Antihero Anonydraft Mafia (Game Over)

[Refakitty³]

I think new Beast should focus on quality of reads rather than quantity. If they want to read the entire game and comment on it, do it privately and then post the bits they can form a meaningful conclusion from. If it doesn't happen until next phase, so be it.

[Shiki Ryougi]

Well, shit, now I have to do a captcha to post?  This is my last post for now, and if I don't respond to you, oh well.  It's ironic that the game is easier to read after dumping all of my thoughts, but now I'm having problems stringing things together.

Nagito's earliest ED1 is a conversation with Kokichi.  It's rather refreshing, amidst all the accusations.  Actually, I like this slot's D1.  It's direct, and much easier on the mind than Mello (I'm taking responses in a vacuum, and I'm still not happy with him) and Toshio (who did not get to the point).  While the second paragraph is an interesting point at the time, it's now irking, given who was lynched D2 and is currently sitting at L-1 on D3.  Where's the scumreads on the most active players (this is to everyone)?

This in D2 is confusing as hell, because Mello can't be BBM, and buddy himself.  Doctor vote is also a null, since it didn't seem like it was particularly serious.  Furthermore, Kratos wasn't about to be lynched, short of people thinking that mafia had both doctor and strongman.  I don't like this, because fucking up random things in the game doesn't make someone town/scum (this applies to Mello as well).  I don't know what time the phase ends, am I town or scum?  The answer is that it's irrelevant, because it has nothing to do with my alignment, and everything to do with a lack of reading comprehension.  Not that it matters, because all I know is that it's D3, and not the beginning of the phase.

I can't read the Toshio interactions for crap.  I can read the Lapis ones, at least.  I think Nagito comes out much better between the two.

I'm going to address random Kokichi/random stuff in here, because I don't have the time/patience for another post.

Disagree with this, because first-pick mafia would most likely go after vengeful, not doctor.  Speaking of the claim, it was somewhat out of the blue, but I can't fault Kratos for it.  Better to get that out of the way early, given who was behind that alias.

Given my stance on Nagito, I like this vote by Lapis a lot less.  I mentioned it earlier, but with more context, it now stands out as really bad.  Trying to get stuff out of associative reads is decent D2 play. Definitely not worth voting Nagito over.

This was probably the best case against Faye.  Then again, if I was vengeful and wanting to be lynched, I'd intentionally get everyone mad, as opposed to being flat-out grumpy because I'm tired to the point of having issues with a captcha.

Just now, Mello said:

I think new Beast should focus on quality of reads rather than quantity. If they want to read the entire game and comment on it, do it privately and then post the bits they can form a meaningful conclusion from. If it doesn't happen until next phase, so be it.

I don't know when the phase ends, and I don't want the current lynch.  I'm doing this in order to figure out who I'd like to lynch instead.

So, after rereading everything again, here's what I have:

• Feeling better about The Batter, despite not really existing D3.  Posting style is pretty direct, and if I feel something needs explanation, I'll bug him about it.  Not scumreading this slot ATM, but I want to see more come D4.
• I'm still not feeling the Endeavor lynch.  But if there's no time for another wagon, then this would be purely for associative reads.  I really wish I was in this slot at the beginning of the game, because this feels like it's going to be Crowler Mk. 2, and I would've hard-defended him until the sub request.
• I haven't said crap about Kokichi, and I need to change that.  Biggest ping right now is putting Endeavor at L-1.  With the sheer number of subs happening, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for one to do a quick skim, vote Endeavor for earlier content, and inadvertently hammer.  Like The Batter, I don't remember much of them on D3.  Then again, if this was a scumtell, I'd flip a coin and vote one of Kokichi/Batter.  Which I'm not going to do.  Needs better activity come D4, given today's Endeavor shenanigans.   I'm not scumreading this slot now, but I really need to read their posts in-depth.
• Mello/Lapis' various "slips" are a lack of reading comprehension, not necessarily town/scum.  I've called out random mechanical things before, because it's something noteworthy.  Because if those two slips really are town, then me not knowing the end phase time and attempting to cram everything in should also be a towntell.  Except that it's not.
• Speaking of, Mello's D1 wasn't great, but I like his later content.  Lapis is the exact opposite.
• Toshio's words to content raito still bugs the crap out of me.  Mostly everyone else managed to RP without it interfering with my reads on them, and I don't have time to sit down and translate every single thing, while stripping out all the irrelevant stuff.  I'll get a better opinion on him later.
• I'm not commenting too much on Omar because I'm out of time.  I'm not scumreading this slot.

For now, I'm going to drop a vote here:

##Unvote
##Vote: Lapis Lazuli

That vote on Nagito for the associative reads is what did it.  It also feels like you're still sort-of scumreading him.  Kokichi's case had some merit, but yours?  I can't get behind those reasons.  It's not much of a case, but given the state of my mind (I'm way too tired to dig up quotes and analyze each and every one of them), it's the strongest scum read I have among the living players.  I'd have something on Toshio, if I could get to the heart of his posts.  It's the wordiness that pings me, but it's not enough to warrant a vote.

Good night, and maybe I'll be back in time.  If I'm lynched, I hope this proves helpful.  But at least you'll remember me, which is better than what I can say about my predecessors!

[Refakitty³]

Given my stance on Nagito, I like

this vote by Lapis a lot less.  I mentioned it earlier, but with more context, it now stands out as really bad.  Trying to get stuff out of associative reads is decent D2 play. Definitely not worth voting Nagito over.

This is a misrep. Lapis was not objecting to use of associative reads, but saying Nagito was using ED1 interactions and framing them as LD1.

 

That vote on Nagito for the associative reads is what did it.  It also feels like you're still sort-of scumreading him.

He is, and has also explained his progression on Nagito through to today. Find it, read it and compose a proper argument.

 

Your post has indeed proved helpful, to the faction that's not aligned with you. I hope that that is my faction. @nagito you wanna hope with me?

[Cú Chulainn]

8 hours ago, The Batter said:

I don't think it's difficult to criticize Omar considering he hasn't even bothered to vote. It reads as apathy toward the lynch. You say he has his own opinions that he's been fighting for but he didn't fight for them at all once the day started.

In terms of suspicions you're right, but I think he has a firmness in his stance on Endie that I think is genuine. it's either that they're scum together or Omar has genuine belief in his read. Regardless of faction, him wanting to preserve Endie's life isn't a lie. I've also been townreading the guy all game because his thought process has always been very transparent and it's easy to tell how he comes to his conclusions. Doing that shit as scum is hard.

6 hours ago, Omar Little said:

Speaking of the responses, I actually went back and looked at votals 1.5 and the votes show that Endeavor was at 5 votes while Mello was at 3 and Crawler was at 2. @Kokichi Ouma you said that the wagons were small at the time so it would have been easy to make the switch. So why would he not if endeavor is scum? I feel I'm not understanding your response. He remains committed to the Endeavor vote when he could have easily gotten off and remains committed the rest of the day. 

 

Fwiw I was looking at 1.4 before Smello was even really had pressure on him. My vote was the only thing that pushed Endie out into the lead and it came right before the votals in a time that Rick hadn't been voting much, so it would be difficult for Rick to actually sabotage the wagon without looking awful (and I think Endie would be expected to get lynched D2 anyway, even after we lynched Crowler) so there's very little to gain. It's possible that this comes from town instead, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as you think it is.

I have to do things for a little while. I might have time to get another short post out before work, but if not I'll catch up properly before phase end.

[Cú Chulainn]

@Lapis I think Beast’s entrance is kinda town. I don’t see why scum want to stir up so many contrary opinions unless they’re really struggling for reads (but then they would just put in less effort here imo), or if Endie is their scumbuddy I guess. But in the latter case we would still lynch Endie first. I want to see how Beast settles once they’ve properly got into the game (as in 24h or so, although I guess we don’t have that now) though because putting out content as scum tends to get harder as you get into the game, not easier. 

@Beast can you summarise your Toshio read (as in why he’s scummy)? There are a lot of points there and it feels kinda directionless.

Endie disappearing makes me feel like he’s given up. I’ll be back before deadline and will have hopefully reread Toshio and have been able to read Beast’s walls in detail by then.

[Refakitty³]

My post at the top of the page was because new beast seems self-conscious of the fact their slot has no content and they're trying to force some before phase end.

I believe their thought process is faked; if they genuinely feel Endeavour is going to be mislynched, they would start by trying to work out who is pushing for a mislynch. Especially as it seems to be their strongest read.

 

[All Might]

10 hours ago, Omar Little said:

I did miss something from toshio that bothers me that came back cuz beast linked a post of theirs in his case. this sounds bad because i only said i didn't understand the sentiment but i can see how it could be twisted as scummy. Toshio calls Crawler scummy because his votes are "easy" which isn't very good because it dismisses the actual case. People shouldn't be forced to make reads based on what's "difficult" but who they actually think is scum.

This is true but if your only scumread is on someone like that then it looks real bad because it's very easy for scum to fake and town usually have thoughts on other people due to general paranoia. I say usually because it wasn't the case here but there you go, hindsight is 20/20.

10 hours ago, Omar Little said:

He says crawler thinks that beast is bad because of badly explained opinions.  

The reason I think this is because of lines like this:

On 05/01/2018 at 7:04 AM, Dr. Crowler said:

@Beast: please actually clarify your reasons, we aren't mind readers. i won't repeat myself again. at this juncture, this is active lurking at its finest. 

My impression of Crowler was that of someone who wanted more reads and more explanations and failing to provide them counted as "active lurking". He had other points too but that was the one that stuck out the most because making one liners like the above asking just for opinions hints that's their main focus.

I then went on to explain why beast's "active lurking" is more likely to come from town than scum.

Really not a fan of beast claiming most of my content is fluff when it clearly isn't. I'm not rping nearly as much as other people and when I make a comment like my character it is usually the first line of the post so easy to dismiss. He should give an example of me "not getting to the point" since it bothers him so much. Committed to the Endeavor lynch now though. 

[Cú Chulainn]

I'm here and rereading the game. Get excited!

@BBM time check?

[BBM]

Votals 3.4

Endeavor (4): Lapis Lazuli, Kokichi Ouma, Mello
Beast (2): The Batter, Nagito Komaeda
Lapis Lazuli (2): Endeavor, Beast

Not Voting (2): Omar Little, Toshio Ozaki

Slightly less than 2.5 hours left in the phase. 5 votes to hammer.

[Rain Nijika]

I overslept, but I'm here now.

My issue with New Beast is that while they have this content, some of it feels easy buddying (like defending Crowler or Faye MLs. They flipped town, so arguing that they were bad MLs is easy to retroactively do, while he is ignoring that Faye absolutely brought her lynch upon herself.), while other parts, like the case on me, are shallow. For having reread the game, you would think his case wouldn't rely almost exclusively on my first post/vote of the game since I subbed in, with the rest of my content being nullish. And even with that case in mind, Mello has already pointed out that it is a misrepresentation/not a completed argument.

He just looks plain bad to me, and I had that feeling even before the vote came up.

[Cú Chulainn]

Okay I'll do this in the night because I'm skimming too fast and nothing is sinking in.

I don't think scum!Beast has a real reason to enter the game in the way that they did unless their scumbuddy is also under pressure (aka it's Endeavour). Scum Beast was likely next on the lynch block regardless of what they did and it was more likely that they got attention onto themselves than managed to make themselves look good. Why would scum!Beast fight the Endeavour lynch when they were likely the next priority, even if you think their content has been weird. I can see town!Beast hating this thread on a readthrough because it's 2 days of getting nowhere near lynching scum (Titania and Rick were both nightkills) along with people like Kratos flipping out so naturally as a new player looking in you're going to think "wtf happened here" regardless of alignment. 

If Endeavour flips mafia this is all wrong and we can lynch them but I think there was no gain for scum!Beast to play like this whereas town Beast could be frustrated after agreeing to sub because the game is a mess.

[Olivier]

I still don't get Beast's read on my slot.  Regardless, I'm not bothered by the quality of his reads.  It's fine for someone who caught up with the thread in a day.  I was more bothered by the lack of conclusions presented, and now that they're here, it feels like...they don't really have any scumreads despite all of their reading.  More telling, I think, is that they didn't call out any of the votes/cases on the Endeavor wagon despite hard townreading the slot.  If the slot is obviously town, surely at least ONE person who's willing to vote him is scum?

I'm also a bit frustrated that he didn't react to my vote at all.  

@Mello I'm always hopeful that my final vote of the day is on scum, and that they get lynched.  I'm a bit more confident because my vote isn't for consolidation and the slot in question has put out more content than Faye.  Who would you prefer to lynch, Beast or Endeavor?

@Kokichi Ouma IMO Beast's defense of Endeavor implies anything but scum/scum.  I don't see why Scum!Beast would jump into the thread only to hard defend his buddy, when he could instead jump on the bandwagon and post his contrarian opinions in the meantime.  I can get where your vote is coming from (and I sincerely hope that you're right, since I doubt Beast is going to get lynched), but I'm reading more obvious scum intent in Beast's latest posts than I read in Endeavor's.  It reads as a scum sub in to me, where they post a lot of content but not a lot of relevant opinions at the end of the day.

@Toshio Ozaki Why are you committed to the Endeavor lynch now?  Are you townreading Beast?  Explain your position here.

@Lapis Lazuli What's your lynch priority of Endeavor VS Beast?

[Olivier]

16 minutes ago, Kokichi Ouma said:

I don't think scum!Beast has a real reason to enter the game in the way that they did unless their scumbuddy is also under pressure (aka it's Endeavour). Scum Beast was likely next on the lynch block regardless of what they did and it was more likely that they got attention onto themselves than managed to make themselves look good. Why would scum!Beast fight the Endeavour lynch when they were likely the next priority, even if you think their content has been weird. I can see town!Beast hating this thread on a readthrough because it's 2 days of getting nowhere near lynching scum (Titania and Rick were both nightkills) along with people like Kratos flipping out so naturally as a new player looking in you're going to think "wtf happened here" regardless of alignment. 

Do you think Scum!Beast would have a general understanding of the lynch priority on a skim?  If I subbed in and looked at all of the votals for today, I'd assume that Endeavor was definitely going to get lynched and nothing I would do would change that, regardless of alignment.  I also think Town!Beast would have criticized the votes on the Endeavor wagon if they were sure the slot was town instead of saying "oh, this one Endeavor post is townie".  It's lazy at best. To be clear, though, I don't think him hating on the thread is scummy.  It's just frustrating even though town objectively played poorly for Days 2/3 (regardless of Endeavor's flip, being on autopilot is not good) because I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing differently as a player.

[Olivier]

Also I might not be on at phase end.

[Cú Chulainn]

11 minutes ago, Nagito Komaeda said:

@Kokichi Ouma IMO Beast's defense of Endeavor implies anything but scum/scum.  I don't see why Scum!Beast would jump into the thread only to hard defend his buddy, when he could instead jump on the bandwagon and post his contrarian opinions in the meantime.  I can get where your vote is coming from (and I sincerely hope that you're right, since I doubt Beast is going to get lynched), but I'm reading more obvious scum intent in Beast's latest posts than I read in Endeavor's.  It reads as a scum sub in to me, where they post a lot of content but not a lot of relevant opinions at the end of the day.

I don't think it has to be scum/scum but I don't think scum!Beast makes sense without that happening. I also think it's hard to be relevant when the lynch seemed very static for almost the entire day and picking fights with the entire game almost is just not smart for scum!beast.

1 minute ago, Nagito Komaeda said:

Do you think Scum!Beast would have a general understanding of the lynch priority on a skim?  If I subbed in and looked at all of the votals for today, I'd assume that Endeavor was definitely going to get lynched and nothing I would do would change that, regardless of alignment.  I also think Town!Beast would have criticized the votes on the Endeavor wagon if they were sure the slot was town instead of saying "oh, this one Endeavor post is townie".  It's lazy at best. To be clear, though, I don't think him hating on the thread is scummy.  It's just frustrating even though town objectively played poorly for Days 2/3 (regardless of Endeavor's flip, being on autopilot is not good) because I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing differently as a player.

Yeah because the votals were very plain to see and also their buddy could have been around to talk with them anyway. I think most people posted around when Beast was thera nyway.

[Rain Nijika]

I can see what you're saying  Ouma but I think the fact that they brought up that very point (about causing a mess) works against them because it could be WIFOM.

@Nagito Komaeda I still think Endeavour's the better lynch today. I'm not opposed to switching onto him, but I don't think going for a turbo at ~1 hour left is a good idea, as much as I wanted to do it last night.

 

[Cú Chulainn]

Wait they did? Where?

[Rain Nijika]

12 hours ago, Beast said:

To the rest of the game: Why would I raise eight hundred ways of hell when Endeavor was at L-1, and WHY would I attempt to hard-defend him?  And then, why would I post a bunch of things that are contradictory to the rest of the game logic?  Scum strategy would be to be more active than the last two posters, without drawing lynch attention away from Endeavor.  I'm going to make myself useful, even if I'm a corpse.

Obviously not verbatim, but it's the same idea. Just above my last post before I went to bed.

I might be misreading that though.

[All Might]

We're committed because there's like an hour left.

[Olivier]

4 minutes ago, Kokichi Ouma said:

I don't think it has to be scum/scum but I don't think scum!Beast makes sense without that happening. I also think it's hard to be relevant when the lynch seemed very static for almost the entire day and picking fights with the entire game almost is just not smart for scum!beast.

Yeah because the votals were very plain to see and also their buddy could have been around to talk with them anyway. I think most people posted around when Beast was thera nyway.

The first part seemed townie to me but I can't reconcile that with the rest of his play.  I wouldn't mind him being contrarian but it doesn't seem like he's getting anything out of it.

Oh right, scumbuddies are a thing; must be nice, having OC!  Yeah, I can't see anyone telling him that defending Endeavor is a good idea unless 1) they thought it'd make him look better for tomorrow's lynch 2) are Endeavor or 3) he did it on his own.

[Olivier]

If the lynch is set in stone anyways, do @Toshio Ozaki @Lapis Lazuli @Kokichi Ouma mind if I hammer now?  I might be gone soon and I'd really rather see a flip now instead of having to stress about it for the next few hours.  Praying that Kokichi was right about Endeavor being scum that's given up.

[Rain Nijika]

I don't mind because I imagine Ozaki's going to hammer otherwise.

Take the other two's opinions into account, though.

[All Might]

I'm fine with it.

[Cú Chulainn]

I'm only half here. Do it.

[Olivier]

##Unvote

##Vote: Endeavor