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What Should Echoes have changed?


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Shadow of Valentia were really proud about how close they stayed true to Gaiden's mechanics. And for the most part I'm glad of that. But there are several things I wish they had changed.

*Looping Dread Fighters (or at least if that had to be a thing, give it to the other classes too).

*Nosferateau beating Doma (I know it's kind of harmless but still...it's just weird).

*Classes being locked to one weapon (if Alm and Priestess couldn't do this then I'd be fine with everyone being mono weapon users. But the fact that using two types exists, makes it just seem limiting on some other classes. Not like it would be that broken or anything, just give you more free rein on what weapons certain units like Paladins and Generals can use)

*Reusing maps (I love Gaiden's maps, but there is a certain level of redunancy in it with maps that are identical half a continent apart. Much like recolour mugshots, it was a forgiveable element of the old days but for the sake of this, I think it should have been updated).

*Sonya and Delthea's status as Witches when controlled by the player (Fates has shown that player Witch's, while good, wouldn't be broken. Warpings fun, I want to do it, and without levelling them up to like 40 to get a spell that's near useless in its effect)

*Playing off the above, the Witch warping mechanic (Giving them free reing to warp anywhere they want and attack basically leaves you're victory or defeat into the hands of the AI's kindness. Never really screwed me over but I still see it as just bad design as you can't really plan around it. Give them a range based on their magic or have it so they can only warp to an ally's side like in Fates or something).

That's what comes off the top of my head for now. What things would you like to see changed?

Edited by Jotari
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For me:

-The maps. They should have been made smaller, have the enemy density boosted and had more objectives. Like the Southern Outpost map could have been seize. The map where you face Berkut for the first time could have been defend/survive for X turns where you were in the center instead of Berkut and co. with constant reinforcements coming in.

-Dread Fighters looping. I know it's a bit petty, but it annoys me.

-Mage, Sage and Priestess move being 4. It should have at least increased to 5. I mean Saint has 5 move.

-Like above but Baron only having 4 move. They should have had 5 move also.

-Dread Fighters having too much move. 6 move would have been enough. It makes them a bit too OP and Greith a pain.

That's about it for me.

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They should have definitely added axes and added at least one new classline to utilize them. I don't even know if I'd want the weapon triangle to reflect this, but the game has you picking up axes that you can't use. And units like Atlas seem like a no-brainer as an Axer.

Revamping some maps would have been nice.

Edited by Slumber
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  • More map variety and objectives. I don't have a problem with "rout the enemy" missions but i believe that the Rise of the Deliverance DLC had varied map objectives. If the DLC can have it, there's no reason why the game shouldn't have had it.
  • Barons, Mages, Sages, and Priestess need 5 mov.
  • Magic Classes should be able to bypass desert terrain nerfs. Would've made the desert maps much less of a pain
  • A new Axe Class. I always found it weird how you can find Axes in this game but it's only for a quest and the rest is just to be sold for money.
  • I know that Dragons are a very rare enemy in the game but Falchion should be able to do bonus damage against them.
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43 minutes ago, Slumber said:

They should have definitely added axes and added at least one new classline to utilize them. I don't even know if I'd want the weapon triangle to reflect this, but the game has you picking up axes that you can't use. And units like Atlas seem like a no-brainer as an Axer.

Revamping some maps would have been nice.

Oh yes, this. Totally this. Add a new unit that's a fighter and give fighter as an option to villagers. Then, give Axes to Generals or Barons on promotion.

On the mono weapon thing, I just find it weird that Rudolph can't use swords even though he used the Falcion to beat Mila.

 

Also Retreat should have enemies respwan. Retreat basically serves as a mid game save that heals all your units the way it currently works.

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24 minutes ago, Motendra said:

Is this true?

Essentially yes. At any point in a player phase of an overworld battle, after like the third chapter or something, you can retreat. All your units are healed and you can go back into the chapter, all enemies you killed are still killed and the remaining return to their aproximate starting positions. And since enemies tend to charge you and have the battle in the middle of the map in this game, you don't even lose that many turns using it (though I still wouldn't abuse it going for a Blitzkreig). I'd definitely rank Retreat among the most broken features in the series.

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I enjoy much of SoV however in some instances I wish they had X aspect changed. Then there are other instances I wish they had stayed truer to the original like how the player doesn't know that the cantor on Celica's route can summon or with how Rudolph is portrayed etc.

The things I would have liked changed are mainly:

1) Give the Soldier line the same movement as the Mercenary. I like the soldier class and it's a unit that makes for a great frontline fighter. However due to how low their movement is you can rarely get them there. At least on Alm's route you can bypass this somewhat with Silque's warping spell, but still I think increasing their movement would have helped a lot.

2) Put some kind of axe fighter in the game even if it's only one I would have greatly appreciated being able to have a Warrior or Berserker unit at my desposal

3) Give us a Wyvern Rider character

4) While I enjoy SoV immensely I really wish all 3rd tier classes has optional weapons that they could wield. Alm gets access to bows on promotion I would have liked to see Dread Fighters, Gold Knights and Barons also receive a new weapon.

5) Give all clerics the Warp spell.

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27 minutes ago, SavageVolug said:

I enjoy much of SoV however in some instances I wish they had X aspect changed. Then there are other instances I wish they had stayed truer to the original like how the player doesn't know that the cantor on Celica's route can summon or with how Rudolph is portrayed etc.

The things I would have liked changed are mainly:

1) Give the Soldier line the same movement as the Mercenary. I like the soldier class and it's a unit that makes for a great frontline fighter. However due to how low their movement is you can rarely get them there. At least on Alm's route you can bypass this somewhat with Silque's warping spell, but still I think increasing their movement would have helped a lot.

2) Put some kind of axe fighter in the game even if it's only one I would have greatly appreciated being able to have a Warrior or Berserker unit at my desposal

3) Give us a Wyvern Rider character

4) While I enjoy SoV immensely I really wish all 3rd tier classes has optional weapons that they could wield. Alm gets access to bows on promotion I would have liked to see Dread Fighters, Gold Knights and Barons also receive a new weapon.

5) Give all clerics the Warp spell.

Speaking of that Cantor, I think it's a shame they didn't make him a boss with a name and a unique portrait. If you're going to treat a sentient enemy with some fanfare, make it a person rather than a generic.

On that note, I think it's an awful shame this game (almost) entirely lacks Boss Convos. Berkut really has nothing important to say to Alm when they fight? Fernand doesn't even regester he's fighting Clive?

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45 minutes ago, Jotari said:

On that note, I think it's an awful shame this game (almost) entirely lacks Boss Convos. Berkut really has nothing important to say to Alm when they fight? Fernand doesn't even regester he's fighting Clive?

This surprised me. This is something I feel like they should've taken advantage of with their new fancy full voice acting, and I believe it could've done wonders. Hell it's one of the best minor parts of the Tellius series, and one of the few snippets of Fates writing that people almost unanimously enjoy is Saizou's boss conversation with Kotaro.

Anyway, for me, the most important things I can think of right now are...

  • The maps - we've literally got several reused maps for no real reason. I don't know much about these things, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a question of needing to save space like on the NES. To make matters worse, a lot of them are too big, with rough terrain making the process longer without compensating for making it more tactical and fun, and there are no missions outside of route and defeat commander.
  • The Cantors - Yet another thing that makes things just take more time without actually really increasing the difficulty. Fighting against never-ending hordes of surprisingly bulky enemies is not fun.
  • The AI - apparently, in an interview, they stated they fixed the AI to be more in line with Gaiden. I don't know what madness claimed them for them to think this was a good idea, but Witches are awful to play against, and you can break the AI in half by abusing a readily available spell, completely negating the threat of the enemy phase.
  • The reveal of Alm's origins - The NES did not have the same capacity to tell more in-depth stories, and gameplay always took center stage. Alm finding out he's Rudolf's son might've worked 25 years ago, but now that you get an excess of evidence and the least subtle foreshadowing ever before confronting the man, it makes Alm come across as stupid for not piecing it together sooner. Having him confront Rudolf about it could've been more emotional and interesting than what we got.

There are many things I'd want to chang with SoV as a whole, but I guess this is just what they should've changed in relation to Gaiden, right?

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42 minutes ago, Thane said:

This surprised me. This is something I feel like they should've taken advantage of with their new fancy full voice acting, and I believe it could've done wonders.

Voice acting might have been the reason their wasn't any convos, as well as less supports than average. More conversations means more voice acting which means higher costs. Granted, I have no idea how much a VA makes, but I imagine they're more expensive than writing the codes for the convos.

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1 minute ago, RedRob said:

Voice acting might have been the reason their wasn't any convos, as well as less supports than average. More conversations means more voice acting which means higher costs. Granted, I have no idea how much a VA makes, but I imagine they're more expensive than writing the codes for the convos.

Sure, I realize that, but they still went with  fully voiced even though it's expensive. Dotting the game with a few more lines would hardly be the straws to break the camel's back.

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Gameplay Changes

-The Chapter 5 maps from FE2 should not have been changed. Those maps had some of the game's more interesting gimmicks and it was honestly said to see that IS simply abandoned them.

-Improve movement of Sages, Priestesses, and Barons to 5

-Decrease movement of Bow Knight to 7, Gold Knight to 8

-Decrease movement penalties granted by swamps and sand

-Remove movement penalties placed onto Mages in Sand

-Grant Barons Wary Fighter instead of Heavy Armor

-Replace reused maps with brand new ones featuring completely different terrain..

-Allow Male and Female villagers to select any one of the game's classes

Story Changes

-Grant every character a minimum of 2 support conversations

-Give Kliff and Faye more dialogue on Alm's Route

-Give Genny more dialogue of Celica's route

-Give Shadow Dragon characters proper cameos in Archenea

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