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FCC plans to repeal net neutrality this thursday


Elibean Spaceman
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11 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

Then be tactful. Say "I stand by net neutrality and appreciate your support, but I have other concerns. For instance, I personally feel that the representative's viewpoint towards this particular issue is misguided based on such and such a thing that I've researched and read."

And so on. I really don't know what point you're necessarily making, because these complaints seem solvable by an application of basic social tact and common sense which I know you have.

As I said, it's personal.  In other words, trying to get someone in my position to call is not going to work.  The best you can do is make your point and move on, because I am NOT going to change my mind.

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Then why bring it up if it’s not worth discussing to you? You just went from “okay, I don’t want to do it because reasons” to “stop trying to change my mind.” It defeats the purpose of a discussion forum to tell me to stop and shut up.

If that’s your ultimate point then why did you even bring it up in the first place? Come on, I know you know way better than to soapbox like that then aggressively tell me to stop calling out (what I view as) a rather flimsy argument, and anything posted in a public forum is deserving of scrutiny.

Edited by Lord Raven
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28 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

Then why bring it up if it’s not worth discussing to you? You just went from “okay, I don’t want to do it because reasons” to “stop trying to change my mind.” It defeats the purpose of a discussion forum to tell me to stop and shut up.

If that’s your ultimate point then why did you even bring it up in the first place? Come on, I know you know way better than to soapbox like that then aggressively tell me to stop calling out (what I view as) a rather flimsy argument, and anything posted in a public forum is deserving of scrutiny.

Because calling representatives isn't a thing for everyone.  I see it as completely unnecessary and detrimental in my specific case.

The ones I'd call were those that I didn't elect and were against net neutrality.

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44 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Because calling representatives isn't a thing for everyone.  I see it as completely unnecessary and detrimental in my specific case.

The ones I'd call were those that I didn't elect and were against net neutrality.

Then you should still make your voice heard. I’m annoyed that your view is “I don’t want to do it” under the implication that it is inherently useless when continuous public pressure is beneficial, regardless of whether or not you in particular elected your local official.

I have to call Arizona Republicans who I definitely didn’t vote in but they’re my local representatives and that is the state I live in most of the year. Their purpose is to listen to the constituents and that kind of pressure (if done by most — and it’s best not to assume others will do it for you) will make them fear their seat. Being part of this process is definitely better than indifference, and your local house representative is an even better person to contact because the house does not have the partisanship issues that the senate will have.

This was part of the reason why healthcare died (Republicans actually were under significant pressure and only voted knowing it would die before it got to the president) and this is part of the reason senators like Flake are retiring after this cycle ends. This kind of civic duty is more beneficial to you than you think.

If you don’t personally care to do it, then clearly and plainly state your reasons rather than remaining vague. As it stands, you’re currently preaching a sense of indifference for no reason other than you not wanting to contact your officials. If you honestly do not want to, then I am not requiring you to, but my advice is for people to ask “what can I do?”

Class action lobbying agencies are also great causes to donate to, holding politicians feet to the fire in town hall meetings and active vigilance and contact is significantly better than actively doing nothing even in the situation where you do not feel your voice is useful.

in what way is it “not a thing” for everyone anyway? I seriously do not understand the point you are making other than “well I don’t want to do it, because I hate my representative.”

EDIT: I am also not saying you need to call every rep in your state, only the ones you personally elect or the ones in the district you reside. In my case, it’s two representatives and four senators due to my fluid living situation.

Edited by Lord Raven
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5 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

in what way is it “not a thing” for everyone anyway? I seriously do not understand the point you are making other than “well I don’t want to do it, because I hate my representative.”

There's a variety of reasons, some of which are more personal than others.  Hawaii is a small island, and those that have been here for several generations have ties all over the damn place.  If you've been keeping track of my posts all of these years, you'll have a vague idea why.

This, too, is something you'll need to accept, if your end goal is to advocate talking to representatives, whether it be about net neutrality or some other big issue in the future.  Not everyone will want to, and pushing them will make things worse.  If you encounter another person like me, let it go.

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My Rep dismissed a protest of locals in my district as people being brought in from out of state, and is running for Bob Corker's senate seat, so I don't see her telling off Ajit Pai. Not to mention Tennessee tippee-toes the party line outside of Memphis and Nashville. I have no reason to call my Rep if she: one, doesn't give a shit about my opinion; two, isn't going to be reelected because she's on the campaign trail; three, is a Republican in a deep red state; and four, is part of the greater problem in this country. Eclipse is not wrong in saying she doesn't recommend calling especially when all it will do me is jack shit. 

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2 hours ago, eclipse said:

There's a variety of reasons, some of which are more personal than others.  Hawaii is a small island, and those that have been here for several generations have ties all over the damn place.  If you've been keeping track of my posts all of these years, you'll have a vague idea why.

This, too, is something you'll need to accept, if your end goal is to advocate talking to representatives, whether it be about net neutrality or some other big issue in the future.  Not everyone will want to, and pushing them will make things worse.  If you encounter another person like me, let it go.

A) You will need to spell it out for me every single time. I sincerely do not remember every single detail.

B) Okay? I wasn't saying everyone will want to, I'm saying that if you want to do something or try something, here are a few suggestions that I recommend. You're telling me to let it go when your argument is literally "not everyone wants to," to which I did not suggest if you do not want to, do it anyway. I am not against not doing stuff, I am against arguments I perceive to be weak, like yours. I have brought up arguments which show why your argument against it is weak, while acknowledging that people may not want to call representatives anyway. There is nothing wrong with not doing something; there is something wrong with implying it will be futile anyway, when that is not necessarily true.

2 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

My Rep dismissed a protest of locals in my district as people being brought in from out of state, and is running for Bob Corker's senate seat, so I don't see her telling off Ajit Pai. Not to mention Tennessee tippee-toes the party line outside of Memphis and Nashville. I have no reason to call my Rep if she: one, doesn't give a shit about my opinion; two, isn't going to be reelected because she's on the campaign trail; three, is a Republican in a deep red state; and four, is part of the greater problem in this country. Eclipse is not wrong in saying she doesn't recommend calling especially when all it will do me is jack shit. 

This is why you continue to press the issue no matter what they try. Mail letters, email the campaign, organize a group protest for town halls and learn how to do it within legal means. I am not saying to do these things because I do not have time to do some of the things I suggest, I am saying that there are plenty of options given we live in a liberal democracy that swears by the first amendment. College campuses are great ways to participate in things like this.

I merely counter arguments I perceive to be lacking in good faith or are inadequate reasons. Legitimately lacking time or energy to do these things is 100% reasonable, but saying it won't work or it's futile or feels futile is not. Regardless, continual re-assurance helps the cause if your congressman votes with your viewpoint, to help ensure that he's fighting the good fight.

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1 hour ago, Lord Raven said:

A) You will need to spell it out for me every single time. I sincerely do not remember every single detail.

B) Okay? I wasn't saying everyone will want to, I'm saying that if you want to do something or try something, here are a few suggestions that I recommend. You're telling me to let it go when your argument is literally "not everyone wants to," to which I did not suggest if you do not want to, do it anyway. I am not against not doing stuff, I am against arguments I perceive to be weak, like yours. I have brought up arguments which show why your argument against it is weak, while acknowledging that people may not want to call representatives anyway. There is nothing wrong with not doing something; there is something wrong with implying it will be futile anyway, when that is not necessarily true.

This is why you continue to press the issue no matter what they try. Mail letters, email the campaign, organize a group protest for town halls and learn how to do it within legal means. I am not saying to do these things because I do not have time to do some of the things I suggest, I am saying that there are plenty of options given we live in a liberal democracy that swears by the first amendment. College campuses are great ways to participate in things like this.

I merely counter arguments I perceive to be lacking in good faith or are inadequate reasons. Legitimately lacking time or energy to do these things is 100% reasonable, but saying it won't work or it's futile or feels futile is not. Regardless, continual re-assurance helps the cause if your congressman votes with your viewpoint, to help ensure that he's fighting the good fight.

Dude.

Part of arguing is listening to your opponent.  You are not going to win this, full stop.

If you really want to sway people, LISTEN.  I will not be swayed.  To further argue is literally wasting your time.  I don't care how "weak" you think my arguments are - quite frankly, my full reasons are none of your business.  I offered another viewpoint, but you'd rather get me to your side - which is not going to happen.

Consider this an exercise in future arguments, if you're serious about making people call their representatives.  I am not alone in my sentiments, and by continually attacking, you're going to convince those in my position NOT to do what you want.

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9 hours ago, eclipse said:

Dude.

Part of arguing is listening to your opponent.  You are not going to win this, full stop.

If you really want to sway people, LISTEN.  I will not be swayed.  To further argue is literally wasting your time.  I don't care how "weak" you think my arguments are - quite frankly, my full reasons are none of your business.  I offered another viewpoint, but you'd rather get me to your side - which is not going to happen.

Consider this an exercise in future arguments, if you're serious about making people call their representatives.  I am not alone in my sentiments, and by continually attacking, you're going to convince those in my position NOT to do what you want.

I am not attempting to convince you. Debate will never convince the other side. I don’t care about “winning,” either, since you’re giving me almost nothing to learn about. If you post something in public it is subject to scrutiny which is part of the purpose of this board, and if you are not interested in continuing then you should not reply. I am also convinced you are not reading what I am saying given the implication that you’re saying I’m telling you to do things; you put out blatantly weak arguments as to why, refuse to specify reasons, and then say “I will not be swayed and fuck off.” As far as I know I am not harassing you, insulting you, treating you like crap; I’m having a discussion and you are attacking my points with nothing substantial.

Ultimately the purpose of debate is learning and convincing a neutral party that is looking in. Your claims are either lacking in substance or not correct. If you post, you should expect scrutiny for a weak argument. That is the purpose of SD. Actively saying “I will not be swayed” instead of “okay I understand but I won’t do it though because I don’t want to and Im tired” and being standoffish about this is the very antithesis of SD.

I am listening to you, I disagree, so I’m specifying why. Stop pretending I’m not and do not lecture me on something I am already doing. I’m not trying to win anything, you are actively refusing to participate which is a soapbox. I don’t even care if people want to call their reps or not; i have specifically stated IF YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING HERE ARE SUGGESTIONS AND THEY DO ACTUALLY WORK. Which part of this is contentious exactly and when did I say otherwise?

If you’re saying “this reason is why you don’t call them” and I’m saying “no, that’s not true, here’s more reason why,” that’s not me saying “you should call your reps,” that’s me saying “that’s a flimsy reason so don’t let this stop you from calling reps if you want to make a difference.”

the keyword is want. You are actively refusing to listen to that part.

 

Pair of EDITs:

Coming in with a mentality of “I will not have my mind changed” is horrible for discussion because it means you have a point in mind and you will absolutely not budge. I personally have seen many of the points being made and disagree and I highly disagree, and expressing it. There is nothing wrong with this, but if someone brings up a good point then I will reconsider my point. As it stands, nothing you’ve said makes me reconsider.

Furthermore, you are accusing me of not listening still and you’re using weak arguments in public. Do not be mad if someone calls you out on it. It’s in the SD ruled and guidelines. Do not get mad if someone calls it out, says it’s weak and has explained why it’s weak. If you were listening you’d realize I’m not forcing you to do ANYTHING, and refusing to lay out your reasoning is also very very bad for discussion and shows you’re only trying to be contrary as opposed to making a valid, working point and shows you’re disinterested in discussion. Do not lecture me on form when you cannot use good form yourself.

Edited by Lord Raven
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you should know by now that eclipse only posts to teach you a lesson about whatever lol.

@deeply partisan state argument: probably true. inaction only enables that, though. if you're content with the status quo, go ahead and do nothing. if not, do what you can. it's that simple.

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