Anyone else super bummed that Warriors doesn't have anyone from FE9 and 10?

[HK Motendra]

Y'all,

I don't believe @Lau 's initial point was to discredit Lyn's recent promotions; only pointing out that Marth, despite being Mr FE himself, hasn't had the same treatment as other popular characters almost as if he isn't (at least it's apparent via Heroes, anyway. Since the game's launch, he's only ever been in one summoning banner). 

Let's not be up in arms over a simple observation

-------------------

As for the topic, not really. That's been over and done with and didn't need a revival with the game 2 & 1/2 months in.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Motendra

[Zangetsu]

What, suddenly Marth is moot because he hasn't been in any banners? How come that logic doesn't apply Roy?

 

If Marth has a "Groom" & "Spring Time" variation, suddenly he gets his due compare to Emphraim & Eirika? Hector doesn't get any special treatment either, but Marth still been in more games than the most of lords & cast in general.

[Ertrick36]

1 hour ago, Lau said:

In comparison, Marth doesn't have any alts in Heroes...

It never actually occurred to me that Marth never got much attention in Heroes.  The lady who impersonates him gets more attention than the man behind the legend himself.

I don't know what to say...  And I think it's better off that way, because I'm sure anything I might say would piss off one side of the fandom or another.

 

When I think about it, I probably would've preferred Hector's hard-hitting fighting style a bit more than Lissa's skipping-and-swinging style.  Or Ike's heavy down thrusts over... probably a few of the swordie movesets.  Aside from Frederick and maybe Camilla, there aren't really any heavy characters in the roster.  Heaviest lancer is probably Oboro only because of her defense and the fact that she's neither riding a flying pony nor is a dancer, and heaviest sword user... probably is either Chrom/Lucina or Xander.  Magic also feels very light, and I would hope Tharja could bring some weight to it, being a dark mage and all, though the sorcerers in the game obviously use Robin's moves so that's up in the air.  And with bows, I guess Anna feels heavier just because she brings in the Fates ballistae and coin bombs into her Musou specials.

Speaking of, would any of you believe me when I say I actually beat the first Anna map I got access to with just a team of level 40's?

Spoiler

... an endeavor which costed me about 900,000 gold because everyone but Cordelia and the non-playable allies died.

I'm not a smart man.

Props to NPC Lissa though for surviving the onslaught of Anna's and shadow Robins at the allied base.  Fucking MVP, right there.  I really ought to use you more.

 

[Arthur97]

2 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Lyn being in Warriors and getting alts in Heroes is the only spotlight she's really gotten since 2003.

Marth and Ike both got sequels, Smash Bros., that one Steam World game, Marth got a whole dang cast of descendants and CONSTANT references to him in Awakening, Ike got Priam...

Just let Lyn have it for once.

Don't worry, she'll probably be rubbed in our noses for years to come.

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

False, Micaiah was the most recent lord prior to Brawl. And still not a reason other characters couldn't have been added. Lyn (and Chrom) were the most requested FE characters for Wii U/3DS DLC by Nintendo's own data.

"Actual main lord." It's funny because IS pretty obviously considers Lyn the Blazing Blade protagonist lol.

Again, lol. The point still stands. Marth and Ike got descendants, even Alm and Celica did, but everyone else got...what? The most miniscule of even a mention? Yup, that's right.

"Priam not canon." I'm all out of lols to give.

"Only because amiibo!" Oh look Ike isn't in Warriors yet he has amiibo...

The points all still stand...just let Lyn have it for once.

Chrom's absence in Smash was actually explained for whatever it's worth.

Alm and Celica got descendants? If you're referring to Walhart, pretty sure that's more speculation than canon. Also, several of the past games happened on different continents, maybe even different worlds, why would their descendants be there? Sure one might be believable (Priam), but to have them all move to those two continents?

Lyn being the protagonist of Blazing Blade makes absolutely zero sense seeing as she does almost nothing in the main game. Also, Eliwood is listed before her for the Blazing Blade characters in Heroes' catalog which is consistent with others like Marth, Ike, and Chrom.

The Amiibo argument also really only applies to bonus content like in STEAM and Fates. It has no bearing on main content.

Also, could you stop saying "lol?" I don't think it's helping your case.

[HK Motendra]

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

What, suddenly Marth is moot because he hasn't been in any banners? How come that logic doesn't apply Roy?

 

If Marth has a "Groom" & "Spring Time" variation, suddenly he gets his due compare to Emphraim & Eirika? Hector doesn't get any special treatment either, but Marth still been in more games than the most of lords & cast in general.

Have you forgotten that Brave Roy exists? That, and I believe he was part of a GHB Banner as well, though I forget which one specifically EDIT. So apparently I was mistaken for a BHB, but it still applies, along with the CYL Gauntlet that he has under his belt.

Hector's credibility as a unit speaks for himself that there is fan demand for him, to be included in Hero Fest Banners, the original Legendary Hero event, along with a Tempest Trial themed after him.

I don't have any strong feelings either way despite him being a favorite of mine, but you would think that Marth would at least get something. Its still an oddity oddity.

57 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

The lady who impersonates him gets more attention than the man behind the legend himself.

And then there's this that's been in the back of my mind for a long time. But that's a different can of worms for another day.

57 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

When I think about it, I probably would've preferred Hector's hard-hitting fighting style a bit more than Lissa's skipping-and-swinging style.  Or Ike's heavy down thrusts over... probably a few of the swordie movesets.  Aside from Frederick and maybe Camilla, there aren't really any heavy characters in the roster. 

This could have easily been solved if The Vaikening got his chance. Or, you know... *points at avi & sig* But apparently, I'm the only one who likes them :/

Edited January 5, 2018 by Motendra

[Zangetsu]

1 hour ago, Motendra said:

Have you forgotten that Brave Roy exists? That, and I believe he was part of a GHB Banner as well, though I forget which one specifically

I don't have any strong feelings either way despite him being my first lord, but you would think that Marth would at least get something. Its just a mere oddity.

Yea, I'm aware, but are we just going to assume the Hero King isn't relevant any more because he's not in the banners? Weird, yes but at least he can still fall back in all the other games he's been over the years.

 

1 hour ago, Motendra said:

This could have easily been solved if The Vaikening got his chance. Or, you know... *points at avi & sig* But apparently, I'm the only one who likes them :/

For the record, I like them a lot too & rather have them being prioritize over Lon'Qu & such. I really do like the bromance between Vaike & Chrom.

Although I would be lying if I didn't say I rather have Hector over them. :/

Then again I rather have Hector 1st console debut being Smash Bros, but I'm just being selfish at that point.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Zangetsu

[Fire Emblem Fan]

11 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Chrom's absence in Smash was actually explained for whatever it's worth.

Alm and Celica got descendants? If you're referring to Walhart, pretty sure that's more speculation than canon. Also, several of the past games happened on different continents, maybe even different worlds, why would their descendants be there? Sure one might be believable (Priam), but to have them all move to those two continents?

Lyn being the protagonist of Blazing Blade makes absolutely zero sense seeing as she does almost nothing in the main game. Also, Eliwood is listed before her for the Blazing Blade characters in Heroes' catalog which is consistent with others like Marth, Ike, and Chrom.

The Amiibo argument also really only applies to bonus content like in STEAM and Fates. It has no bearing on main content.

Also, could you stop saying "lol?" I don't think it's helping your case.

That's why I said "DLC." When they were taking DLC suggestions, they showed Chrom and Lyn as the most requested FE characters. 

I was referring to the continent itself more than anything, Awakening isn't shy about making sure you know it's stemmed from Alm and Celica. 

I'm not the one who brought up amiibo. If you're going to use the amiibo argument, you can't pick and choose where it applies. Ike has an amiibo and amiibo content, Lyn does not, simple as that, it only further supports Ike getting tons of attention and Lyn only just starting to get some.

L. O. L.

2 hours ago, Motendra said:

Y'all,

I don't believe @Lau 's initial point was to discredit Lyn's recent promotions; only pointing out that Marth, despite being Mr FE himself, hasn't had the same treatment as other popular characters almost as if he isn't (at least it's apparent via Heroes, anyway. Since the game's launch, he's only ever been in one summoning banner). 

Let's not be up in arms over a simple observation

-------------------

As for the topic, not really. That's been over and done with and didn't need a revival with the game 2 & 1/2 months in.

I generally wouldn't be up in arms and usually try not to be, but...

20 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Don't worry, she'll probably be rubbed in our noses for years to come.

...this. This stuff right here. It isn't just one person, it's TONS. You can't go into this forum without the legion of Ike fans crying "Lyn is in but Ike isn't IS shoving Lyn at us!"

Just shush and get over it already. It is a FACT that Ike has gotten a ton of attention over the last decade and Lyn is only just starting to. Just let Lyn and her fans have it for once, you can survive one spin-off without your precious Ike. You got Smash Bros. You got an amiibo. You got STEAM, and Priam, and what-have-you, so just lay off a little and let everyone else enjoy the forums without your constant "why is Lyn in but not Ike" speak, please?

[Florete]

1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

It never actually occurred to me that Marth never got much attention in Heroes.  The lady who impersonates him gets more attention than the man behind the legend himself.

That's to be expected given Lucina's insane popularity and coming from Awakening. What's funny is that Marth's love interest has gotten more attention than him.

[Zangetsu]

57 minutes ago, Florete said:

That's to be expected given Lucina's insane popularity and coming from Awakening. What's funny is that Marth's love interest has gotten more attention than him.

She's actually one variant away from being tied with Lyn that matter.

I feel like it's inevitable for her to have her Wing Spear for Heroes.

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Just shush and get over it already. It is a FACT that Ike has gotten a ton of attention over the last decade and Lyn is only just starting to. Just let Lyn and her fans have it for once, you can survive one spin-off without your precious Ike. You got Smash Bros. You got an amiibo. You got STEAM, and Priam, and what-have-you, so just lay off a little and let everyone else enjoy the forums without your constant "why is Lyn in but not Ike" speak, please?

I think very damn unfair for Lyn to be compare to begin with. If this was Hector would the complaint be just as the same? What about Seliph & Lief, do they get a free pass because they're from the Genealogy Wars?

Edited January 5, 2018 by Zangetsu

[Florete]

14 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

I think very damn unfair for Lyn to be compare to begin with. If this was Hector would the complaint be just as the same? What about Seliph & Lief, do they get a free pass because they're the Genealogy War?

People are going to take issue with this, but I've seen it too much to not believe it: people only complain this way about female characters. Everyone was saying "why not Ike/Hector/Alm" when it came to Lyn and Celica, but few would be wondering where Lyn/Celica are if Ike and Alm were in instead.

In these cases, any female character someone isn't personally a fan of is "just a waifu." It's a really toxic part of internet culture and one reason why I refuse to use the word "waifu" except when criticizing it.

[Zangetsu]

15 minutes ago, Florete said:

People are going to take issue with this, but I've seen it too much to not believe it: people only complain this way about female characters. Everyone was saying "why not Ike/Hector/Alm" when it came to Lyn and Celica, but few would be wondering where Lyn/Celica are if Ike and Alm were in instead.

There I will be 1st to say that I would've complain about that even without the knowledge of Lyn & Celica being included. Although I would argue a lot more in Lyn's case than I would with Celica since I actually like Alm more. Not helping since Celica is a clone. Unless she's not anymore.

[Arthur97]

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

That's why I said "DLC." When they were taking DLC suggestions, they showed Chrom and Lyn as the most requested FE characters. 

I was referring to the continent itself more than anything, Awakening isn't shy about making sure you know it's stemmed from Alm and Celica. 

I'm not the one who brought up amiibo. If you're going to use the amiibo argument, you can't pick and choose where it applies. Ike has an amiibo and amiibo content, Lyn does not, simple as that, it only further supports Ike getting tons of attention and Lyn only just starting to get some.

L. O. L.

I generally wouldn't be up in arms and usually try not to be, but...

...this. This stuff right here. It isn't just one person, it's TONS. You can't go into this forum without the legion of Ike fans crying "Lyn is in but Ike isn't IS shoving Lyn at us!"

Just shush and get over it already. It is a FACT that Ike has gotten a ton of attention over the last decade and Lyn is only just starting to. Just let Lyn and her fans have it for once, you can survive one spin-off without your precious Ike. You got Smash Bros. You got an amiibo. You got STEAM, and Priam, and what-have-you, so just lay off a little and let everyone else enjoy the forums without your constant "why is Lyn in but not Ike" speak, please?

I'm not even an Ike fan. He's alright.

Chill.

[Dark Holy Elf]

2 hours ago, Florete said:

People are going to take issue with this, but I've seen it too much to not believe it: people only complain this way about female characters. Everyone was saying "why not Ike/Hector/Alm" when it came to Lyn and Celica, but few would be wondering where Lyn/Celica are if Ike and Alm were in instead.

In these cases, any female character someone isn't personally a fan of is "just a waifu." It's a really toxic part of internet culture and one reason why I refuse to use the word "waifu" except when criticizing it.

I have to strongly agree with this. It's not so bad here but it often gets quite bad in spaces which are highly male-dominated.

And it's an awfully difficult thing to call people on because any one instance of complaining about a female character's inclusion can be for a merited reason, but take every instance together and a clear/unfortunate pattern emerges.

[HK Motendra]

2 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

I'm not even an Ike fan. He's alright.

Chill.

To be fair, your comment wasn't exactly the most most tactful. And given his exp with being happy of something that often seems to be chastised, I wouldn't blame him and even go so far as to say I've been there. Whether it was sarcastic or not, no one likes a killjoy.

[Lau]

I didn't mean to start a row, like @Motendra said, it was an observation that in recent years (as in the past two years or so), Lyn has been receiving more attention than Marth, especially in Heroes.

@Fire Emblem Fan No offense, but I find it quite hard to take you seriously when you 'lol' at whatever I say. Maybe cut it down a little? Cheers.

 

But anyways, lets get back on topic.

Tellius will definitely be a focus game in the next FE Warriors. It's clear to me that this one was just to test the waters, so they withheld the likes of Ike and Roy.

[Ertrick36]

Before I say anything else, I just want to be clear; I ultimately don't feel strongly one way or the other in regards to characters like Lyn or Lucina getting a lot of attention over popular male characters like Ike.  I will admit that I like Ike and Hector more than Lyn at least, but I'm not distraught or particularly defensive.  In the end, I have my own favorite characters, and a good lot of them don't get much attention.  I'm lucky that Oboro even got as much attention as she did.

4 hours ago, Florete said:

That's to be expected given Lucina's insane popularity and coming from Awakening. What's funny is that Marth's love interest has gotten more attention than him.

Of course; it's just an interesting observation.  If nothing else, at least ladies get a good amount of attention in this series, for better or worse.  As someone who generally prefers stories from a female perspective, I won't complain at least about Lucina being this popular.  I haven't explored Lyn's character much besides her entire tutorial segment and one of her C level supports, so I don't have much of an opinion on her.

Caeda seems to have some spunk, at least in the DS remakes.  And certain... supplementary fan works have definitely shaped some folks' perspectives on her.  I particularly like the works that make her call Marth "Marthipan".  I also like to imagine that Catria tries to make some cute little pet name for Marth in her head, but all her ideas are extremely contrived, mawkish, and/or sappy.

5 hours ago, Motendra said:

This could have easily been solved if The Vaikening got his chance. Or, you know... *points at avi & sig* But apparently, I'm the only one who likes them :/

Well, I mean...  I like her well enough.  She may be, as Jakob said, "the Fire Tribe's frostiest daughter", but she has some moments I like.  Including her interactions with Oboro - how she learns of this great new way of eating food, and tries to invite Oboro to partake in the Fire Tribe's way of eating.  And her "frostiness" does make it sweeter when she warms up to some characters.

And I think she gets a bit more flak as a unit than is due.  Really.  Though then again, I'm the kind of guy that hates tier lists so much that unless I like the characters a lot, I'll go against the grain and use the lowest tier units unless they actually are objectively terrible (like Revelation Gunter, who... can't even get it up, so to speak).  Just to prove that they can be useful still and to spite the folks who might suggest otherwise.  In any event, I don't think she's a bad unit... which is one of the few strong opinions I actually have for Fates itself.

[Fabulously Olivier]

13 hours ago, Florete said:

People are going to take issue with this, but I've seen it too much to not believe it: people only complain this way about female characters. Everyone was saying "why not Ike/Hector/Alm" when it came to Lyn and Celica, but few would be wondering where Lyn/Celica are if Ike and Alm were in instead.

In these cases, any female character someone isn't personally a fan of is "just a waifu." It's a really toxic part of internet culture and one reason why I refuse to use the word "waifu" except when criticizing it.

Well, I mean Ike is the most popular character in the franchise. "Why not Ike" is a valid question.

For the record, if I had to pick two of the above characters to be unlockables, it would have been Ike and Lyn. I think that fair. Both are more important and popular than Celica, for damn sure.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Etheus

[Etrurian emperor]

On 4-1-2018 at 3:59 PM, Anacybele said:

Those arguing about PoR Ike vs RD Ike, can't we just have both? Make Ike be able to use both models/costumes. And his Lord outfit from PoR and Vanguard outfit in RD as separate promotional looks for both.

If only one had to be used though, I'd be leaning towards RD due to his Amiibo using that design and it technically being his most recent look (Awakening DLC doesn't count, it's just DLC and noncanon and also just awful). Also, it makes him stand out a bit more. PoR Ike is closer to the typical bishy-looking dude while RD Ike is a buff manly man, not something we see much in FE among main lord characters. RD Ike also fits his slowish heavy-hitting style best. Even Sakurai said this when he explained the choice to use RD Ike in Smash Wii U/3DS.

I think people might generally prefer RD Ike's design too, and only prefer PoR Ike on the writing front. But that's pretty arguable and Koei could end up writing an RD Ike pretty well if they wanted.

I don't think having them as merely separate costumes would work very well because the two Ikes are very different in stats. Por Ike is all about speed while RD Ike can only be a powerhouse with all those big muscles. 

Brawl had Por Ike as a heavy character and it felt weird since he always dodge tanked so well and made all those fast looking moves in POR. 

[Anacybele]

11 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think having them as merely separate costumes would work very well because the two Ikes are very different in stats. Por Ike is all about speed while RD Ike can only be a powerhouse with all those big muscles. 

Brawl had Por Ike as a heavy character and it felt weird since he always dodge tanked so well and made all those fast looking moves in POR. 

Didn't stop them from making PoR Ike a slow heavy hitter in Brawl. Though I do agree that makes more sense for RD Ike. And we already have fast sword wielders in FE Warriors anyway, so there's another point in RD Ike's favor.

EDIT: @Fire Emblem Fan Dude, knock it off. I admit, I never liked Arthur97's attitude on some things, but I'm not liking yours here either. Nobody was ever saying Lyn couldn't be in FE Warriors, and those Ike fans wondering why she's in and not him are asking why Ike could make all those non-FE appearances, and playable no less, but not show up at all in a big crossover spin-off from his OWN series. Not "why is Ike not in over Lyn?" This really makes zero sense. I'm not even a Lyn fan at all, but I still say both of them should've been in Warriors, not just one or the other. That way, the fans of both are happy, you know?

Edited January 5, 2018 by Anacybele

[Tuvy2]

On 12/31/2017 at 10:19 AM, Ertrick36 said:

Not disappointed, but I will say that I'm not at all a fan of them sequel-bating with Ike and some other popular characters.  Granted, at least they aren't doing the same with any Fates, Awakening, or SD characters, because that'd be beyond silly and stupid.

I don't think I can talk though because a few of my favorites made it in, and more favorites are on the way.  Though if he was in this game, I'd probably use Ike over Lucina, especially if he was as fun to use as he is in Smash.

The real shame is a lack of playable armors, imo.  I know that the armors in the most recent games aren't necessarily the most popular, and I don't often find myself struggling to survive against physical enemies (especially since I primarily use the two most defensive characters - Frederick and Oboro), but I'd really like to at least use armor knight allies to defend forts while I have someone else run around wrecking shit.

Armor knights and maybe also more shapeshifters.  And hidden weapon users, even if they're exclusively a Fates thing.  And more axes in general... maybe even axe generals!  Basically, I'm more concerned about the lack of class variety than I am with lacking representation across the series.  But even then...  I've honestly had tons more fun with this game than with Hyrule Warriors, so I can't say this game is really a bummer deal for me.

I agree with this especially since armrs are some of my favorite classes and characters.

[Florete]

3 hours ago, Etheus said:

Well, I mean Ike is the most popular character in the franchise.

This is not a definite fact.

[Fabulously Olivier]

12 minutes ago, Florete said:

This is not a definite fact.

Perhaps not, but by the only metrics we have, it would appear to be backed up as highly, highly likely.

 

Or are you going to argue against the popularity of the character who won the CYL poll and won the CYL voting gauntlet? He is a character so important and so recognizable that he was able to win the largest poll exclusive to FE fans AND win the following gauntlet, which was weighed down by outside casual players (and, let's be honest, is biased against male characters in general). I see no substantial argument against his self apparent popularity, which is measured in the only metrics we have to go on, and to claim otherwise is semantics at this point.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Etheus

[Florete]

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

Perhaps not, but by the only metrics we have, it would appear to be backed up as highly, highly likely.

 

Or are you going to argue against the popularity of the character who won the CYL poll and won the CYL voting gauntlet?

*Sigh* Not this again.

Ike did not "win" the CYL poll. If anyone did, it was Lyn. Yes, yes, "but if you add up both Ikes" but no. I take CYL more seriously than some do but even I know that's not an accurate measure at all.

And are you seriously arguing based on him winning the CYL voting gauntlet? Camilla was the runner-up, does that make her the 2nd most popular character in the series?

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, Florete said:

*Sigh* Not this again.

Ike did not "win" the CYL poll. If anyone did, it was Lyn. Yes, yes, "but if you add up both Ikes" but no. I take CYL more seriously than some do but even I know that's not an accurate measure at all.

And are you seriously arguing based on him winning the CYL voting gauntlet? Camilla was the runner-up, does that make her the 2nd most popular character in the series?

We can both agree on the female slot belonging to Lyn. Camila beat her based on the dreadful last minute multiplier mechanic.

That said, the same cannot be said for Ike's victory against Camilla. He decimated her constantly and thoroughly, with multipliers being the only thing keeping her in the running.

Also, both Ikes counting is a valid argument. They're both the same character. The only difference is artwork. If one version of Ike had not been in the poll, his votes wouldn't magically disappear; a majority of these would go to the other Ike.

[guedesbrawl]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think having them as merely separate costumes would work very well because the two Ikes are very different in stats. Por Ike is all about speed while RD Ike can only be a powerhouse with all those big muscles. 

Brawl had Por Ike as a heavy character and it felt weird since he always dodge tanked so well and made all those fast looking moves in POR. 

It's actually genius from Sakurai's part.

Ranger!Ike should not be able to carry Ragnel without SPD penalties due to his lacking STr for most of his life before promotion.