Anyone else super bummed that Warriors doesn't have anyone from FE9 and 10?

[guedesbrawl]

4 hours ago, Hopeofdespair said:

I don't really get why they didn't add at least Ike. He is in smash after all.

To have someone that can carry the sequele on his own should FESwitch turn out to be as popular with us as Other M was for the metroid fanbase.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

43 minutes ago, guedesbrawl said:

To have someone that can carry the sequele on his own should FESwitch turn out to be as popular with us as Other M was for the metroid fanbase.

lol come on that comparison isn't fair

Metroid Other M is a million seller.

Despite being a totally serviceable game yet a poor representation of it's franchise - hold up I think the comparison to FEW is pretty good actually.

Anyway, I don't buy that Roy and Ike will serve as sequel bait, that's a poor plan. I love the games these two come from, but they're not commercially available on any current or previous gen nintendo system. So the "last two out of six characters from that 2014 Smash Bros game" isn't a big enough sell for the mainstream audience, even if us fans would love representation of their four associated games. I don't know how you sell a Fire Emblem Warriors sequel without giving it like, five years. But everybody on this board treats FEW2 like it's coming out late 2018 which is unfortunately plausible for a Warriors game. 

[guedesbrawl]

3 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

lol come on that comparison isn't fair

Metroid Other M is a million seller.

Despite being a totally serviceable game yet a poor representation of it's franchise - hold up I think the comparison to FEW is pretty good actually.

Anyway, I don't buy that Roy and Ike will serve as sequel bait, that's a poor plan. I love the games these two come from, but they're not commercially available on any current or previous gen nintendo system. So the "last two out of six characters from that 2014 Smash Bros game" isn't a big enough sell for the mainstream audience, even if us fans would love representation of their four associated games. I don't know how you sell a Fire Emblem Warriors sequel without giving it like, five years. But everybody on this board treats FEW2 like it's coming out late 2018 which is unfortunately plausible for a Warriors game. 

Sales =/= popularity. quality. Or profit, as a side note.

That's actually a pretty great plan. If they wasted all their heavy hitters, a warriors sequel would depend almost entirely on the new games to shine. Look at Hyrule Warriors. Because that game wasted so many games into DLC content we now need to wait for at least one new Zelda to push the marketing along with Botw. One game alone doesn't do much. And if that game fails, it does NOTHING.

Ike and Roy don't bring profit for fire emblem but they can bait the wider audience that's only familiar with these people through Smash. Like, don't act like Smash isn't bigger than FE or that the bulk of the popularity of any give FE rep bar Lucina the Waifu isn't because of Smash.

You said it yourself, warriors 2 coming soon is rather plausible. Spring 2019 or something I hope.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

28 minutes ago, guedesbrawl said:

Sales =/= popularity. quality. Or profit, as a side note.

Of course, my joke was predicated on the notion that when I say "that comparison isn't fair" you'd think I meant it was unfair to Other M. Then I make my left turn. Other M is also low key a good game, just a poor Metroid game.

So I agree with Smash's popularity, but we're talking about just two of its 58 characters here. One of whom is DLC. If just two smash characters were enough to turn heads, then why did the other four fail to grab their attention the first time? That's why I think an immediate sequel relying on Roy, Ike, and FE Switch is a poorly conceived plan for headlighting the sequel. Even if FE Switch is released in 2018 to great commercial success. 

A crossover between Fire Emblem and Warriors is still a dynamite idea at the end of the day. I just really wish KT allowed these sorts of games some time to cook.

[guedesbrawl]

6 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Of course, my joke was predicated on the notion that when I say "that comparison isn't fair" you'd think I meant it was unfair to Other M. Then I make my left turn. Other M is also low key a good game, just a poor Metroid game.

So I agree with Smash's popularity, but we're talking about just two of its 58 characters here. One of whom is DLC. If just two smash characters were enough to turn heads, then why did the other four fail to grab their attention the first time? That's why I think an immediate sequel relying on Roy, Ike, and FE Switch is a poorly conceived plan for headlighting the sequel. Even if FE Switch is released in 2018 to great commercial success. 

A crossover between Fire Emblem and Warriors is still a dynamite idea at the end of the day. I just really wish KT allowed these sorts of games some time to cook.

Because like with in Smash our fanbase is a fragmented mess and they ended up catering to one branch only.

The biggest branch, sure. But only one.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 minute ago, guedesbrawl said:

Because like with in Smash our fanbase is a fragmented mess and they ended up catering to one branch only.

The biggest branch, sure. But only one.

You know what, the fan backlash was pretty damning, I'll give you that. Look at any pre-release youtube video about FE Warriors, and the top comments are loaded with snarky quips about interview quotes or how only two games are being represented. The individual comments are just individual disgruntled fans, but the casual observer that otherwise wouldn't care loves a good drama, so they're in on the hate and start regurgitating these things they've read as fact. I don't blame these people either since FE Warriors is such a poor representation of the whole franchise. Given how much backlash the game got, I again have to ask why KT would want to jump right back into the fray for a sequel. Making FEW2 at this point can't possibly be as difficult as selling FEW2.

[Hardin]

2 hours ago, guedesbrawl said:

To have someone that can carry the sequele on his own should FESwitch turn out to be as popular with us as Other M was for the metroid fanbase.

If FE Switch bombs, there won't be a FEW2. They're not going to sell a game using a decade old game which bombed when it released as the hook. 

[CmdrQuartz]

Really it makes me wish this game could be on Steam with workshop support. There's too many characters, and too many of those aren't MY favorites but are for the "world", so I know I'll never get to play as them.

[Arthur97]

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

lol come on that comparison isn't fair

Metroid Other M is a million seller.

Despite being a totally serviceable game yet a poor representation of it's franchise - hold up I think the comparison to FEW is pretty good actually.

Anyway, I don't buy that Roy and Ike will serve as sequel bait, that's a poor plan. I love the games these two come from, but they're not commercially available on any current or previous gen nintendo system. So the "last two out of six characters from that 2014 Smash Bros game" isn't a big enough sell for the mainstream audience, even if us fans would love representation of their four associated games. I don't know how you sell a Fire Emblem Warriors sequel without giving it like, five years. But everybody on this board treats FEW2 like it's coming out late 2018 which is unfortunately plausible for a Warriors game. 

Actually, Other M is probably a better representation of what Metroid is than the Prime series.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

49 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Actually, Other M is probably a better representation of what Metroid is than the Prime series.

So I don't agree with you because Other M is not an exploration driven adventure game. It's a linear action title that actively gates you from exploring other areas of the game world, even ones you've previously accessed, while constantly pointing on your map where to go in order to progress. Even the hidden items get highlighted on your map after defeating all the enemies in a room. The only other Metroid games you can say are sort of linear action titles Prime 3 and Fusion. Prime 1, on the other hand is a faithful interpretation of "what if Super, but in 3D". It seems like series director Sakamoto is to blame for wanting to innovate with Fusion and Other M. While Prime 3 I understand was heavily guided by Nintendo's interests and internal staff due to its status as their only exclusive wii launch title that isn't the pack-in Wii Sports.

I think Other M, Fusion, and Prime 3 are all decent games in their own right, but they fail to represent their franchise by choosing different genres and level design. In other words: Good game, bad Metroid game. 

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, Glennstavos said:

So I don't agree with you because Other M is not an exploration driven adventure game. It's a linear action title that actively gates you from exploring other areas of the game world, even ones you've previously accessed, while constantly pointing on your map where to go in order to progress. Even the hidden items get highlighted on your map after defeating all the enemies in a room. The only other Metroid games you can say are sort of linear action titles Prime 3 and Fusion. Prime 1, on the other hand is a faithful interpretation of "what if Super, but in 3D". It seems like series director Sakamoto is to blame for wanting to innovate with Fusion and Other M. While Prime 3 I understand was heavily guided by Nintendo's interests and internal staff due to its status as their only exclusive wii launch title that isn't the pack-in Wii Sports.

I think Other M, Fusion, and Prime 3 are all decent games in their own right, but they fail to represent their franchise by choosing different genres and level design. In other words: Good game, bad Metroid game. 

Prime 1 and 2 (with horrendous amounts of backtracking that got old real fast) both told you where to go. That's just what Metroid does now with a minor exception in Samus Returns, but it still guides along the way it wants you to. Though I say Prime isn't real Metroid because it doesn't play like one. It's an FPS, not an action game.

[Florete]

8 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I think Other M, Fusion, and Prime 3 are all decent games in their own right, but they fail to represent their franchise by choosing different genres and level design. In other words: Good game, bad Metroid game. 

Prime 3 and Fusion do not deserve to be mixed in with Other M. They are much better games (Metroid or otherwise) than that.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Prime 1 and 2 (with horrendous amounts of backtracking that got old real fast) both told you where to go. That's just what Metroid does now with a minor exception in Samus Returns, but it still guides along the way it wants you to. Though I say Prime isn't real Metroid because it doesn't play like one. It's an FPS, not an action game.

Prime 1 and 2 only tell you where to go with the hints system. A hint appears if you're exploring the wrong area for a set amount of time. Like half an hour of game time, it's totally unreliable. And all the hints do is point out a room you need to enter for a new ability, not the room that that's hiding the means by which you get to the hinted room. As long as you look at your map constantly for doors you can open with recently acquired abilities, Prime 1 and 2 can be beaten without a guide, at least until you're hunting for Artifacts/Temple Keys. The late portion of those two games are kind of unreasonable.

As for the FPS thing, I don't consider that a huge departure, it's just a method of 2D series transition to 3D. Now Samus can travel in more than four cardinal directions. What you're actually doing in Prime is still the same as what you're doing in Super. Look at Zelda. Ocarina of Time didn't take a different genre when they decided to put the camera behind Link rather than above. Giving Link the ability to move the camera and survey his environment in first person was just how they wanted players to play their 3D game.

8 minutes ago, Florete said:

Prime 3 and Fusion do not deserve to be mixed in with Other M. They are much better games (Metroid or otherwise) than that.

And I respect your opinion, bud.

[Arthur97]

29 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Prime 1 and 2 only tell you where to go with the hints system. A hint appears if you're exploring the wrong area for a set amount of time. Like half an hour of game time, it's totally unreliable. And all the hints do is point out a room you need to enter for a new ability, not the room that that's hiding the means by which you get to the hinted room. As long as you look at your map constantly for doors you can open with recently acquired abilities, Prime 1 and 2 can be beaten without a guide, at least until you're hunting for Artifacts/Temple Keys. The late portion of those two games are kind of unreasonable.

As for the FPS thing, I don't consider that a huge departure, it's just a method of 2D series transition to 3D. Now Samus can travel in more than four cardinal directions. What you're actually doing in Prime is still the same as what you're doing in Super. Look at Zelda. Ocarina of Time didn't take a different genre when they decided to put the camera behind Link rather than above. Giving Link the ability to move the camera and survey his environment in first person was just how they wanted players to play their 3D game.

And I respect your opinion, bud.

Prime isn't really a good transition though. Movement is restricted and action suffers as a result. When they tried to incorporate things like the Screw Attack, it ended up clunky and even frustrating to begin with. It's really not much like Super and it really is a different genre unlike Zelda. I still maintain that Prime is a spinoff which people ironically confuse for the real thing.Other M is much closer in gameplay to the classics and I would say is what a 3D Metroid should be. Just axe the first person mode.  

[guedesbrawl]

Both Prime and Super are action-adventure games.

Prime just happens to have FPS woven in as a second genre. But the core of metroid is still there with the only major change is that, if you want, you can know where to go.

[guedesbrawl]

11 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

You know what, the fan backlash was pretty damning, I'll give you that. Look at any pre-release youtube video about FE Warriors, and the top comments are loaded with snarky quips about interview quotes or how only two games are being represented. The individual comments are just individual disgruntled fans, but the casual observer that otherwise wouldn't care loves a good drama, so they're in on the hate and start regurgitating these things they've read as fact. I don't blame these people either since FE Warriors is such a poor representation of the whole franchise. Given how much backlash the game got, I again have to ask why KT would want to jump right back into the fray for a sequel. Making FEW2 at this point can't possibly be as difficult as selling FEW2.

FEW1 sold well enough that KT were happy with it.

And you are fooling yourself if you think the fan backlash didn't come from a minority. Awakening and Fates still sold well enough.

Without needing to build the systems from the ground up again, like in 1, 2 should be much, much easier to make.

It's easy money. There is no logical reason NOT to do a sequel, even if it will be not as soon as people hope.

[Fabulously Olivier]

At the end of the day, this is perhaps the first game in which i desire as much dlc as possible.

[Fabulously Olivier]

19 hours ago, guedesbrawl said:

To have someone that can carry the sequele on his own should FESwitch turn out to be as popular with us as Other M was for the metroid fanbase.

I'm not sure if such a unanimous hatred is even possible. Fire Emblem has one of the most divisive communities I have ever seen (and has something of a reputation for being divisive in the outside gaming community).

The series itself creates such a community. No two games are mechanically consistent enough for Fire Emblem to have a "core" identity. Innovation is the lifeblood of this series.

And try as some of us might, we can't truly form a consensus on any one game being bad. Some of them (like Gaiden) are more niche than others, but all of them have plenty of fans.

Hell, I'd argue that there are no bad FE games (*caugh except for Shadow Dragon caugh*).