Anyone else super bummed that Warriors doesn't have anyone from FE9 and 10?

[Arthur97]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Not necessarily. A large number of the old fans don't like the news games but I'm willing to guess that a larger extend does like them all. But if that's their starting point, their favored era or the one they hold in the highest regard. 

I like the new games well enough but I prefer the older characters and am annoyed that the game went out of its way to ignore them. And I can empathize with older fans not liking the newer games because those games do drop certain aspects that they liked about those games. 

Those fans have every right to be annoyed because they aren't just ignored but are the only part of the fanbase that got ignored. The Archenea fans didn't get the best deal in this game but they were at least taken in consideration. 

Still, more people statistically started with the newer games. If someone had to be thrown under the bus, it makes sense that it was them (after Jugdral). That may not make them any less annoyed, but it does seem to be the logical course of action.

[guedesbrawl]

2 hours ago, Florete said:

It depends on how they do it. In the base game, each focus game's characters were a specific "group." The primary shepherds (+ Cordelia) and the Ylissean royal kids for Awakening, all royal family members for Fates, and...well, Marth, Caeda, and Tiki. Point is, if they follow that trend for Tellius, they're going to start with a chunk of the Greil Mercenaries, and since I can't see them adding all of them (too many men), they're going to add the most relevant, initial ones, which is how I determined my list. Black Knight is a villain, so unless they decide to give us playable villains he's not happening. No beast laguz is really relevant enough unless Skrimir manages to make it in. I see no particular reason why Tibarn would make it in, his relevance is similar to the likes of Basilio and Flavia. Nephenee and Mia aren't relevant enough, though popularity could get them in as DLC, maybe Mia in the base game if it's RD-focused, but they might not want to add another sword.

I don't think it would be RD-focused. How is that Ike's "current identity" outside of Smash, which is even further from FE canon than Heroes and Warriors? PoR Ike won the CYL vote, both Ikes in Heroes are based on PoR, and among the fanbase PoR is just a better-known and more well-liked game (as much as it pains me for that to be true). I do think they'd make an excuse to slot at least Micaiah in, though, and quite possibly Sothe, as well.

Black Knight is a villain but he's a completely different beast than the Dark Mage trio, being a popular, important and unique character.

Relevance is not the only factor for the game's roster. A lot of things influence it. Popularity is one (Owain, Tharja, Cordleia, Niles, Oboro, Navarre, Tiki...), and the PoR cats have a fair amount of it., Uniqueness is another (Olivia, Lissa). And really, the Laguz as a whole are super relevant to Tellius. Tibarn became a Lord during some maps of Radiant Dawn, being held in comparable importance to the other 2 lords. Again: uniqueness.

Heroes is literally the only thing in recent memeory to use PoR!Ike, and that's because they can effectively sell you 10 versions of the same character if they want to. Echoes, Smash 4, Codename STEAM, Fates... all use RD!Ike. The double Ike in the CYL poll doesn't matter, but it's easily justifiable by him not getting as much focus on that game.

PoR offers very little to the story they can use in the next game both in terms of conflict-plot and villains. RD has the whole Daein vs Crimea war which offers a lot of easily justifiable conflict against named characters which is part of the game's appeal.

If they ignored Gaius for Olivia despite Tharja being the same pack for fanservice (+ broken armor models), they are definitively eyeing Sothe or at least Jaffar/mathew for FEW2.

Edited January 2, 2018 by guedesbrawl

[Florete]

12 minutes ago, guedesbrawl said:

Black Knight is a villain but he's a completely different beast than the Dark Mage trio, being a popular, important and unique character.

Relevance is not the only factor for the game's roster. A lot of things influence it. Popularity is one (Owain, Tharja, Cordleia, Niles, Oboro, Navarre, Tiki...), and the PoR cats have a fair amount of it., Uniqueness is another (Olivia, Lissa). And really, the Laguz as a whole are super relevant to Tellius. Tibarn became a Lord during some maps of Radiant Dawn, being held in comparable importance to the other 2 lords. Again: uniqueness.

Heroes is literally the only thing in recent memeory to use PoR!Ike, and that's because they can effectively sell you 10 versions of the same character if they want to. Echoes, Smash 4, Codename STEAM, Fates... all use RD!Ike. The double Ike in the CYL poll doesn't matter, but it's easily justifiable by him not getting as much focus on that game.

PoR offers very little to the story they can use in the next game both in terms of conflict-plot and villains. RD has the whole Daein vs Crimea war which offers a lot of easily justifiable conflict against named characters which is part of the game's appeal.

If they ignored Gaius for Olivia despite Tharja being the same pack for fanservice (+ broken armor models), they are definitively eyeing Sothe or at least Jaffar/mathew for FEW2.

If they're willing to make villains playable, BK will definitely be in, that I don't disagree with. But that's an "if." I imagine part of the reason they went with our mage trio in the first place is because they weren't that popular (so people wouldn't clamor to have them playable) and were easy to implement.

Tiki and Lissa are both relevant here. Cordelia, Owain, Niles, and Oboro have popularity backing them, but also enough relevance to fit in (and three of those are only actually playable via DLC). Tharja and Olivia are DLC, and DLC was said to be more about popularity. Navarre is the one oddity here here. My only theory is that they chose him instead of Ogma (who has greater relevance) because he could easily use Lyn's moveset while Ogma couldn't realistically use anyone's, but it's up in the air. I don't think Tibarn being the leader for two maps makes much of a difference; Geoffrey got two and Nephenee and Lucia each got one. It's just how RD went. You make a good point about the Laguz as a whole being very relevant to Tellius, though, which could justify getting a couple in.

All of those examples of RD Ike being used are based on his amiibo, which links back to Smash. If it's not amiibo-based, it's PoR Ike.

The plots of Awakening, Fates, and Shadow Dragon meant very little to the plot of Warriors, so I don't see why that's an issue for PoR. Early PoR still has Elincia's issues and Ike's rivalry with the BK (he can appear even if he doesn't end up playable), so there's enough there to do something with.

Only time will tell, though.

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, guedesbrawl said:

PoR offers very little to the story they can use in the next game both in terms of conflict-plot and villains. RD has the whole Daein vs Crimea war which offers a lot of easily justifiable conflict against named characters which is part of the game's appeal.

Daein VS Crimea war was more important in PoR than RD. 

I don't think it would be RD-focused. How is that Ike's "current identity" outside of Smash, which is even further from FE canon than Heroes and Warriors? PoR Ike won the CYL vote, both Ikes in Heroes are based on PoR, and among the fanbase PoR is just a better-known and more well-liked game (as much as it pains me for that to be true). I do think they'd make an excuse to slot at least Micaiah in, though, and quite possibly Sothe, as well.

While PoR Ike may have won the CYL vote, the sum of RD votes were higher than PoR. I don't see what is preventing them from focusing on both games since most of the characters are the same. 

[Homosexualbeard]

I just want Gatrie and Shinon.

[guedesbrawl]

7 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Daein VS Crimea war was more important in PoR than RD. 

But it suits the plot of Warriors far more in RD, where the enemies can be playable characters and you can feed the tension from both sides.

[guedesbrawl]

9 hours ago, Florete said:

If they're willing to make villains playable, BK will definitely be in, that I don't disagree with. But that's an "if." I imagine part of the reason they went with our mage trio in the first place is because they weren't that popular (so people wouldn't clamor to have them playable) and were easy to implement.

Tiki and Lissa are both relevant here. Cordelia, Owain, Niles, and Oboro have popularity backing them, but also enough relevance to fit in (and three of those are only actually playable via DLC). Tharja and Olivia are DLC, and DLC was said to be more about popularity. Navarre is the one oddity here here. My only theory is that they chose him instead of Ogma (who has greater relevance) because he could easily use Lyn's moveset while Ogma couldn't realistically use anyone's, but it's up in the air. I don't think Tibarn being the leader for two maps makes much of a difference; Geoffrey got two and Nephenee and Lucia each got one. It's just how RD went. You make a good point about the Laguz as a whole being very relevant to Tellius, though, which could justify getting a couple in.

All of those examples of RD Ike being used are based on his amiibo, which links back to Smash. If it's not amiibo-based, it's PoR Ike.

The plots of Awakening, Fates, and Shadow Dragon meant very little to the plot of Warriors, so I don't see why that's an issue for PoR. Early PoR still has Elincia's issues and Ike's rivalry with the BK (he can appear even if he doesn't end up playable), so there's enough there to do something with.

Only time will tell, though.

That's definitively the logic for the dark mages, but like i said, other games have different demands to be met. Black Knight does meet a lot of the criteria the basic playable characters do.

How do these guys I listed under popularity are relevant? They are one-chapter people... unless you are dumping everyone from a relevant GAMe as relevant people. That's a low bar. Olivia does have some popularity but a lot of people in awakening beat her, like Gaius, Severa and Lon'qu and Virion. Navarre was most likely chose because they wanted that dual blade moveset--from the way the interviews played out they sound like they had their minds set on that before IS wanted Lyn--but regardless, Ogma's gameplay niche is basically Ike without flair. Merric was likely ignored for similar reasons, being a interference to an easy pick for FEW2 (Soren). Tibarn wasn't just the leader for two maps, they gave him as much control of the army as Ike and Miccy did, something not even Elincia got. But who knows.

Yes, they all go back to his Amiibo--the Ike Nintendo is advertising the most these past few years. You argued FE canon but that doesn't matter in the slightest: they want sales. Ike's identity to the public at large is RD, if they have to choose one, they'll surely go with that.

Shadow Dragon maybe, but the whole conflict of the Awakening and Fates arcs in Warriors was heavily based on the original game's, especially Awakening. Evne SD had clear influences like Gharnef being the guy guarding the legendary weapons that conveniently would've let him backstab the big bad later on.

[Skyla]

On 31/12/2017 at 9:30 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Frankly, I'm nowhere near "super bummed" - among the Tellius cast, who the hell would have a respectable chance to get in besides Ike???? Well, that, and the game already has some of the characters I wanted in.

 

On 31/12/2017 at 10:53 PM, Arthur97 said:

Not really. Outside of Ike who, let's face it, gets a lot of his popularity from Smash, Tellius isn't that special.

FyI...

Adding Black knights votes from Por and Rd gets him the 10th position.

Soren's votes from Rd and Por when added secures him the 13 or 14th position.

Neph and Mia would get the 10 and 11th position respectively. 

Path of Radiance and Radiant dawn collectively had the third highest scores in the entire poll. 190,767 losing to only Awakening and Fates.

 

As for the topic, I'm sad but not downright upset.

[Arthur97]

30 minutes ago, Skylorella Con said:

 

FyI...

Adding Black knights votes from Por and Rd gets him the 10th position.

Soren's votes from Rd and Por when added secures him the 13 or 14th position.

Neph and Mia would get the 10 and 11th position respectively. 

Path of Radiance and Radiant dawn collectively had the third highest scores in the entire poll. 190,767 losing to only Awakening and Fates.

 

As for the topic, I'm sad but not downright upset.

That poll is suspect for the mere fact you get multiple votes. It makes it more about how dedicated those fans are rather than how many there are, and when you're looking to make something sell the most, you want quantity. Plus, you're adding again. Under that logic, Anna rules the Fire Emblem fandom.

Not that it matters anyways, Awakening and Fates still take the popularity handily since they have over 100,000 more votes without having to add (at least in Awakening's case since Fates is weird), and if you're adding a classic character, Marth really is the one to go for.

[guedesbrawl]

10 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

That poll is suspect for the mere fact you get multiple votes. It makes it more about how dedicated those fans are rather than how many there are, and when you're looking to make something sell the most, you want quantity. Plus, you're adding again. Under that logic, Anna rules the Fire Emblem fandom.

Not that it matters anyways, Awakening and Fates still take the popularity handily since they have over 100,000 more votes without having to add (at least in Awakening's case since Fates is weird), and if you're adding a classic character, Marth really is the one to go for.

Still, it's hard data andthey will definitively keep it in mind

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Skylorella Con said:

 

FyI...

Adding Black knights votes from Por and Rd gets him the 10th position.

Soren's votes from Rd and Por when added secures him the 13 or 14th position.

Neph and Mia would get the 10 and 11th position respectively. 

Path of Radiance and Radiant dawn collectively had the third highest scores in the entire poll. 190,767 losing to only Awakening and Fates.

 

As for the topic, I'm sad but not downright upset.

If you're referring to the CYL poll, I wouldn't take stock in that due to multiple votes... FYI, Oboro got outscored by Selkie in said poll (the former was 60th, the latter 59th) - and this is with the crapload of complaints about Fates' second generation.

[Skyla]

6 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Plus, you're adding again. Under that logic, Anna rules the Fire Emblem fandom.

So? They're basically the same character. Of course their votes were supposed to be added up. Add Anna's votes and she still won't overtake Ike and Lyn.

 

6 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

they have over 100,000 more votes without having to add

Add them with what exactly? They pretty much had individual votes. The only copy were the Awakening trio and their difference was so insignificant that it can be over looked. Their places didn't change regardless of their split.

 

6 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

and if you're adding a classic character, Marth really is the one to go for.

Adding his votes gets him the 5th position.Only one spot higher, which is ONLY due to smash as no other character from Archanea made it except him. Ike gets a lot of his popularity from Smash, true but not all of it as 5 characters from his very unknow game made it in top 10. So Marth's not really one to go for.

Where as Neph and Mia make it from top 20 to to 10. And Soren and Black knight would secure a spot in top 20. Just imagine the Split-vote difference from this. 

5 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

referring to the CYL poll, I wouldn't take stock in that due to multiple votes.

I guess multiple votes is a thing but it implied to every character.

Basically what my point is, Tellius did a lot better then expected. It topped blazing sword, Scared stones and every other title in terms of votes other then Fates & Awakening, which was to be expected. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Skylorella Con
One word: Auto-correct

[NSSKG151]

9 hours ago, Skylorella Con said:

FyI...

Adding Black knights votes from Por and Rd gets him the 10th position.

Soren's votes from Rd and Por when added secures him the 13 or 14th position.

Neph and Mia would get the 10 and 11th position respectively. 

Path of Radiance and Radiant dawn collectively had the third highest scores in the entire poll. 190,767 losing to only Awakening and Fates.

Actually if we are talking about combined numbers for the 'same' character Black Knight would be 14th with 10,195 votes below Donnel's 10,479 votes on the men's side. This is due to Owain/Odin's votes putting him at 12th with 11,639 votes. Soren would be 16th with 9718 combined votes so he does beat Gaius, Inigo and Niles.

Nephenee and Mia are 12th with 13,473 votes and 13th with 13,354 votes respectively. This is due to Tiki's combined votes bumping her up to 6th with 16,523 votes putting her under FCorrin's 19,599 votes. Anna also gets moved up to 8th with 15,441 combined votes under Eirika's 16,423 votes. And of course Micaiah gets knocked out of the top 10 females due to this putting her in 11th now. But at least the three Tellius girls beat out Severa/Selena's 10,7433 combined votes along with Nowi and FRobin .

2 hours ago, Skylorella Con said:

Adding his votes gets him the 5th position.Only one spot higher, which is ONLY due to smash as no other character from Archanea made it except him. Ike gets a lot of his popularity from Smash, true but not all of it as 5 characters from his very unknow game made it in top 10. So Marth's not really one to go for.

Marth's 24,547 combined votes beats out Chrom's 23,803 votes putting Marth in 4th instead of Chrom. Also, Tiki should be in 6th place with her combined votes so that makes another Archanea character who ranked high. Caeda is also not that far behind with her 7243 combined votes putting her in 26th place on the women's side. And this is before Warriors came out.

But like others have said, I don't believe the CYL polls depicts how popular a character actually is especially if you could vote for the same character more than once. I personally still think Lucina is the most popular female character even though there is a 1622 vote difference between her and Lyn if you give Masked Marth's votes to Lucina and this is coming from someone who doesn't care about Lucina. The CYL is basically outdated anyways since Echoes and Heroes breathed life into characters most people weren't aware of before so if another CYL-like poll were to occur again I suspect Valentian characters would be ranked much higher now along with others like Reinhardt.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Skylorella Con said:

I guess multiple votes is a thing but it implied to every character.

Doesn't change the fact that, as far as I'm concerned, it's a poor metric. And worse yet, it's outdated.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[DIO]

I guess you missed the months in between E3 and release where everyone was bitching at every announcement being made...

[Arthur97]

16 hours ago, Skylorella Con said:

Adding his votes gets him the 5th position.Only one spot higher, which is ONLY due to smash as no other character from Archanea made it except him. Ike gets a lot of his popularity from Smash, true but not all of it as 5 characters from his very unknow game made it in top 10. So Marth's not really one to go for.

Popularity is largely irrelevant when it comes to Marth though. He is the (old) mascot. He is Fire Emblem. They said it best in that you can't have a crossover without Marth.

7 hours ago, DIO said:

I guess you missed the months in between E3 and release where everyone was bitching at every announcement being made...

Isn't that just the nature of this community?

[shadowofchaos]

8 hours ago, DIO said:

I guess you missed the months in between E3 and release where everyone was bitching at every announcement being made...

Mostly English speakers, tbh.

日本人には文句があったけど我儘の態度じゃなかった。

Edited January 3, 2018 by shadowofchaos

[DIO]

3 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Popularity is largely irrelevant when it comes to Marth though. He is the (old) mascot. He is Fire Emblem. They said it best in that you can't have a crossover without Marth.

Isn't that just the nature of this community?

You're not wrong on either accounts

2 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

Mostly English speakers, tbh.

日本人には文句があったけど我儘の態度じゃなかった。

I'll take your word for it.

Nihongo ga sochi wakarimasu, demo mada jouzu ja arimasem.

[shadowofchaos]

50 minutes ago, DIO said:

You're not wrong on either accounts

I'll take your word for it.

Nihongo ga sochi wakarimasu, demo mada jouzu ja arimasem.

Oh shoot. The edit didn't go through.

It had the translation.

"They had their complaints, but none of them were super extreme selfish ones". The latter which I've seen of pretty much saying people who enjoy the game or are excited about it are terrible fans.

[DIO]

4 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Oh shoot. The edit didn't go through.

It had the translation.

"They had their complaints, but none of them were super extreme selfish ones". The latter which I've seen of pretty much saying people who enjoy the game or are excited about it are terrible fans.

An honest mistake, and google translate did give me the gist (I was perplexed at the use of selfish, but turns out it was more accurate then I gave it credit for). Personally, I've got no issue with people not liking the roster decisions (although those that keep quipping 'call me when x or y are added' have long since run their course...), but belittling those that DO enjoy the game...yeah that's a few steps too far IMO.

[shadowofchaos]

2 minutes ago, DIO said:

An honest mistake, and google translate did give me the gist (I was perplexed at the use of selfish, but turns out it was more accurate then I gave it credit for). Personally, I've got no issue with people not liking the roster decisions (although those that keep quipping 'call me when x or y are added' have long since run their course...), but belittling those that DO enjoy the game...yeah that's a few steps too far IMO.

The complaints did indeed include the roster. But not to the extent of how much the west did.

I share that notion.

It was indeed a shame that their roster was mostly composed of Fates/Awakening characters. I will admit that much.

[DIO]

29 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

The complaints did indeed include the roster. But not to the extent of how much the west did.

I share that notion.

It was indeed a shame that their roster was mostly composed of Fates/Awakening characters. I will admit that much.

I think the bulk of it was simply that Shadow Dragon had almost nothing in comparison; a self-same Pegasus knight, the only dragonstone user, and Marth. I'll admit I'm not so familiar with SD and it's follow-up, but I think they could've at least included an armor user and say, Camus. I do ultimately understand they wanted to make JUST a Fates-themed warriors game, and if they'd done so that would've been fine...ish, so long as they included characters beyond the royal family and their retainers. Hell, even having Garon, Sumeragi, Mikoto, and Arete as playable options (or at least as enemies) would've been an interesting notion for Fates Warriors.

 

Despite how fun the game is (nearing about ninty hours thus far; not bad between the likes of BoTW, Odyssey, and Xenoblade 2), there's a startling lack of play-styles outside of the sword types. We now have three distinct spear sets, but still none of them that are 'armor' type a la knights and generals. I'm fairly confident that Awakening will add a new sword type for Oliva as well as a magic type for Tharja, but by that point its too little too late. If they wanted to go with clones sets, they could've gone for broke and added a lot more characters to at least balance things out. I dunno; part of me does want to see a FE:W 2 if only to see what they'd add (fingers crossed for more magic types, hidden weapons, dragon-users, and featured games).

[guedesbrawl]

39 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

The complaints did indeed include the roster. But not to the extent of how much the west did.

I share that notion.

It was indeed a shame that their roster was mostly composed of Fates/Awakening characters. I will admit that much.

Were there any particular characters from the actual focus games that got a bit of fan backlash in japan simply because they aren't in the game at all, even DLC?

Camus seem to have been the biggest thing the people unhappy with Sd's repping pounce on here in the West. I'm wondering because, if the Japanese feel the same, a potential SoV DLC pack might have Zeke instead of another Cav that did more in SoV iitself...

[Zangetsu]

22 hours ago, Skylorella Con said:

So? They're basically the same character. Of course their votes were supposed to be added up. Add Anna's votes and she still won't overtake Ike and Lyn.

Funny, when I said that I had to go war with that person for not even bothering to clear up a misunderstanding.

20 hours ago, NSSKG151 said:

The CYL is basically outdated anyways since Echoes and Heroes breathed life into characters most people weren't aware of before so if another CYL-like poll were to occur again I suspect Valentian characters would be ranked much higher now along with others like Reinhardt.

To further back up this claim, Reinhardt was ranked 584th & Genny was ranked 586th. Pretty sure it's outdate at this point & having a 2nd CYL poll would be beneficial for a more accurate popularity contest.

5 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Popularity is largely irrelevant when it comes to Marth though. He is the (old) mascot. He is Fire Emblem. They said it best in that you can't have a crossover without Marth.

Would you say the same thing about Warrior of Light from FF1?

5 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Isn't that just the nature of this community?

If I'm going to be 100% frank, I just flat out hate the video game community in general. Far too vocal about the petty thing in games. There's no such thing as a "Console War", no one's that childish but you wouldn't know from the community. The concept of liking more than one thing is far too much for them to comprehend.

 

However, back in September I found out a lot of things that the Fire Emblem piss me off to no ends.

[Arthur97]

Just now, Zangetsu said:

Would you say the same thing about Warrior of Light from FF1?

I'm not strong on my FF, but there is a key difference: Marth has a name. He's more important to Fire Emblem than No Name is to FF.