Anyone else super bummed that Warriors doesn't have anyone from FE9 and 10?

[Zangetsu]

5 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I'm not strong on my FF, but there is a key difference: Marth has a name. He's more important to Fire Emblem than No Name is to FF.

You know what, I'm pretty sure we're agreeing with each other here then, but it's not that hard to believe Marth still is a popular character.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Zangetsu

[DIO]

1 minute ago, Zangetsu said:

You know what, I'm pretty sure we're agreeing with each other here then, but it's not that hard to believe Marth isn't still a popular character.

Forgive my butting in, but that's really not all that relevant; Marth was the introduction to Fire Emblem for nearly everyone outside the west thanks to Melee. Even if he wasn't in the first proper game released overseas, a lot of people still associate the series with him.

[guedesbrawl]

4 minutes ago, DIO said:

I think the bulk of it was simply that Shadow Dragon had almost nothing in comparison; a self-same Pegasus knight, the only dragonstone user, and Marth. I'll admit I'm not so familiar with SD and it's follow-up, but I think they could've at least included an armor user and say, Camus. I do ultimately understand they wanted to make JUST a Fates-themed warriors game, and if they'd done so that would've been fine...ish, so long as they included characters beyond the royal family and their retainers. Hell, even having Garon, Sumeragi, Mikoto, and Arete as playable options (or at least as enemies) would've been an interesting notion for Fates Warriors.

 

Despite how fun the game is (nearing about ninty hours thus far; not bad between the likes of BoTW, Odyssey, and Xenoblade 2), there's a startling lack of play-styles outside of the sword types. We now have three distinct spear sets, but still none of them that are 'armor' type a la knights and generals. I'm fairly confident that Awakening will add a new sword type for Oliva as well as a magic type for Tharja, but by that point its too little too late. If they wanted to go with clones sets, they could've gone for broke and added a lot more characters to at least balance things out. I dunno; part of me does want to see a FE:W 2 if only to see what they'd add (fingers crossed for more magic types, hidden weapons, dragon-users, and featured games).

It's less that they wanted to focus on Fates and more like SD really didn't matter as much as the other two games. It's basically only there because Marth is popular and he comes from the very first game in the series.

There's not that many movesets but this is a starting warriors. One Piece for comparison got only 13 base movesets which are also 13 base characters. Sure, Hyrule Warriors exist, but it exists in a different contest where it was from a much bigger (and more flexible) franchise than FE, and was a Wii U game. The Switch had basically one big game a month and I'm sure this aggressive 1st year strategy led to no-negotiable deadlines, unlike with the Wii U. And it shows with how a lot of the game's content has glaring holes such as the missing personal weapons (Look at the no-scroll timerifts in the first two maps, only Lissa doesn't have a map that could've easily been about her scroll) and the NPC 4 that became DLC despite stuff like datamined supports and profiles detailing moveset elements that enemies don't use (Oboro's whirlwind).

I also feel like people REALLY underestimate the work put into clones. Their fanciest moves are unique. Each clone is 2 new models besides Elise (who kind just gets stuff on her shoulders and that's it lol), and Warriors is fully voiced, from battle banter to character-exclusive supports. 8 clones is a fair bit for the game they had to design their systems from the ground-up.

 

[Zangetsu]

Just now, DIO said:

Forgive my butting in, but that's really not all that relevant; Marth was the introduction to Fire Emblem for nearly everyone outside the west thanks to Melee. Even if he wasn't in the first proper game released overseas, a lot of people still associate the series with him.

I would argue Roy, but that would just be arguing for the sake of arguing. I would argue Marth was the clone of Roy though since he doesn't have the Shield of Seals/Fire Emblem.

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

I would argue Roy, but that would just be arguing for the sake of arguing. I would argue Marth was the clone of Roy though since he doesn't have the Shield of Seals/Fire Emblem.

No. Marth is unlocked first. No way you can unlock Roy before him, from my understanding. Roy is the clone considering Marth is one of the ? slots you can see in the initial roster, while Roy's slot only appears once he's unlocked. Which is true for every other original-clone pair (when not being an initial character).

---

Anyway, for the question itself... not really. By itself, I don't really care. But for the general picture, I'm probably used to it. I mean, I'm still waiting for Samurai Warriors to turn Mouri Terumoto into a PC... and that still hasn't happened despite being around 10 games already.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[Arthur97]

8 minutes ago, DIO said:

Forgive my butting in, but that's really not all that relevant; Marth was the introduction to Fire Emblem for nearly everyone outside the west thanks to Melee. Even if he wasn't in the first proper game released overseas, a lot of people still associate the series with him.

I think you mean outside of Japan, but, yes.

6 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

I would argue Roy, but that would just be arguing for the sake of arguing. I would argue Marth was the clone of Roy though since he doesn't have the Shield of Seals/Fire Emblem.

Pretty sure Roy was the clone. Also, I believe the clone was originally going to be Leif. Imagine if that had happened and Roy was the obscure one.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Arthur97

[DIO]

1 minute ago, guedesbrawl said:

It's less that they wanted to focus on Fates and more like SD really didn't matter as much as the other two games. It's basically only there because Marth is popular and he comes from the very first game in the series.

There's not that many movesets but this is a starting warriors. One Piece for comparison got only 13 base movesets which are also 13 base characters. Sure, Hyrule Warriors exist, but it exists in a different contest where it was from a much bigger (and more flexible) franchise than FE, and was a Wii U game. The Switch had basically one big game a month and I'm sure this aggressive 1st year strategy led to no-negotiable deadlines, unlike with the Wii U. And it shows with how a lot of the game's content has glaring holes such as the missing personal weapons (Look at the no-scroll timerifts in the first two maps, only Lissa doesn't have a map that could've easily been about her scroll) and the NPC 4 that became DLC despite stuff like datamined supports and profiles detailing moveset elements that enemies don't use (Oboro's whirlwind).

I also feel like people REALLY underestimate the work put into clones. Their fanciest moves are unique. Each clone is 2 new models besides Elise (who kind just gets stuff on her shoulders and that's it lol), and Warriors is fully voiced, from battle banter to character-exclusive supports. 8 clones is a fair bit for the game they had to design their systems from the ground-up.

 

You're not wrong, but with how many times they ended up shooting themselves in the foot regarding the marketing for this game, I think it's fair to say that SD had almost no thought put into it compared to Awakening and Fates. We could argue the reasons why until we're all blue in the face; it doesn't really change what happened. I pretty much agree with everything in else and just want to add that personal weapons should've been a free patch (or at least not hide the likes of Tiki's 'personal' weapon on her amiboo)

 

[shadowofchaos]

36 minutes ago, guedesbrawl said:

Were there any particular characters from the actual focus games that got a bit of fan backlash in japan simply because they aren't in the game at all, even DLC?

Camus seem to have been the biggest thing the people unhappy with Sd's repping pounce on here in the West. I'm wondering because, if the Japanese feel the same, a potential SoV DLC pack might have Zeke instead of another Cav that did more in SoV iitself...

Camus comes to mind. I remember a comments on the air of this?

Quote

カミュがいない！Σ(ﾟДﾟ)

Most of the complaints are akin to "Bleh, it's Fates and Awakening" rather than characters they want. I mean people that actually named characters they want are the outlier. Most of the comments I see aren't focused on what they want, it's rather them saying they're disappointed in what the design was. That they prefer something else to what they got.

Now if you want actual wishlists instead of just comments, the Japanese had a hashtag on twitter.

#fe無双参戦希望キャラ

Edited January 4, 2018 by shadowofchaos

[Arthur97]

12 minutes ago, DIO said:

You're not wrong, but with how many times they ended up shooting themselves in the foot regarding the marketing for this game, I think it's fair to say that SD had almost no thought put into it compared to Awakening and Fates. We could argue the reasons why until we're all blue in the face; it doesn't really change what happened. I pretty much agree with everything in else and just want to add that personal weapons should've been a free patch (or at least not hide the likes of Tiki's 'personal' weapon on her amiboo)

Doesn't Tiki have another unique weapon in the data? I thought her amiibo weapon was just a bonus weapon like Chrom's (which I wish anyone could use for the sake of letting them use a sword that looks like Falchion even if the hilt is silver). Still, considering most of those characters never had unique weapons (the fact Cordelia is getting a Jugdral weapon is still odd; why not Gradivus instead?), I think it's fair (Caeda should have come with one though). Especially since it will render regular weapons completely obsolete except for skill grinding and forging.

[Florete]

34 minutes ago, guedesbrawl said:

It's less that they wanted to focus on Fates and more like SD really didn't matter as much as the other two games. It's basically only there because Marth is popular and he comes from the very first game in the series.

Honestly, I don't think Marth's popularity has anything to do with it, I think IS just didn't want to see a spin-off crossover without their OG.

[NSSKG151]

2 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Doesn't Tiki have another unique weapon in the data?

Divinestone is the name of her prf weapon which hasn't been released yet. Tiki's Tear is the weapon you get from her amiibo.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Absolutely bummed about it. Path of Radiance was my introduction to the series and I still consider it to be the best and most memorable FE.

[Lau]

10 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

I would argue Roy, but that would just be arguing for the sake of arguing. I would argue Marth was the clone of Roy though since he doesn't have the Shield of Seals/Fire Emblem.

I'm sorry, what? How can you even say this?

Sakurai planned to have Marth appear in the original Smash for the 64, but didn't have the technology and the time to implement him. This was revealled earlier last year, and even Did you Know Gaming covered it. Sakurai put Roy in because he wanted to have two FE reps, so he went to IS and was shown Roy's concept design because Binding Blade wasn't even out yet. That's why Smash!Roy is so different from FE!Roy, Sakurai only knew his name and design.

[Anacybele]

Those arguing about PoR Ike vs RD Ike, can't we just have both? Make Ike be able to use both models/costumes. And his Lord outfit from PoR and Vanguard outfit in RD as separate promotional looks for both.

If only one had to be used though, I'd be leaning towards RD due to his Amiibo using that design and it technically being his most recent look (Awakening DLC doesn't count, it's just DLC and noncanon and also just awful). Also, it makes him stand out a bit more. PoR Ike is closer to the typical bishy-looking dude while RD Ike is a buff manly man, not something we see much in FE among main lord characters. RD Ike also fits his slowish heavy-hitting style best. Even Sakurai said this when he explained the choice to use RD Ike in Smash Wii U/3DS.

I think people might generally prefer RD Ike's design too, and only prefer PoR Ike on the writing front. But that's pretty arguable and Koei could end up writing an RD Ike pretty well if they wanted.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Anacybele

[guedesbrawl]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Those arguing about PoR Ike vs RD Ike, can't we just have both? Make Ike be able to use both models/costumes. And his Lord outfit from PoR and Vanguard outfit in RD as separate promotional looks for both.

If only one had to be used though, I'd be leaning towards RD due to his Amiibo using that design and it technically being his most recent look (Awakening DLC doesn't count, it's just DLC and noncanon and also just awful). Also, it makes him stand out a bit more. PoR Ike is closer to the typical bishy-looking dude while RD Ike is a buff manly man, not something we see much in FE among main lord characters. RD Ike also fits his slowish heavy-hitting style best. Even Sakurai said this when he explained the choice to use RD Ike in Smash Wii U/3DS.

I think people might generally prefer RD Ike's design too, and only prefer PoR Ike on the writing front. But that's pretty arguable and Koei could end up writing an RD Ike pretty well if they wanted.

It's less about the costume and more about the whole package that comes with it: the playable characters the game would cover and the story arc influences and the unplayable villains if any.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, guedesbrawl said:

It's less about the costume and more about the whole package that comes with it: the playable characters the game would cover and the story arc influences and the unplayable villains if any.

Ah, I see. I guess that makes sense.

[Zangetsu]

17 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

No. Marth is unlocked first. No way you can unlock Roy before him, from my understanding. Roy is the clone considering Marth is one of the ? slots you can see in the initial roster, while Roy's slot only appears once he's unlocked. Which is true for every other original-clone pair (when not being an initial character).

 

17 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

I think you mean outside of Japan, but, yes.

Pretty sure Roy was the clone. Also, I believe the clone was originally going to be Leif. Imagine if that had happened and Roy was the obscure one.

 

6 hours ago, Lau said:

I'm sorry, what? How can you even say this?

Sakurai planned to have Marth appear in the original Smash for the 64, but didn't have the technology and the time to implement him. This was revealled earlier last year, and even Did you Know Gaming covered it. Sakurai put Roy in because he wanted to have two FE reps, so he went to IS and was shown Roy's concept design because Binding Blade wasn't even out yet. That's why Smash!Roy is so different from FE!Roy, Sakurai only knew his name and design.

Mostly because a former friend of mine (he was an asshole), wouldn't shut up how mis-represented Marth is & how he didn't have his Shield Of Seals. Hence why I believe it was the vice versa.

 

--

Back on topic, did Ike grew taller between the Tellius Series?

[Lau]

2 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

 

 

Mostly because a former friend of mine (he was an asshole), wouldn't shut up how mis-represented Marth is & how he didn't have his Shield Of Seals. Hence why I believe it was the vice versa.

 

--

Back on topic, did Ike grew taller between the Tellius Series?

I believe your friend may have been referring to the Fire Emblem itself, which Marth does use in his games to open chests.

 

I think Ike grew taller, he was only 17 in PoR, so some growth is expected.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Eh, I'd still have been disappointed because Brom likely wouldn't have gotten in.

I got Lyn though and I'm SUPER happy she got in over someone like Ike, I'm kind of tired of him. It's about time a different non-Marth pre-3DS character got the spotlight.

[Lau]

15 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Eh, I'd still have been disappointed because Brom likely wouldn't have gotten in.

I got Lyn though and I'm SUPER happy she got in over someone like Ike, I'm kind of tired of him. It's about time a different non-Marth pre-3DS character got the spotlight.

You're in luck then with Lyn. I'd say she's getting a lot of spotlight lately, shoehorned in in Warriors, and two alts in Heroes.

In comparison, Marth doesn't have any alts in Heroes, and whilst he does appear in TMS, that's right at the end and it's not actually him.

So really, Marth gets very little spotlight in recent years.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

17 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Pretty sure Roy was the clone. Also, I believe the clone was originally going to be Leif. Imagine if that had happened and Roy was the obscure one.

Leif was never planned for Smash. There also used to be this big rumor that Sigurd was planned for 64 alongside Marth, but Sakurai has only ever mentioned wanting to add Marth in the original game. The clone was always going to be the protagonist of FE6 in order to promote it. But FE6 kept changing to the point where Melee's game files refer to Roy as "EMBLEM" rather than his finalized name.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

17 minutes ago, Lau said:

You're in luck then with Lyn. I'd say she's getting a lot of spotlight lately, shoehorned in in Warriors, and two alts in Heroes.

In comparison, Marth doesn't have any alts in Heroes, and whilst he does appear in TMS, that's right at the end and it's not actually him.

So really, Marth gets very little spotlight in recent years.

Lyn being in Warriors and getting alts in Heroes is the only spotlight she's really gotten since 2003.

Marth and Ike both got sequels, Smash Bros., that one Steam World game, Marth got a whole dang cast of descendants and CONSTANT references to him in Awakening, Ike got Priam...

Just let Lyn have it for once.

[Lau]

7 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Lyn being in Warriors and getting alts in Heroes is the only spotlight she's really gotten since 2003.

Marth and Ike both got sequels, Smash Bros., that one Steam World game, Marth got a whole dang cast of descendants and CONSTANT references to him in Awakening, Ike got Priam...

Just let Lyn have it for once.

Marth was put in Smash due to being the first lord, and has remained in every Smash since Melee. Ike was put in due to being the newest lord when Brawl came out. Lyn at least got to be an assist trophy, which is better than say Eliwood, the actual main lord of Blazing Blade, or even a non-sword user like Hector or Ephraim.

Awakening was meant to be the last game in the series, why wouldn't you put references to the original lord? Other games had references too, the second gen from Jugdral, Robin is said to be very similar to Mark...Ike got Priam due to fanservice, and it can be argued that Priam isn't even canon due to being a SpotPass unit.

Marth and Ike's appearances in STEAM are only due to the Smash amiibo.

Please note that I did say recent years, and Marth has gotten very little.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

2 minutes ago, Lau said:

Marth was put in Smash due to being the first lord, and has remained in every Smash since Melee. Ike was put in due to being the newest lord when Brawl came out. Lyn at least got to be an assist trophy, which is better than say Eliwood, the actual main lord of Blazing Blade, or even a non-sword user like Hector or Ephraim.

Awakening was meant to be the last game in the series, why wouldn't you put references to the original lord? Other games had references too, the second gen from Jugdral, Robin is said to be very similar to Mark...Ike got Priam due to fanservice, and it can be argued that Priam isn't even canon due to being a SpotPass unit.

Marth and Ike's appearances in STEAM are only due to the Smash amiibo.

Please note that I did say recent years, and Marth has gotten very little.

False, Micaiah was the most recent lord prior to Brawl. And still not a reason other characters couldn't have been added. Lyn (and Chrom) were the most requested FE characters for Wii U/3DS DLC by Nintendo's own data.

"Actual main lord." It's funny because IS pretty obviously considers Lyn the Blazing Blade protagonist lol.

Again, lol. The point still stands. Marth and Ike got descendants, even Alm and Celica did, but everyone else got...what? The most miniscule of even a mention? Yup, that's right.

"Priam not canon." I'm all out of lols to give.

"Only because amiibo!" Oh look Ike isn't in Warriors yet he has amiibo...

The points all still stand...just let Lyn have it for once.

[Zangetsu]

1 hour ago, Lau said:

I believe your friend may have been referring to the Fire Emblem itself, which Marth does use in his games to open chests.

 

I think Ike grew taller, he was only 17 in PoR, so some growth is expected.

I know you don't exactly know the context & I'm not trying to sound rude, but don't call him "my friend". I said "former" for a reason.

 

Also thanks for answering the Ike's question. I guess it would have to be a different model for Ike then.
 

19 minutes ago, Lau said:

Marth was put in Smash due to being the first lord, and has remained in every Smash since Melee. Ike was put in due to being the newest lord when Brawl came out. Lyn at least got to be an assist trophy, which is better than say Eliwood, the actual main lord of Blazing Blade, or even a non-sword user like Hector or Ephraim.

Awakening was meant to be the last game in the series, why wouldn't you put references to the original lord? Other games had references too, the second gen from Jugdral, Robin is said to be very similar to Mark...Ike got Priam due to fanservice, and it can be argued that Priam isn't even canon due to being a SpotPass unit.

Marth and Ike's appearances in STEAM are only due to the Smash amiibo.

Please note that I did say recent years, and Marth has gotten very little.

I'm sorry, but this whole hating Lyn getting the spotlight is just unfair. Marth & Ike has been far more games than Lyn & you could argue that being Smash Bros is the pinnacle of honor any Nintendo character can have. Suddenly when Lyn make her 1st playable debut on a console over a decade this is supposed to be a bad thing?

Edited January 4, 2018 by Zangetsu