My ideas for a replayable FE

[Bt123]

I started thinking about what I want out of a new FE, and my biggest request is that it be replayable. This is one of the greatest strengths of Fates and Awakening. The class-changing system and the child units mean that a second and third play through can each be unique, while the GBA games were the exact same on each playthrough. With that in mind, I created a small list of things I'd like to see in FE:Switch.

1) Lots of Seals. I preferred Fates' class system to Awakening's solely because MyCastle gave me an unlimited supply of Seals. This meant that I can play through the game multiple times and never have a unit be the same. Awakening also had a nice class system, but the limited access to Seals until mid-game made the game relatively monotonous until then.

2) Multiple armies. I absolutely loved Echoes, and my favorite part was the fact that you controlled two separate armies. I would really enjoy a game with two Avatars, each leading his/her own army. Twins, maybe?

3) Variable recruiting. One of the things that makes replaying FE with different teams difficult is that you always have the same characters for the same chapters. So, and this is my most radical idea, I'd like to see that change. Imagine this. There are two armies, one led by a male avatar and one by his female twin. Aside from a small group of core characters for each army, there is no recruiting done in story missions- only in paralogues. While the male and female avatars have their own separate story missions, like Alm and Celica, they share paralogues. Therefore, you must choose which army each character will be assigned to. They have unique supports with each army, and maybe even different promotion paths. For example, a cavalier sent to one army may become a Great Knight, while the cavalier sent to the other army becomes a Paladin. I, for one, think this would lend tremendous replayability to FE.

[Dandy Druid]

22 minutes ago, Bt123 said:

I started thinking about what I want out of a new FE, and my biggest request is that it be replayable. This is one of the greatest strengths of Fates and Awakening. The class-changing system and the child units mean that a second and third play through can each be unique, while the GBA games were the exact same on each playthrough. With that in mind, I created a small list of things I'd like to see in FE:Switch.

1) Lots of Seals. I preferred Fates' class system to Awakening's solely because MyCastle gave me an unlimited supply of Seals. This meant that I can play through the game multiple times and never have a unit be the same. Awakening also had a nice class system, but the limited access to Seals until mid-game made the game relatively monotonous until then.

2) Multiple armies. I absolutely loved Echoes, and my favorite part was the fact that you controlled two separate armies. I would really enjoy a game with two Avatars, each leading his/her own army. Twins, maybe?

3) Variable recruiting. One of the things that makes replaying FE with different teams difficult is that you always have the same characters for the same chapters. So, and this is my most radical idea, I'd like to see that change. Imagine this. There are two armies, one led by a male avatar and one by his female twin. Aside from a small group of core characters for each army, there is no recruiting done in story missions- only in paralogues. While the male and female avatars have their own separate story missions, like Alm and Celica, they share paralogues. Therefore, you must choose which army each character will be assigned to. They have unique supports with each army, and maybe even different promotion paths. For example, a cavalier sent to one army may become a Great Knight, while the cavalier sent to the other army becomes a Paladin. I, for one, think this would lend tremendous replayability to FE.

I don't want to be that bitch, but I'm gonna be that bitch and say the GBA games had variable recruiting and path splits. All 3 of them in fact. So it's not really fair of you to give them this criticism, when they did something you're asking for. Not to be rude, but you may want to refresh your memory on them, if you have played/watch them. Plus they all give you a ton of characters to work with, so you can try different teams or challenges each playthrough.

FE6: Lalum vs. Elphin (their route led to different characters) AND Ilia vs. Sacae (so there were 2 route splits that offered different chapters AND different characters in each split. So potentially 4 different playthroughs, not counting all of the playthroughs you could make with making different teams!)

FE7: Eliwood vs. Hector

FE8: Eirika vs. Ephraim

Shadow Dragon also had an instance of doing this as well. (Samson vs. Arran) as well as Thracia 776 (Salem and whathisname. It's been a while). You may also want to count Genealogy if you consider the subs varied recruiting.

Also, I don't like the idea of a mess of seals. There's enough variety already imo. A character shouldn't be viable only through class changing. They're all designed to work in their given class. They may not be the best, but they work.

Also, the idea of separate paths but the same paralogues sounds strange. I would need to see how it looks on the map in-game. Plus 2 avatars sound mehhh. I'd rather have a fully designed character with a personality than a bland self-insert with very few character qualities. From a storytelling perspective, it would seem like a waste to put 2 blank slates in a place where 2 characters overcoming personal struggles in a position of power could be. I'd probably relate more to defined characters rather than an avatar that doesn't undergo a huge development arc over the story. I don't mind having an avatar in the game, but for them to be not only 1 protagonist, but 2, seems too much. I'd rather have them as an advisor or an up up-and-coming soldier moving through the ranks. Tear Ring Saga's protagonists do a decent of job of having dual protagonists on a world map setting. It also has varied recruiting as well.

[Bt123]

7 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

I don't want to be that bitch, but I'm gonna be that bitch and say the GBA games had variable recruiting and path splits. All 3 of them in fact. So it's not really fair of you to give them this criticism, when they did something you're asking for. Not to be rude, but you may want to refresh your memory on them, if you have played/watch them. Plus they all give you a ton of characters to work with, so you can try different teams or challenges each playthrough.

FE6: Lalum vs. Elphin (their route led to different characters) AND Ilia vs. Sacae (so there were 2 route splits that offered different chapters AND different characters in each split. So potentially 4 different playthroughs, not counting all of the playthroughs you could make with making different teams!)

FE7: Eliwood vs. Hector

FE8: Eirika vs. Ephraim

Shadow Dragon also had an instance of doing this as well. (Samson vs. Arran) as well as Thracia 776 (Salem and whathisname. It's been a while). You may also want to count Genealogy if you consider the subs varied recruiting.

Also, I don't like the idea of a mess of seals. There's enough variety already imo. A character shouldn't be viable only through class changing. They're all designed to work in their given class. They may not be the best, but they work.

Also, the idea of separate paths but the same paralogues sounds strange. I would need to see how it looks on the map in-game. Plus 2 avatars sound mehhh. I'd rather have a fully designed character with a personality than a bland self-insert with very few character qualities. From a storytelling perspective, it would seem like a waste to put 2 blank slates in a place where 2 characters overcoming personal struggles in a position of power could be. I'd probably relate more to defined characters rather than an avatar that doesn't undergo a huge development arc over the story. I don't mind having an avatar in the game, but for them to be not only 1 protagonist, but 2, seems too much. I'd rather have them as an advisor or an up up-and-coming soldier moving through the ranks. Tear Ring Saga's protagonists do a decent of job of having dual protagonists on a world map setting. It also has varied recruiting as well.

You're right about FE6, that was my bad. That's also my favorite of the GBA titles. FE7 and FE8 were the exact same on each playthrough, at least from a standpoint of having the same characters in the same classes for the same chapters in each playthrough. Sure, they have multiple paths, but each path played the same each time. Admittedly, it's been a while since I played them, but I don't remember there being much choice. I didn't mean to hate on the GBA games, I was just suggesting that having to choose which army to place characters in would be a cool change. Also, when I say Avatar, I mean somebody who can begin or easily switch to a different class and have a different boon/bane in each playthrough. What I mean is that  being able to select Eliwood and Hectors classes and their boon/bane would make them "avatars". So the devs can still give them personality and everything, I just want a bit of gameplay customization.

[May]

I think what made Awakening and Fates replay-able was the Support system, honestly. People go through hundreds of hours going through supports, and then training their children with alternate classes. Some people I know, spend hundreds on a Lunatic file and then proceed into Lunatic+. Both games had so much variety whereas Echoes was almost one and done. But honestly, I'd prefer a one and done kind of method because it doesn't spread the game too thin like it did for Fates. I loved the presentation of Echoes, and I would love that kind of presentation for future remakes (if it does ever come). As for Switch, I don't mind if it has a lot of variety, but I just wish for a better story and supports than Fates.

[De Geso]

What I think would be cool is a similar system to X-COM (Mangs talked about this in his "ideal fire emblem game" video). There are all kinds of different edits you can make to each playthrough that adds a lot of variability and makes every playthrough different.

So you could have stuff like "no growths, randomized, 100% growths," etc. Would be neat!

[Shadow Mir]

Yeah, I'm kinda not too big on two avatars - people are already bitching about one...

[Morian]

If the game is good, then it's replayable. If the game has no replayability that means it has something bad in it that can't retain value and pushes me away.

Supports and split routes certainly helps, but I don't see them as the main factors (but oh well, not everyone has the same values). What I value is good fundamentals (such as balance with every class/growths/weapon/forge/whatever system, map design that gives me multiple options, fast pace, writing and gameworld that sells me a fantasy, etc.)

Many people liked and disliked Awakening for example. I liked it and replayed the game to death, while others disliked it and doesn't want to touch the game ever again. I loved the Tellius games but I find hard to return to them for how slow paced they are (and the guide heavy cryptic secrets and mechanics). I don't know why but I don't want to play SoV again. What's my point with this? I dunno, lol.

[Jotari]

Wait, I'm reasonably sure you don't have infinite seals in Fates until you upgrade the Staff Shop a third time (which happens pretty close to the end game). Before that there's a limited amount of seals, probably not all that different to Awakening's amount in total.

[Bt123]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Wait, I'm reasonably sure you don't have infinite seals in Fates until you upgrade the Staff Shop a third time (which happens pretty close to the end game). Before that there's a limited amount of seals, probably not all that different to Awakening's amount in total.

In your own castle that's true, but you can visit castles with level 3 rod shops for infinite seals

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

Awakening/Fates honestly really set the bar for big replayability I just honestly see it expanded from an Avatar, Pairing, Recruitable and DLC perspective for FE Switch. I do like your idea of Twin Avatars don't see that happening but neat idea. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Have a set of toggleable options for people to spice up their replay. I feel like this is the best way to have replayability without drastically changing what will probably be a great strategy game or asking you to buy the game three times like with Fates. It's easy: 

• Iron Man mode, it's standard Classic mode, except you can't reset a chapter. The game will auto save after each action like in the GBA series
• Randomizer mode, randomize character recruitments, stats, stat growths, and classes for wacky outcomes - Don't let ROMhackers have all the fun.
• Fatigue, characters now suffer from a fatigue mechanic that you need to play around. It may be my bias against fatigue in previous games, but I generally think fatigue can only be fun as an alternate setting, or as a mechanic so light and non-hindering that it doesn't impact the game much at all like with Echoes. I prefer the former option.
• Friend mode, all recruitable characters are replaced with avatars from your friends list at an appropriate level for that chapter, at least until the game has run out of avatars to pick from before going back to the standard characters. This mode can really hit big with Youtubers and streamers playing with their fans' creations

And don't waste too much time trying to balance these modes either. If you want a good, fair way of upping the challenge, just play on the next highest difficulty setting, that's what they're there for. And I'm sure a team of people making the game could flesh out a longer, better list of stuff that meshes well with the game they're making.

[Jedi]

OP I think you grossly underestimate how much people find pretty much every FE replayable just from their cast size alone, not to mention the people that play LTC, challenge runs and all sorts of things. 

[Namarid]

Replayability ,for me, depends on how fun the game is. Conquest and awakening have taken up many hours of my time, while echoes was only worth 2 playthroughs for me.

I agree with the OP that class switching and avatars add a lot of replayability but that means nothing if the gameplay is horrible. The best example of this is revelations which has a huge cast and class switching potential but I never want to play it again. 

Not too sure on the whole double avatar idea. Split armies are cool though.

 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Have a set of toggleable options for people to spice up their replay. I feel like this is the best way to have replayability without drastically changing what will probably be a great strategy game or asking you to buy the game three times like with Fates. It's easy: 

• Iron Man mode, it's standard Classic mode, except you can't reset a chapter. The game will auto save after each action like in the GBA series
• Randomizer mode, randomize character recruitments, stats, stat growths, and classes for wacky outcomes - Don't let ROMhackers have all the fun.
• Fatigue, characters now suffer from a fatigue mechanic that you need to play around. It may be my bias against fatigue in previous games, but I generally think fatigue can only be fun as an alternate setting, or as a mechanic so light and non-hindering that it doesn't impact the game much at all like with Echoes. I prefer the former option.
• Friend mode, all recruitable characters are replaced with avatars from your friends list at an appropriate level for that chapter, at least until the game has run out of avatars to pick from before going back to the standard characters. This mode can really hit big with Youtubers and streamers playing with their fans' creations

And don't waste too much time trying to balance these modes either. If you want a good, fair way of upping the challenge, just play on the next highest difficulty setting, that's what they're there for. And I'm sure a team of people making the game could flesh out a longer, better list of stuff that meshes well with the game they're making.

Fixed Growth mode would be good too. By that I mean, no randomisation on level gains. Characters stick completely to their averages.

[edgelordweeaboo]

all it really needs to be more replayable is to have choices that affect the story and have route splits so there's different chapters you can take on by doing certain things. i don't see why they ever stopped doing this. i'd like to see this come back and i'd like them to do it more. also just add some extra modes to the game as well.

[Slumber]

23 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Thracia 776 (Salem and whathisname. It's been a while)

Salem's not variable. You're thinking of Sleuf, whose other path counterpart, is whatsherface AKA Miranda. There's also Shannam and Conomore, who are recruited on Miranda's route, and Ilios and Amalda, who can only be recruited on Sleuf's route. Additionally, Olwen has to die for you to recruit Ilios.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen, I've been your insufferable Thracia 776 snob for the evening. Have a good night.

Anyway, I see a lot of people have watched Mangs' "Ultimate Fire Emblem" video. I agree with the XCOMesque campaign modifiers. A randomizer option would be possibly the best thing for replayability.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Slumber

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Slumber said:

Salem's not variable. You're thinking of Sleuf, whose other path counterpart, is whatsherface AKA Miranda. There's also Shannam and Conomore, who are recruited on Miranda's route, and Ilios and Amalda, who can only be recruited on Sleuf's route. Additionally, Olwen has to die for you to recruit Ilios.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen, I've been your insufferable Thracia 776 snob for the evening. Have a good night.

Anyway, I see a lot of people have watched Mangs' "Ultimate Fire Emblem" video. I agree with the XCOMesque campaign modifiers. A randomizer option would be possibly the best thing for replayability.

Don't forget Cyas and Sety!

 

[UNLEASH IT]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Don't forget Cyas and Sety!

 

>implying that's even a choice

Who would even pick Cyas?

[Slumber]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Don't forget Cyas and Sety!

 

You're correct. I was just thinking of path exclusive characters, but Ced/Saias is another character choice. 

Edited December 30, 2017 by Slumber

[Dandy Druid]

On 12/28/2017 at 8:55 PM, YouSquiddinMe said:

What I think would be cool is a similar system to X-COM (Mangs talked about this in his "ideal fire emblem game" video). There are all kinds of different edits you can make to each playthrough that adds a lot of variability and makes every playthrough different.

So you could have stuff like "no growths, randomized, 100% growths," etc. Would be neat!

I actually like this idea the most. A "pick my edits" or a randomizer/growths sort of things for a new game plus. Could really be cool in an Echoes installment, to start characters in alternate classes. (Someone had asked for an FE4 pick my edits recently, which is why the idea seems to appealing to me. Dancer Daisy = Finally a Daisy that isn't almost useless)

22 hours ago, Slumber said:

Salem's not variable. You're thinking of Sleuf, whose other path counterpart, is whatsherface AKA Miranda. There's also Shannam and Conomore, who are recruited on Miranda's route, and Ilios and Amalda, who can only be recruited on Sleuf's route. Additionally, Olwen has to die for you to recruit Ilios.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen, I've been your insufferable Thracia 776 snob for the evening. Have a good night.

Anyway, I see a lot of people have watched Mangs' "Ultimate Fire Emblem" video. I agree with the XCOMesque campaign modifiers. A randomizer option would be possibly the best thing for replayability.

Thanks for correcting me. It's been a while since I've checked out ol' Thracia 776, so I forgot some of the later characters. Sleuf... lol I would hate that name.

[TadpoleSuperHero]

On 12/28/2017 at 10:23 PM, Bt123 said:

I started thinking about what I want out of a new FE, and my biggest request is that it be replayable. This is one of the greatest strengths of Fates and Awakening. The class-changing system and the child units mean that a second and third play through can each be unique, while the GBA games were the exact same on each playthrough. With that in mind, I created a small list of things I'd like to see in FE:Switch.

1) Lots of Seals. I preferred Fates' class system to Awakening's solely because MyCastle gave me an unlimited supply of Seals. This meant that I can play through the game multiple times and never have a unit be the same. Awakening also had a nice class system, but the limited access to Seals until mid-game made the game relatively monotonous until then.

2) Multiple armies. I absolutely loved Echoes, and my favorite part was the fact that you controlled two separate armies. I would really enjoy a game with two Avatars, each leading his/her own army. Twins, maybe?

3) Variable recruiting. One of the things that makes replaying FE with different teams difficult is that you always have the same characters for the same chapters. So, and this is my most radical idea, I'd like to see that change. Imagine this. There are two armies, one led by a male avatar and one by his female twin. Aside from a small group of core characters for each army, there is no recruiting done in story missions- only in paralogues. While the male and female avatars have their own separate story missions, like Alm and Celica, they share paralogues. Therefore, you must choose which army each character will be assigned to. They have unique supports with each army, and maybe even different promotion paths. For example, a cavalier sent to one army may become a Great Knight, while the cavalier sent to the other army becomes a Paladin. I, for one, think this would lend tremendous replayability to FE.

My biggest issue with your contention about the GBA games (aside from other points well articulated by others before I got here) is that you can use a VERY limited number of units in the final chapter, in all three GBA titles. You recruit three, sometimes four times as many characters as you can field in the final chapter. That gives HUGE replayability in deciding which characters to use, and though you have multiple characters in the same class, their starting stats and growths are very different, so choosing, say, Lowen over Sain or Rebecca over Wil makes for a very different experience, despite using the same class. 

I can understand where you're coming from, but I think you're missing out on some grand replayability. Coming up with themed runs, restricted runs (no mages, only horses, mages only, fliers only, etc.), changes up how you approach every chapter in the game. One of the brilliant game design choices of the FE series is that you can recruit far more characters than you can ever use. Every game until Awakening has this same level of replayability (though I would contend that the GBA games and Path of Radiance do it best), where you have a wealth of characters and have to choose. 

My sister and I love replaying the GBA games and the Radiant series, and lately we've been choosing each other's teams by character, or giving each other restrictions or themes to stick to, for our runs. It's making for delightful revisits, and I can honestly say I continue to get excited for a next run in these games.

(I love Awakening, by the way, but I don't find it very replayable. It's extremely strong in continuous play, though, and that's a valuable strength. You CAN max out every character, you can reclass infinitely (something that breaks the game, but in my opinion also makes it incredibly fun, and you have to work for it), and there's an actual postgame. So replayability isn't everything in making a game last long after you first beat it, and Awakening does something really special in that regard.)

[Morian]

I have an idea for replayability, or at least an improved existing mechanic: map alteration.

Dragon Veins in Fates do this but in a very limited way I think. Imagine if the defense chapters you build a fort, putting in things like pitfalls, ballistas, breakeable walls and such. Each time you would ask "what if I build this and place this character here?"

It could bring many interesting ways to clear a chapter.