mampfoids Awakening Beginner Questions

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Nah, have you seen the amount of mooks that run around with 1~2-range axes and javelins? That's the big part of why 1~2-range weapons are important. Yeah, there's also bows and mages, but they tend to only come around in force in a handful of maps that are in mid-late game (there's basically exactly two story maps where mage density is high enough to be an issue—17 and 23) when the Dual Strike death machine is going for anyone trained. A reasonably trained flier can also tank a forged Silver Bow without dying, though taking that hit is obviously pretty bad. However, Avoid bonuses get so dumb in the mid-early-to-mid-late game that evasion tanking is actually legit until enemies start running around with double forges and Hit +10/20. Dual Strikes get reasonably reliable around the B-rank mark if you're just aiming for 1 strike out of 2 attempts (which you really don't need more than the one 90% of the time, even on the Lunatics).

But I'm not talking about lowmanning? Unless you consider having 5 able combatants lowmanning, but that's a very funny definition, considering you'll typically get 5-6 people pulling ahead of the pack as front-line fighters in any main series game unless you're purposefully sandbagging yourself. 14 slots is way more than can reasonably get full combat EXP and 5 leads with 5 pair-up partners (who can stay relevant enough if their DSs are landing kill shots every now and then) with 3 staffers and Olivia is a very strong highman or full deploy comp. Olivia ends up being the only one who can never take combat because the staffers get enough staff EXP that they can reasonably contribute attacks if they need to.

Well, the Falcon Knights do typically want to be brawling, even if it's not on the absolute main line. Therefore, they'd like someone else to put the rallies on them, not sit around rallying other people. I guess there might be a few niche cases where they can charge into the fray and rally someone to put them over a benchmark for doubling, but that's really specific when chances are the Falcon Knight can get more out of spending her turn initiating on the enemy.

I haven't played Awakening recently, I'll admit...but I don't really see them as that worrisome unless they're using the high-end throwing weapons. As for forged Silver Bows, they're survivable.... If you're a wyvern, that is (pegasi are pretty much doomed to hit the ground like a sack of bricks if they're hit), and even they don't want to try their luck with the illegal forged weapons. Or if you have Iote's Shield, which is DLC. Otherwise? Fuhgeddaboudit. As for dual strikes, that's a coin flip, and needless to say, that could go either way. And iono about you, but I'm not nearly as willing to rely on evade for survival after having played Fates.

I don't really see Galeforce being relevant long enough to do much of anything without it, frankly... especially if you're trying to get it on someone not named Sumia, Cordelia or Cynthia since they need 35 levels minimum to get it.

Like I said, I personally think that in and of itself is rather specific.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I haven't played Awakening recently, I'll admit...but I don't really see them as that worrisome unless they're using the high-end throwing weapons. As for forged Silver Bows, they're survivable.... If you're a wyvern, that is (pegasi are pretty much doomed to hit the ground like a sack of bricks if they're hit), and even they don't want to try their luck with the illegal forged weapons. Or if you have Iote's Shield, which is DLC. Otherwise? Fuhgeddaboudit. As for dual strikes, that's a coin flip, and needless to say, that could go either way. And iono about you, but I'm not nearly as willing to rely on evade for survival after having played Fates.

I don't really see Galeforce being relevant long enough to do much of anything without it, frankly... especially if you're trying to get it on someone not named Sumia, Cordelia or Cynthia since they need 35 levels minimum to get it.

Like I said, I personally think that in and of itself is rather specific.

They're typically not threats to the front-line tanks, no, but you still want to counter-kill them because the front-liners are going to want to move ahead and if there's multiple of the 1~2-range enemies, then they can't be as easily PPed to remove the threat range that prevents staffer/Olivia from safely advancing with the front-liners. They can also end up body blocking the front-liners from something else that they want to kill on PP.

Wyverns survive more easily, but named pegasi don't go down so easily, either (you can generally count on bow kills against enemy pegasi, though). Most of the player flier units get strong enough where if they're not neglected, they can take a hit from a forged Silver Bow and survive. It's liable to take 80% of their HP (more like 30%ish if it's Robin, though), but it's possible. If the unit is up to snuff, there's a pretty good chance they won't take the hit in the first place. It's usually a little better than a coin flip for each individual strike, yes, but player units should generally be doubling, so a B-rank support will usually give something a bit over a 75% chance of getting at least one DS for each engage. It's not guaranteed, of course, but significantly less lame than running around with a melee weapon and guaranteeing that those ranged enemies don't die, period.

Also, Fates is by far not a fair comparison when it comes to evasion in Awakening, since Fates's 1.5RN heavily nerfed dodge tanking. I'm not big on taking chances, either, but Awakening runs True Hit and has a lot of skills that give a rather lot of flat Avoid bonuses, in addition to easily attained auras and the fact that player units can get crazy Spd and Luk stats. All this culminates in having enemies with 10-20 listed hit as early as C6-7 and main front-liners easily able to push that to 0 against unpromoted enemies in the mid game. You don't want to keep this as your long-term plan if playing one of the Lunatics, of course, because enemies will suddenly push that back up to 30-40 with their hackforges and Hit+ skills in the late game, but units will have had ample time to build solid concrete defenses by then (usually—for those who may point out that I've been stuck with ~25 Def/Res going into some late L+ runs, those are major outliers).

You forgot Robin in there. Veteran allows Robin to get it even faster despite needing at least one reclass. Sumia and Cordelia also make very strong vanguards if properly supported for extra Str and Def. Morgan and any other kid of Robin's can also easily have it. Cordelia and Sumia can also pass it along, if necessary. That's a pretty wide spread of fighters, so I don't see how it's all that specific. You don't need Galeforce on everyone, especially since it works best on front-liners. Like, Lissa playing staff support would be rather pointless to have Galeforce on. But it's something that can be worth prioritizing a rush to level 15 for 1-2 characters for. Can't really say there's many other promoted skills worth that much effort (maybe the breakers, since they enable late-game dodge tanking).

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

They're typically not threats to the front-line tanks, no, but you still want to counter-kill them because the front-liners are going to want to move ahead and if there's multiple of the 1~2-range enemies, then they can't be as easily PPed to remove the threat range that prevents staffer/Olivia from safely advancing with the front-liners. They can also end up body blocking the front-liners from something else that they want to kill on PP.

Wyverns survive more easily, but named pegasi don't go down so easily, either (you can generally count on bow kills against enemy pegasi, though). Most of the player flier units get strong enough where if they're not neglected, they can take a hit from a forged Silver Bow and survive. It's liable to take 80% of their HP (more like 30%ish if it's Robin, though), but it's possible. If the unit is up to snuff, there's a pretty good chance they won't take the hit in the first place. It's usually a little better than a coin flip for each individual strike, yes, but player units should generally be doubling, so a B-rank support will usually give something a bit over a 75% chance of getting at least one DS for each engage. It's not guaranteed, of course, but significantly less lame than running around with a melee weapon and guaranteeing that those ranged enemies don't die, period.

Also, Fates is by far not a fair comparison when it comes to evasion in Awakening, since Fates's 1.5RN heavily nerfed dodge tanking. I'm not big on taking chances, either, but Awakening runs True Hit and has a lot of skills that give a rather lot of flat Avoid bonuses, in addition to easily attained auras and the fact that player units can get crazy Spd and Luk stats. All this culminates in having enemies with 10-20 listed hit as early as C6-7 and main front-liners easily able to push that to 0 against unpromoted enemies in the mid game. You don't want to keep this as your long-term plan if playing one of the Lunatics, of course, because enemies will suddenly push that back up to 30-40 with their hackforges and Hit+ skills in the late game, but units will have had ample time to build solid concrete defenses by then (usually—for those who may point out that I've been stuck with ~25 Def/Res going into some late L+ runs, those are major outliers).

You forgot Robin in there. Veteran allows Robin to get it even faster despite needing at least one reclass. Sumia and Cordelia also make very strong vanguards if properly supported for extra Str and Def. Morgan and any other kid of Robin's can also easily have it. Cordelia and Sumia can also pass it along, if necessary. That's a pretty wide spread of fighters, so I don't see how it's all that specific. You don't need Galeforce on everyone, especially since it works best on front-liners. Like, Lissa playing staff support would be rather pointless to have Galeforce on. But it's something that can be worth prioritizing a rush to level 15 for 1-2 characters for. Can't really say there's many other promoted skills worth that much effort (maybe the breakers, since they enable late-game dodge tanking).

Perhaps, but has it occured to you that if they're not that threatening in the grand scheme of things, maybe your turn's better spent vaporising what IS threatening? 

Oh, sorry, I wasn't aware that Cherche was "most of the player flier units". Anyways, I think the validity of this is questionable when the bow classes have high Skill (Assassins, Archers, Snipers, Bow Knights), high Strength (Warriors), or skills that boost hit rate (Archers, Snipers, Bow Knights).

See above. Also, most of the avoid boosting skills are conditional. And the only auras that affect evade are Charm, which has a laughably low effect, in addition to poor distrbution (Chrom and Lucina only), and Demoiselle, which affects male units only. Not helping matters is that second seals are in limited quantity for most of the game, as well as class hopping not being as viable as in Fates thanks to your levels resetting every time you reclass, in addition to your exp gain slowing down.

Except thanks to you just having to go and mention Robin, it IS specific (and this is ignoring the fact that this is assuming having a female Robin (why in the name of Naga should I when I don't really care about most of the male cast???)). And are we talking about the same Cordelia and Sumia who need babying thanks to being low defence lancers in an axe-heavy segment of the game???

Edited December 22, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Perhaps, but has it occured to you that if they're not that threatening in the grand scheme of things, maybe your turn's better spent vaporising what IS threatening? 

Oh, sorry, I wasn't aware that Cherche was "most of the player flier units". Anyways, I think the validity of this is questionable when the bow classes have high Skill (Assassins, Archers, Snipers, Bow Knights), high Strength (Warriors), or skills that boost hit rate (Archers, Snipers, Bow Knights).

See above. Also, most of the avoid boosting skills are conditional. And the only auras that affect evade are Charm, which has a laughably low effect, in addition to poor distrbution (Chrom and Lucina only), and Demoiselle, which affects male units only. Not helping matters is that second seals are in limited quantity for most of the game, as well as class hopping not being as viable as in Fates thanks to your levels resetting every time you reclass, in addition to your exp gain slowing down.

Except thanks to you just having to go and mention Robin, it IS specific (and this is ignoring the fact that this is assuming having a female Robin (why in the name of Naga should I when I don't really care about most of the male cast???)). And are we talking about the same Cordelia and Sumia who need babying thanks to being low defence lancers in an axe-heavy segment of the game???

No, that's not it. They're still threatening in the grand scheme of things, just not to the immediate front-liners. If you let them dick around doing as they please, they'll chase down/away your support staffers. They need to be dealt with. Also, there's a lot of rout maps and ranged units are really annoying to clean up if they accumulate (not to mention become rather dangerous in large groups). There's also the body blocking issue, as mentioned before. If they're getting in the way of taking down more threatening units, then that's a problem.

Well, let's see, maybe because Cherche isn't the only one who can survive? A properly trained Cordelia, Sumia, and especially Robin, can shrug off a forged Silver Bow hit as I have mentioned multiple times in past posts. There's also Wyvern Panne and her Donnel-like growths, though she isn't a pegasus. This is something I have personally done. Higher Skill generally isn't enough to let those units not get outscaled by player units in the early-mid game. It's only in the later game where they catch up enough. Player pegasi with an S support can easily have 100ish Avoid, which makes many unpromoted units cry when they barely have 110. The higher-Skill stuff even only really gets into the 120-130 range on C12-13 Lunatic.

Charm is hardly laughable when stacked on top of already high Avoid in a True Hit environment.

Because optimization is a thing? If you really don't want to use female Robin, female Morgan and her sister, if she has one, can also pick it up herself, though do note that your being picky will cost your resources. Yes, the game is some level of axe heavy when Sumia joins, but by the time Cordelia joins, it's getting much less so (even as early as C5 is full of Myrms and C6 has a sizable chunk of Thieves and Cavaliers). C8 is also a total pegasus buffet because the enemy forgot to bring many mages and didn't bother with bows at all. C9 ends up somewhat similarly, though more care is needed around the handful of Archers and Wyverns. C10 has plenty enough Soldiers and flier-only areas to abuse. C11 is huge and wide open with lots of Mercs who like to run off and get themselves isolated. Paralogues 2-4 can also be done once they're a bit over-leveled to further push them ahead of the curve.

And while you can argue babying, that's just the reality of life in the early game as a unit that's not Robin, Fred, Chrom or Lissa. Even Panne needs some because Taguel is an awful class.

[Shadow Mir]

8 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

No, that's not it. They're still threatening in the grand scheme of things, just not to the immediate front-liners. If you let them dick around doing as they please, they'll chase down/away your support staffers. They need to be dealt with. Also, there's a lot of rout maps and ranged units are really annoying to clean up if they accumulate (not to mention become rather dangerous in large groups). There's also the body blocking issue, as mentioned before. If they're getting in the way of taking down more threatening units, then that's a problem.

Well, let's see, maybe because Cherche isn't the only one who can survive? A properly trained Cordelia, Sumia, and especially Robin, can shrug off a forged Silver Bow hit as I have mentioned multiple times in past posts. There's also Wyvern Panne and her Donnel-like growths, though she isn't a pegasus. This is something I have personally done. Higher Skill generally isn't enough to let those units not get outscaled by player units in the early-mid game. It's only in the later game where they catch up enough. Player pegasi with an S support can easily have 100ish Avoid, which makes many unpromoted units cry when they barely have 110. The higher-Skill stuff even only really gets into the 120-130 range on C12-13 Lunatic.

Charm is hardly laughable when stacked on top of already high Avoid in a True Hit environment.

Because optimization is a thing? If you really don't want to use female Robin, female Morgan and her sister, if she has one, can also pick it up herself, though do note that your being picky will cost your resources. Yes, the game is some level of axe heavy when Sumia joins, but by the time Cordelia joins, it's getting much less so (even as early as C5 is full of Myrms and C6 has a sizable chunk of Thieves and Cavaliers). C8 is also a total pegasus buffet because the enemy forgot to bring many mages and didn't bother with bows at all. C9 ends up somewhat similarly, though more care is needed around the handful of Archers and Wyverns. C10 has plenty enough Soldiers and flier-only areas to abuse. C11 is huge and wide open with lots of Mercs who like to run off and get themselves isolated. Paralogues 2-4 can also be done once they're a bit over-leveled to further push them ahead of the curve.

And while you can argue babying, that's just the reality of life in the early game as a unit that's not Robin, Fred, Chrom or Lissa. Even Panne needs some because Taguel is an awful class.

Blah, blah, blah. More crap that stinks of naïve idealism. Excuse me while I go and barf. Because to put it bluntly, I don't trust you. But... Your first paragraph, at least, does bring up something I can agree with... Pity I can't say the same of everything else...

Edited December 22, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Blah, blah, blah. More crap that stinks of naïve idealism. Excuse me while I go and barf. Because to put it bluntly, I don't trust you. But... Your first paragraph, at least, does bring up something I can agree with... Pity I can't say the same of everything else...

Whether or not you trust me is irrelevant. My experience and expertise speaks for itself for anyone who is actually familiar with the game.

[mampfoid]

@Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi @Levant Mir Celestia I'll try that Dark Flier/Galeforce thing on Cordelia, but it will take some time. This evening/night is big travel time and most of the day will be preparation. Tomorrow and hopefully some of the Christmas days will let me progress a little in Awakening then. 

I won't give everyone Galeforce though, on my first run I'll try as many things as possible (classes, movement types etc.). 

14 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

You don't have to do any fights if you summon a Spotpass character. In fact, if you shop with them, the option to fight is lost unless you resummon them. There should be very little you can't get from either drops or shops later in the game if you don't bother with Spotpass or Renown. Some of it hinges on RNG because Anna's shops, which sell some really good stuff, has a semi-random inventory (it picks from a certain pool based on location and almost every pool has a couple rare things). Things that are kind of exceptions are "character X" weapons and few other thematic things. "Kind of" because you can get most of them as drops from the sparkling tiles, but the pool of items is big enough that it's not a good idea to count on getting anything in particular.

If I summon spotpass characters without a fight, I have to bribe them pay some gold. Is there a certain point in the story, where I better would have a bigger sum of gold ready? 

 

 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, mampfoid said:

@Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi @Levant Mir Celestia I'll try that Dark Flier/Galeforce thing on Cordelia, but it will take some time. This evening/night is big travel time and most of the day will be preparation. Tomorrow and hopefully some of the Christmas days will let me progress a little in Awakening then. 

I won't give everyone Galeforce though, on my first run I'll try as many things as possible (classes, movement types etc.). 

If I summon spotpass characters without a fight, I have to bribe them pay some gold. Is there a certain point in the story, where I better would have a bigger sum of gold ready? 

 

 

The logical answer to your question would be near the end of the game. Also, Risen encounters drop some sellable bullions (but buying Reeking Boxes isn't recommended if you're on anything above Normal - they cost 4800 gold, which ensures a net loss). That being said, you CAN get Reeking Boxes on the sparkling tiles, but it's far from a guarantee.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

7 hours ago, mampfoid said:

@Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi @Levant Mir Celestia I'll try that Dark Flier/Galeforce thing on Cordelia, but it will take some time. This evening/night is big travel time and most of the day will be preparation. Tomorrow and hopefully some of the Christmas days will let me progress a little in Awakening then. 

I won't give everyone Galeforce though, on my first run I'll try as many things as possible (classes, movement types etc.). 

If I summon spotpass characters without a fight, I have to bribe them pay some gold. Is there a certain point in the story, where I better would have a bigger sum of gold ready? 

One is usually more than enough unless you have some very specific purpose in mind (which would be a bit odd for a first run). I guess it's the kind of thing you might want to actively pursue more of if you decide to buy Future Past and/or Apotheosis to tackle with this particular file, but you're more than a ways off from that. Oh, and Galeforce is a bit different from Heroes. There's no charge countdown, with it instead giving you a guaranteed second action once per turn if you score a kill with that unit.

You technically don't have to fight or pay them. If you summon someone by accident, you can talk to them and choose the Dismiss option. If you mean recruiting without fighting, yeah, you have to bribe them. For the most part, you shouldn't need the Spotpass units, though, as you'll have a pretty big roster as is. Without spoiling too much, I'd say the neighbourhood of C12-15 is where you might consider buying a few rare judicious rare items from them (this might be hard to determine since you're playing blind, though), since the game gives you a pretty hefty burst of cash. End of the game also works and you might have a better idea of the needs of your team by then, too.

[Tabby]

Pretty sure no one else has answered this yet, but if you're still struggling with saving Maribelle and Ricken in chapter five, and have gotten Donnel (and the chest with the Rescue stave, which is important for this). You can pair up Maribelle and Ricken, with Maribelle in the front, have them walk down to the edge of the closest cliff and end turn. Then have Lissa be paired up with Sully, Stahl, Fredrick or maybe Sumia. Get Lissa over to where she's in range of the two, which may require having the mount unit on top at first. Rescue, and voila! Safe! Then proceed to faceroll with Chrom and Robin.

Also, if you haven't gotten Chrom too ranked up with any particular woman (Sumia is easy to do that with), then you can still get him to marry another by getting them at least one rank higher I believe. Just not Olivia, but that's not the end of the world. Though on your first playthough I would argue that Sumia is the best choice for a spouse, unless you're a female avatar and would rather yourself be his bride. There are no real bad choices in the grand scheme of things there.

Also, I support the notion of getting the suggested DLC 100%. It makes the game that much more immersive. 

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

16 hours ago, Tabby said:

Pretty sure no one else has answered this yet, but if you're still struggling with saving Maribelle and Ricken in chapter five, and have gotten Donnel (and the chest with the Rescue stave, which is important for this). You can pair up Maribelle and Ricken, with Maribelle in the front, have them walk down to the edge of the closest cliff and end turn. Then have Lissa be paired up with Sully, Stahl, Fredrick or maybe Sumia. Get Lissa over to where she's in range of the two, which may require having the mount unit on top at first. Rescue, and voila! Safe! Then proceed to faceroll with Chrom and Robin.

Also, if you haven't gotten Chrom too ranked up with any particular woman (Sumia is easy to do that with), then you can still get him to marry another by getting them at least one rank higher I believe. Just not Olivia, but that's not the end of the world. Though on your first playthough I would argue that Sumia is the best choice for a spouse, unless you're a female avatar and would rather yourself be his bride. There are no real bad choices in the grand scheme of things there.

Also, I support the notion of getting the suggested DLC 100%. It makes the game that much more immersive. 

It didn't get mentioned because he already found that solution early on. Also, Lissa wants Miriel over any of the cavs (+4 Mag). If she can just get +1 Mag from any of her levels, that puts her Rescue range at 5, allowing her to pull them down from the base of the cliff on turn 1. If she has the great misfortune to not have gained any, she can still Rescue from relative safety at the choke-point, then Fred can body block.

[Tabby]

35 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

It didn't get mentioned because he already found that solution early on. Also, Lissa wants Miriel over any of the cavs (+4 Mag). If she can just get +1 Mag from any of her levels, that puts her Rescue range at 5, allowing her to pull them down from the base of the cliff on turn 1. If she has the great misfortune to not have gained any, she can still Rescue from relative safety at the choke-point, then Fred can body block.

Well maybe it'll help someone out regardless... >~<

The good thing about Awakening is there is always more than one way to go about a chapter, even on Lunatic. I'd personally use Miriel with my Robin at that point since my party would be very weak, and my Robin would have been power leveled quite nicely in chapters 1-4 and the prologue. It's what'cha make of it~

[mampfoid]

Hi everybody, 

thanks for answering and helping out, sorry for answering so late. I was busy in the last days with Christmas, New Year, Family, Traveling and other stuff, I played only Heroes on my few spare time. Therefore little progress in Awakening, but I will give that some more time in the next days. So far I finished Chapter 9 (sad). Robin married Cordelia and Nowi married Gregor. Golden Pack was purchased, like recommended. 

• Chrom, Robin and Cordelia (Dark Flier) got their promotions, but now I'm out of Master Seals. What should I do with characters at Level 20? Bench them until I get other seals? 
• Nowi nearly used up her Dragonstone. I guess she can't fight anymore until I find a new one for her? 
• If I use a Second Seal, will the unit keep its stats? Can I use a Master seal on a unit that used a Second Seal before? Second Seals seem to be more of a niche in comparison to Master Seals. 

On 12/22/2017 at 11:56 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The logical answer to your question would be near the end of the game. Also, Risen encounters drop some sellable bullions (but buying Reeking Boxes isn't recommended if you're on anything above Normal - they cost 4800 gold, which ensures a net loss). That being said, you CAN get Reeking Boxes on the sparkling tiles, but it's far from a guarantee.

I got some reeking boxes from sparkling tiles, but until now those Risen show up often enough. Gold seems to be less of a problem than I though. 

On 12/22/2017 at 5:35 PM, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

One is usually more than enough unless you have some very specific purpose in mind (which would be a bit odd for a first run). I guess it's the kind of thing you might want to actively pursue more of if you decide to buy Future Past and/or Apotheosis to tackle with this particular file, but you're more than a ways off from that. Oh, and Galeforce is a bit different from Heroes. There's no charge countdown, with it instead giving you a guaranteed second action once per turn if you score a kill with that unit.

Oh, that variant of Galeforce sounds perfect for hit and run tactics. Before I will buy other DLCs, I'll try discover as much as possible of the standard content. 

On 12/22/2017 at 5:35 PM, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

You technically don't have to fight or pay them. If you summon someone by accident, you can talk to them and choose the Dismiss option. If you mean recruiting without fighting, yeah, you have to bribe them. For the most part, you shouldn't need the Spotpass units, though, as you'll have a pretty big roster as is. Without spoiling too much, I'd say the neighbourhood of C12-15 is where you might consider buying a few rare judicious rare items from them (this might be hard to determine since you're playing blind, though), since the game gives you a pretty hefty burst of cash. End of the game also works and you might have a better idea of the needs of your team by then, too.

Those items are booked for my second run. I might ask later what items/characters are useful. 

On 12/30/2017 at 9:34 AM, Tabby said:

Pretty sure no one else has answered this yet, but if you're still struggling with saving Maribelle and Ricken in chapter five, and have gotten Donnel (and the chest with the Rescue stave, which is important for this). You can pair up Maribelle and Ricken, with Maribelle in the front, have them walk down to the edge of the closest cliff and end turn. Then have Lissa be paired up with Sully, Stahl, Fredrick or maybe Sumia. Get Lissa over to where she's in range of the two, which may require having the mount unit on top at first. Rescue, and voila! Safe! Then proceed to faceroll with Chrom and Robin.

I pretty much did exactly that. This rescue staff is really a crazy tool. 

On 12/30/2017 at 9:34 AM, Tabby said:

Also, if you haven't gotten Chrom too ranked up with any particular woman (Sumia is easy to do that with), then you can still get him to marry another by getting them at least one rank higher I believe. Just not Olivia, but that's not the end of the world. Though on your first playthough I would argue that Sumia is the best choice for a spouse, unless you're a female avatar and would rather yourself be his bride. There are no real bad choices in the grand scheme of things there.

Funny, I wanted Chrome to marry Oliva (whom I didn't get so far), since she is on my Heroes Arena Assault team (together with Cordelia, Cherche and BH!Roy). Robin already married Cordelia. I've not decided yet what to do with Sumia, but I probably will  make her a Dark Flier like Cordelia for Galeforce shenanigans. I wonder if there can be too many Fliers on my team, since also Cherche is an Awakening character. 

On 12/31/2017 at 2:23 AM, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Also, Lissa wants Miriel over any of the cavs (+4 Mag). If she can just get +1 Mag from any of her levels, that puts her Rescue range at 5, allowing her to pull them down from the base of the cliff on turn 1. If she has the great misfortune to not have gained any, she can still Rescue from relative safety at the choke-point, then Fred can body block.

I should read the descriptions of skill and weapons, I didn't know Rescue range was dependent on the Mag stat! What would be the maximum range? 

It seems the perfect staff for some funny tactics, but I'm always hesitant to use up limited items. 

On 12/31/2017 at 3:04 AM, Tabby said:

The good thing about Awakening is there is always more than one way to go about a chapter, even on Lunatic. I'd personally use Miriel with my Robin at that point since my party would be very weak, and my Robin would have been power leveled quite nicely in chapters 1-4 and the prologue. It's what'cha make of it~

Miriel and Ricken are benched pretty much most of the time (like Sully, Maribelle, Gaius and Panne). Chrome, Lon'qu, Robin and Frederick did the most work on that map of Chapter 5. It's like you wrote, I like in Awakening that there are many ways to solve most maps. Even if it seems very difficult to save everyone in Chapter 5 without a Rescue staff. Perhaps I'll try that on a later run. 

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

You can either bench the level 20s or Second Seal them. Second Sealing resets their level, but keeps whatever stats they've gained. They may "lose" some stats and "gain" others upon changing to a different class (you can Second Seal them back to level 1 of their current class if you're happy with it) because the game adjusts the character according to the base stats of the class in question. This allows you to keep building someone toward maxed tier 1 stats if you don't want to bench them.

Yes, Nowi can't fight if she has no more Dragonstone. If you really don't want to bench her, you can summon Tiki and buy a Dragonstone+ for her. If you wait, there will be a normal shop that sells regular Dragonstones coming up, though.

Yes, you can Master Seal someone who has Second Sealed. They're kinda separate in that Second Seal is more for getting extra skills and stats, whereas Master Seal is more about not ramming into stat caps. Master Seals may seem less niche now, but Second Seals are way more useful. Think of it like Heroes SI: you collect more skills and can make some pretty busted builds with them.

Don't worry about using up the Rescue Staff. You can buy them in a bit. As far as the max range, it's dependant on the Mag cap of the user plus whatever temp buffs you can give to them. For most units who are Mag based in a magic class that can use staves, you'll be looking at over 20 tiles.

A fairly simple non-Rescue approach is to have Sumia pick one up on the first turn, then have Fred punch through the choke-point solo (or do it paired and have someone else come up behind him and pull his partner off) and then pair the other onto him.

[mampfoid]

27 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

You can either bench the level 20s or Second Seal them. Second Sealing resets their level, but keeps whatever stats they've gained. They may "lose" some stats and "gain" others upon changing to a different class (you can Second Seal them back to level 1 of their current class if you're happy with it) because the game adjusts the character according to the base stats of the class in question. This allows you to keep building someone toward maxed tier 1 stats if you don't want to bench them.

What do you mean by "keep building someone toward maxed tier 1 stats"? Does it have to do with some kind of randomized growth? 

29 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Yes, Nowi can't fight if she has no more Dragonstone. If you really don't want to bench her, you can summon Tiki and buy a Dragonstone+ for her. If you wait, there will be a normal shop that sells regular Dragonstones coming up, though.

Ok, she can wait for the next regular shop then. 

30 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Yes, you can Master Seal someone who has Second Sealed. They're kinda separate in that Second Seal is more for getting extra skills and stats, whereas Master Seal is more about not ramming into stat caps. Master Seals may seem less niche now, but Second Seals are way more useful. Think of it like Heroes SI: you collect more skills and can make some pretty busted builds with them.

Wait, if I use a second seal let's say on Dark Flier Cordelia, she would keep her stats (slightly altered to fit the new class) and skills? 

Would she keep also her Weapon levels? 

34 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Don't worry about using up the Rescue Staff. You can buy them in a bit. As far as the max range, it's dependant on the Mag cap of the user plus whatever temp buffs you can give to them. For most units who are Mag based in a magic class that can use staves, you'll be looking at over 20 tiles.

Wow, 20 tiles? Flyers could cover whole maps with the help of a rescue staff user ...

35 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

A fairly simple non-Rescue approach is to have Sumia pick one up on the first turn, then have Fred punch through the choke-point solo (or do it paired and have someone else come up behind him and pull his partner off) and then pair the other onto him.

Yeah, I noticed Frederick is some kind of early game helper because of his advanced class. 

[Shadow Mir]

10 hours ago, mampfoid said:

Nowi nearly used up her Dragonstone. I guess she can't fight anymore until I find a new one for her? 

You get one from the boss of chapter 11.

Quote

Wait, if I use a second seal let's say on Dark Flier Cordelia, she would keep her stats (slightly altered to fit the new class) and skills? 

Would she keep also her Weapon levels? 

Yes.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

1 hour ago, mampfoid said:

What do you mean by "keep building someone toward maxed tier 1 stats"? Does it have to do with some kind of randomized growth? 

Ok, she can wait for the next regular shop then. 

Wait, if I use a second seal let's say on Dark Flier Cordelia, she would keep her stats (slightly altered to fit the new class) and skills? 

Would she keep also her Weapon levels? 

Wow, 20 tiles? Flyers could cover whole maps with the help of a rescue staff user ...

Yeah, I noticed Frederick is some kind of early game helper because of his advanced class. 

Yes, unlike Heroes, growths are randomized. Heroes has the boon/bane system to have a very controlled way of simulating unit growths. The quick and dirty of it is that units have a percent chance to increase a given stat when leveling up. The game rolls an RN from 0 to 99 for each stat and if that number is lower than the percentage, they get a point in that stat. Tier 1 is typically used to refer to unpromoted classes, which have lower stat caps than the promoted units. If you Second Seal to an unpromoted class, you'll still run into those limitations, even though it gives you 19 more chances to increase your stats.

Yep, her stats would only ever go down substantially if you went from a promoted class to an unpromoted one (which is highly advised against). Even then, though, it's technically temporary, because as soon as she promoted again, she'd be back to whatever she'd previous gained. And yes, skills learned are permanent, just like with Heroes SI. Weapon levels also remain, regardless of class. If you changed her over to Hero and had A Lances, if you changed back to another class that uses lances, she'd still have an A.

Yeah, Rescue abuse can get pretty silly. You can do stuff like having Falcon Knights Rescue other Falcon Knights and Olivia to do some crazy stuff. LTCs usually have 1-turn clears of many of the late maps in the game because of this (albeit, not with 20 range, since that's generally gross overkill). A lot of Apotheosis strats make heavy use of it, as well.

Yep, it's a proud tradition started by Jagen. Fred has an easier time being salvaged if you want to keep using him in the later chapters, though.

[mampfoid]

Well, that's a bummer: Galeforce is allowed only once per turn and unit (like in Heroes). Did they change that in an update? Is it reversible? 

I had some progress today and recruited Morgan, but my team is too weak for Nah's dungeon yet. 

I made Sumia a flying healer and also Anna knows how to heal. Lissa became an axe wielding healer, but she is kind of weak. 

On 2.1.2018 at 11:28 PM, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

And yes, skills learned are permanent, just like with Heroes SI. Weapon levels also remain, regardless of class. If you changed her over to Hero and had A Lances, if you changed back to another class that uses lances, she'd still have an A.

But the class must allow that weapon? If I changed Lucina into a Pegasus Rider, she would be prevented from using swords, as long as she remains in that class? 

I'm asking also because I don't know what to make out of Lucina and Morgan. For Lucina: I don't want another Lord/Chrome, because Chrome is doing fine. For Morgan: She comes with Galeforce, therefore she doesn't need to become a Dark Flier. 

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

No, Galeforce has always been like that and it's still stupid powerful (it's one of a few things that can genuinely trample Lunatic+). I did say the difference was getting a kill versus needing to build up charge. Getting a kill is less work than the builds Heroes needs to get a reliable Galeforce every turn. It's really good for picking off a dangerous foe, then repositioning for an ideal EP or to run to safety (or to charge deep into enemy territory to assassinate the stage boss).

Yeah, Lissa has really bad base Str, so, despite her growth being okay,  unless you grind pretty hard to compensate, she never really gets to a point where she's terribly great with an axe.

Yes, the class must allow the weapon for you to wield them. Pegasus Lucina cannot use Parallel Falchion. It's not too bad of a loss, though. For the point you're at in the game, Javelins are a good trade-off. She'll have plenty of opportunity to reclass back to a sword class later.

Morgan and any sibling are basically Robin, but with even higher stat caps. Robin is still typically better due to the better availability, but they're nothing to sneeze at. You can basically make Robin and kids anything and they'll be good at it. With Galeforce, you can have some really silly fun shenanigans with other high-Move classes like Merc->Bow Knight, Mage/Dark Mage->Dark Knight, Cavalier->Paladin or Wyvern Rider->Wyvern Lord. If you want something on foot, Merc->Hero is also quite good.

Pegasus is a fine option for Lucina. Cavalier also suits her very well.

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, mampfoid said:

Well, that's a bummer: Galeforce is allowed only once per turn and unit (like in Heroes). Did they change that in an update? Is it reversible? 

I had some progress today and recruited Morgan, but my team is too weak for Nah's dungeon yet. 

I made Sumia a flying healer and also Anna knows how to heal. Lissa became an axe wielding healer, but she is kind of weak. 

Well, Galeforce was always like that... Except in Fates, where it was smacked by the nerf bat (well, technically, it still works the way it does in Awakening, but with three caveats; first off, it's locked behind a paywall. Second, it required the unit with it to not get any support (ergo, they can't use attack stance or guard stance) for it to work. Third, it's a level 35 skill in a game where such skills are generally irrelevant due to only coming when endgame's right around the corner).

The main things to worry about there are Mire sorcerers and Counter warriors.

Well, War Cleric does have its own merits (namely, a durability edge over Sage, and Renewal access (though said skill comes at level 15).

Edited January 5, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[mampfoid]

Ok, then I misunderstood how Galeforce works in Awakening from earlier posts. It's still fun to use. 

8 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Yeah, Lissa has really bad base Str, so, despite her growth being okay,  unless you grind pretty hard to compensate, she never really gets to a point where she's terribly great with an axe.

Too bad, she looks great with that ridiculously big weapon. Do you have suggestions what to make of her in a second run? 

8 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Yes, the class must allow the weapon for you to wield them. Pegasus Lucina cannot use Parallel Falchion. It's not too bad of a loss, though. For the point you're at in the game, Javelins are a good trade-off. She'll have plenty of opportunity to reclass back to a sword class later.

So no flying sword unit, ok. Perhaps I'll make her a Paladin, but I already made Stahl a Paladin and I like Lucinas original outfit. 

8 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Morgan and any sibling are basically Robin, but with even higher stat caps. Robin is still typically better due to the better availability, but they're nothing to sneeze at. You can basically make Robin and kids anything and they'll be good at it. With Galeforce, you can have some really silly fun shenanigans with other high-Move classes like Merc->Bow Knight, Mage/Dark Mage->Dark Knight, Cavalier->Paladin or Wyvern Rider->Wyvern Lord. If you want something on foot, Merc->Hero is also quite good.

Bow Knight sounds good. Thanks! 

6 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, Galeforce was always like that... Except in Fates, where it was smacked by the nerf bat (well, technically, it still works the way it does in Awakening, but with three caveats; first off, it's locked behind a paywall. Second, it required the unit with it to not get any support (ergo, they can't use attack stance or guard stance) for it to work. Third, it's a level 35 skill in a game where such skills are generally irrelevant due to only coming when endgame's right around the corner).

So they made it hard to use in Fates? Hmm, Fates was the title I wanted to play after Awakening. 

6 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The main things to worry about there are Mire sorcerers and Counter warriors.

Because of the Mire sorcerers I send Cordelia in front, but I forgot about those silver bow users. I'll come back when my other units have a similar level. 

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, mampfoid said:

Too bad, she looks great with that ridiculously big weapon. Do you have suggestions what to make of her in a second run? 

So they made it hard to use in Fates? Hmm, Fates was the title I wanted to play after Awakening. 

How is her Strength?

Not necessarily, but you won't get nearly as much mileage out of it as you would in Awakening for the reasons I mentioned earlier, most of all it being a level 35 skill since most units won't get such skills until the very end of the game. Well, that, and the part where as I said earlier, it's locked behind a paywall (specifically, you'll need to buy all three routes to get the item that allows you to class change into Dark Falcon, and even then, you only get two of them).

[mampfoid]

46 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

How is her Strength?

She is a level 3 War Cleric with 12 Str. 

46 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Not necessarily, but you won't get nearly as much mileage out of it as you would in Awakening for the reasons I mentioned earlier, most of all it being a level 35 skill since most units won't get such skills until the very end of the game. Well, that, and the part where as I said earlier, it's locked behind a paywall (specifically, you'll need to buy all three routes to get the item that allows you to class change into Dark Falcon, and even then, you only get two of them).

I think I would have bought all 3 of them anyway. But why is it locked? Is it bound to a kind of DLC character that is not part of the story? 

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

6 hours ago, mampfoid said:

Ok, then I misunderstood how Galeforce works in Awakening from earlier posts. It's still fun to use. 

Too bad, she looks great with that ridiculously big weapon. Do you have suggestions what to make of her in a second run? 

So no flying sword unit, ok. Perhaps I'll make her a Paladin, but I already made Stahl a Paladin and I like Lucinas original outfit. 

Bow Knight sounds good. Thanks! 

So they made it hard to use in Fates? Hmm, Fates was the title I wanted to play after Awakening. 

Because of the Mire sorcerers I send Cordelia in front, but I forgot about those silver bow users. I'll come back when my other units have a similar level. 

Sage is usually her best promotion, though she's also just as good as a Valkyrie if you're willing to spend the extra seal. I guess another thing you can do if you're willing to throw a bunch of money at her is to make +5 Mt forges to compensate for her Str (that's gonna add up real fast, though).

You could also make her a Great Knight. It's not as good as Paladin, but should still be usable and she'll definitely perform better than Fred.

To elaborate on why it's harder to get at level 35 (basically level 15 promoted, since Dark Flier and a few other classes in that game don't promote, but just go from levels 1 to 40), Fates nerfed the EXP formula pretty hard. Awakening has a kind of ridiculously high gain floor, so it's very viable for the primary or secondary tank to get an early promoted 15 skill. Fates has it so after you're 5 levels above the enemy, you get nothing, even for kills. This means it's no longer a good strategy to rush level 15 skills on most units (except Jakob or Felicia, but mostly Jakob, since they have special shenanigans going on for them despite being pre-promoted). You can still kinda push for getting is a couple chapters earlier on Corrin due to Corrin still having an overpowered +EXP% skill, but eh.

1 hour ago, mampfoid said:

I think I would have bought all 3 of them anyway. But why is it locked? Is it bound to a kind of DLC character that is not part of the story? 

Because the reward items are pay-to-win items of a sort. Dread Fighter and Dark Flier are both classes that go from levels 1 to 40 and come with promoted-level bases. This means that any character (because you can use the items on anyone) can use the class-change item and get a substantial stat boost, allowing them to completely overpower anything in the early-mid game, even on Lunatic.

[mampfoid]

16 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Because the reward items are pay-to-win items of a sort. Dread Fighter and Dark Flier are both classes that go from levels 1 to 40 and come with promoted-level bases. This means that any character (because you can use the items on anyone) can use the class-change item and get a substantial stat boost, allowing them to completely overpower anything in the early-mid game, even on Lunatic.

That sounds like they found a way to make a cool thing totally lame. :-(

19 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Sage is usually her best promotion, though she's also just as good as a Valkyrie if you're willing to spend the extra seal. I guess another thing you can do if you're willing to throw a bunch of money at her is to make +5 Mt forges to compensate for her Str (that's gonna add up real fast, though).

You could also make her a Great Knight. It's not as good as Paladin, but should still be usable and she'll definitely perform better than Fred.

Ok, I'll have to wait how my second run team will look like. The game keeps throwing nice characters at me, if one doesn't perform well it's hard to keep him. 

What's wrong with Freddy? He seems pretty reliable so far.