Does IS care too much about new players and neglect long-time fans?

[Prince Endriu]

The warriors maps are currently rerun. Unfortunately its just for sp for those who have already completed them. Kind of boring for me atm. I dont want to argue that they should have made them available for everyone to earn orbs but at least they could have added some quests - sort of like they do when the re-release GHB.

I have argued a lot of times that IS could be more creative when it comes to quests - as I believe this could be easily done. Why didnt they provide some quests? Maybe they have a limit on free orbs per month that they can give out but there is so many more currencies right now.

What do you guys think? Are they running out of ideas? Could they be more creative? Should they have released additional warriors maps sets for those who have already completed them?

Sometimes I think they care way too much about new players - especially when it comes to re-runs of GHB battles, I mean whats the problem of at least giving out those 2k feathers for seasoned players? IMO they should provide more content for experienced players. New grand hero battles have become pretty rare - and I am afraid we will be seeing more and more re-runs in the future.

[Othin]

The Warriors maps are the most effective training areas that have ever shown up. They've valuable to all players even without quests, and I don't see any reason to believe they're replacing anything meaningful.

As for the GHB reruns, providing additional copies of the limited GHB units is always handy, as well as the free orbs. I'm not about to complain about them not giving more rewards for redoing the maps I've already done without any additional restrictions: I've already done that with a far weaker team, so it doesn't prove anything. Although I do think they could stand to introduce a difficulty level above Infernal by now.

BHB reruns are a bit silly, but only when they seem to be taking the place of something more meaningful.

Personally, as a long-time player, I already have most of the things I need. New players joining now have missed a lot of free orbs and other items and have a long way to catch up: working to make that easier is perfectly understandable, and is important for the game's long-term health.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Othin

[Anacybele]

I think they care too much about new players and ignore their long-time fans too much, yeah.

There is SO much 3DS pandering that it's ridiculous. And then they throw us older fans a bone on occasion. Not acceptable. At this rate, I may stop playing FE all together because I don't feel like IS cares much about the older titles anymore.

Seasonal banners are nearly all 3DS characters. Echoes was milked to hell when it came out and I saw plenty of people get tired of it. Heroes started out with a majority of characters being 3DS. FE Warriors is almost all Awakening and Fates and only shoved Lyn and Celica in there as again, a bone to throw older fans.

Like IS often says "oh yeah, older games exist... Let's just throw this little bit in here for them" Seriously?

Edited December 14, 2017 by Anacybele

[Stroud]

I think the title confuses some readers.

So you mean new player in term of fe Hero players and not FE in general. 

I think Reissue is not a bad thing. They could have put in some quests for the warriors map that we could at least get 5 orbs and something else.
And a friend did not play heroes for quite a long time, so he is really glad about it. 

A TT reissue would be better, because we all have something from it and another BK would be nice.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Stroud

[Harvey]

17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I think they care too much about new players and ignore their long-time fans too much, yeah.

There is SO much 3DS pandering that it's ridiculous. And then they throw us older fans a bone on occasion. Not acceptable. At this rate, I may stop playing FE all together because I don't feel like IS cares much about the older titles anymore.

Seasonal banners are nearly all 3DS characters. Echoes was milked to hell when it came out and I saw plenty of people get tired of it. Heroes started out with a majority of characters being 3DS. FE Warriors is almost all Awakening and Fates and only shoved Lyn and Celica in there as again, a bone to throw older fans.

Like IS often says "oh yeah, older games exist... Let's just throw this little bit in here for them" Seriously?

Um...we just had a remake of gaiden which was the most faithful remake of the original game. 

Heroes is not a game that appeals to any newcomer btw. Its just a way to market Fire Emblem brand itself better.

 

[GinRei]

34 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

Sometimes I think they care way too much about new players - especially when it comes to re-runs of GHB battles, I mean whats the problem of at least giving out those 2k feathers for seasoned players? IMO they should provide more content for experienced players. New grand hero battles have become pretty rare - and I am afraid we will be seeing more and more re-runs in the future.

I feel this is less caring more about new players and more that they just don't know how/what to implement that can actually give long-term gameplay.  They honestly really screwed themselves by making it so the only "ascension" items are feathers and badges.  No variety, and thus no way to introduce a new currency time sink to grind for.  When they DO implement a new currency (such as refining stones or sacred coins), they time gate it rather than effort gate it so you still have nothing to do.

So... yeah.  Get used to it, I guess?  Because without new game modes, nothing is going to change on this front.

 

15 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I think they care too much about new players and ignore their long-time fans too much, yeah.

There is SO much 3DS pandering that it's ridiculous. And then they throw us older fans a bone on occasion. Not acceptable. At this rate, I may stop playing FE all together because I don't feel like IS cares much about the older titles anymore.

Did you read the post or just the thread title?  Because this is in no way an old fan vs new fan thing, it's old FEH players vs new FEH players.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Harvey said:

Um...we just had a remake of gaiden which was the most faithful remake of the original game. 

Heroes is not a game that appeals to any newcomer btw. Its just a way to market Fire Emblem brand itself better.

A way to market more 3DS/new FEs, sure. It still gives way less to fans who love older games more than the 3DS ones.

[Gebby]

No, not really. The Warriors maps are fantastic, they are undeniably the best way to grind out SP we've ever seen, and that's very valuable. even without extra orbs.

These reruns are mainly a means to bring older content to newer players, like the mini TT with masked Marth and Quickened Pulse. They're in no way malicious towards older players.

[Othin]

39 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Um...we just had a remake of gaiden which was the most faithful remake of the original game. 

Heroes is not a game that appeals to any newcomer btw. Its just a way to market Fire Emblem brand itself better.

 

I've seen lots of people with little or no investment in the main series get really into Heroes. For me, involvement with the main series is a big part of the appeal, but it's not universal.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Othin

[Infinite Dreams]

Nah, if anything, I think bringing back the Warriors maps shows that they really listen to us.  Those maps are so helpful for SP grinding.

However, I'm not really into the BHB re-runs.  Those are lame. 

I don't feel like they favour new players.  More new content would always be welcome, though! 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Infinite Dreams

[Kruggov]

30 minutes ago, Gebby said:

No, not really. The Warriors maps are fantastic, they are undeniably the best way to grind out SP we've ever seen, and that's very valuable. even without extra orbs.

These reruns are mainly a means to bring older content to newer players, like the mini TT with masked Marth and Quickened Pulse. They're in no way malicious towards older players.

Well, the mini TT might've also been an apology for all the problems of the first TT (I mean, you had to spend ALL stamina you got during that TT on it to get all rewards). As for GHB reruns, I'm still waiting on Xander/Camus coming back. I mean, FRobin/Narcian/Michalis were on their... fourth run? IIRC, and all others except Arvis were rerun at least once (even fkin Berkut who is only useful for his lance and Ward Cavalry, while being an absolute bitch to get). They're not even the top Cavalry dogs anymore, with Sigurd/Fury 6 Eldigan/Brave Roy being better Sword Cavs than Xander

[EricaofRenais]

The Warriors maps coming back is great for everyone I have a long list of units that need SP so I can give them forged weapons and the Warriors maps are the best way to do that for the amount of stamina used.  As I remember most players wanted the Warriors maps to be a permanent part of the game because they are so useful.  I can live without extra quests for the Warriors maps because of how useful they are, but it would have been nice to get forge items while grinding SP.  As to Heroes pandering more to new players over old, I feel like they strike a pretty good balance for the most part.  I just wish they would make some new GHB units soon, since I have a long list of villains I want in the game such as Lyon from SS.  BHB I am not that fond of but hey free orbs are free orbs, but reruns of those are annoying to me.  As to GHB reruns while I am a little annoyed at some of them being rerun more then twice at least I get skills or merge fodder out of it so I don't mind too much.

[Prince Endriu]

Not saying the warriors maps are bad or anything - its just the game has too many content droughts.  they release amelia and tana battle - I completed all three using up 100 stamina. I guess thats it then for now. 

I wish they would provide daily quests - not just the ones they do already - which Imo are pretty brainless. But something like those monthly quests which have you complete a chapter and give you like 300 feathers or 3 stamina potions - not saying that would be super cool but those daily quests are so boring - defeat 20 units? Wow.

 

[Reality]

I started playing the game only 2 weeks ago, and my initial goal was just to get through all the Squad Assaults - Most fun I had with the game.

However, it didn't take as long as I wanted it too, and now I've expanded my goal toward doing the Lunatic Chain Challenges. 

Personally I feel like special maps range in quality between the more boring Lunatic CCs and the more interesting SA - but I have a hard time getting excited for some of them (Tempest Trials / Voting Gauntlent) due to them not focusing on map design that much... 

I can definitely see where people who've been with the game since April feel like they are running out of things to do - The pace of Actual new content as opposed re-runs is a little slow, especially considering that (the longtime players) will have much more powerful teams than someone like me, who has to make do with rag-tag units....  So for them, even when new content is released, they can get through it much faster than expected. 

I think that FEH 's main challenge in the future will be player retention - and it can only really be handled with either "shake ups" or increasing the number of difficult maps - 

Expanding Squad Assault is obvious, with the only delay seemingly due to not knowing what seal to give as a reward- but the same Main story 1-1 to 5-1 or Paralogue 1-1 to 5-1 thing could be done without too much of a stretch. Ideally they put in some traps/tricks against common player builds. 

I also kind of think that more chaotic or restricted modes could add strategy - but then again having a "preset team" set of maps kind of goes against the core design philoosophy of the game, even if it would protect the maps against buff emblem teams and force people to work on ground-up strategies. You do see a little bit of the fun of working with limited or psedo random resoucres at times when ASKR trio or daily rotation heroes are given quests / the voting gauntlent if you play it at level 40. But at the end of the day, that experience seems to disappear for long-time players as they approach optimization. 

It does seem like the game gears you toward focusing more and more on Arena/Arena Assault or fighting community scores as you transition to being a long-time player, (discounting self-imposed stuff like 4 star no inheritance) but I wish that there was another option for things to do as a long term player who has cleared most of the content. Not that I'll have to worry about that for another 2 weeks at the rate I'm going through the Chain Challenges.

TLDR: Harder is better, add Infernal difficulties for everything that currently caps at Lunatic

[GinRei]

1 hour ago, Gebby said:

These reruns are mainly a means to bring older content to newer players, like the mini TT with masked Marth and Quickened Pulse. They're in no way malicious towards older players.

Except they replace "new" content that older players want.  And older players get nearly nothing, if not nothing, from it.  While not malicious (as that would imply they're doing it specifically to cause harm to older players), it's definitely done knowing and not caring that older players gain nothing from it.

36 minutes ago, Reality said:

I think that FEH 's main challenge in the future will be player retention - and it can only really be handled with either "shake ups" or increasing the number of difficult maps - 

They're hoping to retain players purely through the hope of them getting their favorite unit(s) and through arena competition.  The former for word of mouth and free promotions, the latter for the whales and their money.  There's basically no story to speak of and the "monthly grinds" to keep people busy are repetitive as hell (TT and VG).  We'll see if they decide to expand to make "single player" more expansive or if they'll continue to rely on these modes.

[Charmeleonbrah]

I know for me, I've played this game almost every day since I downloaded the app this summer.  When I started, I was legitimately excited when I summoned new units like Beruka, Oboro, Camilla, etc. as well as characters from older games that I never played.  My first five star, Summer Tiki, I thought was so good at the time.  She mowed down most of the beginning chapters.  Now, even if I summon a unit I really wanted, I automatically check their IVs.  If it is a suboptimal nature, it's like taking the air out of the balloon.  So basically I've done everything there is to do in the game (Story chapters, Paralogues, Chain Challenges, Squad Assault), and there isn't much to do besides Arena, Arena Assault, and the occasional BHB/GHB/TT.  My team is to the point where even Infernal difficulty is not super challenging.

TLDR; if you're a nerd like me (and you probably are if you're on this forum), we played this game alot, got a ton of OP characters, beat everything there is to beat, and are bored now.  @Prince Endriu you could always download Heroes on another phone/OS I suppose.

[thecrimsonflash]

in my opinion, new players are going to need all the help they can get especially if they are free to play, being here since launch, I have plenty of units, and some may be surprised to hear that I have not spent any money on this game, I see no reason to cater to people like me who have plenty of resources to work with.

[Prince Endriu]

16 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I know for me, I've played this game almost every day since I downloaded the app this summer.  When I started, I was legitimately excited when I summoned new units like Beruka, Oboro, Camilla, etc. as well as characters from older games that I never played.  My first five star, Summer Tiki, I thought was so good at the time.  She mowed down most of the beginning chapters.  Now, even if I summon a unit I really wanted, I automatically check their IVs.  If it is a suboptimal nature, it's like taking the air out of the balloon.  So basically I've done everything there is to do in the game (Story chapters, Paralogues, Chain Challenges, Squad Assault), and there isn't much to do besides Arena, Arena Assault, and the occasional BHB/GHB/TT.  My team is to the point where even Infernal difficulty is not super challenging.

TLDR; if you're a nerd like me (and you probably are if you're on this forum), we played this game alot, got a ton of OP characters, beat everything there is to beat, and are bored now.  @Prince Endriu you could always download Heroes on another phone/OS I suppose.

And  what would be the point of starting all over. I couldnt think of anything more boring.

Let me put it this way. If you support a game by playing it or even spending money on it you expect something in return: Gameplay! I know its f2p but some people spent money on it so its not like IS is doing some charity fanservice here.

[Charmeleonbrah]

6 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

And  what would be the point of starting all over. I couldnt think of anything more boring.

Let me put it this way. If you support a game by playing it or even spending money on it you expect something in return: Gameplay! I know its f2p but some people spent money on it so its not like IS is doing some charity fanservice here.

I do think lack of content could eventually drive the oldheads away from the game.  My point though, is that there is a lot of content already in the game, it's just that as seasoned players we have cleared through all the maps already.  I'd estimate I've put somewhere between 100-200 hours into this game, which is more than most games I have played.  With that much investment, it was only inevitable that I would run out of things to do. 

I wouldn't mind DLC maps aimed at the hardcore though.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

I also kind of think that more chaotic or restricted modes could add strategy - but then again having a "preset team" set of maps kind of goes against the core design philoosophy of the game, even if it would protect the maps against buff emblem teams and force people to work on ground-up strategies.

Actually, the biggest problem with pre-set teams is the fact that once it's solved by one player, it's solved by everyone.

 

 

 

[TadpoleSuperHero]

2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

A way to market more 3DS/new FEs, sure. It still gives way less to fans who love older games more than the 3DS ones.

The 3DS games sell more. Newer games are always more marketable. And each new game since Awakening has sold WAY more than any FE game before it on a scale that's completely insane. 

Why do they focus more on the newest games? Because that's what the majority of the FE fanbase now knows. Fans of the older games, and especially fans of the older games who ALSO don't like the 3DS games, are a huge minority. You can complain all you like, but from a business AND fanbase standpoint, focusing on the newer games makes a lot of sense. 

(They also have dozens of characters from FE 1-10 in heroes, and something like 20 or more each from Archanea and Elibe, so... I don't know how they're ignoring fans of older games or FE's history lol)

By the way, I started the series with the GBA and loved it for a long time before Awakening. And I can understand why some older fans are disgruntled by how the series has changed. But the hatred and anger at the focus on newer games is hilarious to me. Logically, it makes sense. And just look at many other series. They change. If you don't like it, you don't have to be mad about it. Just stick to the games you like. The ones you enjoy will always be there (and be the same, since they're from an era before DLC and online updating so they'll never change! Yay!)

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, TadpoleSuperHero said:

The 3DS games sell more. Newer games are always more marketable. And each new game since Awakening has sold WAY more than any FE game before it on a scale that's completely insane. 

Why do they focus more on the newest games? Because that's what the majority of the FE fanbase now knows. Fans of the older games, and especially fans of the older games who ALSO don't like the 3DS games, are a huge minority. You can complain all you like, but from a business AND fanbase standpoint, focusing on the newer games makes a lot of sense. 

(They also have dozens of characters from FE 1-10 in heroes, and something like 20 or more each from Archanea and Elibe, so... I don't know how they're ignoring fans of older games or FE's history lol)

What about characters from older games who are still super popular and known by the fanbase though? Ike, Hector, Roy, Eirika, etc? Lyn and Caeda got a seasonal alt, so why can't other older characters who are just as popular? That's all I ask, really.

[Othin]

45 minutes ago, GinRei said:

Except they replace "new" content that older players want.  And older players get nearly nothing, if not nothing, from it.  While not malicious (as that would imply they're doing it specifically to cause harm to older players), it's definitely done knowing and not caring that older players gain nothing from it.

Do you think if they hadn't rerun the Warriors maps, we'd be getting something new instead?

The Warriors maps rerun wasn't even on the month's schedule they posted, just a fun little bonus they threw in. And a very, very welcome one at that.

[Prince Endriu]

43 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I do think lack of content could eventually drive the oldheads away from the game.  My point though, is that there is a lot of content already in the game, it's just that as seasoned players we have cleared through all the maps already.  I'd estimate I've put somewhere between 100-200 hours into this game, which is more than most games I have played.  With that much investment, it was only inevitable that I would run out of things to do. 

I wouldn't mind DLC maps aimed at the hardcore though.

Dlc maps? Paying for maps? I think they have a premium payment system already. Its an f2p game. Even though I paid for orbs I wouldnt want to see players alienated who didnt. I see this as a community.

My point is, thats actually quite easy to add diversity to the game and they dont. Like I said daily quests based on the maps and modes already out, that would be cool - why is it so hard for IS? A daily surprise map/quest would spice things up. Truth be told I already get annoyed with those quest progress updates when I do my daily arena runs. 4 out of 20, 8 out of 20. Who cares its just 1000 crystals or shards and its everyday the same.

I could write better quests for them. Why not do something like win an arena battle on advanced with a flyer only team? Could be tough with blyn meta. 

Or complete a 7streak win on aa without a dancer on advanced - of course this one shouldnt be a daily quest - rather a monthly - and with proper rewards.

All I am saying is there is so much possible here - and its not that complicated. Writing a quest and adding it to the game shouldnt cost that much I guess.

Just btw - why not revamp those old grand hero battles? With different maps and different units? Or make a bound grand hero battle? 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Prince Endriu

[GinRei]

39 minutes ago, Othin said:

Do you think if they hadn't rerun the Warriors maps, we'd be getting something new instead?

The Warriors maps rerun wasn't even on the month's schedule they posted, just a fun little bonus they threw in. And a very, very welcome one at that.

I was talking more about the "actual" reruns, like the BHB.  Older players definitely don't get nothing from the Warriors maps, considering how good it is for SP farming.

If only it didn't come out right at the same time as Ereshkigal's event in FGO.