New characters who could (canonically) fill rare gameplay niches

[EricaofRenais]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Isn't Jaffar's personal?

Since I have never pulled him I forgot about his weapon.  I was thinking of "S" class legendary weapons mostly, which is why I was mostly thinking of Sothe, I added Kaze as an after thought.  

[Rapier]

Laguz, which would basically work as manaketes that hit def instead of res.

More armored mages, like older Alvis. They wasted a perfect opportunity of making him the first of this class, but they had to give the trophy to a purely fanservice version of a fanservice character. Hooray!

Multi-class characters that can equip either a red weapon (and turn red) or a blue weapon (and turn blue), or vice versa, or whichever other color combination you want.

More axe knights. Hi, Lex and Kieran.

Characters whose weapon reverse the weapon triangle for them, although it counts less as "new characters" and more as "new weapons".

Witches

Alternately, it'd be nice to have monster enemies (like FE8, 13 and 14).

 

[bottlegnomes]

3 hours ago, Rapier said:

More armored mages, like older Alvis. They wasted a perfect opportunity of making him the first of this class, but they had to give the trophy to a purely fanservice version of a fanservice character. Hooray!

Henry?

I'd like to see some more sword dragons like Ashnard or Glenn.

Actually, in terms of appearance it wouldn't make a ton of sense, but in terms of stats, Limstella or Nergal would work pretty well as armored mages. Limstella could be blue or green and Nergal could be red.

Edited January 5, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Punished Dayni]

3 hours ago, Rapier said:

Laguz, which would basically work as manaketes that hit def instead of res.

I kind of feel like that idea's shot in the foot a bit because of weapon refinery, unless they just give them the same upgrade.

Obligatory mentions of Reina, Yukimara and I think that Nils would be a nice green dragon, while Myrrh could be any imo, probably green if Nils isn't.

[Tarilaan]

1 hour ago, Dayni said:

Yukimara

You know, thinking on it, they could make Yukimura even more unique by making him a mounted dagger user. I know the Mechanist can use both dagger and bow, but dagger'd be a very exclusive niche.

I do agree with the sentiment people have had with regards to Reina (Bow Flier) and Aversa (Flying mage). I think I saw somebody suggest Dheginsea as an Armored Breath user somewhere. There're also Reyson and Leanne for flying refreshers. If you consider the different flying beasts as different there's also Jill for a Wyvern Lance and Ashnard for a Wyvern Sword. Bow cavalry's got the Nomad (Sue, Sin, Rath) and Bow Knight (Astrid) to pull from, not counting classes that can take it as a secondary like in PoR. Aside from all that, I'd still love for Miciah to have Thani be effective against Armor/Cavalry. We don't have any vs armor tomes, and with the Christmas units, they're getting a lot more durable to both damage types.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Tarilaan

[Ice Dragon]

On 1/4/2018 at 8:12 PM, Tarilaan said:

I think I saw somebody suggest Dheginsea as an Armored Breath user somewhere. There're also Reyson and Leanne for flying refreshers.

Dheginhansea (Armored, red strike)

Weapon: Black Breath (16 Mt, Distant Counter, negates effective damage, slows Special trigger by 2)
Assist: none
Special: Dragon Fang / Blazing Light
Passive A: Steady Breath
Passive B: Mantle (Guard 3, Renewal 3)
Passive C: Ward Strikes

 

On 1/4/2018 at 6:44 PM, Dayni said:

I kind of feel like that idea's shot in the foot a bit because of weapon refinery, unless they just give them the same upgrade.

If strikes get the ability to target the lower defense stat for melee-range opponents, though...

[Dark Holy Elf]

Dheginsea negating effective damage would be a bit weird when he's vulnerable to Wyrmslayers in his own game (as well as the dragons' class weakness of lightning magic). . I'd rather save somthing like that saved for Grima or Medeus if they ever get in the game, since they're dragons who are immune to the standard dragonslaying weapons of their games (though not Falchion) if memory serves.

On 1/4/2018 at 4:25 PM, bottlegnomes said:

Actually, in terms of appearance it wouldn't make a ton of sense, but in terms of stats, Limstella or Nergal would work pretty well as armored mages. Limstella could be blue or green and Nergal could be red.

Yeah it'd fit their stats well for sure (and Lyon as well). Limstella even specifically has a special version of the Sage class because she breaks their Def/Res caps, IIRC. As for appearance... well, after the Christmas banner, it's hard to argue that anyone is too lightly armoured for the armour designation to me. <.<

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Dheginsea negating effective damage would be a bit weird when he's vulnerable to Wyrmslayers in his own game (as well as the dragons' class weakness of lightning magic).

Our weapons in Heroes aren't blessed by Yune.

[bottlegnomes]

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yeah it'd fit their stats well for sure (and Lyon as well). Limstella even specifically has a special version of the Sage class because she breaks their Def/Res caps, IIRC. As for appearance... well, after the Christmas banner, it's hard to argue that anyone is too lightly armoured for the armour designation to me. <.<

Oh, yeah, forgot about Lyon. He'd be a good one too.

And yep on Limstella; she has 24 def and 27 res, though interestingly only in the normal modes. On hard modes she has the default female sage caps of 21 def and 25 res for whatever reason. Probably a bug in HM bonuses that no one had the time or cared enough to fix.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Our weapons in Heroes aren't blessed by Yune.

Wouldn't that make more sense for mantle to give that effect then?

Edited January 7, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Ice Dragon]

24 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Wouldn't that make more sense for mantle to give that effect then?

Let's not completely break the game, now.

[bottlegnomes]

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Let's not completely break the game, now.

I'd personally be a fan of having Sephiran and he has mantle where it divides the enemy's attack by seven before factoring defense, but as a side-effect, you can't equip offensive skills or any sort of damaging skill if there'd even be any that are usable for him. Give him like 0 attack and a bunch of everything else. Then make him a TT reward character so everyone has an unkillable healer that's incapable of doing any damage. Arena would be absolute hell. It'd be great.

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 1/7/2018 at 8:19 AM, bottlegnomes said:

I'd personally be a fan of having Sephiran and he has mantle where it divides the enemy's attack by seven before factoring defense, but as a side-effect, you can't equip offensive skills or any sort of damaging skill if there'd even be any that are usable for him. Give him like 0 attack and a bunch of everything else. Then make him a TT reward character so everyone has an unkillable healer that's incapable of doing any damage. Arena would be absolute hell. It'd be great.

One, you forgot the Rudol Gem as a Skill, since they turned the Recover and Follow Up/Pursuit Rings into Skills, might as well turn this totally forgettable item into a Skill. (Astrid better get the Knight Ward while we're at it.) Him giving it to Sanaki felt a little forced, and they could have just raised his Def cap by 10 for the same effect, but restricting Sephiran's Def cap to 25 has a basis in his highly understandable physical frailty.

His battle map could make an easy GHB. It's all flat samey looking terrain but varied in the effects the Wardwood, Cover, and Healstone tiles have. Making an enemy only warp anywhere Skill and giving all of Sephiran's minions a sacrifice themselves skill when he is about to get a fatal hit sounds workable.

[bottlegnomes]

59 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

One, you forgot the Rudol Gem as a Skill, since they turned the Recover and Follow Up/Pursuit Rings into Skills, might as well turn this totally forgettable item into a Skill. (Astrid better get the Knight Ward while we're at it.) Him giving it to Sanaki felt a little forced, and they could have just raised his Def cap by 10 for the same effect, but restricting Sephiran's Def cap to 25 has a basis in his highly understandable physical frailty.

His battle map could make an easy GHB. It's all flat samey looking terrain but varied in the effects the Wardwood, Cover, and Healstone tiles have. Making an enemy only warp anywhere Skill and giving all of Sephiran's minions a sacrifice themselves skill when he is about to get a fatal hit sounds workable.

Really? I actually kind of liked it. It made Sanaki not die to a physical sneeze and was an example of their father/daughter relationship. It would've been nice for it to exist for more than one chapter for sure though, and does seem like kind of an afterthought as is.

Anyway, yeah, that'd be perfect. Then even more could get dumped into res so he'd be super unkillable. 

For his GHB, have there be some story event where Yune shows up to bless you and the blessing only lasts the length of the chapter so it's actually beatable. Or have some objective besides route, and probably not defend. Maybe like a size map or something silly like talk to him 3 times.

[MilodicMellodi]

I'd be super hyped for different Breath niches. Breath Flier, Breath Armored, and Breath Cavalry would all bring more balance to the game. Units with multiple weaknesses, but strength to back up those weaknesses; you'd have more ways to take them down, but you'd have a tough (not impossible) fight if you didn't have those units. It'd make people think more about what units they should send in.

When you think about it, Laguz could fill these spots. The Bird Tribe would take Flier, Beast Tribe would take Cavalry, and the Dragon Tribe would take Armored. The first two are obvious, being that the Birds can fly and the Beasts are the most agile. The Dragons, being extremely similar to Manaketes (Dragon Infantry), would take the Armored spot because dragons scales are extremely durable. The reason Dragon Laguz and not Manaketes would take this spot is because Manaketes spend more time human than dragon and would therefore not be as connected to their draconian side as they are to their human side. Besides, blame it on the fact the older games were way better but Dragon Laguz are far better than Manaketes.

I used to say Claws would be a good way to introduce Laguz, but a simpler and more balanced way to do it would be to give certain Laguz a Breath that does physical damage instead. I'd also used to say that Ashnard would be a perfect example of a Dragon Flier, but in reality his weapon Gurgurant would make him a likelier Sword unit (hopefully Flier). So, there's my opinion~

[AndrewMcC00l]

I saw somebody once say that Lief could be added as a Red Sword who becomes a Blue Tome when attacked at range, and Nanna as a Red Sword who becomes a Red Tome at range to reflect the Light/Earth sword. My dream scenario is that Lief is added as a Master Knight even if he could just use the Silver + versions of other weapons, but I don't think we'll ever get to that level of power-creep.

Duma could fit as a physical Manakete. They could put in the Laguz with their timer mechanic to make them different, but with how fast paced the game is I doubt many people would use them.

Knoll, Silque, or even Lyon could be added as summoners. Instead of fighting themselves, they generate a random unit to attack for them. The summon would match the star ranking, level, and amount of merges of the opponent, but otherwise has random skills, class, and weapons.

Edited January 10, 2018 by AndrewMcC00l

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, AndrewMcC00l said:

I saw somebody once say that Lief could be added as a Red Sword who becomes a Blue Tome when attacked at range, and Nanna as a Red Sword who becomes a Red Tome at range to reflect the Light/Earth sword.

I know I've suggested this at least once for Leaf and Petrine.

Light Sword: 16 Mt. Distant Counter. When attacked at range 2, unit is considered a blue tome in combat.

Flame Lance: 16 Mt if unique, 11 Mt if inheritable (as "Flame Lance+"). Distant Counter. When attacked at range 2, unit is considered a red tome in combat.

This means the unit would be vulnerable to the corresponding Tomebreaker skill when attacked at range, but no longer vulnerable to Swordbreaker or Lancebreaker, respectively. Because the effect only occurs in combat, Sword Experience/Valor and Lance Valor would still apply and not R Tome Valor and B Tome Experience/Valor.

Earth Sword technically casts the light magic version of Nosferatu/Resire, so it would also be a blue tome.

 

16 minutes ago, AndrewMcC00l said:

They could put in the Laguz with their timer mechanic to make them different, but with how fast paced the game is I doubt many people would use them.

The time doesn't really work well with the pacing of the game, so it would make the most sense to treat them like any other unit.

There's also the fact that dragonstone weapons have different mechanics in different games with FE3's dragonstones (use the dragonstone as an item to transform, user stays transformed for a set number of turns and has an infinite-use breath weapon) being very similar to Laguz with the Wildheart skill (transforms for free by using an action menu command, user stays transformed until their gauge depletes and has an infinite-use strike weapon), so it wouldn't be out of the question to make Laguz behave just like any other unit.

 

11 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

I'd be super hyped for different Breath niches.

Oktoberfest Fargus with Ale Breath.