Are Firesweeps overrated?

[bottlegnomes]

2 hours ago, Hilda said:

Ayra's Special is beyond broken in all terms, even more so coupled with the stat spread.

I encountered today an Ayra +10 in my Arena run that ran:
Wo Dao+ augmented with the attack path.
Regnal Astra
Distant Counter
Vantage
Flexible

This was with a infantery pulse Team, which means her special was ready. none of my units could attack her
Clair woudl get one shot if she would attack her or gets attacked (and she is a blue unit, but has crappy defense)
Brave Ike welp... Green unit, looked also bad for him
Sigurd... he would have survived with the Sword Breaker skill if he wouldnt have been a -HP nature (1 HP left) -_- or would have run Close Defense instead of Distant Counter(she basicly dealt to him 41 dmg which was his HP...), even then he would have lost due to Ayra getting constant buffs. And i couldnt tackle the Team behind because welp... Repostion hell from Ayra herself.
Sadly Azama wasnt there to deal with this situation because he got swaped out for Bonus unit Olivia, but even then the room was to small to operate.

mind you all +10 It was literally the pita and oh shit moment... and this was on the map with the 2 ships where you have literally no fucking space ot avoid. I tried working aroudn it but at some point i was basicly cornered. I managed even to get Clairs iceberg ready, because it actually allows me to one shot Ayra with it, but behold... the upgrade from The Wo dao+ also gives 5 HP which put Ayras HP above the threshold to oneshot her (she survives with 4 HP left)

Know what would've been great to deal with that?

...

Firesweeps 

I regret nothing.

Anyway, I was kind of in the same boat regarding fire sweeps until I gave my Cordelia one. She's still 4* and at the time only had a brave lance, no A skill, and she was okay I guess. I didn't have any flier buffs on my team either, but she had trouble killing things and was in constant danger of getting killed. On a team of 5* Michalis, 5* Valter, and 4* Palla, Cordelia felt like the weak link; mind you none of them save Valter were particularly far along in their builds. I think Palla had a Wo Dao and that was about it. One firesweep lance, not even plus, and she went to being the second best character on the team. After adding Life & Death, the only reason Valter even might still be above is because he can bait physical units.

Edited December 13, 2017 by bottlegnomes

[Lushen]

I think they're overused but not necessarily overrated.  They're pretty damn good.  The real tragedy is windsweep/watersweep.  Those skills just don't make sense (unless you're building a meme Ephraim).  Doubling is significantly more important than the enemy counter attacking 99-100% of the time.  The only time I could see it making sense is with brave weapons but then the spd is too low to do anything with.

[bottlegnomes]

7 minutes ago, Lushen said:

I think they're overused but not necessarily overrated.  They're pretty damn good.  The real tragedy is windsweep/watersweep.  Those skills just don't make sense (unless you're building a meme Ephraim).  Doubling is significantly more important than the enemy counter attacking 99-100% of the time.  The only time I could see it making sense is with brave weapons but then the spd is too low to do anything with.

A couple people have pointed out that it synergizes very well with phantom sped 3 on units who can hit hard but are kind of slow but can have okay speed with some easy buffs, like blade Rein and Leo. I haven't had  a chance to try it, but it sounds good on paper.

[Junkhead]

11 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

A couple people have pointed out that it synergizes very well with phantom sped 3 on units who can hit hard but are kind of slow but can have okay speed with some easy buffs, like blade Rein and Leo. I haven't had  a chance to try it, but it sounds good on paper.

So, defensively? If that's the case, I could see it somewhat work. I was going to suggest Brash Assasult > Desperation, since it just makes them immune to other ranged attackers on player phase (even DC users).

[bottlegnomes]

13 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

So, defensively? If that's the case, I could see it somewhat work. I was going to suggest Brash Assasult > Desperation, since it just makes them immune to other ranged attackers on player phase (even DC users).

Basically yeah. Like for Rein, watersweep and full buffs meant he could pretty much cripple dragons with impunity. In Leo's case, I'd guess he'd want windsweep for all the DC swords and axes since his dragon-killing wouldn't be as effective, but essentially the same principle. Like I said, I haven't gotten a chance to try it, and I'm not sure I'm willing to sack a Josh for windsweep, so don't quote me on anything, but it seems logical on paper.

[Junkhead]

I'm dumb and gave it to Faye and completely forgot it specifically states no doubles ocur (in my case, quads).

[XRay]

4 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

Know what would've been great to deal with that?

...

Firesweeps 

Sacae's Blessing is also great.

3 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

Basically yeah. Like for Rein, watersweep and full buffs meant he could pretty much cripple dragons with impunity. In Leo's case, I'd guess he'd want windsweep for all the DC swords and axes since his dragon-killing wouldn't be as effective, but essentially the same principle. Like I said, I haven't gotten a chance to try it, and I'm not sure I'm willing to sack a Josh for windsweep, so don't quote me on anything, but it seems logical on paper.

Thanks for the idea! I think I will give that set up to my Reinhardt, however, I think dragons will start to run Phantom Speed a lot next too once they get wind of Reinhardt running it.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Windsweep is the meta build for Hector though

[Hilda]

7 hours ago, Ciarre said:

I see more people are seeing the light of wo dao+ Ayra ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Wo dao usually isnt a problem to handle for me, but the combination of Ayra stat + her insane exclusiv special + the upgrade + infantery pulse made it a pita

@bottlegnomes and yes i wished in that moment my Firesweep+ Tana would have bene there ¬.¬

Edited December 13, 2017 by Hilda

[DehNutCase]

7 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

Basically yeah. Like for Rein, watersweep and full buffs meant he could pretty much cripple dragons with impunity. In Leo's case, I'd guess he'd want windsweep for all the DC swords and axes since his dragon-killing wouldn't be as effective, but essentially the same principle. Like I said, I haven't gotten a chance to try it, and I'm not sure I'm willing to sack a Josh for windsweep, so don't quote me on anything, but it seems logical on paper.

-Blade and Cavalry buffs also cripple dragons with impunity---you don't get countered if the other guy's dead.

Leo & Rein has perfect color coverage because Reinhardt is strong enough to OHKO every single unit in the game if color advantage didn't exist. (He doesn't even need his A-slot to do this, which is why I keep going on about his CC build---he sacrifices literally nothing for this, the only people he doesn't kill are people the A-slot doesn't help against anyway.)

Leo is Rein with 3 less Atk, and red.

[Vaximillian]

I wonder if siege tomes like Bolting, Meteor, and Blizzard could be represented as 2-range firesweeps. They can’t counter and be countered in the main series, so it fits.

This would mean Celina (FE8’s Selena), Calill, and Bastian could join the roster too!

[a bear]

1 hour ago, Vaximillian said:

I wonder if siege tomes like Bolting, Meteor, and Blizzard could be represented as 2-range firesweeps. They can’t counter and be countered in the main series, so it fits.

This would mean Celina (FE8’s Selena), Calill, and Bastian could join the roster too!

I wanna see those and turret weapons, what a hoot that'll be

[Cornguy]

15 hours ago, Lushen said:

I think they're overused but not necessarily overrated.  They're pretty damn good.  The real tragedy is windsweep/watersweep.  Those skills just don't make sense (unless you're building a meme Ephraim).  Doubling is significantly more important than the enemy counter attacking 99-100% of the time.  The only time I could see it making sense is with brave weapons but then the spd is too low to do anything with.

Would it theoretically work on a slow unit with phantom speed? Or does phantom speed only work against wind/water sweep, rather than with it? Obviously the unit can't be too slow, but if they're in that weird speed stat where they never double anyway, I could picture it being niche.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Cornguy said:

Would it theoretically work on a slow unit with phantom speed? Or does phantom speed only work against wind/water sweep, rather than with it? Obviously the unit can't be too slow, but if they're in that weird speed stat where they never double anyway, I could picture it being niche.

You can, but the problem is where you want your cutoff to be.

For example, you need 34 Spd to Windsweep vanilla +Spd Ayra, but 39 Spd to Windsweep +Spd Ayra running Life and Death 3, at which point you're most definitely no longer "slow".

[bottlegnomes]

21 hours ago, XRay said:

Sacae's Blessing is also great.

Thanks for the idea! I think I will give that set up to my Reinhardt, however, I think dragons will start to run Phantom Speed a lot next too once they get wind of Reinhardt running it.

Yeah, if I didn't have a million other projects that were more important and rather limited resources I'd totally give it a try. But I feel like I should actually finish building out my flier and armor teams and making some more okay characters great rather than making an already amazing character a little more amazing. But yeah, it does sound like a lot of fun.

Funny thing is, I actually had to go back and read your Rein topic because I could've sworn I saw it in there or that you'd mentioned it at one point in one topic or another.

20 hours ago, Hilda said:

and yes i wished in that moment my Firesweep+ Tana would have bene there ¬.¬

I know the feeling all too well. There've been more than a few times where I was like, shit I wish TA Raven+ Cecilia was here. Also, I envy your firesweep Tana 

18 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

-Blade and Cavalry buffs also cripple dragons with impunity---you don't get countered if the other guy's dead.

Leo & Rein has perfect color coverage because Reinhardt is strong enough to OHKO every single unit in the game if color advantage didn't exist. (He doesn't even need his A-slot to do this, which is why I keep going on about his CC build---he sacrifices literally nothing for this, the only people he doesn't kill are people the A-slot doesn't help against anyway.)

Leo is Rein with 3 less Atk, and red.

Oh, no disagreement on CC being better. Again, only I've only thought about these on paper/read XRay's topic, but CC Rein sounds stupid good, like to the point where I'd consider killing a Takumi as soon as I got him just for it even though he'd be the first one I'd ever have gotten and I like to always have at least one of every character I've gotten. This was more just an interesting build that actually seemed functional and happened to stick in my mind. Mostly I remember it because a friend and I had just earlier that day been wondering about uses for the sweep skills.

Edited December 14, 2017 by bottlegnomes

[XRay]

3 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

Funny thing is, I actually had to go back and read your Rein topic because I could've sworn I saw it in there or that you'd mentioned it at one point in one topic or another.

I added it in there after I read about it. Good builds needs to be shared!

[Charmeleonbrah]

@Soul~! I'm hoping to summon Tana on this current banner so I can run this 'sweep build:

Firesweep Lance+

Reposition

Moonbow

Life and Death 3

Hit and Run

Quickened Pulse Sacred Seal

 

With a +Atk nature and flier buffs she'll be a monstah.

[Junkhead]

2 hours ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

@Soul~! I'm hoping to summon Tana on this current banner so I can run this 'sweep build:

Firesweep Lance+

Reposition

Moonbow

Life and Death 3

Hit and Run

Quickened Pulse Sacred Seal

 

With a +Atk nature and flier buffs she'll be a monstah.

Part of me wants a Tana becausee giant ponytails are kawaii as shit.

But that's not a smart idea.

Also, I have like some sort of Quad fetish or something.

[Charmeleonbrah]

13 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

Part of me wants a Tana becausee giant ponytails are kawaii as shit.

But that's not a smart idea.

Also, I have like some sort of Quad fetish or something.

I like the Quad/Desperation build better too, but Camilla and Cordelia already have that moveset for me.  Also I want Tana because she's one of my faves from Sacred Stones. 

Recently in Arena, I fought a Cordelia with Firesweep Lance+, Galeforce, Hit and Run, and Quickened Pulse with a dancer, and that was hell lol.

[bottlegnomes]

20 hours ago, XRay said:

I added it in there after I read about it. Good builds needs to be shared!

Glad I could be of service. I just wish I could take the credit for coming up with it. I was just sort of theory crafting at work today and even a -spd Rein if you gave him L&D3 would be hitting 30/35 depending on tome even prior to cav buffs, which seems like it'd give some good room to work with. Granted it would neuter what durability he does have. I didn't really get to test anything out, just ran through some numbers in my head, so I'll have to check out your updated post to see what you came up with.

5 hours ago, Soul~! said:

Part of me wants a Tana becausee giant ponytails are kawaii as shit.

But that's not a smart idea.

Same here. I'm really tempted to pull for both Amelia and especially Tana because, agreed, that ponytail is fantastic, but I feel like I should save for the Christmas banner :\

Edited December 15, 2017 by bottlegnomes

[XRay]

Just now, bottlegnomes said:

Glad I could be of service. I just wish I could take the credit for coming up with it. I was just sort of theory crafting at work today and even a -spd Rein if you gave him L&D3 would be hitting 30/35 depending on tome even prior to cav buffs, which seems like it'd give some good room to work with. Granted it would neuter what durability he does have.

No problem. I will add in your name.

[bottlegnomes]

1 minute ago, XRay said:

No problem. I will add in your name.

Don't worry about it. If anything, I just wish I could remember who mentioned it to me so you could give them credit.

Edit: Oh rereading my earlier post, it wasn't the best phrasing. I meant that I wish I could claim that I'd come up with it because it does sound sweet. But alas, I'm just passing along information.

Edited December 15, 2017 by bottlegnomes

[Junkhead]

14 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

 :\

I'm saving for the Christmas Banner :/

[bottlegnomes]

7 hours ago, Soul~! said:

I'm saving for the Christmas Banner :/

At least after seeing how adorable Lissa is, it's been easier.

[Junkhead]

2 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

At least after seeing how adorable Lissa is, it's been easier.

I don't think she looks adorable. : $