Florete Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Etheus said: Also, both Ikes counting is a valid argument. They're both the same character. The only difference is artwork. If one version of Ike had not been in the poll, his votes wouldn't magically disappear; a majority of these would go to the other Ike. You just admitted the problem right here. "A majority." Not all. A majority. PoR Ike would need ~91% of RD Ike's votes to surpass Lyn, but there's no accurate way to say how many votes a single Ike would have actually gotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Florete said: You just admitted the problem right here. "A majority." Not all. A majority. PoR Ike would need ~91% of RD Ike's votes to surpass Lyn, but there's no accurate way to say how many votes a single Ike would have actually gotten. Which he likely would have gotten. Ike fans are Ike fans. If Ike wears a fancy new hat, he isn't another character. He's Ike with a new hat. But this is pointless. The popularity of these two characters are very close by the only data we have, and they far surpass other characters who are represented. Lyn should be in. Ike should also be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Etheus said: Which he likely would have gotten. Ike fans are Ike fans. If Ike wears a fancy new hat, he isn't another character. He's Ike with a new hat. You haven't been around much if you think this is true. There's a sizable portion of fans who like one version but not the other (usually strongly preferring PoR Ike). This is indeed pointless, but I'm sick of people saying "Ike is the most popular character in the series" when we really can't say that for sure. If you're using CYL results, I'd argue Lyn takes that spot, but I think the poll is only accurate enough to use for general popularity and not specific placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Florete said: You haven't been around much if you think this is true. There's a sizable portion of fans who like one version but not the other (usually strongly preferring PoR Ike). This is indeed pointless, but I'm sick of people saying "Ike is the most popular character in the series" when we really can't say that for sure. If you're using CYL results, I'd argue Lyn takes that spot, but I think the poll is only accurate enough to use for general popularity and not specific placement. It's still a fair statement. We can safely say, at the least "Ike is one of, if not the, most popular characters in the series." It's semantics. The result is inherently that the Fire Emblem series cannot be adequately represented in a crossover without him. I would argue that the same would be true of Lyn or Marth. These are all iconic characters that effectively personify the series as much as Mario or Link do for their respective franchises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lau Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 7 hours ago, Anacybele said: EDIT: @Fire Emblem Fan Dude, knock it off. I admit, I never liked Arthur97's attitude on some things, but I'm not liking yours here either. Nobody was ever saying Lyn couldn't be in FE Warriors, and those Ike fans wondering why she's in and not him are asking why Ike could make all those non-FE appearances, and playable no less, but not show up at all in a big crossover spin-off from his OWN series. Not "why is Ike not in over Lyn?" This really makes zero sense. I'm not even a Lyn fan at all, but I still say both of them should've been in Warriors, not just one or the other. That way, the fans of both are happy, you know? Y'know, I actually agree with you, Ana. I'm not a fan of either Ike or Lyn, you know I'm not, but it would have made a lot of sense to have them both in the game. They came out on top for CYL, so why only have Lyn? I'm sure they could have spared some time and resources to implement Ike. Though I understand why they didn't, as Ike would have needed an entirely original moveset. I just feel like adding Ike would have prevented a majority of the backlash... And it begs the question...would going with just the lords have made the roster better? Yes, it would have still been mostly sword dominated, but wouldn't people be happier with every game getting represented? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 29 minutes ago, Lau said: Y'know, I actually agree with you, Ana. I'm not a fan of either Ike or Lyn, you know I'm not, but it would have made a lot of sense to have them both in the game. They came out on top for CYL, so why only have Lyn? I'm sure they could have spared some time and resources to implement Ike. Though I understand why they didn't, as Ike would have needed an entirely original moveset. I just feel like adding Ike would have prevented a majority of the backlash... And it begs the question...would going with just the lords have made the roster better? Yes, it would have still been mostly sword dominated, but wouldn't people be happier with every game getting represented? Yeah, it is possible that Lyn and Celica were late additions pushed by IS, but I still think IS should've also pushed Ike if they had to be pushing anyone, exactly. Well, we'd still have those who'd complain about too many swords, but you could be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CmdrQuartz Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I'd say eggs in a basket. You can't just throw all the most popular characters into one game because then you'll be at a loss for the next game if the first does well. That's why we have SOME popular characters and not ALL the popular characters. Considering the presence of clones I'm surprised people aren't glad he's not here because now when he shows up next game he might actually have a unique move set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Lau said: Y'know, I actually agree with you, Ana. I'm not a fan of either Ike or Lyn, you know I'm not, but it would have made a lot of sense to have them both in the game. They came out on top for CYL, so why only have Lyn? I'm sure they could have spared some time and resources to implement Ike. Though I understand why they didn't, as Ike would have needed an entirely original moveset. I just feel like adding Ike would have prevented a majority of the backlash... And it begs the question...would going with just the lords have made the roster better? Yes, it would have still been mostly sword dominated, but wouldn't people be happier with every game getting represented? CYL was most likely just a happy coincidence for Lyn, the roster was almost certainly finalized by that time. If they'd even been able to add Ike at that point, he likely would have had a cloned moveset (probably from Chrom/Lucina) and no history mode map. Lyn got in because of FE7 being the first FE in the west, Celica got in for SoV recency. Ike had no similar reason to get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lau Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Florete said: CYL was most likely just a happy coincidence for Lyn, the roster was almost certainly finalized by that time. If they'd even been able to add Ike at that point, he likely would have had a cloned moveset (probably from Chrom/Lucina) and no history mode map. Lyn got in because of FE7 being the first FE in the west, Celica got in for SoV recency. Ike had no similar reason to get in. Did they ever mention that being the reason behind Lyn's inclusion? If so, why Lyn? Why not Eliwood, or even Hector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Lau said: Did they ever mention that being the reason behind Lyn's inclusion? If so, why Lyn? Why not Eliwood, or even Hector? Most likely due to being the Tutorial Lord, she'd be the first one a first-time player would see. Hence, she was the introduction to FE itself for new players to the series. Yes, Eliwood is the main lord, but he's not the one introducing the player to the game. Most likely aiming for that angle. Edited January 5, 2018 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, Lau said: Did they ever mention that being the reason behind Lyn's inclusion? If so, why Lyn? Why not Eliwood, or even Hector? They did. Hayashi: Nintendo Direct being shown simultaneously worldwide is the big factor. Even so, the first Fire Emblem to be released overseas was GBA’s Blazing Blade, in which Lyn was one of the protagonists. So Lyn is to foreigners as Marth is to the Japanese (TN: In term of the most memorable Fire Emblem character). They don't mention Eliwood or Hector, but it's implied/most likely as Acacia Sgt said above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Florete said: If they'd even been able to add Ike at that point, he likely would have had a cloned moveset (probably from Chrom/Lucina) and no history mode map. I would be 100% okay with that. Just saying. Chrom's/Lucina's moveset is fluid, fun, and would fit Ike decently. A slower custom moveset would be better, but there is room for that in the sequel. Just as there is room to make Celica a unique spellsword instead of Diet Marth. Edited January 6, 2018 by Etheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guedesbrawl Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lau said: Y'know, I actually agree with you, Ana. I'm not a fan of either Ike or Lyn, you know I'm not, but it would have made a lot of sense to have them both in the game. They came out on top for CYL, so why only have Lyn? I'm sure they could have spared some time and resources to implement Ike. Though I understand why they didn't, as Ike would have needed an entirely original moveset. I just feel like adding Ike would have prevented a majority of the backlash... And it begs the question...would going with just the lords have made the roster better? Yes, it would have still been mostly sword dominated, but wouldn't people be happier with every game getting represented? Ike is there as a safety net for FEW2. It's him and his games that will be the biggest to push FEw2 forward if FEswitch happens to be as popular with the fanbase as Metroid Other M and Federation Force were for that series. "You can now play as Ike" is much bigger than "You can now play as Ike's friends!" Lyn, imo, doesn't have that same effect on Elibe because we still have Roy and Hector as pretty big hitters to help carry that focus game. IMO, the answer to the last questions is a no. We'd never get Fates and Awakening represented as strongly as they were here, and i'm dying to see that kind of thing happening with other branches of the series. Shadow Dragon was a bummer and i'd hate to see every part of FE being as lame as what we got from that from, but at least New Mystery makes the possibility of a second round for Marth's side of FE a possibility. Edited January 6, 2018 by guedesbrawl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 hours ago, CmdrQuartz said: I'd say eggs in a basket. You can't just throw all the most popular characters into one game because then you'll be at a loss for the next game if the first does well. That's why we have SOME popular characters and not ALL the popular characters. Considering the presence of clones I'm surprised people aren't glad he's not here because now when he shows up next game he might actually have a unique move set. This is something a lot seem to overlook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, guedesbrawl said: Ike is there as a safety net for FEW2. It's him and his games that will be the biggest to push FEw2 forward if FEswitch happens to be as popular with the fanbase as Metroid Other M and Federation Force were for that series. "You can now play as Ike" is much bigger than "You can now play as Ike's friends!" Lyn, imo, doesn't have that same effect on Elibe because we still have Roy and Hector as pretty big hitters to help carry that focus game. Dude, it's Ike, in two games or one game. There are a lot of fans that would buy both games for Ike if both had him. I would too, given that I'm a big fangirl of his. Because of this, I never agreed with the "safety net" argument. Edited January 6, 2018 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) Well, it doesn't make it any less or more true. Whatever the true may be. Personally, I do think there's merit of witholding stuff when making a series with more than one entry. The problem is when some things are held for too long... or not enough, for that matter. Edited January 6, 2018 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guedesbrawl Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Anacybele said: Dude, it's Ike, in two games or one game. There are a lot of fans that would buy both games for Ike if both had him. I would too, given that I'm a big fangirl of his. Because of this, I never agreed with the "safety net" argument. No matter what you think the impact is nowhere as great if it's the second time he's around. He's not news. You could always pop up FEw1 in this case and get your fill from one-god-armying with Ike there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 5 hours ago, guedesbrawl said: No matter what you think the impact is nowhere as great if it's the second time he's around. He's not news. You could always pop up FEw1 in this case and get your fill from one-god-armying with Ike there. Except Ike isn't in this game's story or anything. He would be for the sequel. And it's still Ike, his fans will buy the game regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 That doesn't really say much, to be honest. After all, how many of them would've bought the game regardless. How many would actually not buy the game even if Ike is in there. If Ike doesn't show up alone, how many would buy for Tellius in general. The actual amount of Ike fans in the first place. Popular he is, but his fanbase ain't exactly a majority now, are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guedesbrawl Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Anacybele said: Except Ike isn't in this game's story or anything. He would be for the sequel. And it's still Ike, his fans will buy the game regardless. Because Ike being involved in the story is so much more hype than playing as him. It's a bad idea no matter how you look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 hour ago, guedesbrawl said: Because Ike being involved in the story is so much more hype than playing as him. It's a bad idea no matter how you look at it. How the hell is it bad when we're talking about a super popular character? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 26 minutes ago, Anacybele said: How the hell is it bad when we're talking about a super popular character? Exactly. People will expect different things from a character because they are so and so. And if they're not fulfilled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guedesbrawl Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 45 minutes ago, Anacybele said: How the hell is it bad when we're talking about a super popular character? Because we alreayd have heavy hitters thanks to Marht and the Fates/Awakening crowd and even Lyn. FEw2 will have "You can play as Ike!" as part of its appeal. It's like people lack business sense or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 hours ago, guedesbrawl said: Because Ike being involved in the story is so much more hype than playing as him. It's a bad idea no matter how you look at it. I suppose I agree. He does deserve to be given full justice of a unique moveset and story involvement. Though the same can be said of Lyn. Perhaps she'll be involved in the sequel story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19177336292694629610174937 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I don't really get why they didn't add at least Ike. He is in smash after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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