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what u DONT want to see in FE Switch


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2 hours ago, Chipper Jones Fan said:

I don't want S rank supports, I think that Fates went too far with it by allowing Corrin to marry second generation units. I also don't want to see children, I also don't want to see avatars, yes they can be helpful, but Awakening made it bad. 

I agree with kids but seeing as the matchmaking and avatar system are why FE is enjoying mainstream success and not wasting away on the bench like F-Zero, I don't see IS taking it out anytime soon.

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2 hours ago, Watchman said:

I agree with kids but seeing as the matchmaking and avatar system are why FE is enjoying mainstream success and not wasting away on the bench like F-Zero, I don't see IS taking it out anytime soon.

This is seriously debatable. If you look at sales data for Awakening, you'd see that nearly half of its sales were earned in 2014. The same year Smash 4 came out. Awakening had been out in every region for over a year by the time this trailer dropped. Furthermore, Awakenings initial success could be due to the fact that it was just a very large, well marketed game that brought out nearly all of the cool mechanics from previous games we've been asking for, not just the avatar-who-can-support-with-everybody thing from FE12. FE12, by the way, not a hot seller. 

Awakening sales

Nov 2013, Awakening breaks 1 million after worldwide launch. Impressive. Probably the first game in the series to accomplish that

Dec 2014, Awakening at 1.79 million, whoa, almost double sales. Game's got legs. Let's see if the wave continues...

March 2017, 1.9 million. Okay, not much to add after 2 more years. Must have been the Smash bump.

And Fates owes its sales just as much to the Smash Bump. Corrin's trailer dropped before we got the game overseas.

Edited by Glennstavos
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Hmm... I stand corrected then. I still don't think they'll leave those two things out though as there is sizable amount of people out there who wouldn't try a Fire Emblem game prior to Awakening and Fates otherwise and I'm darn sure it's not the excellent marketing as there are people who seriously didn't buy an FE game if it didn't have the matchmaking. And sure, those people could be a very small minority, but it still shows that those mechanics do help.

And also, I'm pretty sure FE12 wasn't a hot seller because it was never localized in the west and was released late in the NDS' lifespan. If anything did pretty well in Japan with both it and Shadow Dragon selling better than PoR and RD in Japan (poor marketing and bad release timing of the Tellius games not withstanding). Edit: (And RD's Japanese script being pretty horrid apparrently.)

Edited by Watchman
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38 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Hmm... I stand corrected then. I still don't think they'll leave those two things out though as there is sizable amount of people out there who wouldn't try a Fire Emblem game prior to Awakening and Fates otherwise and I'm darn sure it's not the excellent marketing as there are people who seriously didn't buy an FE game if it didn't have the matchmaking. And sure, those people could be a very small minority, but it still shows that those mechanics do help.

Honestly there's no understating the Smash Bros Boost. Same thing happened with FE7. The very first FE to make it to the west after interest in the series spiked due to Roy and Marth in SSB. Two years people were going "What the hell is a Fire Emblem?" then boom, a game called "Fire Emblem" comes out.

It was a brand new, untested franchise in the west. It was the best selling FE to make it outside of Japan until Awakening. Unfortunately, Tellius never got a bump due to Ike's presence in Smash for a variety of reasons(FE9 came out too late for a Melee boost, and too soon for a Brawl boost. FE10, being a direct sequel to it+FE9 having sold poorly, it having AWFUL marketing, and a limited production run were all a kiss of death for it and FE9.)

A lot of it has to do with marketing. Marketing for FEs prior to Awakening were piss poor. FE7 had probably the best marketing, and it had a release that coincided with Smash with 0 barrier to entry. Lo and behold, it was a success. No release after that got the same treatment, and they got middling to bad sales. Until Awakening brought the FE name to a broader audience.

If Nintendo makes it known that a new Fire Emblem is coming out, people will likely buy it. Look at Echoes. It came out very late in the 3DS' lifetime, Nintendo already effectively had a new handheld out, and it came out roughly a year after the last new Fire Emblem. By all means, it should have been another flop. And while it wasn't a smashing success, it did meet Nintendo's expectations because Nintendo did a decent job reminding people in the period between its reveal and its release that it was coming out. Even as the Switch was flying off the shelves and nobody could get enough Zelda, Nintendo was still going "Yeah, but don't forget about Fire Emblem".

I do think you're right, in that some of these features that Awakening and Fates have brought to the franchise added to the success, but I think they're far from the sole contributors of the success Awakening and Fates saw. It's really hard to say how much they contribute, honestly.

I'll reiterate that I think IS handling these mechanics the same way they did with Fates will only push people away, rather than bring more people in. Fates is a trashy, trashy game(ESPECIALLY when it comes to the match making stuff). Some people are totally cool with trashy, but I'd wager more people don't want something as trashy as Fates. There's tons of things the developers did right with Fates, but for everything they did right, there's something that just feels dirty and wrong about Fates.

Just scrape off a ton of the scum on Fates' surface, and I think there'd be another huge hit in the franchise. I don't even know if that means scrapping the match making stuff, but it might.

Edited by Slumber
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On 2/10/2018 at 7:01 PM, BZL8 said:

The weapon triangle wasn't introduced until FE4.

Oh my bad I didn't know, but what i was trying to say was that IS wouldn't remove a core mechanic in the series (with the exception of Echoes).

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On 03/02/18 at 7:23 PM, ObeseCity said:

I'm just preaching the choir when I say no skinship

Also, no weapons breaking. That was a pain in the ass.

And for now, I'm done with child units.

Yeah the weapons breaking was terrible, I don't want to see it in the next one. On your first one it was only in Japan I thinked they dropped it in the west because if they didn't it would of been M rated. As for child units I would disagree, Fates made the child units feasible.

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8 hours ago, John Denver Fan said:

As for child units I would disagree, Fates made the child units feasible.

I think he was talking about the way they were handled in the story though. Fates obviously just shoehorned them into the game because it was a popular feature in Awakening, and that needs to stop. If you can't implement them without coming up with a good story reason then they shouldn't be implemented to begin with in my opinion.

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- No skinship. I hope there’s nothing like that in the original Japanese version so there doesn’t have to be another “censorship” controversy. 

- Also I hope it doesn’t do anything to start any huge controversy. I don’t want it to create flame wars everywhere or give new players a bad impression of the series.

- I don’t mind shipping/marriage, but I don’t want a 2nd gen.

- No excessive fanservice. The fanservice in Fates (as well as the ski ship and other weird things) made it feel more like something from an ecchi anime and felt very out of place for a Fire Emblem game. 

- No shotas or lolis.

- I don’t want it to rely on done-to-death anime tropes or any more otaku pandering. (As much as I like anime in general, I’m tired of seeing a lot of overdone tropes and I can’t stand the “waifu” culture. If it’s going to have any similarities to popular anime, why can’t it be like something like Fullmetal Alchemist?)

- No ridiculous costumes for the female characters. (Especially the cavaliers wearing thongs... have the designers ever rode a horse??? That would hurt like hell!)

- Just no overtly sexualized characters. They did a better job designing attractive characters when they weren’t trying. (For example, in her original game, Lyn didn’t look designed to be very fanservicey aside from wearing a slit dress thing, and Lucina doesn’t look fanservicey at all, and both of them have loads of fans... in contrast, characters like Camilla and Tharja are either love-them-or-hate-them, with a lot more people leaning towards hate. Also they didn’t need skimpy dressed male characters like Odin, there are already a lot of pretty boys in the series that didn’t have to wear outlandish clothes to be attractive.)

- No more bad portrayals of mental illness. If they’re going to have mentally ill characters, they need to at least try to get it right, not use it to make characters “cute” or “edgy”.

- Maybe I’m just being nostalgic, despite not having played all the older games yet, but I don’t want it to be too different from the previous games (before Awakening and Fates). If it changes too much, it won’t seem like it’s even part of the same series anymore, and that already kind of happened with Fates. (Idk maybe I’m just worried because Legend of Zelda, another series I’ve loved for a long time, is also becoming very experimental, with the art style and gameplay changing a lot with every recent game, and even though BotW is great, I wish it had better storytelling and I have no idea where the series is going at this point.)

- I’ve recently started Blazing Blade, and the fog had better not come back. EVER.

- I don’t want anyone but Hidari designing the art. Echoes was freaking BEAUTIFUL.

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9 hours ago, ShadowAlchemist said:

Maybe I’m just being nostalgic, despite not having played all the older games yet, but I don’t want it to be too different from the previous games (before Awakening and Fates). If it changes too much, it won’t seem like it’s even part of the same series anymore, and that already kind of happened with Fates. (Idk maybe I’m just worried because Legend of Zelda, another series I’ve loved for a long time, is also becoming very experimental, with the art style and gameplay changing a lot with every recent game, and even though BotW is great, I wish it had better storytelling and I have no idea where the series is going at this point.)

Well... I would ask your opinion of Genealogy of the Holy War, but I doubt you played it. (In case you're wondering, it's also rather different from the rest of the series)

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2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well... I would ask your opinion of Genealogy of the Holy War, but I doubt you played it. (In case you're wondering, it's also rather different from the rest of the series)

I haven’t, but from the little I know, (I’m trying to avoid spoilers and all I really know is Seliph is pretty) it doesn’t seem different enough that it feels like a completely different genre. I’ve seen the characters in Heroes at least, and their designs don’t look out of place for a fire emblem game, unlike some of Fates characters. And I know there isn’t an avatar, so the plot can’t be ‘self insert special character gets their butt kissed by everyone’. Also I’ve heard the storyline is one of the best, if not THE best, so I’m pretty sure it can’t be full of absurd plot holes.

Also, I hope I haven’t made anyone mad with all the fates-bashing. Just to clear things up, I don’t hate it, I actually liked it but I do think it has a lot of flaws that could be improved.

Edited by ShadowAlchemist
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Guest Dreamyboi

My list of things Fire Emblem Switch should avoid goes like this:

-S Supports and Child units need to go, the Awakening formula has outlived it's appeal and I'm sick of it now. Support conversations are meant for characterization and when the conversation tries to speed toward a forced romance at the end things get weird.

-Avatar/My Unit also should disappear. ESPECIALLY if they're the main character. Avatars are a hinderance to storytelling because they either rob the actual main characters of accomplishments that could have been their own or they're plot convenient blank slates that act however they need to. The last thing we need is another Corrin.

-Pair Up was improved in Fates but it doesn't need to make a return at all in my opinion.

-One dimensional villains are also a thing that have to go. I'm not saying they need to be morally grey, I AM a fan of Ashnard after all. What I am saying though is that they need to have some actual depth and understandable motivation. Garon and Anankos were by far the worst antagonists the series has seen to date good lord.

-Fog of War and/or Desert maps are things I hate to see in any Fire Emblem game and I hope I don't see them again. Fire Emblem is a strategy game and robbing the player of information they need to play the game correctly and/or making the map a boring slog are not smart game design choices.

-Fates' attempt to balance the unbreakable weapons was.....an attempt but ultimately I prefer breakable weapons. Resource management is part of the strategy. 

-Mystery bonus exp needs to stop. It's one of the things I don't like about the Tellius games, if there's bonus exp the game should tell you how to get it.

-While I realize Pheonix Mode isn't for me and that I'm not forced to use it, I think that it as a difficulty mode fails at encouraging strategic gameplay and in what is supposed to be a strategy game it feels like a dumb idea to me personally.

-Again, while I realize skinship and the face rubbing minigame weren't for me (even though I was against them being removed in Fates) I found the concept creepy and out of place. I wont miss it if it's gone but if it stays I just wont touch it.

Anyway that's all I have to for this.

 

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On 3/4/2018 at 9:07 PM, ShadowAlchemist said:

I haven’t, but from the little I know, (I’m trying to avoid spoilers and all I really know is Seliph is pretty) it doesn’t seem different enough that it feels like a completely different genre. I’ve seen the characters in Heroes at least, and their designs don’t look out of place for a fire emblem game, unlike some of Fates characters. And I know there isn’t an avatar, so the plot can’t be ‘self insert special character gets their butt kissed by everyone’. Also I’ve heard the storyline is one of the best, if not THE best, so I’m pretty sure it can’t be full of absurd plot holes.

Also, I hope I haven’t made anyone mad with all the fates-bashing. Just to clear things up, I don’t hate it, I actually liked it but I do think it has a lot of flaws that could be improved.

Funny you say that, because gameplay wise, I'd say it is different enough to feel like a different genre. Also, you won't like it if you don't have the bottomless patience needed to stomach bloated maps and frustrating mechanics. Incidentally, I think Genealogy has a lot of flaws from a gameplay perspective.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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Unless they have a really good implementation of it, I agree with everyone else on getting rid of kids. Awakening did it OK but Babyrealms was too much, especially when you can romance said aged up kids who are 100% your friend's child, no parallel excuse or anything (I still find it weird 2 years later, idk about anyone else)

I'm not sure if I want a Avatar or not. FE12-14 all seemed to be confused on who the main character was multiple times in the story and I don't really want that to happen again. I honestly like Robin and Corrin as their own characters instead of avatars. I feel like I want two proper main characters/split routes that aren't avatars. 

 

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On 3/5/2018 at 2:17 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Funny you say that, because gameplay wise, I'd say it is different enough to feel like a different genre. Also, you won't like it if you don't have the bottomless patience needed to stomach bloated maps and frustrating mechanics. Incidentally, I think Genealogy has a lot of flaws from a gameplay perspective.

Honestly stuff like that doesn’t bother me much. I meant things like the story and characters. Like, even though a lot of characters in the older games didn’t get much characterization, most of them didn’t seem like one-note flanderized tropes, and weren’t gimmicky to the point of being ridiculous, and in Awakening and Fates, some things with the storyline and characters were a little too silly to take seriously sometimes.

2 minutes ago, kiaxxl said:

Unless they have a really good implementation of it, I agree with everyone else on getting rid of kids. Awakening did it OK but Babyrealms was too much, especially when you can romance said aged up kids who are 100% your friend's child, no parallel excuse or anything (I still find it weird 2 years later, idk about anyone else)

I'm not sure if I want a Avatar or not. FE12-14 all seemed to be confused on who the main character was multiple times in the story and I don't really want that to happen again. I honestly like Robin and Corrin as their own characters instead of avatars. I feel like I want two proper main characters/split routes that aren't avatars. 

 

Yeah, I’ve always found that creepy too. I think if it’s going to let you (as the avatar or whoever the main character is) marry characters and have a 2nd gen, it shouldn’t be possible to marry the 2nd gen characters. (I don’t marry them on principle, because it’s just weird, but tbh there’s a few characters I wish had been 1st gen instead and I feel awful for liking them.)

I also agree that the Robin and Corrin are better as their own characters. I never hated Robin, since he/she was less of a Mary Sue (at least no one ever blindly trusted them enough to jump off a cliff) but I didn’t like Corrin until Warriors gave her an actual personality.

But if they ever do split routes again, they should be already in the game, not a separate game or DLC.

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Oh, by split routes I meant like Alm/Celica and Eirika/Ephraim type of thing, not BR and CQ. I really don't think that'd go down well on the Switch, lol. I don't particularly want them to be romantically involved, either; Alm and Celica angsting over each other was personally constant low points during Echoes' story.

I liked both avatars just fine but I like them better as their own characters in other media, when they're actually Corrin and Robin and not whoever you want them to be. I don't think I'll ever like Kris

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11 minutes ago, ShadowAlchemist said:

Honestly stuff like that doesn’t bother me much. I meant things like the story and characters. Like, even though a lot of characters in the older games didn’t get much characterization, most of them didn’t seem like one-note flanderized tropes, and weren’t gimmicky to the point of being ridiculous, and in Awakening and Fates, some things with the storyline and characters were a little too silly to take seriously sometimes.

Well... I find it very hard to get attached to the story when it means needing to endure garbage tier gameplay. As for Genealogy's characters, I generally find myself feeling apathetic at best and outright disliking them at worst, with one exception - said exception being Lana.

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I hope character introductions are not similar to how they were in fates, where each character would give a lengthy synopsis about their quirks seconds after being met (ex. the 5 minute recruitment conversation in conquest chapter 7). These issues are not just a localization error as the same thing happens in the Japanese version. Let their character be shown in supports or in a cut scene outside of the battle.

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I'm a bit late to the party, but my two cents on the censorship in Fates is basically that it doesn't matter how uncomfortable the petting mini-game made you or how unnecessary a feature it was. Stuff like that should never happen and I'm hoping nothing like that happens with FE Switch. I thought the whole thing was dumb, but look: If you say "I don't condone censorship, but this thing makes me uncomfortable so it's okay to censor that" then you're a hypocrite. Because we all know that if Treehouse had removed the same sex S-ranks for Niles and Rajhat everyone who was upset about the petting mini-game's existence would riot. But same-sex relationships are something that makes some people uncomfortable, and it's okay to censor something that makes people feel uncomfortable, right? Censorship is bad. Period.

I'm also going to be joining the people who hope that second gen units don't return this time. That's been played out and definitely wasn't implemented very well in Fates.

 

 

Edited by Troublesome Knight
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- None of this "they may LOOK like a child but they're really a 1000 year old dragon that you can marry!!" crap intsys seems to love. Please.

-DLC only grinding maps. Just give us something like the FEH training tower or the tower of whatever its called in sacred stones (can't remember for the life of me)

- I feel like everyone has said this but...no kids!!! Unless you do it like a "oh this is 20 years later" thing.

 

EDIT: forgot to mention this before, but also better same sex marriage options. Fates' was a step in the right direction but making the only female candidate a gen 2 character and the only male character one who's portrayed as 'creepy' or 'uncomfortably sexual' isn't really that great representation.

Edited by himeki
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Guest Dreamyboi
2 hours ago, himeki said:

- None of this "they may LOOK like a child but they're really a 1000 year old dragon that you can marry!!" crap intsys seems to love. Please.

THANK YOU

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2 hours ago, himeki said:

- None of this "they may LOOK like a child but they're really a 1000 year old dragon that you can marry!!" crap intsys seems to love. Please.

-DLC only grinding maps. Just give us something like the FEH training tower or the tower of whatever its called in sacred stones (can't remember for the life of me)

- I feel like everyone has said this but...no kids!!! Unless you do it like a "oh this is 20 years later" thing.

 

EDIT: forgot to mention this before, but also better same sex marriage options. Fates' was a step in the right direction but making the only female candidate a gen 2 character and the only male character one who's portrayed as 'creepy' or 'uncomfortably sexual' isn't really that great representation.

I actually think grinding romance can take a break. No characters falling in love with each other unless it’s story driven. 

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This might be a difficult topic to fix, but I don't want most of the characters to run away once they "die". This happens for both allies and villains. The thing that makes this difficult is how allowing the characters to live gives them the opportunity to show up in later cut scenes.  The GBA games an opposite issue, where a character would join and then would never be heard from again since they could die at any point. I feel that the best way they could prevent both of these issues is to have the aspect from echoes where every chapter you can talk to each member of your army and they will talk about whatever is currently happening in the story.

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On 3/5/2018 at 1:42 AM, Dreamyboi said:

-Fates' attempt to balance the unbreakable weapons was.....an attempt but ultimately I prefer breakable weapons. Resource management is part of the strategy. 

I disagree - while resource management is part of the strategy, durability does nothing positive for strategy - rather, it only encourages hoarding and the "Too Awesome to Use" trope, both of which inhibit strategy rather than promote it.

On 3/5/2018 at 1:42 AM, Dreamyboi said:

One dimensional villains are also a thing that have to go. I'm not saying they need to be morally grey, I AM a fan of Ashnard after all. What I am saying though is that they need to have some actual depth and understandable motivation. Garon and Anankos were by far the worst antagonists the series has seen to date good lord.

I'd agree if it weren't for the likes of Riev and Valter existing, since they had neither.

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