the strongest child but gameplay wise she is not). I think Reclassing is one of the best features of the new FEs as it increases the strategy and makes otherwise uselless characters into usable ones and now thanks to Fates new seal system supports now expanded on it. So even tough reclassing goes agaisnt characters characterization i, hence damaging the narrative, i think its inclusion is totally worth it from a gameplay and replay value perspective.

Now with children where the fun is in planning what skills to pass, what character growth to pass, what classes to pass and what hair color to pass makes it have yet another layer of strategy, sure it might affect the story but i replay games for their gameplay and not for their story so thats why i support children to appear again.

[Altrosa]

Just because I'm burnt on one mechanic doesn't mean I think we should roll back to older games. I'm honestly in the complete opposite boat. Newer classes, the reclassing, pair-up, seal upgrades, avatars are all newer things I want continued.

I guess the TDLR of my argument I'd be happy to see the whole child unit series of mechanics go if it means everything else good that Awakening and Fates brought is expanded and improved upon. 

It's just a few facets of child units that I really want to leave behind, so I gonna slap it all in a nice list;

- Story bending to justify fully grown adult children, amassive time skip, time travel, baby dimension, while still having access to original generation (YMMV on this, since most think the deepworlds were silly, but the other two methods are massively plot important, so we'd need a better/new explanation)

-Child units tend to greatly over shadow and over power first generation units, rendering much of the first gen army to nothing more than breeding units (Not a problem if you don't want to use certain units.)

-Having to play a eugenics game with the first gen. Once the best growths are found, you lose much of the strategy, since there will always be a best parent to make the most powerful child (which plays into the above quirk) and parents that destroy a child's potency. (Shipper's woe, since it's not about supports, but also shoehorns units despite the reclassing opening it up. You have a child that's skills favor being a tank, so giving them a frail mage parent is mostly a handicap.)

-Playing for best inheritances defeats the pair-up stat boosts unless you actively use S-ranked partners and their child/ren.  (Again, since it's usually more about stat inheritence on the second gen, getting S-ranks on the units you LIKE to use and work together becomes secondary to making a stronger kid.)

I mean, this is all just that stuff you see when you look up guides, it doesn't stop experimentation or prevent a player from succeeding if they make second gen units that aren't min/maxed. 

I mean, if you care more about hair color, then you do you. :) I mean, I may just see the flaws of the child unit systems more now since in both Awakening and Fates, I greatly preferred the first generation casts. I'm just burnt out on it. (800 hours into Fates will do that. Please help.)

As for an alternative, expand the friendship seals usefulness. A+ ranking units opens up more class options, coupled with S-ranking, so making that more viable and appealing for character builds could give us some of the same strategy as children have.

[Shadow Mir]

55 minutes ago, Altrosa said:

Just because I'm burnt on one mechanic doesn't mean I think we should roll back to older games. I'm honestly in the complete opposite boat. Newer classes, the reclassing, pair-up, seal upgrades, avatars are all newer things I want continued.

I guess the TDLR of my argument I'd be happy to see the whole child unit series of mechanics go if it means everything else good that Awakening and Fates brought is expanded and improved upon. 

It's just a few facets of child units that I really want to leave behind, so I gonna slap it all in a nice list;

- Story bending to justify fully grown adult children, amassive time skip, time travel, baby dimension, while still having access to original generation (YMMV on this, since most think the deepworlds were silly, but the other two methods are massively plot important, so we'd need a better/new explanation)

-Child units tend to greatly over shadow and over power first generation units, rendering much of the first gen army to nothing more than breeding units (Not a problem if you don't want to use certain units.)

-Having to play a eugenics game with the first gen. Once the best growths are found, you lose much of the strategy, since there will always be a best parent to make the most powerful child (which plays into the above quirk) and parents that destroy a child's potency. (Shipper's woe, since it's not about supports, but also shoehorns units despite the reclassing opening it up. You have a child that's skills favor being a tank, so giving them a frail mage parent is mostly a handicap.)

-Playing for best inheritances defeats the pair-up stat boosts unless you actively use S-ranked partners and their child/ren.  (Again, since it's usually more about stat inheritence on the second gen, getting S-ranks on the units you LIKE to use and work together becomes secondary to making a stronger kid.)

I mean, this is all just that stuff you see when you look up guides, it doesn't stop experimentation or prevent a player from succeeding if they make second gen units that aren't min/maxed. 

I mean, if you care more about hair color, then you do you. :) I mean, I may just see the flaws of the child unit systems more now since in both Awakening and Fates, I greatly preferred the first generation casts. I'm just burnt out on it. (800 hours into Fates will do that. Please help.)

As for an alternative, expand the friendship seals usefulness. A+ ranking units opens up more class options, coupled with S-ranking, so making that more viable and appealing for character builds could give us some of the same strategy as children have.

-The first game with child units was also the one where you didn't get to use the first generation alongside them... but that, I must say, has its own issues (in particular, you risk pissing off people who liked the old units and/or don't like the new ones).

-That's kinda true, but I've seen that argued to not always be the case in Fates. (Siegbert won't ever be able to escape being in the shadow of Xander, for example)

-Fair enough. Also, one issue specific to Fates is that because of how the number of men and women that can marry is equal (disregarding Corrin), some suboptimal pairings might end up being forced.

-Fair enough.

As for your preferring the first generation cast, was this as characters or as units?

[Altrosa]

16 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

As for your preferring the first generation cast, was this as characters or as units?

As characters. It's just preference in both cases, but some child units play like gender-swapped versions of their linked parents (or in Geneaology's case, "cute" versions of their parents), so most are a bit boring and uninspired. In both Awakening and Fates, I just feel like first gen supports had more care put into them, including the sets that bond them to their kids.

The second gens end up being, overall, less remarkable as characters as a result. There are definite exceptions, but not many.

That, and the underlying squick factor of marrying your best friend's child. (Owain is hot, but if I were Robin I'd feel like was pursuing my nephew!)

[Vyland]

I wouldn't mind children units if they did something very creative, different and unique with it

But I think the children thing has been long played out for its time.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Vyland

[Nimue]

Although I'd prefer if they didn't return for this entry, I'd be fine with it if Gen 2 focused ONLY on Gen 2 after a timeskip(à la Genealogy).